Re: starting the journey

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

> Yesterday I had an annual routine checkup with my urologist (who is a pretty

young guy and fairly open to discussion and concerns,) So after the usual exam I

brought up the size issue and testosterone levels and hypogonadism. I should

mention also that at age 50, I gained a lot of weight around my belly (I have

always been overwieght but never with a pot belly till then) and also exhibited

symptoms of anxiety and depression as well as lethargy. I am on mds for anxiety

and depression which my shrink says must be chemical (being hte well adjusted

person that I am LOL)

You should get an E2 test also. This sounds like classic high E2

levels.

[Guest guest]

E2 is what? What makes it classic? I would like to be able to take this back to

my Dr

Thanks.

Mike

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

> Yesterday I had an annual routine checkup with my urologist (who is a pretty

young guy and fairly open to discussion and concerns,) So after the usual exam I

brought up the size issue and testosterone levels and hypogonadism. I should

mention also that at age 50, I gained a lot of weight around my belly (I have

always been overwieght but never with a pot belly till then) and also exhibited

symptoms of anxiety and depression as well as lethargy. I am on mds for anxiety

and depression which my shrink says must be chemical (being hte well adjusted

person that I am LOL)

You should get an E2 test also. This sounds like classic high E2

levels.

JewishBodybuilders/

You don't have to be Jewish to join the Jewish Bodybuilders group!This

group is for MEN and WOMEN to post info and pix about the sport of bodybuilding

and of Jewish Bodybuilders! (Warning: We often go off topic but we try to have

fun doing it!).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

https://esite.uahc.org/edonations2/mainpage.aspx

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I had depression and anxiety due to low " T " . I was told to go to a shrink but I

didn't. The chemical imbalance was low " T " , not seratonin which is usually for

clinical depression.

I don't know if you can test for seratonin to determine clinical depression.

My doctor (I switched doctors by this time) recommended I stay on

anti-depressants for at least a year just in case I had clinical depression, or

low seratonin.

I'll bet the shrink may not be aware of the connection of these symptoms and

hypogonadism. This was certainly the case in my behalf as I began to see my

mental condition degrade into something unrecognizable.

" T " injections took care of me. Now just an occasional headache, that's it.

Getting adjusted to injectable " T " is another matter. You may struggle with

withdrawal symptoms for a while thinking the cure is worse than the problem. I

certainly did. It took time to get adjusted but it all finally came around.

Good luck and keep us posted.

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

> Yesterday I had an annual routine checkup with my urologist (who is a pretty

young guy and fairly open to discussion and concerns,) So after the usual exam I

brought up the size issue and testosterone levels and hypogonadism. I should

mention also that at age 50, I gained a lot of weight around my belly (I have

always been overwieght but never with a pot belly till then) and also exhibited

symptoms of anxiety and depression as well as lethargy. I am on mds for anxiety

and depression which my shrink says must be chemical (being hte well adjusted

person that I am LOL)

You should get an E2 test also. This sounds like classic high E2

levels.

---------------------------------

Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.

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[Guest guest]

I had depression and anxiety due to low " T " . I was told to go to a shrink but I

didn't. The chemical imbalance was low " T " , not seratonin which is usually for

clinical depression.

I don't know if you can test for seratonin to determine clinical depression.

My doctor (I switched doctors by this time) recommended I stay on

anti-depressants for at least a year just in case I had clinical depression, or

low seratonin.

I'll bet the shrink may not be aware of the connection of these symptoms and

hypogonadism. This was certainly the case in my behalf as I began to see my

mental condition degrade into something unrecognizable.

" T " injections took care of me. Now just an occasional headache, that's it.

Getting adjusted to injectable " T " is another matter. You may struggle with

withdrawal symptoms for a while thinking the cure is worse than the problem. I

certainly did. It took time to get adjusted but it all finally came around.

Good luck and keep us posted.

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

> Yesterday I had an annual routine checkup with my urologist (who is a pretty

young guy and fairly open to discussion and concerns,) So after the usual exam I

brought up the size issue and testosterone levels and hypogonadism. I should

mention also that at age 50, I gained a lot of weight around my belly (I have

always been overwieght but never with a pot belly till then) and also exhibited

symptoms of anxiety and depression as well as lethargy. I am on mds for anxiety

and depression which my shrink says must be chemical (being hte well adjusted

person that I am LOL)

You should get an E2 test also. This sounds like classic high E2

levels.

---------------------------------

Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,

photos & more.

---------------------------------

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lay it on us.

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike,

If you do this it will take for ever to find out what is wrong. I find it

hard to believe any health care plain would get up set ordering the proper tests

you need done.

Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are the

tests you need done and why. A lot of men get all of these tests done no

problem. I can't help but think your Dr. stands to make a lot of money doing

these tests his way.

Mike S <fiftiesmuscles@...> wrote:

I have been a " lurker " in this group for a number of months and I

really appreciate all the frank discussion and information. I have finally

started to take action on my concerns and would like to share my story and would

welcome any advice and or other feedback.

I had an undescended testicle as a child . Ultimately, it came down after a

series of injections (testosterone???) and possiblt some oral meds but I was a

kid so I really don't know what it was.

I have always been small. For a number of years this bothered me emotionally and

socially but I got over that and am happilly married! So nothing I say abot size

shold be interpreted as insecuriy, but after living half a century with these

issues and to finally find out that there is a name for it and that it is a

condition that is shared by others leads me to want to investigate causes and

treatments!

Yesterday I had an annual routine checkup with my urologist (who is a pretty

young guy and fairly open to discussion and concerns,) So after the usual exam I

brought up the size issue and testosterone levels and hypogonadism. I should

mention also that at age 50, I gained a lot of weight around my belly (I have

always been overwieght but never with a pot belly till then) and also exhibited

symptoms of anxiety and depression as well as lethargy. I am on mds for anxiety

and depression which my shrink says must be chemical (being hte well adjusted

person that I am LOL)

The uroligists first reaction was " Hey, those symptoms could be testosterone

related but also caused by a zillion other things. " But I assured him that I

knew that I am not a Dr and I am not trying to self-diagnose, but I have these

concerns and he was supportinve in helping me get some answers. He did say that

he would guess that I was not suffering from hypogonadism because, he said,

there are certain physical traits when one has that, such as lack of body hair

(I am very hairy), pale translucent looking skin and other things.

He examined my testicles and told me the right one was atrophic (that is the one

that was the late desender) but that the left one was normal size. He also said

my penis was normal size. Now they may be normal compared to clinical averages

but I know just from seeing other guys in the locker room that they are small.

Anyway, he order a test for free testosterone which I will do first thing next

monday. He acknowledged that this was just a first step but that he had to order

these things one step at a time or the insurance companies freak out.

So that's my story up to today. Sorry I went on so long. Would appreciate

comments, questions, advice and support.

Thanks guys.

Mike

JewishBodybuilders/

You don't have to be Jewish to join the Jewish Bodybuilders group!This

group is for MEN and WOMEN to post info and pix about the sport of bodybuilding

and of Jewish Bodybuilders! (Warning: We often go off topic but we try to have

fun doing it!).

----------------------------------------------------------

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

https://esite.uahc.org/edonations2/mainpage.aspx

---------------------------------

Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.

Play Sims Stories at Games.

[Guest guest]

Actually my shrink was initially more open to it than my uroligist. But he said

that before he would order a T-test he needed to order general blood work, which

he did. The blood work came back with triglycerides 300% over normal (now under

control with no problem) but that distracted us from the initial discussion so I

never pursued it further with him. I only see my shrink once or twice a year to

prescribe meds because he acknowledges that the problem is chemical rather than

psychollogical!

Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> wrote: I had depression

and anxiety due to low " T " . I was told to go to a shrink but I didn't. The

chemical imbalance was low " T " , not seratonin which is usually for clinical

depression.

I don't know if you can test for seratonin to determine clinical depression. My

doctor (I switched doctors by this time) recommended I stay on anti-depressants

for at least a year just in case I had clinical depression, or low seratonin.

I'll bet the shrink may not be aware of the connection of these symptoms and

hypogonadism. This was certainly the case in my behalf as I began to see my

mental condition degrade into something unrecognizable.

" T " injections took care of me. Now just an occasional headache, that's it.

Getting adjusted to injectable " T " is another matter. You may struggle with

withdrawal symptoms for a while thinking the cure is worse than the problem. I

certainly did. It took time to get adjusted but it all finally came around.

Good luck and keep us posted.

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

> Yesterday I had an annual routine checkup with my urologist (who is a pretty

young guy and fairly open to discussion and concerns,) So after the usual exam I

brought up the size issue and testosterone levels and hypogonadism. I should

mention also that at age 50, I gained a lot of weight around my belly (I have

always been overwieght but never with a pot belly till then) and also exhibited

symptoms of anxiety and depression as well as lethargy. I am on mds for anxiety

and depression which my shrink says must be chemical (being hte well adjusted

person that I am LOL)

You should get an E2 test also. This sounds like classic high E2

levels.

---------------------------------

Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,

photos & more.

---------------------------------

Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join 's user panel and

lay it on us.

[Guest guest]

For what it's worth hear are some links some are studys and others written by

Dr.'s.

This link is written by LEF and states that Estrogens meaning Estrodial that

it must be down between 10 to 30 pg/ml.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-estrogen.htm

In all of this stuff they use the word Estrogen but the bad guy is Estradiol.

Try to use the word Estradiol when talking about this.

There are tons of info about this but they are

Mike S <fiftiesmuscles@...> wrote:

E2 is what? What makes it classic? I would like to be able to take

this back to my Dr

Thanks.

Mike

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

> Yesterday I had an annual routine checkup with my urologist (who is a pretty

young guy and fairly open to discussion and concerns,) So after the usual exam I

brought up the size issue and testosterone levels and hypogonadism. I should

mention also that at age 50, I gained a lot of weight around my belly (I have

always been overwieght but never with a pot belly till then) and also exhibited

symptoms of anxiety and depression as well as lethargy. I am on mds for anxiety

and depression which my shrink says must be chemical (being hte well adjusted

person that I am LOL)

You should get an E2 test also. This sounds like classic high E2

levels.

JewishBodybuilders/

You don't have to be Jewish to join the Jewish Bodybuilders group!This

group is for MEN and WOMEN to post info and pix about the sport of bodybuilding

and of Jewish Bodybuilders! (Warning: We often go off topic but we try to have

fun doing it!).

----------------------------------------------------------

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

https://esite.uahc.org/edonations2/mainpage.aspx

---------------------------------

Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Guest guest]

For what it's worth hear are some links some are studys and others written by

Dr.'s.

This link is written by LEF and states that Estrogens meaning Estrodial that

it must be down between 10 to 30 pg/ml.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-estrogen.htm

In all of this stuff they use the word Estrogen but the bad guy is Estradiol.

Try to use the word Estradiol when talking about this.

There are tons of info about this but they are body buidling sites and Dr.'s

are not to cool about them yet everything they know started with the body

builders.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=3853DB0848CE66030D721AD21C16D663\

..hydra?id=459855 & pageNo=-1#bottom

From this search.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & lr= & ie=ISO-8859-1 & q=%2Barimidex+%2Blowering+e\

strogen+%2Bmen & btnG=Google+Search

Mike S <fiftiesmuscles@...> wrote:

E2 is what? What makes it classic? I would like to be able to take

this back to my Dr

Thanks.

Mike

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

> Yesterday I had an annual routine checkup with my urologist (who is a pretty

young guy and fairly open to discussion and concerns,) So after the usual exam I

brought up the size issue and testosterone levels and hypogonadism. I should

mention also that at age 50, I gained a lot of weight around my belly (I have

always been overwieght but never with a pot belly till then) and also exhibited

symptoms of anxiety and depression as well as lethargy. I am on mds for anxiety

and depression which my shrink says must be chemical (being hte well adjusted

person that I am LOL)

You should get an E2 test also. This sounds like classic high E2

levels.

JewishBodybuilders/

You don't have to be Jewish to join the Jewish Bodybuilders group!This

group is for MEN and WOMEN to post info and pix about the sport of bodybuilding

and of Jewish Bodybuilders! (Warning: We often go off topic but we try to have

fun doing it!).

----------------------------------------------------------

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

https://esite.uahc.org/edonations2/mainpage.aspx

---------------------------------

Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Guest guest]

Gee lots of reading; thats great! Thanks for all the help and support.

Just came back from having blood drawn for the AM Test level so we will see

how that goes. Then I will share with my Dr that I want to be on the fast

traack and if he is not open to it I will have to find somenone else.

Thanks again guys for all the info and support.

Mike

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

For what it's worth hear are some links some are studys and others

written by Dr.'s.

This link is written by LEF and states that Estrogens meaning Estrodial that it

must be down between 10 to 30 pg/ml.

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-estrogen.htm

In all of this stuff they use the word Estrogen but the bad guy is Estradiol.

Try to use the word Estradiol when talking about this.

There are tons of info about this but they are

Mike S <fiftiesmuscles@...> wrote:

E2 is what? What makes it classic? I would like to be able to take this back to

my Dr

Thanks.

Mike

retrogrouch@... wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

> Yesterday I had an annual routine checkup with my urologist (who is a pretty

young guy and fairly open to discussion and concerns,) So after the usual exam I

brought up the size issue and testosterone levels and hypogonadism. I should

mention also that at age 50, I gained a lot of weight around my belly (I have

always been overwieght but never with a pot belly till then) and also exhibited

symptoms of anxiety and depression as well as lethargy. I am on mds for anxiety

and depression which my shrink says must be chemical (being hte well adjusted

person that I am LOL)

You should get an E2 test also. This sounds like classic high E2

levels.

JewishBodybuilders/

You don't have to be Jewish to join the Jewish Bodybuilders group!This

group is for MEN and WOMEN to post info and pix about the sport of bodybuilding

and of Jewish Bodybuilders! (Warning: We often go off topic but we try to have

fun doing it!).

----------------------------------------------------------

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

https://esite.uahc.org/edonations2/mainpage.aspx

---------------------------------

Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 16:04:07 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>E2 is what? What makes it classic? I would like to be able to take this back

to my Dr

>

> Thanks.

>

> Mike

Sorry for being vague. E2 is estradiol. It is a form of estrogen.

Testosterone converts to E2. Some converts to DHT and some converts to

E2. E2 out competes testosterone for many binding sites and steals the

effect of good testosterone levels. W#ith high E2 you will start

putting fat on around your waist. It can even lead to breast growth

if it gets high enough. It diminishes muscle tone and will make you

more moody, especially weepy, and " sensitive " .

T is converted to E2 by an enzyme called aromotase that is more

prevalent in fat cells. So as you get heavier you make more, which

adds more fat around your waist and . . . so on.

I meant classic in a slang sense, like " typical " .

Sometimes men can have so much E2 conversion that just stopping the

conversion can boost their T levels as much as 200 to 300 points. You

should get tested. E2 is also being implicated in prostate growth and

cancer. Your urologist should be aware of that.

>

>retrogrouch@... wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 08:34:20 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>

>> Yesterday I had an annual routine checkup with my urologist (who is a pretty

young guy and fairly open to discussion and concerns,) So after the usual exam I

brought up the size issue and testosterone levels and hypogonadism. I should

mention also that at age 50, I gained a lot of weight around my belly (I have

always been overwieght but never with a pot belly till then) and also exhibited

symptoms of anxiety and depression as well as lethargy. I am on mds for anxiety

and depression which my shrink says must be chemical (being hte well adjusted

person that I am LOL)

>

>You should get an E2 test also. This sounds like classic high E2

>levels.

>

>

>

>

>

> JewishBodybuilders/

>

>You don't have to be Jewish to join the Jewish Bodybuilders group!This

group is for MEN and WOMEN to post info and pix about the sport of bodybuilding

and of Jewish Bodybuilders! (Warning: We often go off topic but we try to have

fun doing it!).

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

-

>Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

>

>https://esite.uahc.org/edonations2/mainpage.aspx

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>---------------------------------

>Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Due to some brain fog and restlessness and inability to focus, all which are

most days mild, I joined this group. This morning since I was so sluggish,

I took 1 ml of ANDROGEL which I had previously put in my closet. I feel

better already which may be psychological. Its only been two hours. However

my

face is flush and hot. Can I be feeling the effects of the T supplementation

in my face and am I dreaming psychologically to feel better two hours after

rubbing the ANDROGEL into my body. Thanks for any replies.

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

Pmgamer: Thanks for the links. I will definitely review them and I will

take your advice. I do need to decide if I am going to " fish or cut bait "

regarding T supplementation. Thanks also for the always ready help I see you

give all the guys on this board. I am glad you are doing so well on T. Aging

is not so bad when you have the possibility to feel like a much younger man.

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

Hi cottonfarm yes this can happen not to many men get this right away so I take

it your levels are not to low. It only takes about 2 hrs for your levels to

peak on this med. Read this link and stop doing this if your not going to keep

it up tomorrow you may feel dam bad when your levels go back down.

I hate to dum a lot of links on you with your job you don't have time to crap

and when you do you find your self sitting there. Or pass your self in the hall

way.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6413 & d=1139879356

http://www.griffinmedical.com/male_hormone_modulation_therapy.html

You and Reto need to hook up having the same job.

cottonfarm7@... wrote:

Due to some brain fog and restlessness and inability to focus, all

which are

most days mild, I joined this group. This morning since I was so sluggish,

I took 1 ml of ANDROGEL which I had previously put in my closet. I feel

better already which may be psychological. Its only been two hours. However my

face is flush and hot. Can I be feeling the effects of the T supplementation

in my face and am I dreaming psychologically to feel better two hours after

rubbing the ANDROGEL into my body. Thanks for any replies.

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

I will do this reading for tonight's homework! Thanks.

Mike

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

The best thing is get new tests done and post them here. The best

tests are form Dr. 's site.

This is taken from Dr. 's site at www.allthingsmale.com in TRT: A Recipe for

Success.

• Total Testosterone

• Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA " Free and Loosely Bound " )

• Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)

• DHT

• Estradiol (specify the Extraction Method, or " sensitive " assay for

males)

• LH

• FSH

• Prolactin

• Thyroid Panel do TSH, Free T3 and Free T4.

* Morning Cortisol

• CBC

• Comprehensive Metabolic Panel

• Lipid Profile

• PSA (if over 40)

If you go to Dr. s site and read TRT: A Recipe for Success in this are the

tests and why.

cottonfarm7@... wrote:

Pmgamer: Thanks for the links. I will definitely review them and I will

take your advice. I do need to decide if I am going to " fish or cut bait "

regarding T supplementation. Thanks also for the always ready help I see you

give all the guys on this board. I am glad you are doing so well on T. Aging

is not so bad when you have the possibility to feel like a much younger man.

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.