Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 I think the best way to help you with this is to send you to www.allthingsmale.com and for you to read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are tests and why. Phil tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:39:04 -0000, you wrote: >Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the >condition. > >Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed >puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what >is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd >plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results > >I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have >changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff >to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. > >Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about >testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels >you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. > >Thanks > >Timbo If you go to the group page you'll see this group has a file and links section. You want to read the AACE guidelines (American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists) and a Best Practices Manual posted in the files section. That's a good starting point. Not mentioned in these is that testosterone converts to estradiol, also called E2, a form of estrogen. When you get shots or other T treatment this E2 level can increase to cause problems. To keep E2 down some of us take more frequent lower doses of T (as higher doses lead to more conversion in a sort of spill over effect), some of us take a prescription medicine called arimidex that blocks this conversion. It is very effective but difficult to get right. It can drop E2 levels too low which has its own set of problems which include impotence and loss of libido. Others use a dietary supplement called DIMM. It is also somewhat hard to balance and manage and doesn't seem to work for a significant number of people. You will see endless discussion here about managing E2. ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Hey Timbo - welcome to the group Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2. Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels with E2 balancing. Arkansas tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:49:32 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. A minor typo - I'm sure he meant you CAN go too low. WHich makes sense of the rest of the sentence. ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Thankyou for the welcome and the information - this really gives me something to work with - never had any test results explained OR that HRT does not affect genital sizing.Have an option on testicular implants - what do you think? In Uk the shots have to be done by the nurse at my doctors - sustanon 250 sure gave a huge surge but then tailed right off. start of a long process I feel Thanks again Tim Leicester, England Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote: Hey Timbo - welcome to the group Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2. Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels with E2 balancing. Arkansas tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Thanks, as I am UK based -not sure what happens here compared to US - start of a long process I feel. This sure does not get the same profile as female infertility Tim Leicester, England etrogrouch@... wrote: On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:39:04 -0000, you wrote: >Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the >condition. > >Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed >puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what >is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd >plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results > >I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have >changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff >to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. > >Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about >testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels >you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. > >Thanks > >Timbo If you go to the group page you'll see this group has a file and links section. You want to read the AACE guidelines (American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists) and a Best Practices Manual posted in the files section. That's a good starting point. Not mentioned in these is that testosterone converts to estradiol, also called E2, a form of estrogen. When you get shots or other T treatment this E2 level can increase to cause problems. To keep E2 down some of us take more frequent lower doses of T (as higher doses lead to more conversion in a sort of spill over effect), some of us take a prescription medicine called arimidex that blocks this conversion. It is very effective but difficult to get right. It can drop E2 levels too low which has its own set of problems which include impotence and loss of libido. Others use a dietary supplement called DIMM. It is also somewhat hard to balance and manage and doesn't seem to work for a significant number of people. You will see endless discussion here about managing E2. ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence --------------------------------- All new " The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. " - PC Magazine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 thanks Phil - good starting point - sure is a lot to take in at the moment Tim philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: I think the best way to help you with this is to send you to www.allthingsmale.com and for you to read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are tests and why. Phil tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Tim - I am against implants unless your testicles are required to be removed due to disease (cancer). As we make headway with this disease (hypogonadism) we are finding that even those of us that are considered primary, can still bring the ole boys back to life under certain circumstances (like HCG). Implants are permanent and there is no going back. I have to believe that the body functions better when all things are functioning. Just my opinion. For those who have to face removal - I would probably get the implants. There are several documents in the file section that you might want to copy and take to your appointment and discuss the weekly shots. Arkansas tim barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote: Thankyou for the welcome and the information - this really gives me something to work with - never had any test results explained OR that HRT does not affect genital sizing.Have an option on testicular implants - what do you think? In Uk the shots have to be done by the nurse at my doctors - sustanon 250 sure gave a huge surge but then tailed right off. start of a long process I feel Thanks again Tim Leicester, England Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote: Hey Timbo - welcome to the group Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2. Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels with E2 balancing. Arkansas tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:29:12 +0100 (BST), you wrote: >te: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:29:12 +0100 (BST) > >Thankyou for the welcome and the information - this really gives me something to work with - never had any test results explained OR that HRT does not affect genital sizing.Have an option on testicular implants - what do you think? > > In Uk the shots have to be done by the nurse at my doctors - sustanon 250 sure gave a huge surge but then tailed right off. > > start of a long process I feel > > Thanks again > > Tim > Leicester, England Substanton, most people here agree, is an inferior treatment. We only hear about it being used in the UK. Testosterone ethanate or cypionate are far more effective and cheaper. I think the substanton tries to make for a longer time release than the two oil based methods above. But it appears to do this very poorly. and generally runs out resulting in poor levels before the next dose. Most of us get a shot a week for 100mg of T. Others try to split that and give themselves two shots a week. ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:44:05 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Tim - I am against implants unless your testicles are required to be removed due to disease (cancer). As we make headway with this disease (hypogonadism) we are finding that even those of us that are considered primary, can still bring the ole boys back to life under certain circumstances (like HCG). Implants are permanent and there is no going back. I have to believe that the body functions better when all things are functioning. Just my opinion. For those who have to face removal - I would probably get the implants. There are several documents in the file section that you might want to copy and take to your appointment and discuss the weekly shots. > > Arkansas I agree. But if you're primary those considerations are not there. also if you're single and in the " market place " I think you'd get a bit more confidence from full size. Lord knows the many of single guys have enough issues coming from low T and " dating " . I just wonder if you can get them in brass. ;-> ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Brass balls huh - watch out for cold weather. retrogrouch@... wrote: On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:44:05 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Tim - I am against implants unless your testicles are required to be removed due to disease (cancer). As we make headway with this disease (hypogonadism) we are finding that even those of us that are considered primary, can still bring the ole boys back to life under certain circumstances (like HCG). Implants are permanent and there is no going back. I have to believe that the body functions better when all things are functioning. Just my opinion. For those who have to face removal - I would probably get the implants. There are several documents in the file section that you might want to copy and take to your appointment and discuss the weekly shots. > > Arkansas I agree. But if you're primary those considerations are not there. also if you're single and in the " market place " I think you'd get a bit more confidence from full size. Lord knows the many of single guys have enough issues coming from low T and " dating " . I just wonder if you can get them in brass. ;-> ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence --------------------------------- All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Brass balls huh - watch out for cold weather. Imagine the clacking! > > >retrogrouch@... wrote: > On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:44:05 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >>Tim - I am against implants unless your testicles are required to be removed due to disease (cancer). As we make headway with this disease (hypogonadism) we are finding that even those of us that are considered primary, can still bring the ole boys back to life under certain circumstances (like HCG). Implants are permanent and there is no going back. I have to believe that the body functions better when all things are functioning. Just my opinion. For those who have to face removal - I would probably get the implants. There are several documents in the file section that you might want to copy and take to your appointment and discuss the weekly shots. >> >> Arkansas > >I agree. But if you're primary those considerations are not there. >also if you're single and in the " market place " I think you'd get a >bit more confidence from full size. Lord knows the many of single >guys have enough issues coming from low T and " dating " . > >I just wonder if you can get them in brass. ;-> > >________________ >I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. >Terence > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 That is why the Orang Utang is so called Nick O'Hara Author: The Testosterone Deficiency Centre www.androids.org.uk Associate Editor The Testicular Cancer Resource Centre www.acor.org/tcrc Re: Endo visit On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Brass balls huh - watch out for cold weather. Imagine the clacking! > > >retrogrouch@... wrote: > On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:44:05 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >>Tim - I am against implants unless your testicles are required to be removed due to disease (cancer). As we make headway with this disease (hypogonadism) we are finding that even those of us that are considered primary, can still bring the ole boys back to life under certain circumstances (like HCG). Implants are permanent and there is no going back. I have to believe that the body functions better when all things are functioning. Just my opinion. For those who have to face removal - I would probably get the implants. There are several documents in the file section that you might want to copy and take to your appointment and discuss the weekly shots. >> >> Arkansas > >I agree. But if you're primary those considerations are not there. >also if you're single and in the " market place " I think you'd get a bit >more confidence from full size. Lord knows the many of single guys have >enough issues coming from low T and " dating " . > >I just wonder if you can get them in brass. ;-> > >________________ >I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. >Terence > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise? thanks Tim Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote: Hey Timbo - welcome to the group Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2. Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels with E2 balancing. Arkansas tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 hi tim can you post the labs ranges please it helps my lab range is 6-27 nmo/l though some in uk are 10.5 nmo/l and above as normal but both are wrong NHS lab ranges are totally wrong a guys of 40 ie my age testosteron should be around 23 nmo/l to be healthy it should be in top two thirds so at 15/16 nmo/l mine would be better. 2 yrs ago 10.5 nmol the range then was 10.4 and above normal so yes i was told normal WRONG 8 months ago 7.6 nmo/l range 6-27 then and so again i was normal WRONG 4 months ago 4.6 nmo/l range 6-27 first and only time actually classed as low,CORRECT but my doc said its first time its been low and is only slighlty lower than normal range WRONG 6 weeks ago 7.4 nmol range 6-27 sao again classed as normal accrroding to NHS again WRONG but at least i did get the partial androgen deficieny diagnosis though with testosterone at 7.4 nmol 6-27 lh 2 iul 1-9 fsh 3 iul 1-19 to me and if NHS had any decent endos wouold of been classed hypogonadism seciondary ok each figure is not pathologically low but low enough to add serious issues to my already serious adhd/aspergers/dyspraxia issues but sadly my local nhs cant give me a proepr diagnosis just the andropause which will siuffice for now as i am concentrating on my ritalin for adhd and not testosterone replacement,which as said before NHS endo was going to give trt only and not anythiong else regarding male or female hormones so thats no good. so your 10 nmo/l is not normal at all its just to save money in the NHS to dismiss your needs regards paul Re: Endo visit Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise? thanks Tim Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany (DOT) com> wrote: Hey Timbo - welcome to the group Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2. Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels with E2 balancing. Arkansas tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@ .co. uk> wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo ------------ --------- --------- --- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 the problem is nd i dont think guys in other countries understand it is we in uk get whatever NHS gives us,we dont get to ask " can i have E2 checked " or oeven other more basic things,if doc is enlgihtend they may do it,anytthingf we suggest normally the doc or endo looks in amazment you have dared to ask him or her anything. in both treatments and tests its same if we use NHS which unless one can afford private attention we mostly use,its hobsions choice. i am still annoyed that the lab did not do my free testosterone even though my own doctor asked for it!! and even then did not actually tell anyone they had not done it,it took a lot of checking by doc and staff to find out they had not done it,how dificlut is it to put on the retuned results " free testosterone asked and not done as we dont do this test " i mean thats not hard is it,would of at least saved a lot of time and worry. last time i asked for E2 etc i was luaghed at saying " thats sa female issue nothing to do with you " ok not my ownd doc but the practive nurse,and now blood tests asked for by patients and not by doctor one has to pay for at my local practice. NHS look for cheaperst options each time,even if in long run with people not worrking and functioning more money is lost as long as NHS can find cheapest injections or whatever then they are satisfied while the public are not in many cases less you are lucky to have a cancer then all stops are pulled out i would like t opay private but even there one stilll needs referals and if ones gp does not agree then thats it and as we cant all afford to pay we stixk with what NHS offers regards paul Re: Endo visit Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise? thanks Tim Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany (DOT) com> wrote: Hey Timbo - welcome to the group Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2. Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels with E2 balancing. Arkansas tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@ .co. uk> wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo ------------ --------- --------- --- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 couldnt agree more - NHS go through the motions - they do not like you to ask questions - will have to see what my letter brings - at least I am sleeping better now! regards tim paul wey <promachief@...> wrote: the problem is nd i dont think guys in other countries understand it is we in uk get whatever NHS gives us,we dont get to ask " can i have E2 checked " or oeven other more basic things,if doc is enlgihtend they may do it,anytthingf we suggest normally the doc or endo looks in amazment you have dared to ask him or her anything. in both treatments and tests its same if we use NHS which unless one can afford private attention we mostly use,its hobsions choice. i am still annoyed that the lab did not do my free testosterone even though my own doctor asked for it!! and even then did not actually tell anyone they had not done it,it took a lot of checking by doc and staff to find out they had not done it,how dificlut is it to put on the retuned results " free testosterone asked and not done as we dont do this test " i mean thats not hard is it,would of at least saved a lot of time and worry. last time i asked for E2 etc i was luaghed at saying " thats sa female issue nothing to do with you " ok not my ownd doc but the practive nurse,and now blood tests asked for by patients and not by doctor one has to pay for at my local practice. NHS look for cheaperst options each time,even if in long run with people not worrking and functioning more money is lost as long as NHS can find cheapest injections or whatever then they are satisfied while the public are not in many cases less you are lucky to have a cancer then all stops are pulled out i would like t opay private but even there one stilll needs referals and if ones gp does not agree then thats it and as we cant all afford to pay we stixk with what NHS offers regards paul Re: Endo visit Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise? thanks Tim Dan Meatheany wrote: Hey Timbo - welcome to the group Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2. Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels with E2 balancing. Arkansas tim_barnacle wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo ------------ --------- --------- --- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 paul, that is all the information I have been given - says it all really ! tim paul wey <promachief@...> wrote: hi tim can you post the labs ranges please it helps my lab range is 6-27 nmo/l though some in uk are 10.5 nmo/l and above as normal but both are wrong NHS lab ranges are totally wrong a guys of 40 ie my age testosteron should be around 23 nmo/l to be healthy it should be in top two thirds so at 15/16 nmo/l mine would be better. 2 yrs ago 10.5 nmol the range then was 10.4 and above normal so yes i was told normal WRONG 8 months ago 7.6 nmo/l range 6-27 then and so again i was normal WRONG 4 months ago 4.6 nmo/l range 6-27 first and only time actually classed as low,CORRECT but my doc said its first time its been low and is only slighlty lower than normal range WRONG 6 weeks ago 7.4 nmol range 6-27 sao again classed as normal accrroding to NHS again WRONG but at least i did get the partial androgen deficieny diagnosis though with testosterone at 7.4 nmol 6-27 lh 2 iul 1-9 fsh 3 iul 1-19 to me and if NHS had any decent endos wouold of been classed hypogonadism seciondary ok each figure is not pathologically low but low enough to add serious issues to my already serious adhd/aspergers/dyspraxia issues but sadly my local nhs cant give me a proepr diagnosis just the andropause which will siuffice for now as i am concentrating on my ritalin for adhd and not testosterone replacement,which as said before NHS endo was going to give trt only and not anythiong else regarding male or female hormones so thats no good. so your 10 nmo/l is not normal at all its just to save money in the NHS to dismiss your needs regards paul Re: Endo visit Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise? thanks Tim Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany (DOT) com> wrote: Hey Timbo - welcome to the group Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2. Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels with E2 balancing. Arkansas tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@ .co. uk> wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo ------------ --------- --------- --- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 ok on that as others have suggested some endos believe 11.3 nmo/l or below is indicitaive of hypogonadsim secondary ,but in NHS i think thats a rarity and we jusat get told its normal range regards paul Re: Endo visit Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise? thanks Tim Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@ . com> wrote: Hey Timbo - welcome to the group Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2. Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels with E2 balancing. Arkansas tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@ .co. uk> wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo ------------ --------- --------- --- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 HI paul have just had a response from the endo - not prepared to test for Estrogen, and increase the testogel to two a day - not very helpful really. Might try my old one! tim paul wey <promachief@...> wrote: ok on that as others have suggested some endos believe 11.3 nmo/l or below is indicitaive of hypogonadsim secondary ,but in NHS i think thats a rarity and we jusat get told its normal range regards paul Re: Endo visit Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise? thanks Tim Dan Meatheany wrote: Hey Timbo - welcome to the group Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2. Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels with E2 balancing. Arkansas tim_barnacle wrote: Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the condition. Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday. Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important. Thanks Timbo ------------ --------- --------- --- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 I know that this is not helpful at all but you said I think the thing is you pin all your hopes on an appointment you have been waiting months for and then come away feeling disheartened or having forgotten to say something., and then you have months to wait before trying again. I SAY AMEN TO THAT!!! You feel like you are knocking your head against a brick wall, that brick wall is the NHS protocol on thyroid treatment grrr. I think it is marvellous that you even managed to get a trial of T3, no chance of that in my area at all. Sincerely hope you feel better soon. Lotsa luv Dawnx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 HI Lizzie First write down what symptoms you have, what have gone, what new ones have come up. Write down your temperatures on the same list, and also any questions that you need to Ask Dr B. If you are feeling a little a little "jittery" this could be because you are taking too much T3 - or you have one of the following, that is stopping your thyroid hormone replacement from working properly. (1) Low ferritin (2) low adrenal reserve (3) Candida Albicans (4) mercury poisoning (5) not on the correct dose of t4/T3 combination. You might need to stop taking T4 because you could have a conversion block and go onto T3 only. Dr B will hopefully, be able to sort this. However, do make sure you write everything down because as you say, there is nothing worse than having your consultation, getting nowhere and then remembering you didn't ask this or that. Don't ask for Armour at this particular time, give this medication time to work. Quite often we need to titrate the dosage until we get what our body requires, so be patient a little longer. Also remember not to take your thyroid hormone replacement for at least 24 hours. Let us know how you get on and good luck Lizzie. luv - Sheila What a long rambling message Im sorry if I sound really sorry formyself I know there are some of you out there really suffering.I think the thing is you pin all your hopes on an appointment youhave been waiting months for and then come away feeling disheartenedor having forgotten to say something., and then you have months towait before trying again.If anyone can help I would welcome your advice.Love Lizzie No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1389 - Release Date: 21/04/2008 08:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 Hi Sheila Thankyou for your advice. I will try writing everything down. Do you think he will be interested in the temperatures or is this more of an adrenal thing? My Ferritin is coming up and at the last test was 46 4 weeks ago,also I think my adrenals have improved due to my blood pressure results, I dont think I have candida but do have amalgum fillings. Love Lizzie > First write down what symptoms you have, what have gone, what new ones have come up. Write down your temperatures on the same list, and also any questions that you need to Ask Dr B. If you are feeling a little a little " jittery " this could be because you are taking too much T3 - or you have one of the following, that is stopping your thyroid hormone replacement from working properly. (1) Low ferritin (2) low adrenal reserve (3) Candida Albicans (4) mercury poisoning (5) not on the correct dose of t4/T3 combination. You might need to stop taking T4 because you could have a conversion block and go onto T3 only. Dr B will hopefully, be able to sort this. However, do make sure you write everything down because as you say, there is nothing worse than having your consultation, getting nowhere and then remembering you didn't ask this or that. Don't ask for Armour at this particular time, give this medication time to work. Quite often we need to titrate the dosage until we get what our body requires, so be patient a little longer. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2008 Report Share Posted April 24, 2008 HI Lizzie Temperature is both adrenal and thyroid. When you get on the right thyroid hormone and dose, your temperature should rise. Your temperature shows you are not yet at your optimal dose, but whether this has to be L-thyroxine, Liothyronine or Armour, we will have to wait and see. Luv - Sheila Hi SheilaThankyou for your advice. I will try writing everything down. Do youthink he will be interested in the temperatures or is this more of anadrenal thing? My Ferritin is coming up and at the last test was 46 4weeks ago,also I think my adrenals have improved due to my bloodpressure results, I dont think I have candida but do have amalgumfillings.Love Lizzie .. No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1389 - Release Date: 21/04/2008 08:34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2008 Report Share Posted April 25, 2008 Hi sheila I hope you get this before I leave for my apptmnt. I checked my basal temp this morning and it was 37.1 and yesterday 36.9. This was day 20 and 21 of my cycle. do you think this means that I could have reached my optimal dose. Not sure whether to mention these today as I still have some symptoms, namely joint pains, energy slumps and thigh cramps. Help Love Lizzie > Temperature is both adrenal and thyroid. When you get on the right thyroid hormone and dose, your temperature should rise. Your temperature shows you are not yet at your optimal dose, but whether this has to be L-thyroxine, Liothyronine or Armour, we will have to wait and see. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1389 - Release Date: 21/04/2008 08:34 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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