Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 First off 410 is in the low normal range and good if your 84 yrs. old. http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html You need to have your Total and Free T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man. And your Estradiol " E2 " in the lower 10 to 30 range best at 20 if this is high you can have ED and trouble reaching an orgasm. It did in my sex life for 10 yrs before I found out about it when I joined here. Have your Dr. up your androgel to 10grams and check your E2 if it's high get some Arimidex and take 1/4 of a 1mg. pill every 3 days and your libido will come back and you will reach an orgasm. Phil doberman1066 <doberman1066@...> wrote: When I first talked to my Dr about my poor mood, decreased drive and flagging libido my Total T tested at 410, so we are trying Androgel 5mg per. While the mood and drive have gotten better the libido and erection strength are still behind. A urologist suggested taking the dose to 10mg per day Androgel. Everyone says 410 is within normal range but the symptoms say something is wrong. This is the first time in my life I haven't masturbated or had intercourse on a daily basis. Now I loose my erection during intercourse and have difficulty reaching climax. My question is this, how do you or the physician establish the target range to get your T into using TRT? I'm 39 and recently tried cialis, it helps with the strength of my erections but I hate to take more meds, especially ones insurance does not pay for, which I think is wrong and discrimatory. Any suggestions? experiences? Alan --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Alan - what is your E2 level - have you had it checked? High levels can produce the same symptoms. Especially if you go to 10g of androgel, you will have to watch your E2 levels and possible take arimidex to control it. Based on your comments, your T is not high enough. Most are recommending minimum levels of 600. My 2 cents - Arkansas doberman1066 <doberman1066@...> wrote: When I first talked to my Dr about my poor mood, decreased drive and flagging libido my Total T tested at 410, so we are trying Androgel 5mg per. While the mood and drive have gotten better the libido and erection strength are still behind. A urologist suggested taking the dose to 10mg per day Androgel. Everyone says 410 is within normal range but the symptoms say something is wrong. This is the first time in my life I haven't masturbated or had intercourse on a daily basis. Now I loose my erection during intercourse and have difficulty reaching climax. My question is this, how do you or the physician establish the target range to get your T into using TRT? I'm 39 and recently tried cialis, it helps with the strength of my erections but I hate to take more meds, especially ones insurance does not pay for, which I think is wrong and discrimatory. Any suggestions? experiences? Alan --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:38:36 -0000, you wrote: >When I first talked to my Dr about my poor mood, decreased drive and >flagging libido my Total T tested at 410, so we are trying Androgel >5mg per. While the mood and drive have gotten better the libido and >erection strength are still behind. A urologist suggested taking the >dose to 10mg per day Androgel. Everyone says 410 is within normal >range but the symptoms say something is wrong. This is the first time >in my life I haven't masturbated or had intercourse on a daily basis. >Now I loose my erection during intercourse and have difficulty >reaching climax. > >My question is this, how do you or the physician establish the target >range to get your T into using TRT? I'm 39 and recently tried cialis, >it helps with the strength of my erections but I hate to take more >meds, especially ones insurance does not pay for, which I think is >wrong and discrimatory. Any suggestions? experiences? I had a discussion with my doctor that if we were going to be tampering with levels it would seem only logical to find an ideal level rather than merely an adequate level. BTW at 10gr a day you'll likely need arimidex to keep the conversion to E2 down. Even at 5g that may be a part of the problem. Has he tested you for E2? I'd suggest a week or so after the dose change. ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:39:00 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >First off 410 is in the low normal range and good if your 84 yrs. old. > http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html > You need to have your Total and Free T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man. And your Estradiol " E2 " in the lower 10 to 30 range best at 20 if this is high you can have ED and trouble reaching an orgasm. It did in my sex life for 10 yrs before I found out about it when I joined here. Your upper third figure I think is a bit too rigid. I'd also ask you to consider if you'd balanced arimidex at the time you felt that was your ideal. I think the T/E2 is more important than any upper 1/3rd myself. I find I feel really good even at 600 when E2 is in check, and that's about median for my age group. ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Hey Retro - what is your desired E2 and T/E2 ratio? I think I feel best at an E2 of 20 but that is somewhat subjective. Arkansas retrogrouch@... wrote: On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:39:00 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >First off 410 is in the low normal range and good if your 84 yrs. old. > http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html > You need to have your Total and Free T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man. And your Estradiol " E2 " in the lower 10 to 30 range best at 20 if this is high you can have ED and trouble reaching an orgasm. It did in my sex life for 10 yrs before I found out about it when I joined here. Your upper third figure I think is a bit too rigid. I'd also ask you to consider if you'd balanced arimidex at the time you felt that was your ideal. I think the T/E2 is more important than any upper 1/3rd myself. I find I feel really good even at 600 when E2 is in check, and that's about median for my age group. ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:30:47 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >Hey Retro - what is your desired E2 and T/E2 ratio? I think I feel best at an E2 of 20 but that is somewhat subjective. > > Arkansas I shoot for about 600-700 T and 25 to 35 E2 - so that's about 18 to 28 I think somewhere in the 20 to 25 range is good - at least for me. My personal belief is that when TRT levels get much above media for the age the E2 issues become more problematic. But it's all theory. For me I can't see being above 800 because the E2 issues start getting problematic. Now I take one shot 100mg once a week and on the last day my levels are 600. I take about 1/2 to 3/4 of a tablet over the course of the week. Usually in 1/4 tablet increments. SOmetimes though I'll take a 1/2 tab on the day after the shot (Day three is the highest T levels supposedly and I think E2 conversion is higher around days 2-4.) ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Hi Retro I am finding I am doing about the same thing as you now with arimidex the otherday I did 1/4 of a pill when I went to bed and the next moring I need to do 1/4 again then I go 3-5 days before I need to do this again. I have tried to do 1/4 of a pill on the day I do my T shot every 3 days but I am going to low. I do feel this is the hardest thing to control E2. What are your labs range for Total T. Phil retrogrouch@... wrote: On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:30:47 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >Hey Retro - what is your desired E2 and T/E2 ratio? I think I feel best at an E2 of 20 but that is somewhat subjective. > > Arkansas I shoot for about 600-700 T and 25 to 35 E2 - so that's about 18 to 28 I think somewhere in the 20 to 25 range is good - at least for me. My personal belief is that when TRT levels get much above media for the age the E2 issues become more problematic. But it's all theory. For me I can't see being above 800 because the E2 issues start getting problematic. Now I take one shot 100mg once a week and on the last day my levels are 600. I take about 1/2 to 3/4 of a tablet over the course of the week. Usually in 1/4 tablet increments. SOmetimes though I'll take a 1/2 tab on the day after the shot (Day three is the highest T levels supposedly and I think E2 conversion is higher around days 2-4.) ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small Business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 I am with you on that. I am doing 80 mgs every 7 days. On day 7 I am running ~ 550 on T and 20 on E2. I am taking 1/4 arimidex (0.25 mg) the day of my shot. My rational is the half life of arimidex is ~ 50 hours so I know that my aromatase has been inhibited before my T peak in 72 hours. My libido is still not great with this but all of the equipment works. I am still tweeking to get the libido up. Any ideas? Arkansas retrogrouch@... wrote: On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:30:47 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >Hey Retro - what is your desired E2 and T/E2 ratio? I think I feel best at an E2 of 20 but that is somewhat subjective. > > Arkansas I shoot for about 600-700 T and 25 to 35 E2 - so that's about 18 to 28 I think somewhere in the 20 to 25 range is good - at least for me. My personal belief is that when TRT levels get much above media for the age the E2 issues become more problematic. But it's all theory. For me I can't see being above 800 because the E2 issues start getting problematic. Now I take one shot 100mg once a week and on the last day my levels are 600. I take about 1/2 to 3/4 of a tablet over the course of the week. Usually in 1/4 tablet increments. SOmetimes though I'll take a 1/2 tab on the day after the shot (Day three is the highest T levels supposedly and I think E2 conversion is higher around days 2-4.) ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:55:57 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Hi Retro I am finding I am doing about the same thing as you now with arimidex the otherday I did 1/4 of a pill when I went to bed and the next moring I need to do 1/4 again then I go 3-5 days before I need to do this again. I have tried to do 1/4 of a pill on the day I do my T shot every 3 days but I am going to low. I do feel this is the hardest thing to control E2. What are your labs range for Total T. > Phil I just switched from gel back to shots about 4 weeks ago. I've only had one test since then. It was on the last day before a shot for 600. I'm due for a check up next month. I want another test on the last day to make sure the level is not accumulating or dropping. ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:00:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >I am with you on that. I am doing 80 mgs every 7 days. On day 7 I am running ~ 550 on T and 20 on E2. I am taking 1/4 arimidex (0.25 mg) the day of my shot. My rational is the half life of arimidex is ~ 50 hours so I know that my aromatase has been inhibited before my T peak in 72 hours. My libido is still not great with this but all of the equipment works. I am still tweeking to get the libido up. Any ideas? > > Arkansas An e2 of 20 may indicate you're pushing to the bottom of the range in my opinion. Your actual level depending on when you have the test may be below 20. My libido and wood was about dead at 14. I hit 8 on one test and had no libido what so ever, As someone said here once, sex was like a handshake, if you could get there. You might try letting the level get up a bit. For me wood is my indicator. Too high or too low and the wood starts to soften. The trick is differentiating too high from too low. Every so often I stop arimidex until I start to get clear symptoms of it being too high - just to be sure. And then start over. For me that takes only about a week when I'm low. But I've been doing this a while now and I seem to have the range pretty narrow for myself, meaning I don't drop very low or get very high. (Knock on wood ;-) ) ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Knock on " wood! " Very punny! LOL _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of retrogrouch@... Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: Re: Target T Range On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:00:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >I am with you on that. I am doing 80 mgs every 7 days. On day 7 I am running ~ 550 on T and 20 on E2. I am taking 1/4 arimidex (0.25 mg) the day of my shot. My rational is the half life of arimidex is ~ 50 hours so I know that my aromatase has been inhibited before my T peak in 72 hours. My libido is still not great with this but all of the equipment works. I am still tweeking to get the libido up. Any ideas? > > Arkansas An e2 of 20 may indicate you're pushing to the bottom of the range in my opinion. Your actual level depending on when you have the test may be below 20. My libido and wood was about dead at 14. I hit 8 on one test and had no libido what so ever, As someone said here once, sex was like a handshake, if you could get there. You might try letting the level get up a bit. For me wood is my indicator. Too high or too low and the wood starts to soften. The trick is differentiating too high from too low. Every so often I stop arimidex until I start to get clear symptoms of it being too high - just to be sure. And then start over. For me that takes only about a week when I'm low. But I've been doing this a while now and I seem to have the range pretty narrow for myself, meaning I don't drop very low or get very high. (Knock on wood ;-) ) ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:25:54 -0700, you wrote: > >Knock on " wood! " Very punny! LOL " A pun is the lowest form of humor - if you didn't think of it first. " ________________ I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me. Terence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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