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First off 410 is in the low normal range and good if your 84 yrs. old.

http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

You need to have your Total and Free T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your

labs range for a young man. And your Estradiol " E2 " in the lower 10 to 30 range

best at 20 if this is high you can have ED and trouble reaching an orgasm. It

did in my sex life for 10 yrs before I found out about it when I joined here.

Have your Dr. up your androgel to 10grams and check your E2 if it's high get

some Arimidex and take 1/4 of a 1mg. pill every 3 days and your libido will come

back and you will reach an orgasm.

Phil

doberman1066 <doberman1066@...> wrote:

When I first talked to my Dr about my poor mood, decreased drive and

flagging libido my Total T tested at 410, so we are trying Androgel

5mg per. While the mood and drive have gotten better the libido and

erection strength are still behind. A urologist suggested taking the

dose to 10mg per day Androgel. Everyone says 410 is within normal

range but the symptoms say something is wrong. This is the first time

in my life I haven't masturbated or had intercourse on a daily basis.

Now I loose my erection during intercourse and have difficulty

reaching climax.

My question is this, how do you or the physician establish the target

range to get your T into using TRT? I'm 39 and recently tried cialis,

it helps with the strength of my erections but I hate to take more

meds, especially ones insurance does not pay for, which I think is

wrong and discrimatory. Any suggestions? experiences?

Alan

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Alan - what is your E2 level - have you had it checked? High levels can produce

the same symptoms. Especially if you go to 10g of androgel, you will have to

watch your E2 levels and possible take arimidex to control it. Based on your

comments, your T is not high enough. Most are recommending minimum levels of

600.

My 2 cents - Arkansas

doberman1066 <doberman1066@...> wrote:

When I first talked to my Dr about my poor mood, decreased drive and

flagging libido my Total T tested at 410, so we are trying Androgel

5mg per. While the mood and drive have gotten better the libido and

erection strength are still behind. A urologist suggested taking the

dose to 10mg per day Androgel. Everyone says 410 is within normal

range but the symptoms say something is wrong. This is the first time

in my life I haven't masturbated or had intercourse on a daily basis.

Now I loose my erection during intercourse and have difficulty

reaching climax.

My question is this, how do you or the physician establish the target

range to get your T into using TRT? I'm 39 and recently tried cialis,

it helps with the strength of my erections but I hate to take more

meds, especially ones insurance does not pay for, which I think is

wrong and discrimatory. Any suggestions? experiences?

Alan

---------------------------------

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On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:38:36 -0000, you wrote:

>When I first talked to my Dr about my poor mood, decreased drive and

>flagging libido my Total T tested at 410, so we are trying Androgel

>5mg per. While the mood and drive have gotten better the libido and

>erection strength are still behind. A urologist suggested taking the

>dose to 10mg per day Androgel. Everyone says 410 is within normal

>range but the symptoms say something is wrong. This is the first time

>in my life I haven't masturbated or had intercourse on a daily basis.

>Now I loose my erection during intercourse and have difficulty

>reaching climax.

>

>My question is this, how do you or the physician establish the target

>range to get your T into using TRT? I'm 39 and recently tried cialis,

>it helps with the strength of my erections but I hate to take more

>meds, especially ones insurance does not pay for, which I think is

>wrong and discrimatory. Any suggestions? experiences?

I had a discussion with my doctor that if we were going to be

tampering with levels it would seem only logical to find an ideal

level rather than merely an adequate level.

BTW at 10gr a day you'll likely need arimidex to keep the conversion

to E2 down. Even at 5g that may be a part of the problem.

Has he tested you for E2? I'd suggest a week or so after the dose

change.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

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On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:39:00 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>First off 410 is in the low normal range and good if your 84 yrs. old.

> http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

> You need to have your Total and Free T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your

labs range for a young man. And your Estradiol " E2 " in the lower 10 to 30 range

best at 20 if this is high you can have ED and trouble reaching an orgasm. It

did in my sex life for 10 yrs before I found out about it when I joined here.

Your upper third figure I think is a bit too rigid. I'd also ask you

to consider if you'd balanced arimidex at the time you felt that was

your ideal.

I think the T/E2 is more important than any upper 1/3rd myself. I find

I feel really good even at 600 when E2 is in check, and that's about

median for my age group.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

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Hey Retro - what is your desired E2 and T/E2 ratio? I think I feel best at an E2

of 20 but that is somewhat subjective.

Arkansas

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:39:00 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>First off 410 is in the low normal range and good if your 84 yrs. old.

> http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

> You need to have your Total and Free T levels up into the upper 1/3 of your

labs range for a young man. And your Estradiol " E2 " in the lower 10 to 30 range

best at 20 if this is high you can have ED and trouble reaching an orgasm. It

did in my sex life for 10 yrs before I found out about it when I joined here.

Your upper third figure I think is a bit too rigid. I'd also ask you

to consider if you'd balanced arimidex at the time you felt that was

your ideal.

I think the T/E2 is more important than any upper 1/3rd myself. I find

I feel really good even at 600 when E2 is in check, and that's about

median for my age group.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

---------------------------------

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On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:30:47 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>

>Hey Retro - what is your desired E2 and T/E2 ratio? I think I feel best at an

E2 of 20 but that is somewhat subjective.

>

> Arkansas

I shoot for about 600-700 T and 25 to 35 E2 - so that's about 18 to 28

I think somewhere in the 20 to 25 range is good - at least for me.

My personal belief is that when TRT levels get much above media for

the age the E2 issues become more problematic. But it's all theory.

For me I can't see being above 800 because the E2 issues start getting

problematic. Now I take one shot 100mg once a week and on the last day

my levels are 600. I take about 1/2 to 3/4 of a tablet over the

course of the week. Usually in 1/4 tablet increments. SOmetimes

though I'll take a 1/2 tab on the day after the shot (Day three is the

highest T levels supposedly and I think E2 conversion is higher around

days 2-4.)

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

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Hi Retro I am finding I am doing about the same thing as you now with arimidex

the otherday I did 1/4 of a pill when I went to bed and the next moring I need

to do 1/4 again then I go 3-5 days before I need to do this again. I have tried

to do 1/4 of a pill on the day I do my T shot every 3 days but I am going to

low. I do feel this is the hardest thing to control E2. What are your labs

range for Total T.

Phil

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:30:47 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>

>Hey Retro - what is your desired E2 and T/E2 ratio? I think I feel best at an

E2 of 20 but that is somewhat subjective.

>

> Arkansas

I shoot for about 600-700 T and 25 to 35 E2 - so that's about 18 to 28

I think somewhere in the 20 to 25 range is good - at least for me.

My personal belief is that when TRT levels get much above media for

the age the E2 issues become more problematic. But it's all theory.

For me I can't see being above 800 because the E2 issues start getting

problematic. Now I take one shot 100mg once a week and on the last day

my levels are 600. I take about 1/2 to 3/4 of a tablet over the

course of the week. Usually in 1/4 tablet increments. SOmetimes

though I'll take a 1/2 tab on the day after the shot (Day three is the

highest T levels supposedly and I think E2 conversion is higher around

days 2-4.)

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

---------------------------------

Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small

Business.

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I am with you on that. I am doing 80 mgs every 7 days. On day 7 I am running ~

550 on T and 20 on E2. I am taking 1/4 arimidex (0.25 mg) the day of my shot. My

rational is the half life of arimidex is ~ 50 hours so I know that my aromatase

has been inhibited before my T peak in 72 hours. My libido is still not great

with this but all of the equipment works. I am still tweeking to get the libido

up. Any ideas?

Arkansas

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:30:47 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>

>Hey Retro - what is your desired E2 and T/E2 ratio? I think I feel best at an

E2 of 20 but that is somewhat subjective.

>

> Arkansas

I shoot for about 600-700 T and 25 to 35 E2 - so that's about 18 to 28

I think somewhere in the 20 to 25 range is good - at least for me.

My personal belief is that when TRT levels get much above media for

the age the E2 issues become more problematic. But it's all theory.

For me I can't see being above 800 because the E2 issues start getting

problematic. Now I take one shot 100mg once a week and on the last day

my levels are 600. I take about 1/2 to 3/4 of a tablet over the

course of the week. Usually in 1/4 tablet increments. SOmetimes

though I'll take a 1/2 tab on the day after the shot (Day three is the

highest T levels supposedly and I think E2 conversion is higher around

days 2-4.)

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

---------------------------------

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On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:55:57 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Hi Retro I am finding I am doing about the same thing as you now with arimidex

the otherday I did 1/4 of a pill when I went to bed and the next moring I need

to do 1/4 again then I go 3-5 days before I need to do this again. I have tried

to do 1/4 of a pill on the day I do my T shot every 3 days but I am going to

low. I do feel this is the hardest thing to control E2. What are your labs

range for Total T.

> Phil

I just switched from gel back to shots about 4 weeks ago. I've only

had one test since then. It was on the last day before a shot for 600.

I'm due for a check up next month. I want another test on the last day

to make sure the level is not accumulating or dropping.

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

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On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:00:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>I am with you on that. I am doing 80 mgs every 7 days. On day 7 I am running ~

550 on T and 20 on E2. I am taking 1/4 arimidex (0.25 mg) the day of my shot. My

rational is the half life of arimidex is ~ 50 hours so I know that my aromatase

has been inhibited before my T peak in 72 hours. My libido is still not great

with this but all of the equipment works. I am still tweeking to get the libido

up. Any ideas?

>

> Arkansas

An e2 of 20 may indicate you're pushing to the bottom of the range in

my opinion. Your actual level depending on when you have the test may

be below 20. My libido and wood was about dead at 14. I hit 8 on one

test and had no libido what so ever, As someone said here once, sex

was like a handshake, if you could get there.

You might try letting the level get up a bit.

For me wood is my indicator. Too high or too low and the wood starts

to soften. The trick is differentiating too high from too low.

Every so often I stop arimidex until I start to get clear symptoms of

it being too high - just to be sure. And then start over. For me that

takes only about a week when I'm low.

But I've been doing this a while now and I seem to have the range

pretty narrow for myself, meaning I don't drop very low or get very

high. (Knock on wood ;-) )

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

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Knock on " wood! " Very punny! LOL

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of retrogrouch@...

Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 10:23 AM

Subject: Re: Target T Range

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:00:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>I am with you on that. I am doing 80 mgs every 7 days. On day 7 I am

running ~ 550 on T and 20 on E2. I am taking 1/4 arimidex (0.25 mg) the day

of my shot. My rational is the half life of arimidex is ~ 50 hours so I know

that my aromatase has been inhibited before my T peak in 72 hours. My libido

is still not great with this but all of the equipment works. I am still

tweeking to get the libido up. Any ideas?

>

> Arkansas

An e2 of 20 may indicate you're pushing to the bottom of the range in

my opinion. Your actual level depending on when you have the test may

be below 20. My libido and wood was about dead at 14. I hit 8 on one

test and had no libido what so ever, As someone said here once, sex

was like a handshake, if you could get there.

You might try letting the level get up a bit.

For me wood is my indicator. Too high or too low and the wood starts

to soften. The trick is differentiating too high from too low.

Every so often I stop arimidex until I start to get clear symptoms of

it being too high - just to be sure. And then start over. For me that

takes only about a week when I'm low.

But I've been doing this a while now and I seem to have the range

pretty narrow for myself, meaning I don't drop very low or get very

high. (Knock on wood ;-) )

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

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On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:25:54 -0700, you wrote:

>

>Knock on " wood! " Very punny! LOL

" A pun is the lowest form of humor - if you didn't think of it

first. "

________________

I am human; nothing in humanity is alien to me.

Terence

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