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I think the best way to help you with this is to send you to

www.allthingsmale.com and for you to read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are

tests and why.

Phil

tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

---------------------------------

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countries) for 2¢/min or less.

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On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:39:04 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

>condition.

>

>Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

>puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

>is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

>plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

>

>I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

>changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

>to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

>

>Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

>testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

>you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

>

>Thanks

>

>Timbo

If you go to the group page you'll see this group has a file and

links section. You want to read the AACE guidelines (American

Association of Clinical Endocrinologists) and a Best Practices Manual

posted in the files section. That's a good starting point.

Not mentioned in these is that testosterone converts to estradiol,

also called E2, a form of estrogen. When you get shots or other T

treatment this E2 level can increase to cause problems. To keep E2

down some of us take more frequent lower doses of T (as higher doses

lead to more conversion in a sort of spill over effect), some of us

take a prescription medicine called arimidex that blocks this

conversion. It is very effective but difficult to get right. It can

drop E2 levels too low which has its own set of problems which include

impotence and loss of libido. Others use a dietary supplement called

DIMM. It is also somewhat hard to balance and manage and doesn't seem

to work for a significant number of people.

You will see endless discussion here about managing E2.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

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Hey Timbo - welcome to the group

Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses

more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even

going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which

is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees

large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert

the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets

really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control

this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2.

Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I

would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels

with E2 balancing.

Arkansas

tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

---------------------------------

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On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:49:32 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act.

A minor typo - I'm sure he meant you CAN go too low. WHich makes sense

of the rest of the sentence.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

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Thankyou for the welcome and the information - this really gives me something to

work with - never had any test results explained OR that HRT does not affect

genital sizing.Have an option on testicular implants - what do you think?

In Uk the shots have to be done by the nurse at my doctors - sustanon 250 sure

gave a huge surge but then tailed right off.

start of a long process I feel

Thanks again

Tim

Leicester, England

Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote:

Hey Timbo - welcome to the group

Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses

more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even

going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which

is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees

large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert

the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets

really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control

this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2.

Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I

would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels

with E2 balancing.

Arkansas

tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

---------------------------------

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Thanks, as I am UK based -not sure what happens here compared to US - start of a

long process I feel. This sure does not get the same profile as female

infertility

Tim

Leicester, England

etrogrouch@... wrote:

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:39:04 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

>condition.

>

>Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

>puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

>is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

>plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

>

>I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

>changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

>to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

>

>Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

>testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

>you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

>

>Thanks

>

>Timbo

If you go to the group page you'll see this group has a file and

links section. You want to read the AACE guidelines (American

Association of Clinical Endocrinologists) and a Best Practices Manual

posted in the files section. That's a good starting point.

Not mentioned in these is that testosterone converts to estradiol,

also called E2, a form of estrogen. When you get shots or other T

treatment this E2 level can increase to cause problems. To keep E2

down some of us take more frequent lower doses of T (as higher doses

lead to more conversion in a sort of spill over effect), some of us

take a prescription medicine called arimidex that blocks this

conversion. It is very effective but difficult to get right. It can

drop E2 levels too low which has its own set of problems which include

impotence and loss of libido. Others use a dietary supplement called

DIMM. It is also somewhat hard to balance and manage and doesn't seem

to work for a significant number of people.

You will see endless discussion here about managing E2.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

---------------------------------

All new " The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease

of use. " - PC Magazine

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thanks Phil - good starting point - sure is a lot to take in at the moment

Tim

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

I think the best way to help you with this is to send you to

www.allthingsmale.com and for you to read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are

tests and why.

Phil

tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

---------------------------------

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

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Tim - I am against implants unless your testicles are required to be removed due

to disease (cancer). As we make headway with this disease (hypogonadism) we are

finding that even those of us that are considered primary, can still bring the

ole boys back to life under certain circumstances (like HCG). Implants are

permanent and there is no going back. I have to believe that the body functions

better when all things are functioning. Just my opinion. For those who have to

face removal - I would probably get the implants. There are several documents in

the file section that you might want to copy and take to your appointment and

discuss the weekly shots.

Arkansas

tim barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote:

Thankyou for the welcome and the information - this really gives me

something to work with - never had any test results explained OR that HRT does

not affect genital sizing.Have an option on testicular implants - what do you

think?

In Uk the shots have to be done by the nurse at my doctors - sustanon 250 sure

gave a huge surge but then tailed right off.

start of a long process I feel

Thanks again

Tim

Leicester, England

Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote:

Hey Timbo - welcome to the group

Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses

more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even

going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which

is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees

large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert

the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets

really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control

this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2.

Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I

would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels

with E2 balancing.

Arkansas

tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

---------------------------------

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On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:29:12 +0100 (BST), you wrote:

>te: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:29:12 +0100 (BST)

>

>Thankyou for the welcome and the information - this really gives me something

to work with - never had any test results explained OR that HRT does not affect

genital sizing.Have an option on testicular implants - what do you think?

>

> In Uk the shots have to be done by the nurse at my doctors - sustanon 250

sure gave a huge surge but then tailed right off.

>

> start of a long process I feel

>

> Thanks again

>

> Tim

> Leicester, England

Substanton, most people here agree, is an inferior treatment. We only

hear about it being used in the UK. Testosterone ethanate or cypionate

are far more effective and cheaper. I think the substanton tries to

make for a longer time release than the two oil based methods above.

But it appears to do this very poorly. and generally runs out

resulting in poor levels before the next dose.

Most of us get a shot a week for 100mg of T. Others try to split that

and give themselves two shots a week.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

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On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:44:05 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Tim - I am against implants unless your testicles are required to be removed

due to disease (cancer). As we make headway with this disease (hypogonadism) we

are finding that even those of us that are considered primary, can still bring

the ole boys back to life under certain circumstances (like HCG). Implants are

permanent and there is no going back. I have to believe that the body functions

better when all things are functioning. Just my opinion. For those who have to

face removal - I would probably get the implants. There are several documents in

the file section that you might want to copy and take to your appointment and

discuss the weekly shots.

>

> Arkansas

I agree. But if you're primary those considerations are not there.

also if you're single and in the " market place " I think you'd get a

bit more confidence from full size. Lord knows the many of single

guys have enough issues coming from low T and " dating " .

I just wonder if you can get them in brass. ;->

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

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Brass balls huh - watch out for cold weather.

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:44:05 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Tim - I am against implants unless your testicles are required to be removed

due to disease (cancer). As we make headway with this disease (hypogonadism) we

are finding that even those of us that are considered primary, can still bring

the ole boys back to life under certain circumstances (like HCG). Implants are

permanent and there is no going back. I have to believe that the body functions

better when all things are functioning. Just my opinion. For those who have to

face removal - I would probably get the implants. There are several documents in

the file section that you might want to copy and take to your appointment and

discuss the weekly shots.

>

> Arkansas

I agree. But if you're primary those considerations are not there.

also if you're single and in the " market place " I think you'd get a

bit more confidence from full size. Lord knows the many of single

guys have enough issues coming from low T and " dating " .

I just wonder if you can get them in brass. ;->

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

---------------------------------

All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

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On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Brass balls huh - watch out for cold weather.

Imagine the clacking!

>

>

>retrogrouch@... wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:44:05 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>

>>Tim - I am against implants unless your testicles are required to be removed

due to disease (cancer). As we make headway with this disease (hypogonadism) we

are finding that even those of us that are considered primary, can still bring

the ole boys back to life under certain circumstances (like HCG). Implants are

permanent and there is no going back. I have to believe that the body functions

better when all things are functioning. Just my opinion. For those who have to

face removal - I would probably get the implants. There are several documents in

the file section that you might want to copy and take to your appointment and

discuss the weekly shots.

>>

>> Arkansas

>

>I agree. But if you're primary those considerations are not there.

>also if you're single and in the " market place " I think you'd get a

>bit more confidence from full size. Lord knows the many of single

>guys have enough issues coming from low T and " dating " .

>

>I just wonder if you can get them in brass. ;->

>

>________________

>I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

>Terence

>

>

>

>

>

>

>---------------------------------

> All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done

faster.

>

>

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That is why the Orang Utang is so called :)

Nick O'Hara

Author: The Testosterone Deficiency Centre

www.androids.org.uk

Associate Editor

The Testicular Cancer Resource Centre

www.acor.org/tcrc

Re: Endo visit

On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 05:41:46 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Brass balls huh - watch out for cold weather.

Imagine the clacking!

>

>

>retrogrouch@... wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:44:05 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>

>>Tim - I am against implants unless your testicles are required to be

removed due to disease (cancer). As we make headway with this disease

(hypogonadism) we are finding that even those of us that are considered

primary, can still bring the ole boys back to life under certain

circumstances (like HCG). Implants are permanent and there is no going back.

I have to believe that the body functions better when all things are

functioning. Just my opinion. For those who have to face removal - I would

probably get the implants. There are several documents in the file section

that you might want to copy and take to your appointment and discuss the

weekly shots.

>>

>> Arkansas

>

>I agree. But if you're primary those considerations are not there.

>also if you're single and in the " market place " I think you'd get a bit

>more confidence from full size. Lord knows the many of single guys have

>enough issues coming from low T and " dating " .

>

>I just wonder if you can get them in brass. ;->

>

>________________

>I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

>Terence

>

>

>

>

>

>

>---------------------------------

> All-new - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done

faster.

>

>

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  • 2 months later...

Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal

biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also

normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting

hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise?

thanks

Tim

Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote:

Hey Timbo - welcome to the group

Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses

more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even

going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which

is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees

large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert

the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets

really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control

this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2.

Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I

would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels

with E2 balancing.

Arkansas

tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@...> wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

---------------------------------

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

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hi tim can you post the labs ranges please it helps

my lab range is 6-27 nmo/l though some in uk are 10.5 nmo/l and above as normal

but both are wrong NHS lab ranges are totally wrong

a guys of 40 ie my age testosteron should be around 23 nmo/l to be healthy it

should be in top two thirds so at 15/16 nmo/l mine would be better.

2 yrs ago

10.5 nmol the range then was 10.4 and above normal so yes i was told normal

WRONG

8 months ago

7.6 nmo/l

range 6-27 then and so again i was normal WRONG

4 months ago

4.6 nmo/l range 6-27 first and only time actually classed as low,CORRECT but my

doc said its first time its been low and is only slighlty lower than normal

range WRONG

6 weeks ago

7.4 nmol range 6-27 sao again classed as normal accrroding to NHS again WRONG

but at least i did get the partial androgen deficieny diagnosis though with

testosterone at

7.4 nmol 6-27

lh 2 iul 1-9

fsh 3 iul 1-19

to me and if NHS had any decent endos wouold of been classed hypogonadism

seciondary

ok each figure is not pathologically low but low enough to add serious issues to

my already serious adhd/aspergers/dyspraxia issues but sadly my local nhs cant

give me a proepr diagnosis just the andropause which will siuffice for now as i

am concentrating on my ritalin for adhd and not testosterone replacement,which

as said before NHS endo was going to give trt only and not anythiong else

regarding male or female hormones so thats no good.

so your 10 nmo/l is not normal at all its just to save money in the NHS to

dismiss your needs

regards paul

Re: Endo visit

Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal

biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also

normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting

hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise?

thanks

Tim

Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany (DOT) com> wrote:

Hey Timbo - welcome to the group

Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses

more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even

going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which

is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees

large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert

the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets

really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control

this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2.

Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I

would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels

with E2 balancing.

Arkansas

tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@ .co. uk> wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

------------ --------- --------- ---

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

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the problem is nd i dont think guys in other countries understand it is we in uk

get whatever NHS gives us,we dont get to ask " can i have E2 checked " or oeven

other more basic things,if doc is enlgihtend they may do it,anytthingf we

suggest normally the doc or endo looks in amazment you have dared to ask him or

her anything.

in both treatments and tests its same if we use NHS which unless one can afford

private attention we mostly use,its hobsions choice.

i am still annoyed that the lab did not do my free testosterone even though my

own doctor asked for it!!

and even then did not actually tell anyone they had not done it,it took a lot of

checking by doc and staff to find out they had not done it,how dificlut is it to

put on the retuned results

" free testosterone asked and not done as we dont do this test "

i mean thats not hard is it,would of at least saved a lot of time and worry.

last time i asked for E2 etc i was luaghed at saying " thats sa female issue

nothing to do with you "

ok not my ownd doc but the practive nurse,and now blood tests asked for by

patients and not by doctor one has to pay for at my local practice.

NHS look for cheaperst options each time,even if in long run with people not

worrking and functioning more money is lost as long as NHS can find cheapest

injections or whatever then they are satisfied while the public are not in many

cases

less you are lucky to have a cancer then all stops are pulled out

i would like t opay private but even there one stilll needs referals and if ones

gp does not agree then thats it and as we cant all afford to pay we stixk with

what NHS offers

regards paul

Re: Endo visit

Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal

biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also

normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting

hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise?

thanks

Tim

Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany (DOT) com> wrote:

Hey Timbo - welcome to the group

Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses

more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even

going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which

is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees

large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert

the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets

really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control

this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2.

Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I

would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels

with E2 balancing.

Arkansas

tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@ .co. uk> wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

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couldnt agree more - NHS go through the motions - they do not like you to ask

questions - will have to see what my letter brings - at least I am sleeping

better now!

regards

tim

paul wey <promachief@...> wrote:

the problem is nd i dont think guys in other countries understand it is we in

uk get whatever NHS gives us,we dont get to ask " can i have E2 checked " or oeven

other more basic things,if doc is enlgihtend they may do it,anytthingf we

suggest normally the doc or endo looks in amazment you have dared to ask him or

her anything.

in both treatments and tests its same if we use NHS which unless one can afford

private attention we mostly use,its hobsions choice.

i am still annoyed that the lab did not do my free testosterone even though my

own doctor asked for it!!

and even then did not actually tell anyone they had not done it,it took a lot of

checking by doc and staff to find out they had not done it,how dificlut is it to

put on the retuned results

" free testosterone asked and not done as we dont do this test "

i mean thats not hard is it,would of at least saved a lot of time and worry.

last time i asked for E2 etc i was luaghed at saying " thats sa female issue

nothing to do with you "

ok not my ownd doc but the practive nurse,and now blood tests asked for by

patients and not by doctor one has to pay for at my local practice.

NHS look for cheaperst options each time,even if in long run with people not

worrking and functioning more money is lost as long as NHS can find cheapest

injections or whatever then they are satisfied while the public are not in many

cases

less you are lucky to have a cancer then all stops are pulled out

i would like t opay private but even there one stilll needs referals and if ones

gp does not agree then thats it and as we cant all afford to pay we stixk with

what NHS offers

regards paul

Re: Endo visit

Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal

biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also

normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting

hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise?

thanks

Tim

Dan Meatheany wrote:

Hey Timbo - welcome to the group

Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses

more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even

going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which

is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees

large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert

the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets

really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control

this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2.

Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I

would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels

with E2 balancing.

Arkansas

tim_barnacle wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

------------ --------- --------- ---

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paul, that is all the information I have been given - says it all really !

tim

paul wey <promachief@...> wrote:

hi tim can you post the labs ranges please it helps

my lab range is 6-27 nmo/l though some in uk are 10.5 nmo/l and above as normal

but both are wrong NHS lab ranges are totally wrong

a guys of 40 ie my age testosteron should be around 23 nmo/l to be healthy it

should be in top two thirds so at 15/16 nmo/l mine would be better.

2 yrs ago

10.5 nmol the range then was 10.4 and above normal so yes i was told normal

WRONG

8 months ago

7.6 nmo/l

range 6-27 then and so again i was normal WRONG

4 months ago

4.6 nmo/l range 6-27 first and only time actually classed as low,CORRECT but my

doc said its first time its been low and is only slighlty lower than normal

range WRONG

6 weeks ago

7.4 nmol range 6-27 sao again classed as normal accrroding to NHS again WRONG

but at least i did get the partial androgen deficieny diagnosis though with

testosterone at

7.4 nmol 6-27

lh 2 iul 1-9

fsh 3 iul 1-19

to me and if NHS had any decent endos wouold of been classed hypogonadism

seciondary

ok each figure is not pathologically low but low enough to add serious issues to

my already serious adhd/aspergers/dyspraxia issues but sadly my local nhs cant

give me a proepr diagnosis just the andropause which will siuffice for now as i

am concentrating on my ritalin for adhd and not testosterone replacement,which

as said before NHS endo was going to give trt only and not anythiong else

regarding male or female hormones so thats no good.

so your 10 nmo/l is not normal at all its just to save money in the NHS to

dismiss your needs

regards paul

Re: Endo visit

Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal

biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also

normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting

hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise?

thanks

Tim

Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany (DOT) com> wrote:

Hey Timbo - welcome to the group

Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses

more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even

going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which

is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees

large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert

the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets

really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control

this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2.

Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I

would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels

with E2 balancing.

Arkansas

tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@ .co. uk> wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

------------ --------- --------- ---

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ok on that as others have suggested some endos believe 11.3 nmo/l or below is

indicitaive of hypogonadsim secondary ,but in NHS i think thats a rarity and we

jusat get told its normal range

regards paul

Re: Endo visit

Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal

biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also

normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting

hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise?

thanks

Tim

Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@ . com> wrote:

Hey Timbo - welcome to the group

Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses

more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even

going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which

is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees

large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert

the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets

really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control

this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2.

Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I

would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels

with E2 balancing.

Arkansas

tim_barnacle <tim_barnacle@ .co. uk> wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

------------ --------- --------- ---

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  • 1 month later...

HI paul have just had a response from the endo - not prepared to test for

Estrogen, and increase the testogel to two a day - not very helpful really.

Might try my old one!

tim

paul wey <promachief@...> wrote:

ok on that as others have suggested some endos believe 11.3 nmo/l or below is

indicitaive of hypogonadsim secondary ,but in NHS i think thats a rarity and we

jusat get told its normal range

regards paul

Re: Endo visit

Hi dan - finally had some results - Uk testosterone normal range 10nmo/l Normal

biochemistry creatinine 82umo/l and eGFR (kidney function) Liver function also

normal. I have written back and asked abourt oestrogen levels, as I am getting

hot flushes and man boobs on the testogetl. can you advise?

thanks

Tim

Dan Meatheany wrote:

Hey Timbo - welcome to the group

Most of us are dealing with the fluctuations of shots by going to lower doses

more frequently. The standard has been ~ 100 mg every 7 days but some are even

going farther with 2 shots per 7 days. We have found that estradiol (E2) which

is one of the estrogen molecules, has been an issue also. As your body sees

large levels of T in the system, it uses an enzyme called aromatase to convert

the T to E2. E2 at elevated levels has similar symptoms as low T so it gets

really confusing. A lot of us on an aromatase inhibitor (Arimidex) to control

this conversion. This gives you 2 bangs for the buck, higher T and lower E2.

Problem is you can't go too low on E2 or its just as bad - real balancing act. I

would suggest you get your E2 checked and either do weekly shots or do the gels

with E2 balancing.

Arkansas

tim_barnacle wrote:

Hi - am new to this group, and am trying to find out more about the

condition.

Since having an op for undescended testes at tge age of 9, and delayed

puberty/small genitalia, I have struggled to come to terms with what

is wrong and how to deal with. No-one has explained or helped. hHd

plenty of blood tests but often never get to see the results

I have had injections every three weeks of Sustanon 250, but have

changed recently to 5ml gel as found the surges of testosterone diff

to deal with. I have a new endo and an appointment Friday.

Can anyone advise the sort of things I should be asking about

testosterone levels? Also not sure what is meant by the other levels

you guys seem to be mentioning. They do seem to be important.

Thanks

Timbo

------------ --------- --------- ---

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  • 1 year later...
Guest guest

I know that this is not helpful at all but you said

I think the thing is you pin all your hopes on an appointment you

have been waiting months for and then come away feeling disheartened

or having forgotten to say something., and then you have months to

wait before trying again.

I SAY AMEN TO THAT!!! You feel like you are knocking your head against

a brick wall, that brick wall is the NHS protocol on thyroid treatment

grrr.

I think it is marvellous that you even managed to get a trial of T3,

no chance of that in my area at all.

Sincerely hope you feel better soon.

Lotsa luv

Dawnx

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Guest guest

HI Lizzie

First write down what symptoms you have, what have gone, what new ones have come up. Write down your temperatures on the same list, and also any questions that you need to Ask Dr B. If you are feeling a little a little "jittery" this could be because you are taking too much T3 - or you have one of the following, that is stopping your thyroid hormone replacement from working properly. (1) Low ferritin (2) low adrenal reserve (3) Candida Albicans (4) mercury poisoning (5) not on the correct dose of t4/T3 combination. You might need to stop taking T4 because you could have a conversion block and go onto T3 only. Dr B will hopefully, be able to sort this. However, do make sure you write everything down because as you say, there is nothing worse than having your consultation, getting nowhere and then remembering you didn't ask this or that. Don't ask for Armour at this particular time, give this medication time to work. Quite often we need to titrate the dosage until we get what our body requires, so be patient a little longer.

Also remember not to take your thyroid hormone replacement for at least 24 hours. Let us know how you get on and good luck Lizzie.

luv - Sheila

What a long rambling message Im sorry if I sound really sorry formyself I know there are some of you out there really suffering.I think the thing is you pin all your hopes on an appointment youhave been waiting months for and then come away feeling disheartenedor having forgotten to say something., and then you have months towait before trying again.If anyone can help I would welcome your advice.Love Lizzie

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Guest guest

Hi Sheila

Thankyou for your advice. I will try writing everything down. Do you

think he will be interested in the temperatures or is this more of an

adrenal thing? My Ferritin is coming up and at the last test was 46 4

weeks ago,also I think my adrenals have improved due to my blood

pressure results, I dont think I have candida but do have amalgum

fillings.

Love Lizzie

> First write down what symptoms you have, what have gone, what new

ones have come up. Write down your temperatures on the same list, and

also any questions that you need to Ask Dr B. If you are feeling a

little a little " jittery " this could be because you are taking too

much T3 - or you have one of the following, that is stopping your

thyroid hormone replacement from working properly. (1) Low ferritin

(2) low adrenal reserve (3) Candida Albicans (4) mercury poisoning (5)

not on the correct dose of t4/T3 combination. You might need to stop

taking T4 because you could have a conversion block and go onto T3

only. Dr B will hopefully, be able to sort this. However, do make sure

you write everything down because as you say, there is nothing worse

than having your consultation, getting nowhere and then remembering

you didn't ask this or that. Don't ask for Armour at this particular

time, give this medication time to work. Quite often we need to

titrate the dosage until we get what our body requires, so be patient

a little longer.

>

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Guest guest

HI Lizzie

Temperature is both adrenal and thyroid. When you get on the right thyroid hormone and dose, your temperature should rise. Your temperature shows you are not yet at your optimal dose, but whether this has to be L-thyroxine, Liothyronine or Armour, we will have to wait and see.

Luv - Sheila

Hi SheilaThankyou for your advice. I will try writing everything down. Do youthink he will be interested in the temperatures or is this more of anadrenal thing? My Ferritin is coming up and at the last test was 46 4weeks ago,also I think my adrenals have improved due to my bloodpressure results, I dont think I have candida but do have amalgumfillings.Love Lizzie

..

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Guest guest

Hi sheila

I hope you get this before I leave for my apptmnt.

I checked my basal temp this morning and it was 37.1 and yesterday

36.9. This was day 20 and 21 of my cycle. do you think this means that

I could have reached my optimal dose. Not sure whether to mention

these today as I still have some symptoms, namely joint pains, energy

slumps and thigh cramps. Help

Love Lizzie

> Temperature is both adrenal and thyroid. When you get on the right

thyroid hormone and dose, your temperature should rise. Your

temperature shows you are not yet at your optimal dose, but whether

this has to be L-thyroxine, Liothyronine or Armour, we will have to

wait and see.

>

>

>

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG.

> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1389 - Release Date:

21/04/2008 08:34

>

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