Re: I have muscles!

[Guest guest]

Dave-

I've noticed a lot more muscle in my thighs, which is where I inject.

I was once thinking about trying injections in the biceps (as well as

other places) but I've read posts on the Meso-Rx board where a lot of

body-builders hate bicept injections. I guess if they get a charly

horse or something there, the pain throws off their training.

Rich

>

> ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but I turn

50

> in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in my

arms.

> When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make muscles

to

> save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more

muscles

> from regular day to day activity. Started taking testosterone

> injections about 1 year ago.

>

> What you can take away from this is don't expect things to change

over

> night. Even a few months might not make much difference. For me

it

> took a year to start seeing some body changes.

>

[Guest guest]

Good Advice - it also took me a year to get close to feeling good. Another year

to tweek it - actually I am still tweeking and probably always will.

Arkansas

Dave <kidsxx5@...> wrote:

ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but I turn 50

in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in my arms.

When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make muscles to

save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more muscles

from regular day to day activity. Started taking testosterone

injections about 1 year ago.

What you can take away from this is don't expect things to change over

night. Even a few months might not make much difference. For me it

took a year to start seeing some body changes.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Rich,

How long have you been doing injections and how much per week? I do 1cc

(100mg?) once a week with a 22g 1 1/2' needle. Doing the injection myself

right in the butt. Started out having my wife do it but for some reason it

doesn't hurt as much when I do it myself (hmmmm). In fact, most of the time

it almost painless. Like I mentioned before it took a year for things to start

changing. Now that I see a difference maybe I will start working out again.

Dave

Rich <caliconine@...> wrote:

Dave-

I've noticed a lot more muscle in my thighs, which is where I inject.

I was once thinking about trying injections in the biceps (as well as

other places) but I've read posts on the Meso-Rx board where a lot of

body-builders hate bicept injections. I guess if they get a charly

horse or something there, the pain throws off their training.

Rich

>

> ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but I turn

50

> in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in my

arms.

> When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make muscles

to

> save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more

muscles

> from regular day to day activity. Started taking testosterone

> injections about 1 year ago.

>

> What you can take away from this is don't expect things to change

over

> night. Even a few months might not make much difference. For me

it

> took a year to start seeing some body changes.

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi Dave-

What concentration of T are you using? If you're injecting 1cc of

200mg/cc then you'd be doing 200mg. Or with 100mg/cc you'd be doing

100mg. It should say on the vial what the concentration is. Self-

injection for me is painless for me, too. If you are the one pushing

the needle in, you have more warning if your are getting too close to

a nerve, and when actually injecting the T, you can tell how fast to

push it in by how much resistance you can feel from the muscle if its

too fast. When someone else is injecting, they might not know that

there's this backup pressure unless you tell them. Especially with a

big 22G needle. Easy to inject too fast.

I started TRT on 7/03 with Androgel (5g/day) for 3 months followed by

2 months worth of injections by my uro (400mg/month) and finally

started doing self injections of 100mg/week on 12/03. So I've been

self-injecting for just about 3 years. I started with 100mg T. cyp.

per week (using a concentration of 200mg/ml) up until around 11/05.

Due to high levels of hemoglobin/hematocrit, I lowered the dose to 80

mg/week after 11/05 to the present date. I still make attempts to run

a lower dose of 60mg/week. This might be possible if I can fine-tune

my Arimidex dose. I've already found once that arimidex can extend my

weekly injection of 80mg/week by several days without dragging.

Arimidex has been quite a med. I think if, for any reason, I have to

give up injections, I will end up relying on things like arimidex a

great deal more. It has potential.

I've got a small gym in my basement (stationary bike, treadmill,

elliptical trainer) which I haven't used in a while and really should

get back on. I wasn't trying to build up the thighs so much as I was

trying to get rid of abdominal fat. I know there are exercises for

the abs but they all say you can't spot-reduce fat, so things like a

treadmill are good for that. I was using the equipment before I

started TRT and I would practically have a " heart attack " (especially

on the ellitical); after TRT I had much more stamina and endurance.

Not only with using the gym equipment but doing simple things like

mowing the lawn. I envy you in that I wish I had started TRT when I

was 50 (I'm 61.) All the drs would say back then was " gotta exercise

more... " which was easier said than done without TRT.

Rich

> >

> > ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but I turn

> 50

> > in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in my

> arms.

> > When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make muscles

> to

> > save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more

> muscles

> > from regular day to day activity. Started taking testosterone

> > injections about 1 year ago.

> >

> > What you can take away from this is don't expect things to change

> over

> > night. Even a few months might not make much difference. For me

> it

> > took a year to start seeing some body changes.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited Try it today.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich,

Thanks for writing back, good information. What is says on the testosterone

package is " TESTOSTERONE CYP 200 MG/ML).

I was actually diagnosed around 8 years ago but took that long to get where I

am now. Had to go through a few doctors and try the ANDROGEL/ANDRODERM/TESTIM

route first. Those did not do a thing for me. I am also doing .5mg Arimidex

on MON/WED/FRI. I know what you mean about the abdominal fat, that's a tough

one. I have to remind myselt that I didn't get it over night and I won't

loose it over night.

Have you (or anyone out there) noticed any other changes?

Here are a couple for me.

I've always had a really big sweet tooth. Once I started T injections I lost

almost all my cravings for sugar. Now if I have a piece of cake I'll take 2/3

bites and I'm done. Now I will get cravings for chicken, I guess it's the

sugar vs protein thing.

Dry crusty elbows... gone.

Body hair. I've have quite a bit of hair on my fore arms and legs although I

had started loosing the hair on my legs. With the T replacement the hair came

back and then some. It's now making it's way up to the top of my arm and some

on my back. Doesn't bother me much but my wife isn't too crazy about back

hair!

Libido. Not sure how much the Testosterone alone does but the day after my T

injection I inject HCG. For a couple days after the HCG injection it's like

being a teenager. :-)

Dave

Rich <caliconine@...> wrote:

Hi Dave-

What concentration of T are you using? If you're injecting 1cc of

200mg/cc then you'd be doing 200mg. Or with 100mg/cc you'd be doing

100mg. It should say on the vial what the concentration is. Self-

injection for me is painless for me, too. If you are the one pushing

the needle in, you have more warning if your are getting too close to

a nerve, and when actually injecting the T, you can tell how fast to

push it in by how much resistance you can feel from the muscle if its

too fast. When someone else is injecting, they might not know that

there's this backup pressure unless you tell them. Especially with a

big 22G needle. Easy to inject too fast.

I started TRT on 7/03 with Androgel (5g/day) for 3 months followed by

2 months worth of injections by my uro (400mg/month) and finally

started doing self injections of 100mg/week on 12/03. So I've been

self-injecting for just about 3 years. I started with 100mg T. cyp.

per week (using a concentration of 200mg/ml) up until around 11/05.

Due to high levels of hemoglobin/hematocrit, I lowered the dose to 80

mg/week after 11/05 to the present date. I still make attempts to run

a lower dose of 60mg/week. This might be possible if I can fine-tune

my Arimidex dose. I've already found once that arimidex can extend my

weekly injection of 80mg/week by several days without dragging.

Arimidex has been quite a med. I think if, for any reason, I have to

give up injections, I will end up relying on things like arimidex a

great deal more. It has potential.

I've got a small gym in my basement (stationary bike, treadmill,

elliptical trainer) which I haven't used in a while and really should

get back on. I wasn't trying to build up the thighs so much as I was

trying to get rid of abdominal fat. I know there are exercises for

the abs but they all say you can't spot-reduce fat, so things like a

treadmill are good for that. I was using the equipment before I

started TRT and I would practically have a " heart attack " (especially

on the ellitical); after TRT I had much more stamina and endurance.

Not only with using the gym equipment but doing simple things like

mowing the lawn. I envy you in that I wish I had started TRT when I

was 50 (I'm 61.) All the drs would say back then was " gotta exercise

more... " which was easier said than done without TRT.

Rich

> >

> > ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but I turn

> 50

> > in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in my

> arms.

> > When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make muscles

> to

> > save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more

> muscles

> > from regular day to day activity. Started taking testosterone

> > injections about 1 year ago.

> >

> > What you can take away from this is don't expect things to change

> over

> > night. Even a few months might not make much difference. For me

> it

> > took a year to start seeing some body changes.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited Try it today.

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 10:02:55 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi Dave-

>What concentration of T are you using? If you're injecting 1cc of

>200mg/cc then you'd be doing 200mg. Or with 100mg/cc you'd be doing

>100mg.

I'm curious about whether the body handles .5 ml of 200 mg the same as

it does 1 ml of 100mg. I hear all the time they're the same load. But

I'm wondering if absorbtion is the same.

Has anyone seen any research on this point?

________________

" You never need an argument against the use of violence, you need an

argument for it. " Noam Chomsky

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave-

Thats curious about the sugar - I'm a type II diabetic and I still

get a craving for sweets sometimes. The thing is, in my case, T. cyp.

decreases my insulin resistance and give me almost normal glucose

readings. If I do some heavy work out, like yard work, I can get

ravenously hungry often for something sweet. I'll check my glucose

meter and the thing will read in the 60's or low 70's, which is low

for a diabetic. Almost going the other way. Also with T and diabetes,

I have to be careful of some of the meds I used to take. One time I

had a little too much sugar(birthday cake) and got a glucose reading

of around 160 which is rare for me these days. So I figured I'd take

a tablet of Glyburide, which increases the amount of insulin put out

by the pancreas. About an hour or so later, I'm sweating like a pig.

Checked the glucometer and its reading -50- and probably still going

down. So I hopped in the car and got some chocolate bars at the

corner store (well, they probably taste better than the glucose

pills.) Told my family doc about it and he finished my sentence by

saying " and you crashed, didn't you? " Sure did.

Re libido, I actually developed a lot more libido when I first

started on Androgel. It was more than I remember as a teenager, too

much for this old guy. A couple of times I actually quit the Androgel

for a day or two just to settle it down, which it did. Funny but

after 3 months on the stuff, the libido was normal and the T levels

came out lower than when I started. Weird stuff. I never did get a

repeat performance of the libido with injections. I did get a lot

more energy and stamina though.

Rich

>

> Hi Rich,

>

> Thanks for writing back, good information. What is says on the

testosterone package is " TESTOSTERONE CYP 200 MG/ML).

>

> I was actually diagnosed around 8 years ago but took that long to

get where I am now. Had to go through a few doctors and try the

ANDROGEL/ANDRODERM/TESTIM route first. Those did not do a thing for

me. I am also doing .5mg Arimidex on MON/WED/FRI. I know what you

mean about the abdominal fat, that's a tough one. I have to

remind myselt that I didn't get it over night and I won't loose it

over night.

>

> Have you (or anyone out there) noticed any other changes?

>

> Here are a couple for me.

>

> I've always had a really big sweet tooth. Once I started T

injections I lost almost all my cravings for sugar. Now if I have a

piece of cake I'll take 2/3 bites and I'm done. Now I will get

cravings for chicken, I guess it's the sugar vs protein thing.

>

> Dry crusty elbows... gone.

>

> Body hair. I've have quite a bit of hair on my fore arms and

legs although I had started loosing the hair on my legs. With the

T replacement the hair came back and then some. It's now making

it's way up to the top of my arm and some on my back. Doesn't

bother me much but my wife isn't too crazy about back hair!

>

> Libido. Not sure how much the Testosterone alone does but the

day after my T injection I inject HCG. For a couple days after the

HCG injection it's like being a teenager. :-)

>

> Dave

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder about that too. I would think the 100mg/ml would spread out

the T more - more surface area. What I don't know is if the cottonseed

or sesame oil is simply a carrier, or does it take time to be washed

away thereby contributing to the delayed action. Since they are both

the same cypionate ester they should both de-esterify at the same rate.

I can think of one advantage, though. It would be a heck of a lot

easier to measure out very small doses. And probably easier to inject

through a small needle. 200mg per ml on the other hand is fairly

concentrated, adding to the viscosity.

Rich

>

> >Hi Dave-

> >What concentration of T are you using? If you're injecting 1cc of

> >200mg/cc then you'd be doing 200mg. Or with 100mg/cc you'd be doing

> >100mg.

>

> I'm curious about whether the body handles .5 ml of 200 mg the same as

> it does 1 ml of 100mg. I hear all the time they're the same load. But

> I'm wondering if absorbtion is the same.

>

> Has anyone seen any research on this point?

>

> ________________

> " You never need an argument against the use of violence, you need an

> argument for it. " Noam Chomsky

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich,

They Glyburide you tried after eating too much cake? Don't do that

again! Keep in mind that if your body doesn't need it, taking even

oral meds equates to shooting a dose of insulin and not needing

it....except it will remain in your system for 24 hours. Your sugar

will continue to go low for up to 24 hours and needs to be monitored

every 2 hours. I see the problem pretty often in the field. Most

patients end up in the hospital over night as a precaution. It is

good you were able to manage the hypoglycemia yourself!

Hubby is type II just as you are. His glucose control has been all

but perfect since getting his testosterone level up as well. He

hasn't needed oral meds but for a very short time. I kinda sorta

twisted his arm (bad wife!) into taking his diet seriously long

before he started on testosterone. He hasn't had to struggle to stay

within norms since his T increased. Guess those metabolic syndrome

articles are telling the truth, eh?

Vickie

In , " Rich " <caliconine@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Dave-

> Thats curious about the sugar - I'm a type II diabetic and I still

> get a craving for sweets sometimes. The thing is, in my case, T.

cyp.

> decreases my insulin resistance and give me almost normal glucose

> readings. If I do some heavy work out, like yard work, I can get

> ravenously hungry often for something sweet. I'll check my glucose

> meter and the thing will read in the 60's or low 70's, which is

low

> for a diabetic. Almost going the other way. Also with T and

diabetes,

> I have to be careful of some of the meds I used to take. One time

I

> had a little too much sugar(birthday cake) and got a glucose

reading

> of around 160 which is rare for me these days. So I figured I'd

take

> a tablet of Glyburide, which increases the amount of insulin put

out

> by the pancreas. About an hour or so later, I'm sweating like a

pig.

> Checked the glucometer and its reading -50- and probably still

going

> down. So I hopped in the car and got some chocolate bars at the

> corner store (well, they probably taste better than the glucose

> pills.) Told my family doc about it and he finished my sentence by

> saying " and you crashed, didn't you? " Sure did.

>

> Re libido, I actually developed a lot more libido when I first

> started on Androgel. It was more than I remember as a teenager,

too

> much for this old guy. A couple of times I actually quit the

Androgel

> for a day or two just to settle it down, which it did. Funny but

> after 3 months on the stuff, the libido was normal and the T

levels

> came out lower than when I started. Weird stuff. I never did get a

> repeat performance of the libido with injections. I did get a lot

> more energy and stamina though.

> Rich

>

>

> >

> > Hi Rich,

> >

> > Thanks for writing back, good information. What is says on

the

> testosterone package is " TESTOSTERONE CYP 200 MG/ML).

> >

> > I was actually diagnosed around 8 years ago but took that long

to

> get where I am now. Had to go through a few doctors and try the

> ANDROGEL/ANDRODERM/TESTIM route first. Those did not do a thing

for

> me. I am also doing .5mg Arimidex on MON/WED/FRI. I know what

you

> mean about the abdominal fat, that's a tough one. I have to

> remind myselt that I didn't get it over night and I won't loose it

> over night.

> >

> > Have you (or anyone out there) noticed any other changes?

> >

> > Here are a couple for me.

> >

> > I've always had a really big sweet tooth. Once I started T

> injections I lost almost all my cravings for sugar. Now if I

have a

> piece of cake I'll take 2/3 bites and I'm done. Now I will get

> cravings for chicken, I guess it's the sugar vs protein thing.

> >

> > Dry crusty elbows... gone.

> >

> > Body hair. I've have quite a bit of hair on my fore arms and

> legs although I had started loosing the hair on my legs. With

the

> T replacement the hair came back and then some. It's now making

> it's way up to the top of my arm and some on my back. Doesn't

> bother me much but my wife isn't too crazy about back hair!

> >

> > Libido. Not sure how much the Testosterone alone does but the

> day after my T injection I inject HCG. For a couple days after

the

> HCG injection it's like being a teenager. :-)

> >

> > Dave

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rich,

Are you doing HCG also? I don't notice much increase in Libido with just

the T injection but then when I add the HCG to it, that's when all the activity

starts happening.

Dave

Rich <caliconine@...> wrote:

Hi Dave-

Thats curious about the sugar - I'm a type II diabetic and I still

get a craving for sweets sometimes. The thing is, in my case, T. cyp.

decreases my insulin resistance and give me almost normal glucose

readings. If I do some heavy work out, like yard work, I can get

ravenously hungry often for something sweet. I'll check my glucose

meter and the thing will read in the 60's or low 70's, which is low

for a diabetic. Almost going the other way. Also with T and diabetes,

I have to be careful of some of the meds I used to take. One time I

had a little too much sugar(birthday cake) and got a glucose reading

of around 160 which is rare for me these days. So I figured I'd take

a tablet of Glyburide, which increases the amount of insulin put out

by the pancreas. About an hour or so later, I'm sweating like a pig.

Checked the glucometer and its reading -50- and probably still going

down. So I hopped in the car and got some chocolate bars at the

corner store (well, they probably taste better than the glucose

pills.) Told my family doc about it and he finished my sentence by

saying " and you crashed, didn't you? " Sure did.

Re libido, I actually developed a lot more libido when I first

started on Androgel. It was more than I remember as a teenager, too

much for this old guy. A couple of times I actually quit the Androgel

for a day or two just to settle it down, which it did. Funny but

after 3 months on the stuff, the libido was normal and the T levels

came out lower than when I started. Weird stuff. I never did get a

repeat performance of the libido with injections. I did get a lot

more energy and stamina though.

Rich

>

> Hi Rich,

>

> Thanks for writing back, good information. What is says on the

testosterone package is " TESTOSTERONE CYP 200 MG/ML).

>

> I was actually diagnosed around 8 years ago but took that long to

get where I am now. Had to go through a few doctors and try the

ANDROGEL/ANDRODERM/TESTIM route first. Those did not do a thing for

me. I am also doing .5mg Arimidex on MON/WED/FRI. I know what you

mean about the abdominal fat, that's a tough one. I have to

remind myselt that I didn't get it over night and I won't loose it

over night.

>

> Have you (or anyone out there) noticed any other changes?

>

> Here are a couple for me.

>

> I've always had a really big sweet tooth. Once I started T

injections I lost almost all my cravings for sugar. Now if I have a

piece of cake I'll take 2/3 bites and I'm done. Now I will get

cravings for chicken, I guess it's the sugar vs protein thing.

>

> Dry crusty elbows... gone.

>

> Body hair. I've have quite a bit of hair on my fore arms and

legs although I had started loosing the hair on my legs. With the

T replacement the hair came back and then some. It's now making

it's way up to the top of my arm and some on my back. Doesn't

bother me much but my wife isn't too crazy about back hair!

>

> Libido. Not sure how much the Testosterone alone does but the

day after my T injection I inject HCG. For a couple days after the

HCG injection it's like being a teenager. :-)

>

> Dave

>

>

---------------------------------

Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited Try it today.

[Guest guest]

LOL! Yes ma'am...uh, no ma'am. Won't do it again. (must have been

lack of grey cells made me do it, lol)

The sweating bit was all too familiar. Among the tests they ran on me

at U of M hospital in Ann Arbor was the Insulin Tolerance Test. I

went through -three- of those suckers and each time was a wash. My

system always rebounded before the glucose level got to 40. (A side

effect of a GTT is profuse sweating and hunger.)

My type 2 diabetes is no slight matter, either. At one point, the doc

had me on three 500mg of Glucophage XR, with two of those horse pills

at nighttime. Even then, my morning fasting glucose level was

hovering around 160-180. The doc would say " what the hell are you

doing, eating in your sleep? " Exercise would momentarily drop the

glucose, but trying to exercise with low T levels is a real chore.

That's why this whole thing with T. cyp. is nothing short of amazing.

Some of those metabolic syndrome articles sometime hedge their bets,

saying exogenous T " may " improve insulin intolerance. With me,

there's no " may " about it.

Rich

> >

> > Hi Dave-

> > Thats curious about the sugar - I'm a type II diabetic and I

still

> > get a craving for sweets sometimes. The thing is, in my case, T.

> cyp.

> > decreases my insulin resistance and give me almost normal glucose

> > readings. If I do some heavy work out, like yard work, I can get

> > ravenously hungry often for something sweet. I'll check my

glucose

> > meter and the thing will read in the 60's or low 70's, which is

> low

> > for a diabetic. Almost going the other way. Also with T and

> diabetes,

> > I have to be careful of some of the meds I used to take. One time

> I

> > had a little too much sugar(birthday cake) and got a glucose

> reading

> > of around 160 which is rare for me these days. So I figured I'd

> take

> > a tablet of Glyburide, which increases the amount of insulin put

> out

> > by the pancreas. About an hour or so later, I'm sweating like a

> pig.

> > Checked the glucometer and its reading -50- and probably still

> going

> > down. So I hopped in the car and got some chocolate bars at the

> > corner store (well, they probably taste better than the glucose

> > pills.) Told my family doc about it and he finished my sentence

by

> > saying " and you crashed, didn't you? " Sure did.

> >

> > Re libido, I actually developed a lot more libido when I first

> > started on Androgel. It was more than I remember as a teenager,

> too

> > much for this old guy. A couple of times I actually quit the

> Androgel

> > for a day or two just to settle it down, which it did. Funny but

> > after 3 months on the stuff, the libido was normal and the T

> levels

> > came out lower than when I started. Weird stuff. I never did get

a

> > repeat performance of the libido with injections. I did get a lot

> > more energy and stamina though.

> > Rich

> >

[Guest guest]

Yep, just finished a vial of HCG. Nope, it doesn't do much for me

except keep testicular size normal and extended from the groin where

they're supposed to be. The odd thing about libido and T with me

seems to be that it only occurs at or near low levels of T and if

those levels increase by a substantial amount, the libido aspect just

shuts down for the most part. Go figure. I think the Androgel just

barely worked. I know my T levels are up there with injections right

now, I've got plenty of blood tests to prove it, lol.

Rich

> >

> > Hi Rich,

> >

> > Thanks for writing back, good information. What is says on the

> testosterone package is " TESTOSTERONE CYP 200 MG/ML).

> >

> > I was actually diagnosed around 8 years ago but took that long to

> get where I am now. Had to go through a few doctors and try the

> ANDROGEL/ANDRODERM/TESTIM route first. Those did not do a thing for

> me. I am also doing .5mg Arimidex on MON/WED/FRI. I know what you

> mean about the abdominal fat, that's a tough one. I have to

> remind myselt that I didn't get it over night and I won't loose it

> over night.

> >

> > Have you (or anyone out there) noticed any other changes?

> >

> > Here are a couple for me.

> >

> > I've always had a really big sweet tooth. Once I started T

> injections I lost almost all my cravings for sugar. Now if I have a

> piece of cake I'll take 2/3 bites and I'm done. Now I will get

> cravings for chicken, I guess it's the sugar vs protein thing.

> >

> > Dry crusty elbows... gone.

> >

> > Body hair. I've have quite a bit of hair on my fore arms and

> legs although I had started loosing the hair on my legs. With the

> T replacement the hair came back and then some. It's now making

> it's way up to the top of my arm and some on my back. Doesn't

> bother me much but my wife isn't too crazy about back hair!

> >

> > Libido. Not sure how much the Testosterone alone does but the

> day after my T injection I inject HCG. For a couple days after the

> HCG injection it's like being a teenager. :-)

> >

> > Dave

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited Try it today.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rich,

I'll yes yer maam...LOL!

U of M eh...I got friends in places like that!!!! Me for one!

If we aren't there for one of many clinic visits I'm bringing

someone in from somewhere. I'm going to show your posts so

he'll stop ignoring me when I remind him what excersise means to

him! Holding sex over his head never did work darnit.

Vickie

In , " Rich " <caliconine@...> wrote:

>

> LOL! Yes ma'am...uh, no ma'am. Won't do it again. (must have been

> lack of grey cells made me do it, lol)

>

> The sweating bit was all too familiar. Among the tests they ran on

me

> at U of M hospital in Ann Arbor was the Insulin Tolerance Test. I

> went through -three- of those suckers and each time was a wash. My

> system always rebounded before the glucose level got to 40. (A

side

> effect of a GTT is profuse sweating and hunger.)

>

> My type 2 diabetes is no slight matter, either. At one point, the

doc

> had me on three 500mg of Glucophage XR, with two of those horse

pills

> at nighttime. Even then, my morning fasting glucose level was

> hovering around 160-180. The doc would say " what the hell are you

> doing, eating in your sleep? " Exercise would momentarily drop the

> glucose, but trying to exercise with low T levels is a real chore.

> That's why this whole thing with T. cyp. is nothing short of

amazing.

> Some of those metabolic syndrome articles sometime hedge their

bets,

> saying exogenous T " may " improve insulin intolerance. With me,

> there's no " may " about it.

> Rich

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi Dave-

> > > Thats curious about the sugar - I'm a type II diabetic and I

> still

> > > get a craving for sweets sometimes. The thing is, in my case,

T.

> > cyp.

> > > decreases my insulin resistance and give me almost normal

glucose

> > > readings. If I do some heavy work out, like yard work, I can

get

> > > ravenously hungry often for something sweet. I'll check my

> glucose

> > > meter and the thing will read in the 60's or low 70's, which

is

> > low

> > > for a diabetic. Almost going the other way. Also with T and

> > diabetes,

> > > I have to be careful of some of the meds I used to take. One

time

> > I

> > > had a little too much sugar(birthday cake) and got a glucose

> > reading

> > > of around 160 which is rare for me these days. So I figured

I'd

> > take

> > > a tablet of Glyburide, which increases the amount of insulin

put

> > out

> > > by the pancreas. About an hour or so later, I'm sweating like

a

> > pig.

> > > Checked the glucometer and its reading -50- and probably still

> > going

> > > down. So I hopped in the car and got some chocolate bars at

the

> > > corner store (well, they probably taste better than the

glucose

> > > pills.) Told my family doc about it and he finished my

sentence

> by

> > > saying " and you crashed, didn't you? " Sure did.

> > >

> > > Re libido, I actually developed a lot more libido when I first

> > > started on Androgel. It was more than I remember as a

teenager,

> > too

> > > much for this old guy. A couple of times I actually quit the

> > Androgel

> > > for a day or two just to settle it down, which it did. Funny

but

> > > after 3 months on the stuff, the libido was normal and the T

> > levels

> > > came out lower than when I started. Weird stuff. I never did

get

> a

> > > repeat performance of the libido with injections. I did get a

lot

> > > more energy and stamina though.

> > > Rich

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

Dave, I totally agree that the muscles are important. I was muscular

throughout my life, and a serious runner, until I went downhill 10 -

15 years ago. The deterioration was serious, could not run, no

strength. To be accurate, the problem was compounded by what

eventually was diagnosed as severe sleep apnea - I have since had all

of the surgeries just so the CPAP would work for me. But, have begun

to rebuild strength. Can not run - carrying too much weight, and had

25% of meniscus removed in one knee by a surgeon who stated that the

damage had occurred because of the low testosterone. But life can be

better. One of my physicians, an expert on testosterone, noticed that

I was putting his suitcase in the car trunk and told me to remember

that he knew how old I was and so on. The old " Act Your Age " . Well,

news for him. I will be 60 next month, and the last bench press I

finished with the third set at 6 reps at 230 pounds. Act your age on

that, buddy! Regards to all, Tom

>

> ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but I turn 50

> in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in my arms.

> When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make muscles to

> save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more muscles

> from regular day to day activity. Started taking testosterone

> injections about 1 year ago.

>

> What you can take away from this is don't expect things to change over

> night. Even a few months might not make much difference. For me it

> took a year to start seeing some body changes.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Louis-

I remember you posting about having the sweats one or two days after

injecting. 1 or 2 days also corresponds to the peak of the

testosterone level for injections, and sounds like estradiol. I've

never had that reaction, or at least not to that degree where I'd

especially notice. I know you mentioned an interest in pellets, which

is among the most level dispersion rate of all the methods (outside

of natural production.) If you do get to finally try them, we'll be

curious as to how it works out. Not too many on pellets in here,

ernestnolan is the champion for this particular choice. I wonder if

they're influenced by the fact that your injection dose is a somewhat

lower dose of 150mg/2wks when they decide how many pellets to insert.

Anyway, Good Luck and let us know how it goes.

Rich

>

> hi,

>

> I have been doing TRT (injections, tried gels, no go) for 5 months.

My dose

> is presently 150 mg per two weeks.

>

> I can say that I have noticed alot of changes.

> They are:

> - no more hot sweats, literally soaked t-shirt at night

> - my muscles are comming back. I used to be rock strong at 16, it

was

> downhill from their (I had a testicle lowered at that time...hmmmm.)

> - very noticeable lately is that my clarity of thought is back, I

am not

> near as stressed at work now, I no longer take notes at meetings

and can

> remember alot more.

> - my sex drive is comming back in full form

> - my voice is lowered

>

> I believe that my dose is a bit low and will be seeing test results

with a

> uro next week (hurray!!!) I would really like to try pellets

though. I would

> also like to increase injection frequency. I use to sweat like a

pig for a

> couple of days after an injection and get drowsy. I get injections

at work and

> this made for a fun dayzzzzzzzzzz.

>

> I still have alot of back and soft tissue joint pain to deal with.

That

> said, I am very happy about things and it seems I feel better every

day.

>

> I have noticed early on that stress seams to drive my energy down,

thus I

> avoided it which is a bit hard with my job. I sure learned alot

though about

> situational management because I had to. I can measure a situation

many times

> better these days.

>

> I enjoy reading the posts and sharing experience.

>

> Louis

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tom,

Good luck on rebuilding your strength, you're only 60 yrs young! Bench

pressing 230lbs..now you have me inspired. Now that my body is actually

capable of making bigger muscles I need to start working out.

Dave

Tom <DarlingTDARLING@...> wrote:

Dave, I totally agree that the muscles are important. I was muscular

throughout my life, and a serious runner, until I went downhill 10 -

15 years ago. The deterioration was serious, could not run, no

strength. To be accurate, the problem was compounded by what

eventually was diagnosed as severe sleep apnea - I have since had all

of the surgeries just so the CPAP would work for me. But, have begun

to rebuild strength. Can not run - carrying too much weight, and had

25% of meniscus removed in one knee by a surgeon who stated that the

damage had occurred because of the low testosterone. But life can be

better. One of my physicians, an expert on testosterone, noticed that

I was putting his suitcase in the car trunk and told me to remember

that he knew how old I was and so on. The old " Act Your Age " . Well,

news for him. I will be 60 next month, and the last bench press I

finished with the third set at 6 reps at 230 pounds. Act your age on

that, buddy! Regards to all, Tom

>

> ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but I turn 50

> in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in my arms.

> When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make muscles to

> save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more muscles

> from regular day to day activity. Started taking testosterone

> injections about 1 year ago.

>

> What you can take away from this is don't expect things to change over

> night. Even a few months might not make much difference. For me it

> took a year to start seeing some body changes.

>

---------------------------------

Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

Louis,

I also have the back/joint and soft tissue pain to deal with. Phil mentioned

here that he got a lot of relief from that after starting T injections but

unfortunately that is not something that has not gotten better for me. Maybe in

time it will improve.

Thanks for shareing the changes you have noticed. Reading these post keep

me inspired to keep going.

Dave

louislarocque@... wrote:

hi,

I have been doing TRT (injections, tried gels, no go) for 5 months. My dose

is presently 150 mg per two weeks.

I can say that I have noticed alot of changes.

They are:

- no more hot sweats, literally soaked t-shirt at night

- my muscles are comming back. I used to be rock strong at 16, it was

downhill from their (I had a testicle lowered at that time...hmmmm.)

- very noticeable lately is that my clarity of thought is back, I am not

near as stressed at work now, I no longer take notes at meetings and can

remember alot more.

- my sex drive is comming back in full form

- my voice is lowered

I believe that my dose is a bit low and will be seeing test results with a

uro next week (hurray!!!) I would really like to try pellets though. I would

also like to increase injection frequency. I use to sweat like a pig for a

couple of days after an injection and get drowsy. I get injections at work and

this made for a fun dayzzzzzzzzzz.

I still have alot of back and soft tissue joint pain to deal with. That

said, I am very happy about things and it seems I feel better every day.

I have noticed early on that stress seams to drive my energy down, thus I

avoided it which is a bit hard with my job. I sure learned alot though about

situational management because I had to. I can measure a situation many times

better these days.

I enjoy reading the posts and sharing experience.

Louis

[Guest guest]

hmmm...dry crusty elbows, they've gone on me as well, I never associated

that with anything, other than perhaps thyroid issues.

no help with sweet tooth here, it's still 100% strong. I **LOVE** chocolate

my libido doesn't seem to cycle at all with cyp or hcg injections, but I do

both every three days

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Brown

Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 6:20 AM

Subject: Re: Re: I have muscles!

Hi Rich,

Thanks for writing back, good information. What is says on the testosterone

package is " TESTOSTERONE CYP 200 MG/ML).

I was actually diagnosed around 8 years ago but took that long to get where

I am now. Had to go through a few doctors and try the

ANDROGEL/ANDRODERM/TESTIM route first. Those did not do a thing for me. I am

also doing .5mg Arimidex on MON/WED/FRI. I know what you mean about the

abdominal fat, that's a tough one. I have to remind myselt that I didn't get

it over night and I won't loose it over night.

Have you (or anyone out there) noticed any other changes?

Here are a couple for me.

I've always had a really big sweet tooth. Once I started T injections I lost

almost all my cravings for sugar. Now if I have a piece of cake I'll take

2/3 bites and I'm done. Now I will get cravings for chicken, I guess it's

the sugar vs protein thing.

Dry crusty elbows... gone.

Body hair. I've have quite a bit of hair on my fore arms and legs although I

had started loosing the hair on my legs. With the T replacement the hair

came back and then some. It's now making it's way up to the top of my arm

and some on my back. Doesn't bother me much but my wife isn't too crazy

about back hair!

Libido. Not sure how much the Testosterone alone does but the day after my T

injection I inject HCG. For a couple days after the HCG injection it's like

being a teenager. :-)

Dave

Rich <caliconine (DOT) <mailto:caliconine%40> com> wrote:

Hi Dave-

What concentration of T are you using? If you're injecting 1cc of

200mg/cc then you'd be doing 200mg. Or with 100mg/cc you'd be doing

100mg. It should say on the vial what the concentration is. Self-

injection for me is painless for me, too. If you are the one pushing

the needle in, you have more warning if your are getting too close to

a nerve, and when actually injecting the T, you can tell how fast to

push it in by how much resistance you can feel from the muscle if its

too fast. When someone else is injecting, they might not know that

there's this backup pressure unless you tell them. Especially with a

big 22G needle. Easy to inject too fast.

I started TRT on 7/03 with Androgel (5g/day) for 3 months followed by

2 months worth of injections by my uro (400mg/month) and finally

started doing self injections of 100mg/week on 12/03. So I've been

self-injecting for just about 3 years. I started with 100mg T. cyp.

per week (using a concentration of 200mg/ml) up until around 11/05.

Due to high levels of hemoglobin/hematocrit, I lowered the dose to 80

mg/week after 11/05 to the present date. I still make attempts to run

a lower dose of 60mg/week. This might be possible if I can fine-tune

my Arimidex dose. I've already found once that arimidex can extend my

weekly injection of 80mg/week by several days without dragging.

Arimidex has been quite a med. I think if, for any reason, I have to

give up injections, I will end up relying on things like arimidex a

great deal more. It has potential.

I've got a small gym in my basement (stationary bike, treadmill,

elliptical trainer) which I haven't used in a while and really should

get back on. I wasn't trying to build up the thighs so much as I was

trying to get rid of abdominal fat. I know there are exercises for

the abs but they all say you can't spot-reduce fat, so things like a

treadmill are good for that. I was using the equipment before I

started TRT and I would practically have a " heart attack " (especially

on the ellitical); after TRT I had much more stamina and endurance.

Not only with using the gym equipment but doing simple things like

mowing the lawn. I envy you in that I wish I had started TRT when I

was 50 (I'm 61.) All the drs would say back then was " gotta exercise

more... " which was easier said than done without TRT.

Rich

> >

> > ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but I turn

> 50

> > in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in my

> arms.

> > When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make muscles

> to

> > save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more

> muscles

> > from regular day to day activity. Started taking testosterone

> > injections about 1 year ago.

> >

> > What you can take away from this is don't expect things to change

> over

> > night. Even a few months might not make much difference. For me

> it

> > took a year to start seeing some body changes.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited Try it today.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Androgel and libido! Yes. When I was on 5g androgel my libido went

through the roof. I was having sex and/or masturbating 5 or 6 times PER

DAY. It was great, at first, but then the AG started elevating E2 and I got

mood swings and crying fits in proportion to the libido.

________________________________

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Rich

Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 9:51 AM

Subject: Re: I have muscles!

Re libido, I actually developed a lot more libido when I first

started on Androgel. It was more than I remember as a teenager, too

much for this old guy. A couple of times I actually quit the

Androgel

for a day or two just to settle it down, which it did. Funny but

after 3 months on the stuff, the libido was normal and the T levels

came out lower than when I started. Weird stuff. I never did get a

repeat performance of the libido with injections. I did get a lot

more energy and stamina though.

Rich

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I started TRT and had a fantastic result in a couple of weeks.

Erections were very easy and if interrupted, I could start again easily.

This went on and gradually faded in about 6 weeks. I thought it was

because the T level no longer being as high but when I got the second

set of pellets after 4 months, I figured it would happen again, WRONG.

I was sick and when I contacted the doctor regarding this effect, he

said it was due to my level of T gradually ramping up to a high stable

level after a couple of months. He said once my T level stabalizes the

effect goes away.

I thought I had cured my ED and it returned. It was diagnosed as age

related ED back before the pills. Nothing was available at that time

except trimix which I found out about in a book in the library. I went

to Dr. Irwin Goldstein, Boston Univ. and after 3 trips I had a cure I

am still using since 1992.

ernestnolan

>

> Androgel and libido! Yes. When I was on 5g androgel my libido went

> through the roof. I was having sex and/or masturbating 5 or 6 times PER

> DAY. It was great, at first, but then the AG started elevating E2

and I got

> mood swings and crying fits in proportion to the libido.

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Rich

> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 9:51 AM

>

> Subject: Re: I have muscles!

>

>

> Re libido, I actually developed a lot more libido when I first

> started on Androgel. It was more than I remember as a teenager, too

> much for this old guy. A couple of times I actually quit the

> Androgel

> for a day or two just to settle it down, which it did. Funny but

> after 3 months on the stuff, the libido was normal and the T levels

> came out lower than when I started. Weird stuff. I never did get a

> repeat performance of the libido with injections. I did get a lot

> more energy and stamina though.

> Rich

>

[Guest guest]

What the heck, I posted a photo taken 3-4 years ago, after starting on

T. Remember, I work hard. I posed the photo because I was

corresponding with women, at that time in Russia, whose experience was

that any guy over 50 would be a heavy drinker, and almost dead. I

actually changed out of a business suit and did this when I saw the

prop and realized that I could make the visual point. Now I have put

on weight and that needs to come down. Tom

> >

> > ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but I turn 50

> > in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in my arms.

> > When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make muscles to

> > save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more muscles

> > from regular day to day activity. Started taking testosterone

> > injections about 1 year ago.

> >

> > What you can take away from this is don't expect things to change

over

> > night. Even a few months might not make much difference. For me it

> > took a year to start seeing some body changes.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Whats with all that hair on the top of your head (unless thats a

rug.) And I assume you're not talking about the stereotypical (from

my narrow point of view) Russian women who can do the work equivalent

of a tractor and that all three of their body dimensions are the same

number. ;~)

Rich

> > >

> > > ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but I

turn 50

> > > in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in my

arms.

> > > When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make

muscles to

> > > save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more

muscles

> > > from regular day to day activity. Started taking testosterone

> > > injections about 1 year ago.

> > >

> > > What you can take away from this is don't expect things to

change

> over

> > > night. Even a few months might not make much difference. For me

it

> > > took a year to start seeing some body changes.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call

rates.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Geez, and I have been concerned about how little is left - the hair is

primarily around the sides; lost a lot on top. Ah, there are some

lovely Russian ladies to meet via internet or in person, with good

figures and wonderful educations. Also Chinese. And most recently,

filipinas, probably current favorite. Tom

> > > >

> > > > ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but I

> turn 50

> > > > in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in my

> arms.

> > > > When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make

> muscles to

> > > > save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more

> muscles

> > > > from regular day to day activity. Started taking testosterone

> > > > injections about 1 year ago.

> > > >

> > > > What you can take away from this is don't expect things to

> change

> > over

> > > > night. Even a few months might not make much difference. For me

> it

> > > > took a year to start seeing some body changes.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call

> rates.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yeah, well you've got a lot more head hair than yours truly. When

people see me, they either think " thats the worse comb-over I've ever

seen in the world " , or " Look, give it up and just shave off

whatevers left. " (BTW, finesteride, whether in the form of minoxidyl

or proscar, does absolute -squat- for growing hair on my head.)

I was kidding of course about the Russian women. I remember one time

back when I was still working, one of the single guys brought in a

thin book or leaflet of some kind of dating service featuring Russian

women with photos and stats and we were passing it around. And they

were good looking. Don't know how legit it all was, you always think

theres a catch to it.

And just to show I have no shame, I've put up a photo of me

labelled " Rich (before) " as the eternal optomist who believes things

can improve. The background in the photo, which looks a lot better

than the fat guy standing in the middle, is the beautiful Wamplers

Lake in State Park in Irish Hills, Mich. What I really want to

do is put up a series of photos showing how I inject in the thigh.

That'll be next.

Rich

BTW there really is some muscle in that gut. Its hard to see it with

all the fat, but its there.

> > > > >

> > > > > ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but

I

> > turn 50

> > > > > in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in

my

> > arms.

> > > > > When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make

> > muscles to

> > > > > save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more

> > muscles

> > > > > from regular day to day activity. Started taking

testosterone

> > > > > injections about 1 year ago.

> > > > >

> > > > > What you can take away from this is don't expect things to

> > change

> > > over

> > > > > night. Even a few months might not make much difference.

For me

> > it

> > > > > took a year to start seeing some body changes.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone

call

> > rates.

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich, no offense taken - in fact, last year I tried a " system " or

hairpiece and it was a pain. The photo that I just added to the album

was taken last year and catches the perfect match of the perfect hair

that belongs to me only in the sense that I paid for it. Too much

trouble and always distorting my schedule, especially for exercise.

So, I asked my daughter and a local nurse friend and they both voted

that I should burn the thing. Gone. Of course, this is a shameless

attempt to show off - Marie has nothing fake about her, well,

maybe the hair color, whatever it was that time. The photo was taken

in a mall in Makati/Manila, Philippines. Seriously, right now I

started one of the HCG drugs and I think that it may already confer

benefits after a couple of months. I have never read any distinct

description of what HCG can do other than " well being. " Regards,

Tom

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ok...that's probably not too exciting news for anybody but

> I

> > > turn 50

> > > > > > in a couple months and it's the first time I had muscles in

> my

> > > arms.

> > > > > > When I would work out in my 20's and 30's I couldn't make

> > > muscles to

> > > > > > save my life. I haven't been working out but just got more

> > > muscles

> > > > > > from regular day to day activity. Started taking

> testosterone

> > > > > > injections about 1 year ago.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What you can take away from this is don't expect things to

> > > change

> > > > over

> > > > > > night. Even a few months might not make much difference.

> For me

> > > it

> > > > > > took a year to start seeing some body changes.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ---------------------------------

> > > > > Cheap Talk? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone

> call

> > > rates.

> > > > >

> > > > >