Re: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

[Guest guest]

If your thighs are realitively lean (not a lot of fat) you should be OK. I use a

27 g 5/8th inch needle and inject 0.4 cc with no problem.

Arkansas

<legrandchat@...> wrote:

Hi,

what size spike are you guys using for the biweekly shots?

would a 1/2 " needle going straight in (as opposed to on an angle like

for a subcutaceous) be long enough going into the thigh?

I ask because I was considering it... and I've got all these

1cc/29g/1/2 " syringes and it occured to me that for a little bitty

1/4cc dose they just might work fine.

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi I use a 27g 1ml x 1/2 " lg. needle and the T comes out of the vile slow

but in a min. I get the small dose .21mls out and to do this I pull the plunger

all the way down and hold it until I have about .30mg. in it the then push out

the air and stick myself straight into my Thigh and shoot it takes a little time

to get the T out you one should do there shot slow anyway. Try it.

Phil

<legrandchat@...> wrote:

Hi,

what size spike are you guys using for the biweekly shots?

would a 1/2 " needle going straight in (as opposed to on an angle like

for a subcutaceous) be long enough going into the thigh?

I ask because I was considering it... and I've got all these

1cc/29g/1/2 " syringes and it occured to me that for a little bitty

1/4cc dose they just might work fine.

[Guest guest]

Vickie, you actually make a fine case for 27g needles. they appear strong

enough for me in the thigh or delt, and thinner means less damage, right? I

always inject everything slowly, so jetting not an issue I think. 23g feels

like a spear going in the thigh.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Vickie

Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:41 AM

Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

,

You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into the

flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has to

shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more tissue

irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially for a

life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to caues a

build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep injections.

Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch syringe is

the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25 and a

1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as well.

Be Well, Vickie

In @ <mailto: %40> ,

" Rich " <caliconine@...> wrote:

>

> Hi -

> Those sound like insulin syringes. 29G is pretty small; I guess if

> you can get the T oil in, you can get it out but its going to take

a

> while.

> As Dan says, a half inch length needle is OK if your legs are

lean,

> but there've been some reports of guys not going deep enough into

the

> muscle and getting " lumps " or " bumps " of T oil between the fat and

> muscle layer. Personally I use 25G, 1 inch needles to inject

> (Worse one I ever tried was 27G, one and a quarter inch needle -

took

> forever to get the oil in and the needle was trying to bend all

the

> time. Worked great for water-based HCG, though.)

> Rich

>

>

> >

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > what size spike are you guys using for the biweekly shots?

> >

> > would a 1/2 " needle going straight in (as opposed to on an angle

> like

> > for a subcutaceous) be long enough going into the thigh?

> >

> > I ask because I was considering it... and I've got all these

> > 1cc/29g/1/2 " syringes and it occured to me that for a little

bitty

> > 1/4cc dose they just might work fine.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Vickie is probably right for a Dr's. office or a Hosp. but I feel it's ok I do

us a 27g 1ml x 1/2 " lg. needle and have been doing this everyday for over a yr.

Never had a problem but I never tried a 29g needle I know guys that use them and

they say it works good. So what I am doing I have my Dr.'s approval.

Phil

Dave <groups@...> wrote:

Vickie, you actually make a fine case for 27g needles. they appear strong

enough for me in the thigh or delt, and thinner means less damage, right? I

always inject everything slowly, so jetting not an issue I think. 23g feels

like a spear going in the thigh.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Vickie

Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:41 AM

Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

,

You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into the

flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has to

shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more tissue

irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially for a

life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to caues a

build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep injections.

Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch syringe is

the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25 and a

1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as well.

Be Well, Vickie

In @ ,

" Rich " wrote:

>

> Hi -

> Those sound like insulin syringes. 29G is pretty small; I guess if

> you can get the T oil in, you can get it out but its going to take

a

> while.

> As Dan says, a half inch length needle is OK if your legs are

lean,

> but there've been some reports of guys not going deep enough into

the

> muscle and getting " lumps " or " bumps " of T oil between the fat and

> muscle layer. Personally I use 25G, 1 inch needles to inject

> (Worse one I ever tried was 27G, one and a quarter inch needle -

took

> forever to get the oil in and the needle was trying to bend all

the

> time. Worked great for water-based HCG, though.)

> Rich

>

>

> >

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > what size spike are you guys using for the biweekly shots?

> >

> > would a 1/2 " needle going straight in (as opposed to on an angle

> like

> > for a subcutaceous) be long enough going into the thigh?

> >

> > I ask because I was considering it... and I've got all these

> > 1cc/29g/1/2 " syringes and it occured to me that for a little

bitty

> > 1/4cc dose they just might work fine.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Vickie Dr. Shippen is using Depo T in oil to do his shots subQ into his belly

every 3 days. In his book The Testosterone Syndorme he was down on shots but at

the time they were given every 2 weeks. He felt that doing a 200 to 300 mg shot

every 2 weeks drove up Estradiol to high in men so he felt the patch or gels

were the way to go. Then he found that doing the gels there were problems with

high DHT. So now I hear from one of his men that he give him self a T shot subQ

into his belly doing half the dose on one side and the other half on the other

side every 3 days. He says doing this his DHT is good and Estradiol is much

less a problem then doing the gels. So he does .18ml per side. Her is a cut &

paste on the post.

Phil

Found this interesting conversation on another website regarding subQ

injection of Depo-T apparently being Dr. Shippen's favorite way to administer T

- at least as of February 2004 . . . have any thoughts on this Dr. C?:

http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=8130

[From the link above:]

[initial posting:]

" I was corresponding with a patient of Dr. Eugene Shippen (THE TESTOSTERONE

SYNDROME) about Dr. Shippen's protocol. Apparently his preferred method of

testosterone replacement therapy in cases where he otherwise might have tried

pellets, creams or gels is now SUBCUTANEOUS testosterone injection. According to

this patient, unlike intramuscular injection, subcutaneous injection of a small

amount three times per week results in ultra stable levels and low estrogen

conversion. Apparently Shippen uses this method for his own testosterone

replacement. Not only does it work better than even pellets apparently but it's

dirt cheap compared to about any other method.

I was going to get pellets (hypopituitary) but now I wonder if I should try

this. I have two questions though:

1) Are there any studies on this method? I couldn't find any.

2) I don't doubt Shippen; the lab work of who knows how many patients would not

lie. But if it works so well, why the HELL wasn't this thought of and tested a

long time ago?? It seems like there is a big " DUH " factor here. "

[A second posting:]

" does he use free testosteorne? a suspension? does he used an oil based ester?

specifics please

also, subQ injections are often more painful or lead to inflammation. if you

ever have accidentally gotten a steroid injection into the subq instead of the

muscle you would understand "

[A reply:]

" I heard back from the patient of Dr. Shippen. He injects depo-testosterone

200mg/ml, .35 ml every 3 days into abdominal fat. He splits the injections into

two .18 ml injections which is .36 ml, and says this is because a tiny amount

will leak out of the injection site.

According to this patient, this dosing schedule leaves him with a stable 900

ng/dl total testosterone level and none of the high estrogen conversion

associated with large intramuscular injection.

Apparently Shippen is convinced enough that this is now his preferred method of

TRT. I know he starts by trying to get levels into the high normal range by

trying to get the body to make its own, but if TRT is called for apparently

subcutaneous injection is the first thing he prescribes. "

[This appears to be 70mg every 3 days for a total of 163mg/wk]

Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

Roy,

There is nothing " wrong " with using a smaller needle. I've just

found they are a bit more painful because it takes so much more to

push a thicker fluid through and a longer needle gets down into the

muscle better. Ff a half inch needle can achieve the results you

want then go for it! Any of them are okay until ya get to something

as small as a 29. Just use your normal good judgement and make sure

the drug goes in the muscle. I've heard a few mentions of sub-q T

injections. I assume that the T is not of an iol base solution?

Be well, Vickie

In , " Roy "

wrote:

>

>

> >

> > ,

> > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

> > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into the

> > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has to

> > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more

tissue

> > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially

for

> a

> > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to

caues

> a

> > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> injections.

> > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch syringe

is

> > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25 and

a

> > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as

well.

> > Be Well, Vickie

> >

> >

>

> Hey Vickke,

>

> What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-m

> Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the 11/2

> needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter one and

> I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the one that

> gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and the

> smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> Blessings,

> Roy

>

[Guest guest]

My Dr. would not let me do subQ so he said I would be fine doing them into my

thigh so thats what I do. When you shoot subQ you pinch the skin and shot into

the skin. Not the fat of your belly.

Phil

Rich <caliconine@...> wrote:

Phil-

Thanks for the link! Fascinating stuff! Well...I've got plenty of

short needles (27G too, half inch length, LOL.) I could try it but I

sure hope they're right about stable E2 levels. I suspect my gut is a

regular E2 conversion factory. (Nice forum, too)

Rich

> > >

> > > ,

> > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

> > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into the

> > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has

to

> > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more

> tissue

> > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially

> for

> > a

> > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to

> caues

> > a

> > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > injections.

> > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch syringe

> is

> > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25

and

> a

> > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as

> well.

> > > Be Well, Vickie

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Hey Vickke,

> >

> > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-m

> > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the 11/2

> > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter one and

> > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the one that

> > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and the

> > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> > Blessings,

> > Roy

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

LOL-

I am neither a " little guy " , nor " older. " (45yo, 240, heavy weightlifter,

albeit with too much bodyfat.)

Are you in the medical field of work?

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Vickie

Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 4:03 PM

Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

Dave,

I have used 27's to do IM injections many times. 23's cause some

pain but I'm gooood! You'd never know ya got a shot with a harpoon

when I'm done. But, I am mindful that poor little guys and older

folks just don't need the truama of a huge needle with much smaller

body and muscle mass.

Just keep in mind that men have generally more muscle and chronic

injections will cause scarring over time. Smaller needles usually

have a tendency to cause more localized injection pain but...Who's

to argue with what works on any given individual, eh?

In @ <mailto: %40> ,

" Dave " <groups@...> wrote:

>

> Vickie, you actually make a fine case for 27g needles. they

appear strong

> enough for me in the thigh or delt, and thinner means less damage,

right? I

> always inject everything slowly, so jetting not an issue I think.

23g feels

> like a spear going in the thigh.

>

>

> _____

>

> From: @ <mailto: %40>

[mailto: @ <mailto: %40>

]

> On Behalf Of Vickie

> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:41 AM

> @ <mailto: %40>

> Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

>

>

>

> ,

> You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

> muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into the

> flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has to

> shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more tissue

> irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially for

a

> life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to caues

a

> build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

injections.

> Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch syringe is

> the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25 and a

> 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as well.

> Be Well, Vickie

>

> In @ <mailto: %40>

,

> " Rich " <caliconine@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi -

> > Those sound like insulin syringes. 29G is pretty small; I guess

if

> > you can get the T oil in, you can get it out but its going to

take

> a

> > while.

> > As Dan says, a half inch length needle is OK if your legs are

> lean,

> > but there've been some reports of guys not going deep enough

into

> the

> > muscle and getting " lumps " or " bumps " of T oil between the fat

and

> > muscle layer. Personally I use 25G, 1 inch needles to inject

> > (Worse one I ever tried was 27G, one and a quarter inch needle -

> took

> > forever to get the oil in and the needle was trying to bend all

> the

> > time. Worked great for water-based HCG, though.)

> > Rich

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > what size spike are you guys using for the biweekly shots?

> > >

> > > would a 1/2 " needle going straight in (as opposed to on an

angle

> > like

> > > for a subcutaceous) be long enough going into the thigh?

> > >

> > > I ask because I was considering it... and I've got all these

> > > 1cc/29g/1/2 " syringes and it occured to me that for a little

> bitty

> > > 1/4cc dose they just might work fine.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Vickie, why do you think an oil based T subq wouldn't work well? Just

curious.

I'd been using 5/8 or 1/2 " 27g to supposedly IM in either the thigh or delt.

I thought 5/8 " in the delt was definitely deep enough to be IM, but I did

notice sometimes that it seemed the needle could be jiggled side to side

without much pain, so maybe it wasn't IM, but subq after all. Never had

problems either way. Doc advised me to switch to 1 " in thigh only, too much

risk in the delts of nerves or abcess.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Vickie

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:50 PM

Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

Phill,

Interesting that Shippen does his sub-q even with an oil based

solution. Doesn't seem like it would work well but who's to say,eh?

If ever goes to shots I would prefer he do them that way. Good

FYI, thanks. Vickie

> > >

> > > ,

> > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to a

> > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into

the

> > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication has

to

> > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more

> tissue

> > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this potentially

> for

> > a

> > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to

> caues

> > a

> > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > injections.

> > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch

syringe

> is

> > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25

and

> a

> > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as

> well.

> > > Be Well, Vickie

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Hey Vickke,

> >

> > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-m

> > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the 11/2

> > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter one

and

> > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the one

that

> > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and the

> > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> > Blessings,

> > Roy

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Vickie I think Dr. Shippen " The Testosterone Syndorme " started doing to him self

to see if the testosterone would go into the blood stream slower. It's in oil

so it will last longer yet still we get a spike 48 hrs. later that drives up

Estradiol. He was using 200mg/ml Depo testosterone. In his book he was down on

shots now he found doing subQ it works better and there is less a problem with

Estradiol. Here is a link to the post one of him men were saying. He dose half

a shot in one side .18mls and .18mls on the other side every 3 days.

http://tinyurl.com/ffvzm

Phil

Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

Dave,

My thought on sub-q and oil based solutions is...Saline based

solutions readily absorb in to tissues while oil based is meant to

absorb much more slowly. I wonder how well the base absorbs when

injected just under the skin. Several mentions have been made that

it is done this way so I guess the old stand by...listen to your Doc

applies here. If oil bases will work fine sub-q it is a benefit in

the long run. Vickie

In , " Dave " <groups@...> wrote:

>

> Vickie, why do you think an oil based T subq wouldn't work well?

Just

> curious.

>

> I'd been using 5/8 or 1/2 " 27g to supposedly IM in either the

thigh or delt.

> I thought 5/8 " in the delt was definitely deep enough to be IM,

but I did

> notice sometimes that it seemed the needle could be jiggled side

to side

> without much pain, so maybe it wasn't IM, but subq after all.

Never had

> problems either way. Doc advised me to switch to 1 " in thigh

only, too much

> risk in the delts of nerves or abcess.

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

[mailto: ]

> On Behalf Of Vickie

> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:50 PM

>

> Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

>

>

>

> Phill,

> Interesting that Shippen does his sub-q even with an oil based

> solution. Doesn't seem like it would work well but who's to

say,eh?

> If ever goes to shots I would prefer he do them that way.

Good

> FYI, thanks. Vickie

>

>

> > > >

> > > > ,

> > > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to

a

> > > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into

> the

> > > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication

has

> to

> > > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more

> > tissue

> > > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this

potentially

> > for

> > > a

> > > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to

> > caues

> > > a

> > > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > > injections.

> > > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch

> syringe

> > is

> > > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25

> and

> > a

> > > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as

> > well.

> > > > Be Well, Vickie

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Hey Vickke,

> > >

> > > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-m

> > > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the

11/2

> > > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter one

> and

> > > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the one

> that

> > > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and

the

> > > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> > > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> > > Blessings,

> > > Roy

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I am the same way I read a lot and it stays with me yet I can't remember names.

My Dr. let me do shots every 3 days but not subQ he said I can use a small

needle and do them into my thigh. I tried some subQ in my belly and they burn

for a long time after 3 - 4 hrs. And I don't like this. Have you been to

these sites one is where Dr. is now posting.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/

And this site has about 5 Dr.'s posting off and on.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

A lot of dam good info comes from Dr. nco.

Phil

Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

Phil,

I have read most of Shippen's articles but hell, I read thousands of

different medical articles a month. After a while everything blends

together!

Shippen is not the end all be all of HRT. He's one highly

reconginsed man and certainly has done some positive things. My

concern is not only how well it absorbs...I think that has been

established. Another concern is, what else changes if anything?

Shppen is pretty convincing I will admit. If sub-q will prevent scar

tissue build up over time, that comes with years of IM injections,

yet still gives the same good results....wouldn't all Doc's be doing

them sub-q?

Just for giggles I'm going to start asking some Physcian friends of

mine. U of M has a swell medical library I can access.

I'm not arguing at all. I like things more clearly understood when

something strays from the norm is all. Call me strange.

Vickie

In , philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

wrote:

>

> Vickie I think Dr. Shippen " The Testosterone Syndorme " started

doing to him self to see if the testosterone would go into the blood

stream slower. It's in oil so it will last longer yet still we get

a spike 48 hrs. later that drives up Estradiol. He was using

200mg/ml Depo testosterone. In his book he was down on shots now he

found doing subQ it works better and there is less a problem with

Estradiol. Here is a link to the post one of him men were saying.

He dose half a shot in one side .18mls and .18mls on the other side

every 3 days.

> http://tinyurl.com/ffvzm

> Phil

>

>

> Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

> Dave,

> My thought on sub-q and oil based solutions is...Saline based

> solutions readily absorb in to tissues while oil based is meant to

> absorb much more slowly. I wonder how well the base absorbs when

> injected just under the skin. Several mentions have been made that

> it is done this way so I guess the old stand by...listen to your

Doc

> applies here. If oil bases will work fine sub-q it is a benefit in

> the long run. Vickie

>

> In , " Dave " <groups@> wrote:

> >

> > Vickie, why do you think an oil based T subq wouldn't work well?

> Just

> > curious.

> >

> > I'd been using 5/8 or 1/2 " 27g to supposedly IM in either the

> thigh or delt.

> > I thought 5/8 " in the delt was definitely deep enough to be IM,

> but I did

> > notice sometimes that it seemed the needle could be jiggled side

> to side

> > without much pain, so maybe it wasn't IM, but subq after all.

> Never had

> > problems either way. Doc advised me to switch to 1 " in thigh

> only, too much

> > risk in the delts of nerves or abcess.

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From:

> [mailto: ]

> > On Behalf Of Vickie

> > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:50 PM

> >

> > Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

> >

> >

> >

> > Phill,

> > Interesting that Shippen does his sub-q even with an oil based

> > solution. Doesn't seem like it would work well but who's to

> say,eh?

> > If ever goes to shots I would prefer he do them that way.

> Good

> > FYI, thanks. Vickie

> >

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > ,

> > > > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in

to

> a

> > > > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in

into

> > the

> > > > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication

> has

> > to

> > > > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes

more

> > > tissue

> > > > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this

> potentially

> > > for

> > > > a

> > > > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not

to

> > > caues

> > > > a

> > > > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > > > injections.

> > > > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch

> > syringe

> > > is

> > > > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1,

1.25

> > and

> > > a

> > > > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do

as

> > > well.

> > > > > Be Well, Vickie

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hey Vickke,

> > > >

> > > > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-

m

> > > > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the

> 11/2

> > > > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter

one

> > and

> > > > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the

one

> > that

> > > > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and

> the

> > > > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> > > > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> > > > Blessings,

> > > > Roy

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Yep

Phil

Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

Luer-Lock is just the name given to the screw adapted end of a

syringe. The end where needle is, is for screwing the syringe onto

say, an IV port for example. We seldom see a Luer-Lock on 1cc

syringes because they are rarely used to push IV meds. Most Iv push

doses are either too large in volume or diluted some to better

control their delivery.

Larger ones work well with big needles for poking the bubbles when

wall papering.... or for gluing those pesky small areas that never

seem to stick the first time! Do not try this with crazy glue..LOL!

Hey Phil....did ya watch Detroit whip them Yankees today?

Vickie

In , " Rich " <caliconine@...> wrote:

>

> I really don't get any sting from my T oil injections (0.4cc/wk of

> 200mg/cc T.cyp using a 25G, 1in needle.) Oh, I may have gotten a

> charley-horse from a (beginners') too tense muscle years ago, or

> inadvertently moving the needle around when I used to try to

aspirate

> with one hand, but the art of injection improves with repetition

over

> time.

>

> I've discovered the only time I personally get a -burning- from

> injections is always due to alcohol residues. If I really slobber

on

> the alcohol, I think enough soaks down into the skin that, even if

> the top surface seems dry, the alcohol down lower is just waiting

for

> the needle to push through and is drawn in and then burns like

hell.

> If you watch a nurse draw a blood sample, she will lightly dab the

> area once or maybe twice and thats it. I know we cover more area

with

> our IM injections but I think it still pays to go easy on the

> alcohol.

>

> I noticed the word " syringe " was in the original post title, and

if

> you mean syringe literally, I use a Luer-Slip 1cc syringe (not a

Luer-

> Lock syringe.) Thats because I switch from a larger needle for

> drawing and switch to a finer sharper needle for injecting. I find

> that it (seems to) take much less pressure to get the oil moving

in a

> 1cc syringe than something like a 3cc (that admittedly usually has

> the advantage of Luer-Lock). It seems like it takes more pressure

> pushing against the blunt bottom of the 3cc syringe (or maybe it

just

> seems that way because I can see the level of oil moving that much

> sooner in the 1cc.) And, yes, I've had the slip-on needle pop off

> during injection, exactly twice, out of my several years worth of

> injections. They were both from my earlier injections; one, I was

> either too lazy or forgetful to twist the disposable needle on

> sufficiently tight enough, and the second time I was using a

needle

> that was far too small for T oil and it couldn't take the

pressure.

> If you twist on a slip type needle appropriately enough onto a

Luer-

> slip syringe, it won't come off, not easily (try just yanking one

> off.)

> Rich

>

> (BTW, as a bit of trivia, a disposible 26G needle is available in

1/2

> and 5/8 inch length from BD, but the only place I could readily

order

> them was from the UK. A bit pricey after the Pounds Sterling

> exchange, but they do exist.)

>

>

> > >

> > > I am the same way I read a lot and it stays with me yet I

can't

> > remember names.

> > > My Dr. let me do shots every 3 days but not subQ he said I

can

> > use a small needle and do them into my thigh. I tried some subQ

in

> > my belly and they burn for a long time after 3 - 4 hrs. And I

> > don't like this. Have you been to these sites one is where Dr.

>

> > is now posting.

> > > http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/

> > > And this site has about 5 Dr.'s posting off and on.

> > > http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/

> > > A lot of dam good info comes from Dr. nco.

> > > Phil

> >

>

---------------------------------

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates

starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

That seems to be the conflict between the ideas of subjecting Testosterone:

On the one hand we have an oil based solution, designed to slow down the

absorption of the active drug, and yet we inject it into the muscles for

faster absorption into the bloodstream. Contradiction, isn't it?

The whole idea on subq injection appears to be to even more slowly release

the cypionate into the bloodstream to achieve less spikes and E2 conversion.

Tough call.

Does anyone know what Dr. Crisler thinks of this?

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Vickie

Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 9:06 PM

Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

Dave,

My thought on sub-q and oil based solutions is...Saline based

solutions readily absorb in to tissues while oil based is meant to

absorb much more slowly. I wonder how well the base absorbs when

injected just under the skin. Several mentions have been made that

it is done this way so I guess the old stand by...listen to your Doc

applies here. If oil bases will work fine sub-q it is a benefit in

the long run. Vickie

In @ <mailto: %40> ,

" Dave " <groups@...> wrote:

>

> Vickie, why do you think an oil based T subq wouldn't work well?

Just

> curious.

>

> I'd been using 5/8 or 1/2 " 27g to supposedly IM in either the

thigh or delt.

> I thought 5/8 " in the delt was definitely deep enough to be IM,

but I did

> notice sometimes that it seemed the needle could be jiggled side

to side

> without much pain, so maybe it wasn't IM, but subq after all.

Never had

> problems either way. Doc advised me to switch to 1 " in thigh

only, too much

> risk in the delts of nerves or abcess.

>

>

> _____

>

> From: @ <mailto: %40>

[mailto: @ <mailto: %40>

]

> On Behalf Of Vickie

> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:50 PM

> @ <mailto: %40>

> Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

>

>

>

> Phill,

> Interesting that Shippen does his sub-q even with an oil based

> solution. Doesn't seem like it would work well but who's to

say,eh?

> If ever goes to shots I would prefer he do them that way.

Good

> FYI, thanks. Vickie

>

>

> > > >

> > > > ,

> > > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in to

a

> > > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in into

> the

> > > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication

has

> to

> > > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes more

> > tissue

> > > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this

potentially

> > for

> > > a

> > > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not to

> > caues

> > > a

> > > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > > injections.

> > > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch

> syringe

> > is

> > > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1, 1.25

> and

> > a

> > > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do as

> > well.

> > > > Be Well, Vickie

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Hey Vickke,

> > >

> > > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-m

> > > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the

11/2

> > > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter one

> and

> > > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the one

> that

> > > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and

the

> > > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> > > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> > > Blessings,

> > > Roy

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Vickie- I asked before without you answering, and it's really just

curiousity on my behalf, but what's your interest in TRT? Are you a medical

professional, spouse of TRT patient, or.....?

I only ask because it's unusual to have a woman in the group, and you're so

knowledgable.

Thanks.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Vickie

Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 7:54 AM

Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

Phil,

I have read most of Shippen's articles but hell, I read thousands of

different medical articles a month. After a while everything blends

together!

Shippen is not the end all be all of HRT. He's one highly

reconginsed man and certainly has done some positive things. My

concern is not only how well it absorbs...I think that has been

established. Another concern is, what else changes if anything?

Shppen is pretty convincing I will admit. If sub-q will prevent scar

tissue build up over time, that comes with years of IM injections,

yet still gives the same good results....wouldn't all Doc's be doing

them sub-q?

Just for giggles I'm going to start asking some Physcian friends of

mine. U of M has a swell medical library I can access.

I'm not arguing at all. I like things more clearly understood when

something strays from the norm is all. Call me strange.

Vickie

In @ <mailto: %40> ,

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...>

wrote:

>

> Vickie I think Dr. Shippen " The Testosterone Syndorme " started

doing to him self to see if the testosterone would go into the blood

stream slower. It's in oil so it will last longer yet still we get

a spike 48 hrs. later that drives up Estradiol. He was using

200mg/ml Depo testosterone. In his book he was down on shots now he

found doing subQ it works better and there is less a problem with

Estradiol. Here is a link to the post one of him men were saying.

He dose half a shot in one side .18mls and .18mls on the other side

every 3 days.

> http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/ffvzm> com/ffvzm

> Phil

>

>

> Vickie <plp40@...> wrote:

> Dave,

> My thought on sub-q and oil based solutions is...Saline based

> solutions readily absorb in to tissues while oil based is meant to

> absorb much more slowly. I wonder how well the base absorbs when

> injected just under the skin. Several mentions have been made that

> it is done this way so I guess the old stand by...listen to your

Doc

> applies here. If oil bases will work fine sub-q it is a benefit in

> the long run. Vickie

>

> In @ <mailto: %40>

, " Dave " <groups@> wrote:

> >

> > Vickie, why do you think an oil based T subq wouldn't work well?

> Just

> > curious.

> >

> > I'd been using 5/8 or 1/2 " 27g to supposedly IM in either the

> thigh or delt.

> > I thought 5/8 " in the delt was definitely deep enough to be IM,

> but I did

> > notice sometimes that it seemed the needle could be jiggled side

> to side

> > without much pain, so maybe it wasn't IM, but subq after all.

> Never had

> > problems either way. Doc advised me to switch to 1 " in thigh

> only, too much

> > risk in the delts of nerves or abcess.

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: @ <mailto: %40>

> [mailto: @ <mailto: %40>

]

> > On Behalf Of Vickie

> > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:50 PM

> > @ <mailto: %40>

> > Subject: Re: Biweekly Shots? what syringe?

> >

> >

> >

> > Phill,

> > Interesting that Shippen does his sub-q even with an oil based

> > solution. Doesn't seem like it would work well but who's to

> say,eh?

> > If ever goes to shots I would prefer he do them that way.

> Good

> > FYI, thanks. Vickie

> >

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > ,

> > > > > You really shouldn't use a sub-q/TB syringe to inject in

to

> a

> > > > > muscle. The risk of blunting the needle or breakage in

into

> > the

> > > > > flesh is pretty steep. Not to mention that the medication

> has

> > to

> > > > > shoot out in an almost fine jet which in itself causes

more

> > > tissue

> > > > > irritiation. Don't forget, you guys are doing this

> potentially

> > > for

> > > > a

> > > > > life time...take very good care of your tissues so as not

to

> > > caues

> > > > a

> > > > > build up of scarring. Super-fines are not meant for deep

> > > > injections.

> > > > > Go with what Rich uses instead. a 23-25g 1 to 1.25 inch

> > syringe

> > > is

> > > > > the right size for IM injections. I think BD makes a 1,

1.25

> > and

> > > a

> > > > > 1.50 inch size. Ideally, buy 1.25 but the others will do

as

> > > well.

> > > > > Be Well, Vickie

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hey Vickke,

> > > >

> > > > What is wrong withi going with a 1ml 27g1/2 needele for intr-

m

> > > > Phil suggested it and I like the 1/2 in.much better than the

> 11/2

> > > > needle. I know there isn't as much damage with the shorter

one

> > and

> > > > I can see no difference with treatment. The nurse was the

one

> > that

> > > > gave me the 3ml 23G1 syringe. Using a larger one to pull and

> the

> > > > smaller needle to inject. She said in case I broke a needle I

> > > > would have something to pull out. Balooney! To that business.

> > > > Blessings,

> > > > Roy

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >