Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

what size spike are you guys using for the biweekly shots?

would a 1/2 " needle going straight in (as opposed to on an angle like

for a subcutaceous) be long enough going into the thigh?

I ask because I was considering it... and I've got all these

1cc/29g/1/2 " syringes and it occured to me that for a little bitty

1/4cc dose they just might work fine.

[Guest guest]

Hi -

Those sound like insulin syringes. 29G is pretty small; I guess if

you can get the T oil in, you can get it out but its going to take a

while.

As Dan says, a half inch length needle is OK if your legs are lean,

but there've been some reports of guys not going deep enough into the

muscle and getting " lumps " or " bumps " of T oil between the fat and

muscle layer. Personally I use 25G, 1 inch needles to inject

(Worse one I ever tried was 27G, one and a quarter inch needle - took

forever to get the oil in and the needle was trying to bend all the

time. Worked great for water-based HCG, though.)

Rich

>

>

> Hi,

>

> what size spike are you guys using for the biweekly shots?

>

> would a 1/2 " needle going straight in (as opposed to on an angle

like

> for a subcutaceous) be long enough going into the thigh?

>

> I ask because I was considering it... and I've got all these

> 1cc/29g/1/2 " syringes and it occured to me that for a little bitty

> 1/4cc dose they just might work fine.

>

[Guest guest]

,

You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into the

flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has to

shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more tissue

irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially for a

life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to caues a

build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep injections.

Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch syringe is

the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25 and a

1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as well.

Be Well, Vickie

In , " Rich " <caliconine@...> wrote:

>

> Hi -

> Those sound like insulin syringes. 29G is pretty small; I guess if

> you can get the T oil in, you can get it out but its going to take

a

> while.

> As Dan says, a half inch length needle is OK if your legs are

lean,

> but there've been some reports of guys not going deep enough into

the

> muscle and getting " lumps " or " bumps " of T oil between the fat and

> muscle layer. Personally I use 25G, 1 inch needles to inject

> (Worse one I ever tried was 27G, one and a quarter inch needle -

took

> forever to get the oil in and the needle was trying to bend all

the

> time. Worked great for water-based HCG, though.)

> Rich

>

>

> >

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > what size spike are you guys using for the biweekly shots?

> >

> > would a 1/2 " needle going straight in (as opposed to on an angle

> like

> > for a subcutaceous) be long enough going into the thigh?

> >

> > I ask because I was considering it... and I've got all these

> > 1cc/29g/1/2 " syringes and it occured to me that for a little

bitty

> > 1/4cc dose they just might work fine.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dave,

I have used 27's to do IM injections many times. 23's cause some

pain but I'm gooood! You'd never know ya got a shot with a harpoon

when I'm done. But, I am mindful that poor little guys and older

folks just don't need the truama of a huge needle with much smaller

body and muscle mass.

Just keep in mind that men have generally more muscle and chronic

injections will cause scarring over time. Smaller needles usually

have a tendency to cause more localized injection pain but...Who's

to argue with what works on any given individual, eh?

In , " Dave " <groups@...> wrote:

>

> Vickie, you actually make a fine case for 27g needles. they

appear strong

> enough for me in the thigh or delt, and thinner means less damage,

right? I

> always inject everything slowly, so jetting not an issue I think.

23g feels

> like a spear going in the thigh.

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

[mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of Vickie

> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:41 AM

>

> Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

>

>

>

> ,

> You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

> muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into the

> flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has to

> shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more tissue

> irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially for

a

> life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to caues

a

> build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

injections.

> Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch syringe is

> the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25 and a

> 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as well.

> Be Well, Vickie

>

> In @ <mailto: %40>

,

> " Rich " <caliconine@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi -

> > Those sound like insulin syringes. 29G is pretty small; I guess

if

> > you can get the T oil in, you can get it out but its going to

take

> a

> > while.

> > As Dan says, a half inch length needle is OK if your legs are

> lean,

> > but there've been some reports of guys not going deep enough

into

> the

> > muscle and getting " lumps " or " bumps " of T oil between the fat

and

> > muscle layer. Personally I use 25G, 1 inch needles to inject

> > (Worse one I ever tried was 27G, one and a quarter inch needle -

> took

> > forever to get the oil in and the needle was trying to bend all

> the

> > time. Worked great for water-based HCG, though.)

> > Rich

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > what size spike are you guys using for the biweekly shots?

> > >

> > > would a 1/2 " needle going straight in (as opposed to on an

angle

> > like

> > > for a subcutaceous) be long enough going into the thigh?

> > >

> > > I ask because I was considering it... and I've got all these

> > > 1cc/29g/1/2 " syringes and it occured to me that for a little

> bitty

> > > 1/4cc dose they just might work fine.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> ,

> You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

> muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into the

> flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has to

> shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more tissue

> irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially for

a

> life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to caues

a

> build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

injections.

> Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch syringe is

> the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25 and a

> 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as well.

> Be Well, Vickie

>

>

Hey Vickke,

What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-m

Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the 11/2

needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter one and

I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the one that

gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and the

smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

Blessings,

Roy

[Guest guest]

Hi Roy-

I think Vickie was referring more to the ultra thin needles - the

29G, 30G, and 31G. They aren't near as stout as the 27G. I know on

more than one occasion I've bent a 29G needle just trying to get

passed the septum (to inject HCG.) And on at least one, the needle

was so dull it actually dimpled the skin before pushing through. Not

exactly painless either. I don't know how diabetics do it, day after

day. There must be some technique for inserting an ultra-fine needle

in a septum without dulling or bending it. I'm pretty sure its -not-

by jabbing it in fast, not in my hands anyway.

Rich

> >

> > ,

> > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

> > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into the

> > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has to

> > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more

tissue

> > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially

for

> a

> > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to

caues

> a

> > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> injections.

> > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch syringe

is

> > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25 and

a

> > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as well.

> > Be Well, Vickie

> >

> >

>

> Hey Vickke,

>

> What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-m

> Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the 11/2

> needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter one and

> I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the one that

> gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and the

> smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> Blessings,

> Roy

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Roy-

> I think Vickie was referring more to the ultra thin needles - the

> 29G, 30G, and 31G. They aren't near as stout as the 27G. I know on

> more than one occasion I've bent a 29G needle just trying to get

> passed the septum (to inject HCG.) And on at least one, the needle

> was so dull it actually dimpled the skin before pushing through. Not

> exactly painless either. I don't know how diabetics do it, day after

> day. There must be some technique for inserting an ultra-fine needle

> in a septum without dulling or bending it. I'm pretty sure its -not-

> by jabbing it in fast, not in my hands anyway.

> Rich

>

Rich what I referring mainly was the length of the needle. I know

for a fact the 1/2 inch needle is not as sore as using the 1 1/2

needle.

Roy

[Guest guest]

Hi Roy-

If you stay with 27G using T oil, I think you'll probably be limited

to a half inch, or the 5/8th that Dan prefers, anyway.

The longer the needle, the more back pressure you get, simple

physics. As I posted previously I tried injecting once with a 27G,

inch and a quarter needle and I had to squeeze down on the plunger so

hard I'm surprised something didn't break. The hydraulic pressure

inside the syringe must have been terrific. Thats also why I was

bending the needle, in the effort. I doubt if you could (practically)

use a one-inch needle, even with small amounts of T oil IMHO. If

you're comfortable with a 27G, half inch - hey, whatever works, go

for it.

Me, I like the 25G. I figure its a good compromise; not that much

thicker than a 27G, and definitely (to my eyes) not near as big as a

23G. It handles T oil with a 1 inch needle easily. In fact, if I

press too hard on the plunger, the muscle lets me know its too fast

by building up a dull ache. (This is injecting in the thigh; the only

time I use a one and a half inch needle is in a buttock - and I might

switch to a 23G for that.)

Rich

> >

> > Hi Roy-

> > I think Vickie was referring more to the ultra thin needles - the

> > 29G, 30G, and 31G. They aren't near as stout as the 27G. I know

on

> > more than one occasion I've bent a 29G needle just trying to get

> > passed the septum (to inject HCG.) And on at least one, the

needle

> > was so dull it actually dimpled the skin before pushing through.

Not

> > exactly painless either. I don't know how diabetics do it, day

after

> > day. There must be some technique for inserting an ultra-fine

needle

> > in a septum without dulling or bending it. I'm pretty sure its -

not-

> > by jabbing it in fast, not in my hands anyway.

> > Rich

> >

>

> Rich what I referring mainly was the length of the needle. I know

> for a fact the 1/2 inch needle is not as sore as using the 1 1/2

> needle.

> Roy

>

[Guest guest]

Roy,

There is nothing " wrong " with using a smaller needle. I've just

found they are a bit more painful because it takes so much more to

push a thicker fluid through and a longer needle gets down into the

muscle better. Ff a half inch needle can achieve the results you

want then go for it! Any of them are okay until ya get to something

as small as a 29. Just use your normal good judgement and make sure

the drug goes in the muscle. I've heard a few mentions of sub-q T

injections. I assume that the T is not of an iol base solution?

Be well, Vickie

In , " Roy "

<chickenbirdtree@...> wrote:

>

>

> >

> > ,

> > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

> > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into the

> > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has to

> > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more

tissue

> > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially

for

> a

> > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to

caues

> a

> > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> injections.

> > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch syringe

is

> > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25 and

a

> > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as

well.

> > Be Well, Vickie

> >

> >

>

> Hey Vickke,

>

> What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-m

> Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the 11/2

> needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter one and

> I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the one that

> gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and the

> smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> Blessings,

> Roy

>

[Guest guest]

Phil-

Thanks for the link! Fascinating stuff! Well...I've got plenty of

short needles (27G too, half inch length, LOL.) I could try it but I

sure hope they're right about stable E2 levels. I suspect my gut is a

regular E2 conversion factory. (Nice forum, too)

Rich

> > >

> > > ,

> > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

> > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into the

> > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has

to

> > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more

> tissue

> > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially

> for

> > a

> > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to

> caues

> > a

> > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > injections.

> > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch syringe

> is

> > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25

and

> a

> > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as

> well.

> > > Be Well, Vickie

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Hey Vickke,

> >

> > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-m

> > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the 11/2

> > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter one and

> > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the one that

> > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and the

> > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> > Blessings,

> > Roy

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phill,

Interesting that Shippen does his sub-q even with an oil based

solution. Doesn't seem like it would work well but who's to say,eh?

If ever goes to shots I would prefer he do them that way. Good

FYI, thanks. Vickie

> > >

> > > ,

> > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

> > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into

the

> > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has

to

> > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more

> tissue

> > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially

> for

> > a

> > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to

> caues

> > a

> > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > injections.

> > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch

syringe

> is

> > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25

and

> a

> > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as

> well.

> > > Be Well, Vickie

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Hey Vickke,

> >

> > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-m

> > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the 11/2

> > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter one

and

> > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the one

that

> > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and the

> > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> > Blessings,

> > Roy

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dave,

My thought on sub-q and oil based solutions is...Saline based

solutions readily absorb in to tissues while oil based is meant to

absorb much more slowly. I wonder how well the base absorbs when

injected just under the skin. Several mentions have been made that

it is done this way so I guess the old stand by...listen to your Doc

applies here. If oil bases will work fine sub-q it is a benefit in

the long run. Vickie

In , " Dave " <groups@...> wrote:

>

> Vickie, why do you think an oil based T subq wouldn't work well?

Just

> curious.

>

> I'd been using 5/8 or 1/2 " 27g to supposedly IM in either the

thigh or delt.

> I thought 5/8 " in the delt was definitely deep enough to be IM,

but I did

> notice sometimes that it seemed the needle could be jiggled side

to side

> without much pain, so maybe it wasn't IM, but subq after all.

Never had

> problems either way. Doc advised me to switch to 1 " in thigh

only, too much

> risk in the delts of nerves or abcess.

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

[mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of Vickie

> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:50 PM

>

> Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

>

>

>

> Phill,

> Interesting that Shippen does his sub-q even with an oil based

> solution. Doesn't seem like it would work well but who's to

say,eh?

> If ever goes to shots I would prefer he do them that way.

Good

> FYI, thanks. Vickie

>

>

> > > >

> > > > ,

> > > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to

a

> > > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into

> the

> > > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication

has

> to

> > > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more

> > tissue

> > > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this

potentially

> > for

> > > a

> > > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to

> > caues

> > > a

> > > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > > injections.

> > > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch

> syringe

> > is

> > > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25

> and

> > a

> > > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as

> > well.

> > > > Be Well, Vickie

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Hey Vickke,

> > >

> > > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-m

> > > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the

11/2

> > > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter one

> and

> > > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the one

> that

> > > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and

the

> > > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> > > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> > > Blessings,

> > > Roy

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Phil,

I have read most of Shippen's articles but hell, I read thousands of

different medical articles a month. After a while everything blends

together!

Shippen is not the end all be all of HRT. He's one highly

reconginsed man and certainly has done some positive things. My

concern is not only how well it absorbs...I think that has been

established. Another concern is, what else changes if anything?

Shppen is pretty convincing I will admit. If sub-q will prevent scar

tissue build up over time, that comes with years of IM injections,

yet still gives the same good results....wouldn't all Doc's be doing

them sub-q?

Just for giggles I'm going to start asking some Physcian friends of

mine. U of M has a swell medical library I can access.

I'm not arguing at all. I like things more clearly understood when

something strays from the norm is all. Call me strange.

Vickie

In , philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

wrote:

>

> Vickie I think Dr. Shippen " The Testosterone Syndorme " started

doing to him self to see if the testosterone would go into the blood

stream slower. It's in oil so it will last longer yet still we get

a spike 48 hrs. later that drives up Estradiol. He was using

200mg/ml Depo testosterone. In his book he was down on shots now he

found doing subQ it works better and there is less a problem with

Estradiol. Here is a link to the post one of him men were saying.

He dose half a shot in one side .18mls and .18mls on the other side

every 3 days.

> http://tinyurl.com/ffvzm

> Phil

>

>

> Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

> Dave,

> My thought on sub-q and oil based solutions is...Saline based

> solutions readily absorb in to tissues while oil based is meant to

> absorb much more slowly. I wonder how well the base absorbs when

> injected just under the skin. Several mentions have been made that

> it is done this way so I guess the old stand by...listen to your

Doc

> applies here. If oil bases will work fine sub-q it is a benefit in

> the long run. Vickie

>

> In , " Dave " <groups@> wrote:

> >

> > Vickie, why do you think an oil based T subq wouldn't work well?

> Just

> > curious.

> >

> > I'd been using 5/8 or 1/2 " 27g to supposedly IM in either the

> thigh or delt.

> > I thought 5/8 " in the delt was definitely deep enough to be IM,

> but I did

> > notice sometimes that it seemed the needle could be jiggled side

> to side

> > without much pain, so maybe it wasn't IM, but subq after all.

> Never had

> > problems either way. Doc advised me to switch to 1 " in thigh

> only, too much

> > risk in the delts of nerves or abcess.

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> [mailto: ]

> > On Behalf Of Vickie

> > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:50 PM

> >

> > Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

> >

> >

> >

> > Phill,

> > Interesting that Shippen does his sub-q even with an oil based

> > solution. Doesn't seem like it would work well but who's to

> say,eh?

> > If ever goes to shots I would prefer he do them that way.

> Good

> > FYI, thanks. Vickie

> >

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > ,

> > > > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in

to

> a

> > > > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in

into

> > the

> > > > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication

> has

> > to

> > > > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes

more

> > > tissue

> > > > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this

> potentially

> > > for

> > > > a

> > > > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not

to

> > > caues

> > > > a

> > > > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > > > injections.

> > > > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch

> > syringe

> > > is

> > > > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1,

1.25

> > and

> > > a

> > > > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do

as

> > > well.

> > > > > Be Well, Vickie

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hey Vickke,

> > > >

> > > > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-

m

> > > > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the

> 11/2

> > > > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter

one

> > and

> > > > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the

one

> > that

> > > > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and

> the

> > > > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> > > > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> > > > Blessings,

> > > > Roy

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Yep, the heavier the solution the more it stings! Not suprised at

all to hear your shots smarted for hours. If it didn't I'd be very

suprised.

Now...think about that pain and think about scars. Think about

inflamation and how it may affect the way a drug absorbs. A heavy

drug (with a heavy molecular weight) has to break down slowly into

those inflamed tissues in order to pass into the system. Does

inflamation present a barrier? I don't know (but expect it does) for

sure but do have some questions for the right person. This is how

my mind works!

In , philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

wrote:

>

> I am the same way I read a lot and it stays with me yet I can't

remember names.

> My Dr. let me do shots every 3 days but not subQ he said I can

use a small needle and do them into my thigh. I tried some subQ in

my belly and they burn for a long time after 3 - 4 hrs. And I

don't like this. Have you been to these sites one is where Dr.

is now posting.

> http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/

> And this site has about 5 Dr.'s posting off and on.

> http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

> A lot of dam good info comes from Dr. nco.

> Phil

>

> Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

> Phil,

> I have read most of Shippen's articles but hell, I read thousands

of

> different medical articles a month. After a while everything

blends

> together!

>

> Shippen is not the end all be all of HRT. He's one highly

> reconginsed man and certainly has done some positive things. My

> concern is not only how well it absorbs...I think that has been

> established. Another concern is, what else changes if anything?

> Shppen is pretty convincing I will admit. If sub-q will prevent

scar

> tissue build up over time, that comes with years of IM injections,

> yet still gives the same good results....wouldn't all Doc's be

doing

> them sub-q?

>

> Just for giggles I'm going to start asking some Physcian friends

of

> mine. U of M has a swell medical library I can access.

> I'm not arguing at all. I like things more clearly understood when

> something strays from the norm is all. Call me strange.

>

> Vickie

>

> In , philip georgian <pmgamer18@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Vickie I think Dr. Shippen " The Testosterone Syndorme " started

> doing to him self to see if the testosterone would go into the

blood

> stream slower. It's in oil so it will last longer yet still we get

> a spike 48 hrs. later that drives up Estradiol. He was using

> 200mg/ml Depo testosterone. In his book he was down on shots now

he

> found doing subQ it works better and there is less a problem with

> Estradiol. Here is a link to the post one of him men were saying.

> He dose half a shot in one side .18mls and .18mls on the other

side

> every 3 days.

> > http://tinyurl.com/ffvzm

> > Phil

> >

> >

> > Vickie <plp40@> wrote:

> > Dave,

> > My thought on sub-q and oil based solutions is...Saline based

> > solutions readily absorb in to tissues while oil based is meant

to

> > absorb much more slowly. I wonder how well the base absorbs when

> > injected just under the skin. Several mentions have been made

that

> > it is done this way so I guess the old stand by...listen to your

> Doc

> > applies here. If oil bases will work fine sub-q it is a benefit

in

> > the long run. Vickie

> >

> > In , " Dave " <groups@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Vickie, why do you think an oil based T subq wouldn't work

well?

> > Just

> > > curious.

> > >

> > > I'd been using 5/8 or 1/2 " 27g to supposedly IM in either the

> > thigh or delt.

> > > I thought 5/8 " in the delt was definitely deep enough to be

IM,

> > but I did

> > > notice sometimes that it seemed the needle could be jiggled

side

> > to side

> > > without much pain, so maybe it wasn't IM, but subq after all.

> > Never had

> > > problems either way. Doc advised me to switch to 1 " in thigh

> > only, too much

> > > risk in the delts of nerves or abcess.

> > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From:

> > [mailto: ]

> > > On Behalf Of Vickie

> > > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:50 PM

> > >

> > > Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Phill,

> > > Interesting that Shippen does his sub-q even with an oil based

> > > solution. Doesn't seem like it would work well but who's to

> > say,eh?

> > > If ever goes to shots I would prefer he do them that way.

> > Good

> > > FYI, thanks. Vickie

> > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ,

> > > > > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in

> to

> > a

> > > > > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in

> into

> > > the

> > > > > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the

medication

> > has

> > > to

> > > > > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes

> more

> > > > tissue

> > > > > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this

> > potentially

> > > > for

> > > > > a

> > > > > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as

not

> to

> > > > caues

> > > > > a

> > > > > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > > > > injections.

> > > > > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch

> > > syringe

> > > > is

> > > > > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1,

> 1.25

> > > and

> > > > a

> > > > > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do

> as

> > > > well.

> > > > > > Be Well, Vickie

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hey Vickke,

> > > > >

> > > > > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for

intr-

> m

> > > > > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than

the

> > 11/2

> > > > > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter

> one

> > > and

> > > > > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the

> one

> > > that

> > > > > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull

and

> > the

> > > > > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a

needle I

> > > > > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that

business.

> > > > > Blessings,

> > > > > Roy

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I really don't get any sting from my T oil injections (0.4cc/wk of

200mg/cc T.cyp using a 25G, 1in needle.) Oh, I may have gotten a

charley-horse from a (beginners') too tense muscle years ago, or

inadvertently moving the needle around when I used to try to aspirate

with one hand, but the art of injection improves with repetition over

time.

I've discovered the only time I personally get a -burning- from

injections is always due to alcohol residues. If I really slobber on

the alcohol, I think enough soaks down into the skin that, even if

the top surface seems dry, the alcohol down lower is just waiting for

the needle to push through and is drawn in and then burns like hell.

If you watch a nurse draw a blood sample, she will lightly dab the

area once or maybe twice and thats it. I know we cover more area with

our IM injections but I think it still pays to go easy on the

alcohol.

I noticed the word " syringe " was in the original post title, and if

you mean syringe literally, I use a Luer-Slip 1cc syringe (not a Luer-

Lock syringe.) Thats because I switch from a larger needle for

drawing and switch to a finer sharper needle for injecting. I find

that it (seems to) take much less pressure to get the oil moving in a

1cc syringe than something like a 3cc (that admittedly usually has

the advantage of Luer-Lock). It seems like it takes more pressure

pushing against the blunt bottom of the 3cc syringe (or maybe it just

seems that way because I can see the level of oil moving that much

sooner in the 1cc.) And, yes, I've had the slip-on needle pop off

during injection, exactly twice, out of my several years worth of

injections. They were both from my earlier injections; one, I was

either too lazy or forgetful to twist the disposable needle on

sufficiently tight enough, and the second time I was using a needle

that was far too small for T oil and it couldn't take the pressure.

If you twist on a slip type needle appropriately enough onto a Luer-

slip syringe, it won't come off, not easily (try just yanking one

off.)

Rich

(BTW, as a bit of trivia, a disposible 26G needle is available in 1/2

and 5/8 inch length from BD, but the only place I could readily order

them was from the UK. A bit pricey after the Pounds Sterling

exchange, but they do exist.)

> >

> > I am the same way I read a lot and it stays with me yet I can't

> remember names.

> > My Dr. let me do shots every 3 days but not subQ he said I can

> use a small needle and do them into my thigh. I tried some subQ in

> my belly and they burn for a long time after 3 - 4 hrs. And I

> don't like this. Have you been to these sites one is where Dr.

> is now posting.

> > http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/

> > And this site has about 5 Dr.'s posting off and on.

> > http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

> > A lot of dam good info comes from Dr. nco.

> > Phil

>

[Guest guest]

Luer-Lock is just the name given to the screw adapted end of a

syringe. The end where needle is, is for screwing the syringe onto

say, an IV port for example. We seldom see a Luer-Lock on 1cc

syringes because they are rarely used to push IV meds. Most Iv push

doses are either too large in volume or diluted some to better

control their delivery.

Larger ones work well with big needles for poking the bubbles when

wall papering.... or for gluing those pesky small areas that never

seem to stick the first time! Do not try this with crazy glue..LOL!

Hey Phil....did ya watch Detroit whip them Yankees today?

Vickie

In , " Rich " <caliconine@...> wrote:

>

> I really don't get any sting from my T oil injections (0.4cc/wk of

> 200mg/cc T.cyp using a 25G, 1in needle.) Oh, I may have gotten a

> charley-horse from a (beginners') too tense muscle years ago, or

> inadvertently moving the needle around when I used to try to

aspirate

> with one hand, but the art of injection improves with repetition

over

> time.

>

> I've discovered the only time I personally get a -burning- from

> injections is always due to alcohol residues. If I really slobber

on

> the alcohol, I think enough soaks down into the skin that, even if

> the top surface seems dry, the alcohol down lower is just waiting

for

> the needle to push through and is drawn in and then burns like

hell.

> If you watch a nurse draw a blood sample, she will lightly dab the

> area once or maybe twice and thats it. I know we cover more area

with

> our IM injections but I think it still pays to go easy on the

> alcohol.

>

> I noticed the word " syringe " was in the original post title, and

if

> you mean syringe literally, I use a Luer-Slip 1cc syringe (not a

Luer-

> Lock syringe.) Thats because I switch from a larger needle for

> drawing and switch to a finer sharper needle for injecting. I find

> that it (seems to) take much less pressure to get the oil moving

in a

> 1cc syringe than something like a 3cc (that admittedly usually has

> the advantage of Luer-Lock). It seems like it takes more pressure

> pushing against the blunt bottom of the 3cc syringe (or maybe it

just

> seems that way because I can see the level of oil moving that much

> sooner in the 1cc.) And, yes, I've had the slip-on needle pop off

> during injection, exactly twice, out of my several years worth of

> injections. They were both from my earlier injections; one, I was

> either too lazy or forgetful to twist the disposable needle on

> sufficiently tight enough, and the second time I was using a

needle

> that was far too small for T oil and it couldn't take the

pressure.

> If you twist on a slip type needle appropriately enough onto a

Luer-

> slip syringe, it won't come off, not easily (try just yanking one

> off.)

> Rich

>

> (BTW, as a bit of trivia, a disposible 26G needle is available in

1/2

> and 5/8 inch length from BD, but the only place I could readily

order

> them was from the UK. A bit pricey after the Pounds Sterling

> exchange, but they do exist.)

>

>

> > >

> > > I am the same way I read a lot and it stays with me yet I

can't

> > remember names.

> > > My Dr. let me do shots every 3 days but not subQ he said I

can

> > use a small needle and do them into my thigh. I tried some subQ

in

> > my belly and they burn for a long time after 3 - 4 hrs. And I

> > don't like this. Have you been to these sites one is where Dr.

>

> > is now posting.

> > > http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/

> > > And this site has about 5 Dr.'s posting off and on.

> > > http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

> > > A lot of dam good info comes from Dr. nco.

> > > Phil

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dave,

Long story. Hubby (who is very quiet and says very little) is hypo.

His history includes testicular cancer and prostate cancer. He's

currently cancer free and back on testosterone. It's still a new

treatment for him so I'm keeping in the loop with guys who know a

lot of the tricks. It's only been 4 months. We'll see where the

Androgel takes him. reads most everything. He just doesn't say

much. Thanks for asking. Vickie

In , " Dave " <groups@...> wrote:

>

> Vickie- I asked before without you answering, and it's really just

> curiousity on my behalf, but what's your interest in TRT? Are you

a medical

> professional, spouse of TRT patient, or.....?

>

> I only ask because it's unusual to have a woman in the group, and

you're so

> knowledgable.

>

> Thanks.

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

[mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of Vickie

> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 7:54 AM

>

> Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

>

>

>

> Phil,

> I have read most of Shippen's articles but hell, I read thousands

of

> different medical articles a month. After a while everything

blends

> together!

>

> Shippen is not the end all be all of HRT. He's one highly

> reconginsed man and certainly has done some positive things. My

> concern is not only how well it absorbs...I think that has been

> established. Another concern is, what else changes if anything?

> Shppen is pretty convincing I will admit. If sub-q will prevent

scar

> tissue build up over time, that comes with years of IM injections,

> yet still gives the same good results....wouldn't all Doc's be

doing

> them sub-q?

>

> Just for giggles I'm going to start asking some Physcian friends

of

> mine. U of M has a swell medical library I can access.

> I'm not arguing at all. I like things more clearly understood when

> something strays from the norm is all. Call me strange.

>

> Vickie

>

> In @ <mailto: %40>

,

> philip georgian <pmgamer18@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Vickie I think Dr. Shippen " The Testosterone Syndorme " started

> doing to him self to see if the testosterone would go into the

blood

> stream slower. It's in oil so it will last longer yet still we get

> a spike 48 hrs. later that drives up Estradiol. He was using

> 200mg/ml Depo testosterone. In his book he was down on shots now

he

> found doing subQ it works better and there is less a problem with

> Estradiol. Here is a link to the post one of him men were saying.

> He dose half a shot in one side .18mls and .18mls on the other

side

> every 3 days.

> > http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/ffvzm> com/ffvzm

> > Phil

> >

> >

> > Vickie <plp40@> wrote:

> > Dave,

> > My thought on sub-q and oil based solutions is...Saline based

> > solutions readily absorb in to tissues while oil based is meant

to

> > absorb much more slowly. I wonder how well the base absorbs when

> > injected just under the skin. Several mentions have been made

that

> > it is done this way so I guess the old stand by...listen to your

> Doc

> > applies here. If oil bases will work fine sub-q it is a benefit

in

> > the long run. Vickie

> >

> > In @ <mailto: %40>

> , " Dave " <groups@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Vickie, why do you think an oil based T subq wouldn't work

well?

> > Just

> > > curious.

> > >

> > > I'd been using 5/8 or 1/2 " 27g to supposedly IM in either the

> > thigh or delt.

> > > I thought 5/8 " in the delt was definitely deep enough to be

IM,

> > but I did

> > > notice sometimes that it seemed the needle could be jiggled

side

> > to side

> > > without much pain, so maybe it wasn't IM, but subq after all.

> > Never had

> > > problems either way. Doc advised me to switch to 1 " in thigh

> > only, too much

> > > risk in the delts of nerves or abcess.

> > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From: @ <mailto: %40>

>

> > [mailto: @ <mailto: %40>

> ]

> > > On Behalf Of Vickie

> > > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:50 PM

> > > @ <mailto: %40>

>

> > > Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Phill,

> > > Interesting that Shippen does his sub-q even with an oil based

> > > solution. Doesn't seem like it would work well but who's to

> > say,eh?

> > > If ever goes to shots I would prefer he do them that way.

> > Good

> > > FYI, thanks. Vickie

> > >

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ,

> > > > > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in

> to

> > a

> > > > > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in

> into

> > > the

> > > > > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the

medication

> > has

> > > to

> > > > > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes

> more

> > > > tissue

> > > > > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this

> > potentially

> > > > for

> > > > > a

> > > > > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as

not

> to

> > > > caues

> > > > > a

> > > > > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > > > > injections.

> > > > > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch

> > > syringe

> > > > is

> > > > > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1,

> 1.25

> > > and

> > > > a

> > > > > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do

> as

> > > > well.

> > > > > > Be Well, Vickie

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hey Vickke,

> > > > >

> > > > > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for

intr-

> m

> > > > > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than

the

> > 11/2

> > > > > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter

> one

> > > and

> > > > > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the

> one

> > > that

> > > > > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull

and

> > the

> > > > > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a

needle I

> > > > > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that

business.

> > > > > Blessings,

> > > > > Roy

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >