Guest guest Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 Testim gel more effective than androgel? I've been on Testim for two weeks now and am getting the same positive results i was last time. my T prior to starting was 446ng/dl...will check current status next week. my buddy (who has same symptoms as me...T 430 and ex-user of proscar for hair loss) saw an endo who agreed that his T was low for a 29yo. wasn't sure about the proscar cause though. he's getting more tests done (FSH and prolactin). his LH was mid range ( 5...range 2-9). he agreed that a boost was in store but wasn't sure just yet and wants the test results. he did give him a prescription for Testim but suggested using half the tube per day so that the body will continue to produce what it has been. using the full 5g tube may cause the body to shut down. that makes sense doesn't it? philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: Yes if you see white streaks you did not spread it out far enough. Phil retrogrouch@... wrote: On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:43:44 -0000, you wrote: >Hi Phil, >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim it >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should not. I >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm using >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), but have >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without any real >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little longer to >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher applying it >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this earlier >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T passing through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was too thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as possible. It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on both arms, abdomen and then thighs. I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by sticking to my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I try to avoid the midriff if I can. On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I do two packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and one in the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the spike some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 No I know of men on 2.5 grams of Androgel and it stopped there testis from making T. I can't say what the Dr. is thinking any T put on the body does this the brain sees it there and does not send the message to the testis to make more T. Maybe because it is not made by the testis and that is why it does this. I would say try HCG to keep his Testis working. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: Testim gel more effective than androgel? I've been on Testim for two weeks now and am getting the same positive results i was last time. my T prior to starting was 446ng/dl...will check current status next week. my buddy (who has same symptoms as me...T 430 and ex-user of proscar for hair loss) saw an endo who agreed that his T was low for a 29yo. wasn't sure about the proscar cause though. he's getting more tests done (FSH and prolactin). his LH was mid range ( 5...range 2-9). he agreed that a boost was in store but wasn't sure just yet and wants the test results. he did give him a prescription for Testim but suggested using half the tube per day so that the body will continue to produce what it has been. using the full 5g tube may cause the body to shut down. that makes sense doesn't it? philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: Yes if you see white streaks you did not spread it out far enough. Phil retrogrouch@... wrote: On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:43:44 -0000, you wrote: >Hi Phil, >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim it >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should not. I >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm using >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), but have >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without any real >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little longer to >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher applying it >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this earlier >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T passing through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was too thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as possible. It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on both arms, abdomen and then thighs. I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by sticking to my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I try to avoid the midriff if I can. On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I do two packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and one in the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the spike some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2005 Report Share Posted November 17, 2005 It has more to do with the body trying to reach homeostasis... When the hypothalamus senses that your test levels are higher than normal from TRT, it slows it production of GnRH. When the piyuitary senses less GnRh then it slows its production of LH. When the testes senses less LH it slows its production of testosterone. Over time, your body will gradualy reduce its production of test so that eventually all most of the test in your body is from exogenous application. The hypothalamus doesn't care where the test came from, it just see a certain level in the body and tries to regulate it. This is why men that have been on TRT for sometime crash hard if they stop... because the body is barely or no longer producing natural test. > > >Hi Phil, > >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim it > >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should not. I > >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm using > >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), but have > >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without any real > >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little longer to > >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher applying it > >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this earlier > >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > > > I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T passing > through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was too > thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as possible. > It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on both > arms, abdomen and then thighs. > > I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by sticking to > my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I try to > avoid the midriff if I can. > > On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I do two > packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and one in > the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the spike > some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > > - - - - > Just another albino black sheep > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 You win Phil! I don't know if my insurance would cover the hcg unless the doc can make them understand that it's not for fertility. If they did cover it, there is a chance the copay would be $5.00 also. Next year, my copay for the AG will go to $80.00 for a 3 month supply (inflation?). I just read that GM is going to close 9 plants and cut 30,000 jobs, hope this doesn't affect your insurance coverage. Dave, I'm glad you are able to do the shots, but I'm still not convinced that I could. I'm a total wimp when it comes to shots. I think I could do the subq hcg, but the IM stuff scares me. I give my wife a shot of avonex every week for MS, and it is the same size needle I would need. I really don't think I could handle it at this point and since the gel seems to be helping, I'll stick with it for awhile. I am a little worried about it though, since my Uro thinks I am not absorbing the AG as well as I should, that's why I'm on so much of it. If it doesn't get my levels where they should be, I may yet have to do the shots. Time will tell. -Dan > >> >> > >> >> >Hi Phil, > >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim > >it > >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should > >> >not. I > >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm > >> >using > >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), > >but > >> >have > >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without > >any > >> >real > >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little > >> >longer to > >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher > >applying > >> >it > >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this > >> >earlier > >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T > >passing > >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was > >too > >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as > >possible. > >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on > >> >both > >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. > >> >> > >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by > >> >sticking to > >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I > >try > >> >to > >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. > >> >> > >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I > >do > >> >two > >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and > >> >one in > >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the > >> >spike > >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > >> >> > >> >> - - - - > >> >> Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Hey Dan...I used a 25g 1 " needle in the thigh. What's your wife use? My doc thinks a lot of my estrogen (E2 and others) problems are from AG, that's the switch. Can you confirm your dose of AG is 50grams per day...that's like 10 Packets!!!!!????!! That's insane. Do you mena 5grams? I think the consensus around here before was that more than 15 grams is pointless. > Re: Androgel application > > >You win Phil! I don't know if my insurance would cover the hcg >unless the doc can make them understand that it's not for >fertility. If they did cover it, there is a chance the copay would >be $5.00 also. Next year, my copay for the AG will go to $80.00 for >a 3 month supply (inflation?). I just read that GM is going to >close 9 plants and cut 30,000 jobs, hope this doesn't affect your >insurance coverage. > >Dave, I'm glad you are able to do the shots, but I'm still not >convinced that I could. I'm a total wimp when it comes to shots. I >think I could do the subq hcg, but the IM stuff scares me. I give >my wife a shot of avonex every week for MS, and it is the same size >needle I would need. I really don't think I could handle it at this >point and since the gel seems to be helping, I'll stick with it for >awhile. I am a little worried about it though, since my Uro thinks >I am not absorbing the AG as well as I should, that's why I'm on so >much of it. If it doesn't get my levels where they should be, I may >yet have to do the shots. Time will tell. -Dan > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Hi Phil, >> >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using >Testim >> >it >> >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should >> >> >not. I >> >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? >I'm >> >> >using >> >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), >> >but >> >> >have >> >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without >> >any >> >> >real >> >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little >> >> >longer to >> >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher >> >applying >> >> >it >> >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this >> >> >earlier >> >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T >> >passing >> >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was >> >too >> >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as >> >possible. >> >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with >it on >> >> >both >> >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. >> >> >> >> >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by >> >> >sticking to >> >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I >> >try >> >> >to >> >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. >> >> >> >> >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days >I >> >do >> >> >two >> >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning >and >> >> >one in >> >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens >the >> >> >spike >> >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. >> >> >> >> >> >> - - - - >> >> >> Just another albino black sheep > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 I'm on 10 grams a day. Your doc may be right, I think the AG does give more E2 conversion, guess you will find out if you E2 goes down with the shots. Her needle is a 23 gauge 1 1/4 " (rotated in the thighs and arms). I guess it is a little bigger than I would need, but, I'm sure the pain would be quite similar. -Dan > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Hi Phil, > >> >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using > >Testim > >> >it > >> >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should > >> >> >not. I > >> >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? > >I'm > >> >> >using > >> >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), > >> >but > >> >> >have > >> >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without > >> >any > >> >> >real > >> >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little > >> >> >longer to > >> >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher > >> >applying > >> >> >it > >> >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this > >> >> >earlier > >> >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T > >> >passing > >> >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was > >> >too > >> >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as > >> >possible. > >> >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with > >it on > >> >> >both > >> >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by > >> >> >sticking to > >> >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I > >> >try > >> >> >to > >> >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days > >I > >> >do > >> >> >two > >> >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning > >and > >> >> >one in > >> >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens > >the > >> >> >spike > >> >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> - - - - > >> >> >> Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Anything that you can push through a 23g needle you can also push through a 25g needle. Do your wife a favor and switch to 25g. What you can do is buy the syringe with a 20/23g needle for drawing and switch to a 25g for injecting. The needles are pretty cheap. You can get 25 (25g x 1.5 " ) for $3 at getpinz. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >Hi Phil, > > >> >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using > > >Testim > > >> >it > > >> >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it > should > > >> >> >not. I > > >> >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? > > >I'm > > >> >> >using > > >> >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and > abs), > > >> >but > > >> >> >have > > >> >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder > without > > >> >any > > >> >> >real > > >> >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a > little > > >> >> >longer to > > >> >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher > > >> >applying > > >> >> >it > > >> >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about > this > > >> >> >earlier > > >> >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T > > >> >passing > > >> >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it > was > > >> >too > > >> >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as > > >> >possible. > > >> >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with > > >it on > > >> >> >both > > >> >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by > > >> >> >sticking to > > >> >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat > there. I > > >> >try > > >> >> >to > > >> >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On > days > > >I > > >> >do > > >> >> >two > > >> >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the > morning > > >and > > >> >> >one in > > >> >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also > lessens > > >the > > >> >> >spike > > >> >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> - - - - > > >> >> >> Just another albino black sheep > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Dan if you are all ready getting Andorgel from your insurance then there should not be a problem getting HCG for low T. As for doing shots I have been doing my 150 mg. shots subQ and so far it is all good I am using the needle I use for the HCG shots it takes some time to get the T out of the vile but it is all good. I have read a lot of posts were guys do there T shot in the belly 6 " to this side of you belly button. You don't need to do them IM. Phil " opus1.rm " <no_reply > wrote: You win Phil! I don't know if my insurance would cover the hcg unless the doc can make them understand that it's not for fertility. If they did cover it, there is a chance the copay would be $5.00 also. Next year, my copay for the AG will go to $80.00 for a 3 month supply (inflation?). I just read that GM is going to close 9 plants and cut 30,000 jobs, hope this doesn't affect your insurance coverage. Dave, I'm glad you are able to do the shots, but I'm still not convinced that I could. I'm a total wimp when it comes to shots. I think I could do the subq hcg, but the IM stuff scares me. I give my wife a shot of avonex every week for MS, and it is the same size needle I would need. I really don't think I could handle it at this point and since the gel seems to be helping, I'll stick with it for awhile. I am a little worried about it though, since my Uro thinks I am not absorbing the AG as well as I should, that's why I'm on so much of it. If it doesn't get my levels where they should be, I may yet have to do the shots. Time will tell. -Dan > >> >> > >> >> >Hi Phil, > >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim > >it > >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should > >> >not. I > >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm > >> >using > >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), > >but > >> >have > >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without > >any > >> >real > >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little > >> >longer to > >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher > >applying > >> >it > >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this > >> >earlier > >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T > >passing > >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was > >too > >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as > >possible. > >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on > >> >both > >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. > >> >> > >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by > >> >sticking to > >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I > >try > >> >to > >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. > >> >> > >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I > >do > >> >two > >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and > >> >one in > >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the > >> >spike > >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > >> >> > >> >> - - - - > >> >> Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Anything over 10 grams will drive your E2 and DHT nuts. Phil Dave <daultman@...> wrote: Hey Dan...I used a 25g 1 " needle in the thigh. What's your wife use? My doc thinks a lot of my estrogen (E2 and others) problems are from AG, that's the switch. Can you confirm your dose of AG is 50grams per day...that's like 10 Packets!!!!!????!! That's insane. Do you mena 5grams? I think the consensus around here before was that more than 15 grams is pointless. > Re: Androgel application > > >You win Phil! I don't know if my insurance would cover the hcg >unless the doc can make them understand that it's not for >fertility. If they did cover it, there is a chance the copay would >be $5.00 also. Next year, my copay for the AG will go to $80.00 for >a 3 month supply (inflation?). I just read that GM is going to >close 9 plants and cut 30,000 jobs, hope this doesn't affect your >insurance coverage. > >Dave, I'm glad you are able to do the shots, but I'm still not >convinced that I could. I'm a total wimp when it comes to shots. I >think I could do the subq hcg, but the IM stuff scares me. I give >my wife a shot of avonex every week for MS, and it is the same size >needle I would need. I really don't think I could handle it at this >point and since the gel seems to be helping, I'll stick with it for >awhile. I am a little worried about it though, since my Uro thinks >I am not absorbing the AG as well as I should, that's why I'm on so >much of it. If it doesn't get my levels where they should be, I may >yet have to do the shots. Time will tell. -Dan > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Hi Phil, >> >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using >Testim >> >it >> >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should >> >> >not. I >> >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? >I'm >> >> >using >> >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), >> >but >> >> >have >> >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without >> >any >> >> >real >> >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little >> >> >longer to >> >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher >> >applying >> >> >it >> >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this >> >> >earlier >> >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T >> >passing >> >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was >> >too >> >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as >> >possible. >> >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with >it on >> >> >both >> >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. >> >> >> >> >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by >> >> >sticking to >> >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I >> >try >> >> >to >> >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. >> >> >> >> >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days >I >> >do >> >> >two >> >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning >and >> >> >one in >> >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens >the >> >> >spike >> >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. >> >> >> >> >> >> - - - - >> >> >> Just another albino black sheep > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 Phil, have you been doing them subQ long enough to really say there's not difference? > Re: Androgel application > > >Dan if you are all ready getting Andorgel from your insurance >then there should not be a problem getting HCG for low T. As >for doing shots I have been doing my 150 mg. shots subQ and so >far it is all good I am using the needle I use for the HCG >shots it takes some time to get the T out of the vile but it >is all good. I have read a lot of posts were guys do there T >shot in the belly 6 " to this side of you belly button. You >don't need to do them IM. > Phil > > " opus1.rm " <no_reply > wrote: > You win Phil! I don't know if my insurance would cover the hcg >unless the doc can make them understand that it's not for >fertility. If they did cover it, there is a chance the copay would >be $5.00 also. Next year, my copay for the AG will go to $80.00 for >a 3 month supply (inflation?). I just read that GM is going to >close 9 plants and cut 30,000 jobs, hope this doesn't affect your >insurance coverage. > >Dave, I'm glad you are able to do the shots, but I'm still not >convinced that I could. I'm a total wimp when it comes to shots. I >think I could do the subq hcg, but the IM stuff scares me. I give >my wife a shot of avonex every week for MS, and it is the same size >needle I would need. I really don't think I could handle it at this >point and since the gel seems to be helping, I'll stick with it for >awhile. I am a little worried about it though, since my Uro thinks >I am not absorbing the AG as well as I should, that's why I'm on so >much of it. If it doesn't get my levels where they should be, I may >yet have to do the shots. Time will tell. -Dan > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Hi Phil, >> >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using >Testim >> >it >> >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should >> >> >not. I >> >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? >I'm >> >> >using >> >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), >> >but >> >> >have >> >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without >> >any >> >> >real >> >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little >> >> >longer to >> >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher >> >applying >> >> >it >> >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this >> >> >earlier >> >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T >> >passing >> >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was >> >too >> >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as >> >possible. >> >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with >it on >> >> >both >> >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. >> >> >> >> >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by >> >> >sticking to >> >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I >> >try >> >> >to >> >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. >> >> >> >> >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days >I >> >do >> >> >two >> >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning >and >> >> >one in >> >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens >the >> >> >spike >> >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. >> >> >> >> >> >> - - - - >> >> >> Just another albino black sheep > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 No but have talked to men that have. Phil Dave <daultman@...> wrote: Phil, have you been doing them subQ long enough to really say there's not difference? > Re: Androgel application > > >Dan if you are all ready getting Andorgel from your insurance >then there should not be a problem getting HCG for low T. As >for doing shots I have been doing my 150 mg. shots subQ and so >far it is all good I am using the needle I use for the HCG >shots it takes some time to get the T out of the vile but it >is all good. I have read a lot of posts were guys do there T >shot in the belly 6 " to this side of you belly button. You >don't need to do them IM. > Phil > > " opus1.rm " <no_reply > wrote: > You win Phil! I don't know if my insurance would cover the hcg >unless the doc can make them understand that it's not for >fertility. If they did cover it, there is a chance the copay would >be $5.00 also. Next year, my copay for the AG will go to $80.00 for >a 3 month supply (inflation?). I just read that GM is going to >close 9 plants and cut 30,000 jobs, hope this doesn't affect your >insurance coverage. > >Dave, I'm glad you are able to do the shots, but I'm still not >convinced that I could. I'm a total wimp when it comes to shots. I >think I could do the subq hcg, but the IM stuff scares me. I give >my wife a shot of avonex every week for MS, and it is the same size >needle I would need. I really don't think I could handle it at this >point and since the gel seems to be helping, I'll stick with it for >awhile. I am a little worried about it though, since my Uro thinks >I am not absorbing the AG as well as I should, that's why I'm on so >much of it. If it doesn't get my levels where they should be, I may >yet have to do the shots. Time will tell. -Dan > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Hi Phil, >> >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using >Testim >> >it >> >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should >> >> >not. I >> >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? >I'm >> >> >using >> >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), >> >but >> >> >have >> >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without >> >any >> >> >real >> >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little >> >> >longer to >> >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher >> >applying >> >> >it >> >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this >> >> >earlier >> >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T >> >passing >> >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was >> >too >> >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as >> >possible. >> >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with >it on >> >> >both >> >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. >> >> >> >> >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by >> >> >sticking to >> >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I >> >try >> >> >to >> >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. >> >> >> >> >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days >I >> >do >> >> >two >> >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning >and >> >> >one in >> >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens >the >> >> >spike >> >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. >> >> >> >> >> >> - - - - >> >> >> Just another albino black sheep > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 I believe that Dr. Shippen is an advocate of sub-q injects of test... The primary issue with doing this is the possiblity of increased E2 levels since fat carries alot of aromatase. I'm not a big fan of Dr. Shippen's protocols... i much prefer Dr. Crisler's as his are more logical with alot of feedback from people all over the Net. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Hi Phil, > >> >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using > >Testim > >> >it > >> >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should > >> >> >not. I > >> >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? > >I'm > >> >> >using > >> >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs ), > >> >but > >> >> >have > >> >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without > >> >any > >> >> >real > >> >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little > >> >> >longer to > >> >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher > >> >applying > >> >> >it > >> >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this > >> >> >earlier > >> >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T > >> >passing > >> >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was > >> >too > >> >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as > >> >possible. > >> >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with > >it on > >> >> >both > >> >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by > >> >> >sticking to > >> >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I > >> >try > >> >> >to > >> >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days > >I > >> >do > >> >> >two > >> >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning > >and > >> >> >one in > >> >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens > >the > >> >> >spike > >> >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> - - - - > >> >> >> Just another albino black sheep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Thanks, I will definately look into that. Is there a big difference in pain with a 25g vs 23g? We could talk with the neurologist to see if he can rx it this way too. The Avonex is not a thick liquid, so it shouldn't be a problem. If it can be done with a 25g, I wonder why it comes with the 23g? Hmmmm -Dan > > > > > > Hey Dan...I used a 25g 1 " needle in the thigh. What's your wife > > use? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Phil, I think my insurance would pay for the hcg, but it would require my doc to convince them it was necessary. Last time I asked him about it, he wanted to refer me to an Endo, which I don't want to do. I'm thinking of looking for a GP. Good docs are hard to find. It's very encouraging to hear that you're doing the T subQ. How long have you been doing it this way? Do you think this is adding to your E2 problems of late? If I thought I could do it subQ, I would probably switch to the shots. -Dan > > >> >> > > >> >> >Hi Phil, > > >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using > Testim > > >it > > >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should > > >> >not. I > > >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? > I'm > > >> >using > > >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), > > >but > > >> >have > > >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without > > >any > > >> >real > > >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little > > >> >longer to > > >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher > > >applying > > >> >it > > >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this > > >> >earlier > > >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T > > >passing > > >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was > > >too > > >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as > > >possible. > > >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with > it on > > >> >both > > >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. > > >> >> > > >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by > > >> >sticking to > > >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I > > >try > > >> >to > > >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. > > >> >> > > >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days > I > > >do > > >> >two > > >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning > and > > >> >one in > > >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens > the > > >> >spike > > >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > > >> >> > > >> >> - - - - > > >> >> Just another albino black sheep > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Not a big difference, but i can feel it. It's also just better practice since injections done to the same area over time will cause a certain amount of scarring in the tissue. The thinner the needle, the less scarring... > > > > > > > > Hey Dan...I used a 25g 1 " needle in the thigh. What's your > wife > > > use? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 I can't tell the difference doing subQ or IM I just got back from the Dr.'s did a blood test and got a shot in the butt. I think I feel the shot faster subQ. I do my shots at home when I can't get to my Dr.'s to have them. So when I do them at home I do subQ but the Dr.'s does them IM in the butt. Phil " opus1.rm " <no_reply > wrote: Phil, I think my insurance would pay for the hcg, but it would require my doc to convince them it was necessary. Last time I asked him about it, he wanted to refer me to an Endo, which I don't want to do. I'm thinking of looking for a GP. Good docs are hard to find. It's very encouraging to hear that you're doing the T subQ. How long have you been doing it this way? Do you think this is adding to your E2 problems of late? If I thought I could do it subQ, I would probably switch to the shots. -Dan > > >> >> > > >> >> >Hi Phil, > > >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using > Testim > > >it > > >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should > > >> >not. I > > >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? > I'm > > >> >using > > >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), > > >but > > >> >have > > >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without > > >any > > >> >real > > >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little > > >> >longer to > > >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher > > >applying > > >> >it > > >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this > > >> >earlier > > >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T > > >passing > > >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was > > >too > > >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as > > >possible. > > >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with > it on > > >> >both > > >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. > > >> >> > > >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by > > >> >sticking to > > >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I > > >try > > >> >to > > >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. > > >> >> > > >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days > I > > >do > > >> >two > > >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning > and > > >> >one in > > >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens > the > > >> >spike > > >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > > >> >> > > >> >> - - - - > > >> >> Just another albino black sheep > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 Yes Dr. 's is the man and he knows about doing subQ shots and is staying with IM until he has more info on doing it. Phil sikdogg <sikdogg@...> wrote: I believe that Dr. Shippen is an advocate of sub-q injects of test... The primary issue with doing this is the possiblity of increased E2 levels since fat carries alot of aromatase. I'm not a big fan of Dr. Shippen's protocols... i much prefer Dr. Crisler's as his are more logical with alot of feedback from people all over the Net. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >Hi Phil, > >> >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using > >Testim > >> >it > >> >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should > >> >> >not. I > >> >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? > >I'm > >> >> >using > >> >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs ), > >> >but > >> >> >have > >> >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without > >> >any > >> >> >real > >> >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little > >> >> >longer to > >> >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher > >> >applying > >> >> >it > >> >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this > >> >> >earlier > >> >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T > >> >passing > >> >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was > >> >too > >> >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as > >> >possible. > >> >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with > >it on > >> >> >both > >> >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by > >> >> >sticking to > >> >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I > >> >try > >> >> >to > >> >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days > >I > >> >do > >> >> >two > >> >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning > >and > >> >> >one in > >> >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens > >the > >> >> >spike > >> >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> - - - - > >> >> >> Just another albino black sheep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2005 Report Share Posted November 22, 2005 That could be a good point I went in for a blood test and got a shot today and I could not wait to get the shot felt like I needed it. But 4 weeks ago I cut back on my HCG shot from 500 IU's 3 times a week to 250 3 times week. And for this week I cut it back to 250 IU's the 5th and 6th days after the shot. So this may be why I felt like I needed the shot. Phil Dave <daultman@...> wrote: I'm wondering if you feel them faster after subQ if that means they might run out faster as well? > Re: Androgel application > > >I can't tell the difference doing subQ or IM I just got back >from the Dr.'s did a blood test and got a shot in the butt. I >think I feel the shot faster subQ. I do my shots at home when >I can't get to my Dr.'s to have them. So when I do them at >home I do subQ but the Dr.'s does them IM in the butt. > Phil > > " opus1.rm " <no_reply > wrote: > Phil, >I think my insurance would pay for the hcg, but it would require my >doc to convince them it was necessary. Last time I asked him about >it, he wanted to refer me to an Endo, which I don't want to do. I'm >thinking of looking for a GP. Good docs are hard to find. It's >very encouraging to hear that you're doing the T subQ. How long >have you been doing it this way? Do you think this is adding to >your E2 problems of late? If I thought I could do it subQ, I would >probably switch to the shots. -Dan > > >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >Hi Phil, >> > >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using >> Testim >> > >it >> > >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it >should >> > >> >not. I >> > >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? >> I'm >> > >> >using >> > >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and >abs), >> > >but >> > >> >have >> > >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder >without >> > >any >> > >> >real >> > >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a >little >> > >> >longer to >> > >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher >> > >applying >> > >> >it >> > >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this >> > >> >earlier >> > >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T >> > >passing >> > >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it >was >> > >too >> > >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as >> > >possible. >> > >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with >> it on >> > >> >both >> > >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by >> > >> >sticking to >> > >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat >there. I >> > >try >> > >> >to >> > >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On >days >> I >> > >do >> > >> >two >> > >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the >morning >> and >> > >> >one in >> > >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also >lessens >> the >> > >> >spike >> > >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> - - - - >> > >> >> Just another albino black sheep >> > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Some of Dr. Shippen's patients say he has them doing 3 shots a week in the fat of the belly. They said he was down on shots but had changed his mind and feels doing this cuts down big on the converson into E2. Don't ask me what there names are can't remember. Phil Kramer <bb1fit@...> wrote: I don't know, I think T should be done intramuscular. It can be done in the fat, but believe it " pools " better in muscle. philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: Dan if you are all ready getting Andorgel from your insurance then there should not be a problem getting HCG for low T. As for doing shots I have been doing my 150 mg. shots subQ and so far it is all good I am using the needle I use for the HCG shots it takes some time to get the T out of the vile but it is all good. I have read a lot of posts were guys do there T shot in the belly 6 " to this side of you belly button. You don't need to do them IM. Phil " opus1.rm " <no_reply > wrote: You win Phil! I don't know if my insurance would cover the hcg unless the doc can make them understand that it's not for fertility. If they did cover it, there is a chance the copay would be $5.00 also. Next year, my copay for the AG will go to $80.00 for a 3 month supply (inflation?). I just read that GM is going to close 9 plants and cut 30,000 jobs, hope this doesn't affect your insurance coverage. Dave, I'm glad you are able to do the shots, but I'm still not convinced that I could. I'm a total wimp when it comes to shots. I think I could do the subq hcg, but the IM stuff scares me. I give my wife a shot of avonex every week for MS, and it is the same size needle I would need. I really don't think I could handle it at this point and since the gel seems to be helping, I'll stick with it for awhile. I am a little worried about it though, since my Uro thinks I am not absorbing the AG as well as I should, that's why I'm on so much of it. If it doesn't get my levels where they should be, I may yet have to do the shots. Time will tell. -Dan > >> >> > >> >> >Hi Phil, > >> >> >I noticed that you've told people that if they're using Testim > >it > >> >> >should be rubbed in and if they are using Androgel it should > >> >not. I > >> >> >was wondering why that is? What does the rubbing in do? I'm > >> >using > >> >> >Androgel and have been rubbing it in (on shoulders and abs), > >but > >> >have > >> >> >decided to try just putting 5 grams on each shoulder without > >any > >> >real > >> >> >rubbing in. It is much thicker that way and takes a little > >> >longer to > >> >> >dry, but thought it was worth a try. Would E2 be higher > >applying > >> >it > >> >> >to more area? (I think I remember a big debate about this > >> >earlier > >> >> >this year and the answer was no.) -Dan > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I should think leaving it thick will lower the amount of T > >passing > >> >> through the skin. I sometimes get white streaks where it was > >too > >> >> thick. I personally try to spread it over as much area as > >possible. > >> >> It's a challenge with two packets. I sometimes end up with it on > >> >both > >> >> arms, abdomen and then thighs. > >> >> > >> >> I have lately tried to deal with the E2 conversion some by > >> >sticking to > >> >> my upper arms as much as possible as I have less fat there. I > >try > >> >to > >> >> avoid the midriff if I can. > >> >> > >> >> On days I do one packet doing just the arms is easy. On days I > >do > >> >two > >> >> packets (every other day) I sometimes do one in the morning and > >> >one in > >> >> the evening to keep it on my arms. The time gap also lessens the > >> >spike > >> >> some and hopefully also keeps E2 down. > >> >> > >> >> - - - - > >> >> Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Wondering if applying Androgel on " leaner " portions of one's body, such as shoulders or arms is better since it's applied directly on muscle? Conversely, when applying the gel on one's stomach, the T has to be absorbed through fat, and some of us have more than others. I know the directions say only to apply above the waist, but I would think that applying some to the thigh/quads area would be a good absorption spot. Any opinions? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 If your on gels forget about DHT and E2 they are going up anyway. Put one tube on your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far as you can reach spread it around good and rub it in well then do the same on the other side. When you get tested check your E2 and DHT if E2 is over 30 pg/ml get some Arimidex and do .25 mgs. every 3 days to keep it down. Your DHT can go up 2 to 3 times over the top of the range and not be a big deal. If it is a big deal switch to shots. hedgesonic <rphnuke@...> wrote: Is anyone applying 10gm? That is a lot of gel to work with. Any suggestions on how to apply that much would be helpful. I've read that greatly increasing the surface area increases e2 and DHT. Does anyone put a portion on, let it dry, and apply again? Thanks in advance for your insight on this. Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Autos new Car Finder tool.http://us.rd./evt=48518/*http://autos./carfinder/;_ylc=X3\ oDMTE3NWsyMDd2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDY2FyLWZpbmRlcg-- hot CTA = Autos new Car Finder tool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Why do you need 10 GMs? What is the concentration? I'm using 1 Gm of 10%. As to application: DON'T apply on fat in that it DOES aromatise into E2. also T isn't well absorbed on any area that has hair follicles. </HTML> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Androgel and Testim come in 2.5, 5, 7.5 and 10 gram doses. What are you on a compounded med. mikedalerogers@... wrote: Why do you need 10 GMs? What is the concentration? I'm using 1 Gm of 10%. As to application: DON'T apply on fat in that it DOES aromatise into E2. also T isn't well absorbed on any area that has hair follicles. </HTML> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 > > Is anyone applying 10gm? That is a lot of gel to work with. Any > suggestions on how to apply that much would be helpful. I've read > that greatly increasing the surface area increases e2 and DHT. Does > anyone put a portion on, let it dry, and apply again? > > Thanks in advance for your insight on this. > Hi hedgesonic, I use 10mg and I apply it to my shoulders ,uper arms and my upper back. I usually apply it to my back first then my upper arms and shoulders. I usually have a bit left over and once my back dries off a bit I apply the remainder on it and let it dry. Seems to be ok for me. orcman3001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2007 Report Share Posted May 26, 2007 Is anyone applying 10gm? That is a lot of gel to work with. Any > suggestions on how to apply that much would be helpful. I've read > that greatly increasing the surface area increases e2 and DHT. Does > anyone put a portion on, let it dry, and apply again? > > Thanks in advance for your insight on this. > > > > > > > Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " > Phil > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Autos new Car Finder tool.http://us.rd./evt=48518/*http://autos./carfinder/;_ylc=X3\ oDMTE3NWsyMDd2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDY2FyLWZpbmRlcg-- hot CTA = Autos new Car Finder tool > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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