Re: Charlie Horse Thigh Injections

[Guest guest]

Hi there

From my own experience and in speaking with my GPs when you have decided to aim

the

needle and syringe into you thigh / leg you then need to push in quickly and

with force which

minimises pain - sometimes painless. It also reduces blood drops.

Once in the leg/thigh then at your leisure draw back to see that no blood is

there from a

blood vessel and inject slowly.

The main problem is ensuring you go deep enough so as to penetrate muscle and

not to

inject into fat if possible where ever you inject.

Also ensuring the muscle is relaxed is very important. Even have a bath to warm

up area

prior to injecting. I have never needed to use ice or similar. The trick is to

pick up courage

and to go quickly into the skin, fat and muscle not slowly.

Someone asked what its like if you hit a nerve. Well so painful you pull it out

straight away

and start somewhere else or leave it for the next day :-)

Hope this helps?

On 1 Jan 2007 at 19:11, louislarocque@... wrote:

> Can anyone help me out with my injections in the thigh? I have had three done

> on the thigh and it is quite painful the following three days. It feels like

> a real good charlie horse bruise in the thigh for the next couple of days.

>

> The last one that I did I used a 3/4 " long, 25 guage needle to inject. I took

> my time to push it in so I thought. I injected .3 ml of test-enanthate. The

> leg was horizontal and I was in a chair with the quads relaxed. It bruised

> after a few days.

>

> I did notice that the muscle jumps a bit as I push the needle in. I do not go

> too fast. Could I be going in too slow? I did not notice any red immediately

> after. I iced it after about 20 minutes because it started to smart quite a

> bit. The ice helped, and I could sleep.

>

> I seem to have no issues in the rear end.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Same thing happened to me. This is what the Doc said. Needle is too

short. Use 1.5 Inch Minimum to inject IM in thigh and buttock. I feel

your pain buddy. What you did is injected the " T " into the Fascia

between the muscle and the fat layer in your leg therefore " spreading

apart " that fascia (connective tissue). Use longer needles and you

will feel better.

Dave

>

> Can anyone help me out with my injections in the thigh? I have had

three done

> on the thigh and it is quite painful the following three days. It

feels like

> a real good charlie horse bruise in the thigh for the next couple

of days.

>

> The last one that I did I used a 3/4 " long, 25 guage needle to

inject. I took

> my time to push it in so I thought. I injected .3 ml of test-

enanthate. The

> leg was horizontal and I was in a chair with the quads relaxed. It

bruised

> after a few days.

>

> I did notice that the muscle jumps a bit as I push the needle in. I

do not go

> too fast. Could I be going in too slow? I did not notice any red

immediately

> after. I iced it after about 20 minutes because it started to smart

quite a

> bit. The ice helped, and I could sleep.

>

> I seem to have no issues in the rear end.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dam that for me is a big ass needle I use 27g 1ml x 1/2 " LG. needles it takes a

little time to come out of the vile so I pull the plunger all the way down and

hold it. Takes about a min. to get .5mls if T in the needle. I then shoot into

my thigh sitting down in chair. I shoot just off the top of my thigh. Beleve

me it dose not hurt at all.

Phil

louislarocque@... wrote:

Can anyone help me out with my injections in the thigh? I have had

three done

on the thigh and it is quite painful the following three days. It feels like

a real good charlie horse bruise in the thigh for the next couple of days.

The last one that I did I used a 3/4 " long, 25 guage needle to inject. I took

my time to push it in so I thought. I injected .3 ml of test-enanthate. The

leg was horizontal and I was in a chair with the quads relaxed. It bruised

after a few days.

I did notice that the muscle jumps a bit as I push the needle in. I do not go

too fast. Could I be going in too slow? I did not notice any red immediately

after. I iced it after about 20 minutes because it started to smart quite a

bit. The ice helped, and I could sleep.

I seem to have no issues in the rear end.

[Guest guest]

Louis,

Ouch! IM injections should not be so painful even with a 25g. This

sounds strange but it's the only way I know to paint a picture.

You did the relaxed part but yes, you are going too slow with the

needle. It's more like a quick harpoon into the site. If you isolate

a 3 inch area between your first finger and thumb to hold the skin

just firm, not tight, not pinched and not pushed in, you won't have

a problem I'll bet. Draw back a tiny bit to see if there is a blood

return. If no, then inject the med. at a moderate rate. 2-3 seconds

is about all you need to take with .3ml. Hold a small amount of

pressure at the site after you withdraw the needle for several

seconds using a cotton ball, gauze or a clean white tissue. The

alcohol wipe may sting and cause a little bleeding. Hint...relax

your leg, foot extended out front a little. This will further allow

the muscles to relax. Good Luck.

Vickie

In , louislarocque@... wrote:

>

> Can anyone help me out with my injections in the thigh? I have had

three done

> on the thigh and it is quite painful the following three days. It

feels like

> a real good charlie horse bruise in the thigh for the next couple

of days.

>

> The last one that I did I used a 3/4 " long, 25 guage needle to

inject. I took

> my time to push it in so I thought. I injected .3 ml of test-

enanthate. The

> leg was horizontal and I was in a chair with the quads relaxed. It

bruised

> after a few days.

>

> I did notice that the muscle jumps a bit as I push the needle in.

I do not go

> too fast. Could I be going in too slow? I did not notice any red

immediately

> after. I iced it after about 20 minutes because it started to

smart quite a

> bit. The ice helped, and I could sleep.

>

> I seem to have no issues in the rear end.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know exactly what you're talking about. And the key for me was to

shoot in the upper half of the leg. If I inject anywhere below the

midpoint (the midpoint between my hip joint and my knee), then I

usually get the muscle soreness in about 24 hours, lasting for about 2

days. If I inject a little above the midpoint, then there's no

delayed muscle soreness - although it may hurt a little shortly after

the injection, but that goes away quickly.

I use a 29 gauge 1/2 " needle into the thigh twice per week, similar to

the way Phil does it. I'm a very thin guy so I feel that even a 1/2 "

needle is getting into my muscle. Blood tests confirm that it's

working, and there's never a lump like you might get with a subQ

injection.

Eugene

[Guest guest]

My 2-cents worth here: Try injecting higehr up the leg, closer to the

center point between the hip bone and knee joint...and on the side of the

thigh, not the top. When I go too close to the knee, I get a bruise/charlie

horse. My speculation is that there's less muscle lower, and therefore the

injection and fluid is more invasive.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of atoplesscouple

Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 5:40 PM

Subject: Re: Charlie Horse Thigh Injections

Same thing happened to me. This is what the Doc said. Needle is too

short. Use 1.5 Inch Minimum to inject IM in thigh and buttock. I feel

your pain buddy. What you did is injected the " T " into the Fascia

between the muscle and the fat layer in your leg therefore " spreading

apart " that fascia (connective tissue). Use longer needles and you

will feel better.

Dave

>

> Can anyone help me out with my injections in the thigh? I have had

three done

> on the thigh and it is quite painful the following three days. It

feels like

> a real good charlie horse bruise in the thigh for the next couple

of days.

>

> The last one that I did I used a 3/4 " long, 25 guage needle to

inject. I took

> my time to push it in so I thought. I injected .3 ml of test-

enanthate. The

> leg was horizontal and I was in a chair with the quads relaxed. It

bruised

> after a few days.

>

> I did notice that the muscle jumps a bit as I push the needle in. I

do not go

> too fast. Could I be going in too slow? I did not notice any red

immediately

> after. I iced it after about 20 minutes because it started to smart

quite a

> bit. The ice helped, and I could sleep.

>

> I seem to have no issues in the rear end.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes it is not so small.

I get it in the butt all the time with no pain.

The ladies that give it to me told me that this was the smallest that they

could get. I will get me a finer needle.

thanks

[Guest guest]

Vickie,

I did go slow with it. My leg was extended and I was relaxed so I thought.

I will have to practice my harpooning.

Thanks

[Guest guest]

I checked the needle and it is a 25mm long which is an inch.

I will have to have a stiff drink to put in anything bigger I think. I can

pull on the skin and I pinch 1/4 inch at best. My legs are very lean and are a

good size.

This happened three times at three different spots. Do yo really think that

this layer was hit each time?

Louis

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the feedback.

A smaller needle sounds even better. I am lean and may get away with a short

needle.

Louis

[Guest guest]

You don't want to pinch up the skin for an IM injection.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of louislarocque@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 2:46 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Charlie Horse Thigh Injections

I checked the needle and it is a 25mm long which is an inch.

I will have to have a stiff drink to put in anything bigger I think. I can

pull on the skin and I pinch 1/4 inch at best. My legs are very lean and are

a

good size.

This happened three times at three different spots. Do yo really think that

this layer was hit each time?

Louis

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave / Louis

Obviously almost all of us here are not medically qualified and so we have to be

careful to

distinguish between what we like to do / prefer to do and what is sound practice

or medically

recommended.

I attended a London teaching hospital a few weeks ago to have blood tests and a

teaching

hospital where a whole ward is just for endocrine patients and where blood

samples are

tested near to the ward to minimise delays in analysis. I asked the Staff nurses

near me how

they would inject intramuscularly and both experienced staff nurses used to

injecting the oily

hormones said pinch the skin .

This allows the needle to penetrate through the fatty layers into the muscle.

The problem

with injecting into fat is at least 2 fold (i) The testosterone is less easily

absorbed and (ii) E2

conversion is higher. Guys like Phil who do Sub Q are also taking meds for E2

and using

long term quantities they have found right for them.

I note Louis' comments and add: Due to the Pituitary illness I have again

increased in

weight and I am too fat in fact double my usual normal size and I find a needle

greater than

25mm is needed so as to penetrate into muscle and inject the caster oil used in

the

Testosterone Enanthate. Louis is quite correct in my opinion and when I lose

weight I have

less fat to pinch and need less needle length to penetrate the muscle.

I also agree with Phil on the sighting of the injection.

Hope this helps?

Kind regards,

On 2 Jan 2007 at 19:06, Dave wrote:

> You don't want to pinch up the skin for an IM injection.

>

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of louislarocque@...

> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 2:46 PM

>

> Subject: Re: Re: Charlie Horse Thigh Injections

>

>

>

> I checked the needle and it is a 25mm long which is an inch.

>

> I will have to have a stiff drink to put in anything bigger I think. I can

> pull on the skin and I pinch 1/4 inch at best. My legs are very lean and are

> a

> good size.

>

> This happened three times at three different spots. Do yo really think that

> this layer was hit each time?

>

>

> Louis

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I second the " don't pinch your skin " ... I forgot to mention if you

warm up the T in a heating pad for a few min while you prepare your

shot it makes the T flow a bit easier in to the muscle. Try 1.5 "

Pins. I I sure you will like them.

Dave

>

> You don't want to pinch up the skin for an IM injection.

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

[mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of louislarocque@...

> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 2:46 PM

>

> Subject: Re: Re: Charlie Horse Thigh Injections

>

>

>

> I checked the needle and it is a 25mm long which is an inch.

>

> I will have to have a stiff drink to put in anything bigger I

think. I can

> pull on the skin and I pinch 1/4 inch at best. My legs are very

lean and are

> a

> good size.

>

> This happened three times at three different spots. Do yo really

think that

> this layer was hit each time?

>

>

> Louis

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

But ,

I'll wager almost all of us in here that are not medically trained

professionals have had a medically trained professional teach us how to give

the injections, have observed when we are given injections, and have read

the many different sites (both medical and steroid user based) on injection

techniques.

Perhaps, with the phrase " pinch the skin " we are not talking about the same

thing. I almost took Vickie to task for her comment on pinching the skin

until I realized I had probably misread her technique.

If by pinching the skin, you mean pinch up some skin to the side and away

from the injection site, thereby taughtening the skin at the injection

site....go for it. That's essentially the same as the ztrack method.

If by pinching the skin, you mean pinch up a layer of skin, drawing it away

from the subcutaneous tissues and fat, and then inject into the pinch

area,,,,wrong....that is how you do subq injections. The whole idea there

is to make it more difficult to get into the muscle and ensure you only go

subq. And just think about it, you're giving the needle a further distance

to travel to get into the muscle, thereby requiring a longer needle. Surely

that is not desirable.

Hope that clears things up.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Randle

Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 9:57 PM

Dave; ; Louislarocque@...

Subject: RE: Re: Charlie Horse Thigh Injections

Hi Dave / Louis

Obviously almost all of us here are not medically qualified and so we have

to be careful to

distinguish between what we like to do / prefer to do and what is sound

practice or medically

recommended.

I attended a London teaching hospital a few weeks ago to have blood tests

and a teaching

hospital where a whole ward is just for endocrine patients and where blood

samples are

tested near to the ward to minimise delays in analysis. I asked the Staff

nurses near me how

they would inject intramuscularly and both experienced staff nurses used to

injecting the oily

hormones said pinch the skin .

This allows the needle to penetrate through the fatty layers into the

muscle. The problem

with injecting into fat is at least 2 fold (i) The testosterone is less

easily absorbed and (ii) E2

conversion is higher. Guys like Phil who do Sub Q are also taking meds for

E2 and using

long term quantities they have found right for them.

I note Louis' comments and add: Due to the Pituitary illness I have again

increased in

weight and I am too fat in fact double my usual normal size and I find a

needle greater than

25mm is needed so as to penetrate into muscle and inject the caster oil used

in the

Testosterone Enanthate. Louis is quite correct in my opinion and when I lose

weight I have

less fat to pinch and need less needle length to penetrate the muscle.

I also agree with Phil on the sighting of the injection.

Hope this helps?

Kind regards,

On 2 Jan 2007 at 19:06, Dave wrote:

> You don't want to pinch up the skin for an IM injection.

>

>

> _____

>

> From: @ <mailto: %40>

[mailto: @

<mailto: %40> ]

> On Behalf Of louislarocque@ <mailto:louislarocque%40aol.com> aol.com

> Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 2:46 PM

> @ <mailto: %40>

> Subject: Re: Re: Charlie Horse Thigh Injections

>

>

>

> I checked the needle and it is a 25mm long which is an inch.

>

> I will have to have a stiff drink to put in anything bigger I think. I can

> pull on the skin and I pinch 1/4 inch at best. My legs are very lean and

are

> a

> good size.

>

> This happened three times at three different spots. Do yo really think

that

> this layer was hit each time?

>

>

> Louis

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>If by pinching the skin, you mean pinch up some skin to the side and

>away

>from the injection site, thereby taughtening the skin at the injection

>site....go for it. That's essentially the same as the ztrack method.

Voila, Dave!

On 3 Jan 2007 at 6:14, Dave wrote:

> But ,

>

> I'll wager almost all of us in here that are not medically trained

> professionals have had a medically trained professional teach us how to give

> the injections, have observed when we are given injections, and have read

> the many different sites (both medical and steroid user based) on injection

> techniques.

>

> Perhaps, with the phrase " pinch the skin " we are not talking about the same

> thing. I almost took Vickie to task for her comment on pinching the skin

> until I realized I had probably misread her technique.

>

> If by pinching the skin, you mean pinch up some skin to the side and away

> from the injection site, thereby taughtening the skin at the injection

> site....go for it. That's essentially the same as the ztrack method.

>

> If by pinching the skin, you mean pinch up a layer of skin, drawing it away

> from the subcutaneous tissues and fat, and then inject into the pinch

> area,,,,wrong....that is how you do subq injections. The whole idea there

> is to make it more difficult to get into the muscle and ensure you only go

> subq. And just think about it, you're giving the needle a further distance

> to travel to get into the muscle, thereby requiring a longer needle. Surely

> that is not desirable.

>

> Hope that clears things up.

>

>

> _____

[Guest guest]

Try this website. Will give you some visual tips to assist you in

your IM shots.

http://www.spotinjections.com/index3.htm

Dave

>

> > But ,

> >

> > I'll wager almost all of us in here that are not medically trained

> > professionals have had a medically trained professional teach us

how to give

> > the injections, have observed when we are given injections, and

have read

> > the many different sites (both medical and steroid user based) on

injection

> > techniques.

> >

> > Perhaps, with the phrase " pinch the skin " we are not talking

about the same

> > thing. I almost took Vickie to task for her comment on pinching

the skin

> > until I realized I had probably misread her technique.

> >

> > If by pinching the skin, you mean pinch up some skin to the side

and away

> > from the injection site, thereby taughtening the skin at the

injection

> > site....go for it. That's essentially the same as the ztrack

method.

> >

> > If by pinching the skin, you mean pinch up a layer of skin,

drawing it away

> > from the subcutaneous tissues and fat, and then inject into the

pinch

> > area,,,,wrong....that is how you do subq injections. The whole

idea there

> > is to make it more difficult to get into the muscle and ensure

you only go

> > subq. And just think about it, you're giving the needle a

further distance

> > to travel to get into the muscle, thereby requiring a longer

needle. Surely

> > that is not desirable.

> >

> > Hope that clears things up.

> >

> >

> > _____

>

>

>

>