New member looking for advise

Posted May 6, 2006 · May 6, 2006

Hello,

I am new to the group. I found out three months ago that I was very

low in testosterone. The doctor said if not for the joint pain

symptoms I would have been diagnosed as Chronically Depressed (my

mood was very low at the time). I am 39 and have a non-descended

testicle, curiously enough.

I have had pain in every major joint(knees, hips, shoulders, lower

back, elbows) particularly the tendons in all cases. Even a 30 minute

walk would cause inflammation in the hip area and the knees. The

severity of these symptoms really picked up in the last six months

because of unusual work demands. Before this six months I was healing

one part of my body or other for the past 5 years (tried various

sporting activities only to quit because of tendonitis etc.).

My treatment schedule has been as follows:

- started with 5 ml of Androgel for 10 weeks - felt mentally better,

could work, the chronic pain subsided (lower back and hips)

- M.D. upped the dose to 7.5 for the last 4 weeks, keep activity

moderate (and I have)

I currently feel mentally very good. I look alot better, the muscle

tone came back and the belly sucked in. I can take walks but still

suffer the tendonitis but to a lesser extent.

I have a few questions if anyone cares to comment:

- Does spreading out the gel help absorption?

- Should I expect it to take months before the pain slowly disappears?

- I have read various posting responses that state that the

injections are better even though the test. level is good. Am I

interpretting this correctly.

I would appreciate if anyone has any advice or would like to converse

on the subject online.

Louis

Posted May 6, 2006 · May 6, 2006

Hi Louis and Welcome,

No if he gels work stay with them if the gels would have worked for me I would

have stayed on them. Doing shots for me works the best less pain in the joints

and muscles. Put the gel on after you shower first shave to be sure your dry.

Spread it on your upper arms and shoulders and down your back as far as you can

reach. But don't rub it in well let it dry from wet. I would eat then put on

my shirt.

You need to get your Total and Free T levels up in the upper 1/3 of your labs

range for a young man. And you need to have your Estradiol and Total E's

checked if high get them down to between 10 to 30 best at 20 high Estradiol will

keep you from feeling better. When you get your levels up and stable then the

body starts to undo the damage done by low T and your joints and muscles should

get much better. It takes time. If you can't get your levels up then you may

need to do shots. Try to get your Dr. to add HCG shots to your gel 250 IU's

every 3 days when you are stable. Doing this will keep your testis working and

make you feel much better.

Phil

louisjlarocque <louislarocque@...> wrote: Hello,

I am new to the group. I found out three months ago that I was very

low in testosterone. The doctor said if not for the joint pain

symptoms I would have been diagnosed as Chronically Depressed (my

mood was very low at the time). I am 39 and have a non-descended

testicle, curiously enough.

I have had pain in every major joint(knees, hips, shoulders, lower

back, elbows) particularly the tendons in all cases. Even a 30 minute

walk would cause inflammation in the hip area and the knees. The

severity of these symptoms really picked up in the last six months

because of unusual work demands. Before this six months I was healing

one part of my body or other for the past 5 years (tried various

sporting activities only to quit because of tendonitis etc.).

My treatment schedule has been as follows:

- started with 5 ml of Androgel for 10 weeks - felt mentally better,

could work, the chronic pain subsided (lower back and hips)

- M.D. upped the dose to 7.5 for the last 4 weeks, keep activity

moderate (and I have)

I currently feel mentally very good. I look alot better, the muscle

tone came back and the belly sucked in. I can take walks but still

suffer the tendonitis but to a lesser extent.

I have a few questions if anyone cares to comment:

- Does spreading out the gel help absorption?

- Should I expect it to take months before the pain slowly disappears?

- I have read various posting responses that state that the

injections are better even though the test. level is good. Am I

interpretting this correctly.

I would appreciate if anyone has any advice or would like to converse

on the subject online.

Louis

Posted May 6, 2006 · May 6, 2006

Aloha Louis and Phil and everyone!

Louis, I'd like to welcome you also. This message board has been a

real blessing for me as I JUST started TRT a little over a month

ago. I find it odd that at the VERY beginning of the board, we see

15 or so new members, but few of them post. It's a FACT that us guys

refuse to share our emotions with women easily and I have to

say " kudo's " to the moderator in keeping the ratio to about 20 men

to 1 woman (seems at MOST). Although I could be wrong and the

moderator has been fooled by 50% of the " men " who are REALLY

women!!! By the way it sounds though, this is the most Man-to-Man

board I've ever belonged to and I cannot think of a better subject

for it to be that way.

Sorry, that came out way too long.....

Just goes to show you how much I'VE changed since starting TRT.

Since (I believe) my Total " T " was 84, and I'm 50+, my doc had no

problem starting me on 200mgs every two weeks. Since then I've

learned it would be better to get 100mgs every week, but I'm (as

Phil said) " giving it time " .

I just wanted you to know that I agree with Phil for the most part

but I AM happy the doc started me with injections as it sounds WAY

to much of a hassle to add shaving my shoulders, partial back and

probably some of my chest along with my face! I hardly have time to

do THAT in the mornings.

I also wanted you and everyone to know that I too am feeling better

mentally and my chronic pain from THREE failed spine surgeries

doesn't hurt nearly as bad and my knee which I just had arthroscopic

surgery to " fix a torn meniscus " feels completely normal now.

This TRT does absolutely wonderful things for us, however, if you DO

have worn cartelige(sp?) or genuine tendonitis, bursitis or any of

the other " itis's " (arthritis for example), I don't think TRT will

help heal that completely. It WILL aleviate some of the pain, though.

As far as your non-decending testicle goes, I was just

wondering...have you had it examined by a doc to see if it is a

normally developed testicle that just didn't drop? Or is it more or

less a " dead " testicle that isn't producing " T " or sperm or other

things that we know and don't know about????

If it ISN'T a normally functioning testicle, that is a question I

have to leave to someone who knows more about it than me. Can a man

have normal " T " levels with one testicle just like we can have

normal adrenal functions with one kidney? Does it affect fertility

in any way if it isn't functioning?

I've always wondered about that and the ONLY reason I bring that up

is because back when my friends were returning from Viet Nam,

(grrr), some came back whole, and some didn't (NONE came back the

same as when they left, however). One did lose his left leg, part of

his hip and shrapnel mangled his genitalia leaving him able to have

sex (barely)with one testicle and I never got the chance to ask him

this question (I don't think he REALLY felt like talking about it at

the time. Thems were much different times, weren't they vets and

civi's?

Aloha for now,

Wayne

Hello,

>

> I am new to the group. I found out three months ago that I was

very

> low in testosterone. The doctor said if not for the joint pain

> symptoms I would have been diagnosed as Chronically Depressed (my

> mood was very low at the time). I am 39 and have a non-descended

> testicle, curiously enough.

>

> I have had pain in every major joint(knees, hips, shoulders, lower

> back, elbows) particularly the tendons in all cases. Even a 30

minute

> walk would cause inflammation in the hip area and the knees. The

> severity of these symptoms really picked up in the last six months

> because of unusual work demands. Before this six months I was

healing

> one part of my body or other for the past 5 years (tried various

> sporting activities only to quit because of tendonitis etc.).

>

> My treatment schedule has been as follows:

>

> - started with 5 ml of Androgel for 10 weeks - felt mentally

better,

> could work, the chronic pain subsided (lower back and hips)

> - M.D. upped the dose to 7.5 for the last 4 weeks, keep activity

> moderate (and I have)

>

> I currently feel mentally very good. I look alot better, the

muscle

> tone came back and the belly sucked in. I can take walks but still

> suffer the tendonitis but to a lesser extent.

>

> I have a few questions if anyone cares to comment:

>

> - Does spreading out the gel help absorption?

> - Should I expect it to take months before the pain slowly

disappears?

> - I have read various posting responses that state that the

> injections are better even though the test. level is good. Am I

> interpretting this correctly.

>

> I would appreciate if anyone has any advice or would like to

converse

> on the subject online.

>

> Louis

>

Posted May 6, 2006 · May 6, 2006

Welcome to the group louis. I understand your symptoms

except for the joint pains. I'm sure they will occur.

I was born with an undescended testicle and both are

smaller especially the one I had surgery on at age

nine.

That surgery should have been done before the age of

two. I wasn't even considered for hypogonadism after

the surgery nor was my T levels checked. I suffered

with serious depression all my life no joke. Even if

the THT helps with depression, it doesnt change the

lifestyle I have always been use towards and its

difficult to change.

I understand about the work situation. I haven't

worked in three years. I went on an interview recently

but I didn't get a call back which is cool I didn't

want to do that retail crap again.

I know if I do work the same situations will occur. I

will fall for a female I know I won't be able to talk

towards or if I do after research I will screw it up

because I never been in a relationship.

So you're not alone Louis. I always thought I was and

in a way I am.

If you can post some of your blood test that would be

cool as well. I'm also low and still trying to find

the right THT after nine months on various

medications.

--- louisjlarocque <louislarocque@...> wrote:

> Hello,

>

> I am new to the group. I found out three months ago

> that I was very

> low in testosterone. The doctor said if not for the

> joint pain

> symptoms I would have been diagnosed as Chronically

> Depressed (my

> mood was very low at the time). I am 39 and have a

> non-descended

> testicle, curiously enough.

>

> I have had pain in every major joint(knees, hips,

> shoulders, lower

> back, elbows) particularly the tendons in all cases.

> Even a 30 minute

> walk would cause inflammation in the hip area and

> the knees. The

> severity of these symptoms really picked up in the

> last six months

> because of unusual work demands. Before this six

> months I was healing

> one part of my body or other for the past 5 years

> (tried various

> sporting activities only to quit because of

> tendonitis etc.).

>

> My treatment schedule has been as follows:

>

> - started with 5 ml of Androgel for 10 weeks - felt

> mentally better,

> could work, the chronic pain subsided (lower back

> and hips)

> - M.D. upped the dose to 7.5 for the last 4 weeks,

> keep activity

> moderate (and I have)

>

> I currently feel mentally very good. I look alot

> better, the muscle

> tone came back and the belly sucked in. I can take

> walks but still

> suffer the tendonitis but to a lesser extent.

>

> I have a few questions if anyone cares to comment:

>

> - Does spreading out the gel help absorption?

> - Should I expect it to take months before the pain

> slowly disappears?

> - I have read various posting responses that state

> that the

> injections are better even though the test. level is

> good. Am I

> interpretting this correctly.

>

> I would appreciate if anyone has any advice or would

> like to converse

> on the subject online.

>

> Louis

>

__________________________________________________

Posted May 6, 2006 · May 6, 2006

Hi elliot this is my first post on here

i had both testicles undescended till age of 22,my parents never realised and no

one else did either,at puberty when in school showers i saw i was differant to

all other males in regard to my testicles,i had no idea why and assumed i was

half male/half female or something.

i then got even more bullied than i had before and of course boys told girls and

that meant i got called names and attacked by both girls and boys

teachers always told me off for being lethargic or lazy

at age 37 3 years ago after many sackings from jobs and bad education life etc i

was diagnosed aspergers syndrome,since then also mild dyslexia/dyspraxia and

ADD.

all these can have a part to play in my extreme lethargy.

i go out for 5 hours i need 3 days to recouparate and have done all my life ,i

live with my parrents and my dad at 75 is only just beginning to catch up with

me.

my testosterone i hasd tested two years ago as i beleived low testosterone

throughout my whole life may also have an effect.

my doctor said very little he said " its 10.5 which is low side of normal "

i have had always again with the other problems extreme moods/lack of interest

in sport[not a problem lol],no work or career desires/no ambitions/sexual energy

lacking and also cant actually manage intercourse with my gf,it took me 40 years

to get a gf btw.

i was told in compaering with USA figures a 12.5 figure equates to in us terms

to whats normal and would be getting help ,in UK nothing.

i am going to doc tomorrrow and press for the tests again and hoepfully this

time even if still 10.5 some help will be available.

i think lethargy/moods and so on will always be there with me ,due to the other

conditions but i at least want to know that i can get some help.

btw i finally admitted to my problems with testicles at age 22,when i had a

brreakdown ,i got both descended by a private surgeon as our NHS though free was

going to have me wait another 2-3 years,i was given no counslelling or support

for the orchidpexy? no one told me anything about the operation or any risks

,any problems i may be having dues to not having testosterone pumping around

properly at puberty etc.

i dont even remember any hormonal changes at puberty i sayed pretty much same

,ok voice chnaged and i got real hairy,but my moods and behavoirs ,urges sexual

etc stayed the same as ever,i never went through the massive teenage hormonal

changes that others went through.

i am a very emotional easliy upset and overloaded person .

regards paul

Re: New member looking for advise

Welcome to the group louis. I understand your symptoms

except for the joint pains.

Posted May 7, 2006 · May 7, 2006

i was told in past on another long gone group

my 10.5 is nmo/l?

and 10 nmo/l equates to 300 ng/dl in US terms so i am only slightly over the 300

mark which unless i am wrong is classed as low in USA?

is this the case?

regards paul

Re: New member looking for advise

Hi elliot this is my first post on here

i

Posted May 7, 2006 · May 7, 2006

Hi and Welcome,

Your numbers are normal for a man 85 to 100 yrs. of age. This link has ranges

by age.

http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

Tell the dam Dr. to treat your symptoms not your test ranges.

Also here is a converter.

http://www.get-back-on-track.com/en/tools/umrechner.php

You need to have your Total and Free T in the upper 1/3 of your labs range for

a young man. And you need your Estradiol tested and keep this between 10 to 30

in US units.

Here it's all in this link.

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-130.html

Also go to the home page and on the left side is a links and files sectoing

full of info go there and read and learn the more you know the better you can

handle your Dr.

Phil

paul wey <promachief@...> wrote:

i was told in past on another long gone group

my 10.5 is nmo/l?

and 10 nmo/l equates to 300 ng/dl in US terms so i am only slightly over the 300

mark which unless i am wrong is classed as low in USA?

is this the case?

regards paul

Re: New member looking for advise

Hi elliot this is my first post on here

i

Posted May 7, 2006 · May 7, 2006

thanks

yes as said dad is 75 and he is now getting to be as tired as me,dozing off

,memoy going etc,moods and so on,well i have been like it since age of 6!!!!

took me till age 37 to find out about why some of the problems i have are

down,or partially down to the varrious neurologigal problems i have and indeed

the symptoms are quite common in others i know with aspergers /add and so on,but

i do seem to be far worse than the other guys i know in terms of lethargy and

non interest in most things,and am sure it has something to do witnh the

additional undescended testicles till age 22,i may be wrong but i cant help

feeling thats a problem.

trouble is with my memory and learning problems i keep asking same questions

ofgten about anything and it wares people down,including me,no one listens ,all

doctor says is " well its all down to your dysprraxia and aspergers " and keeps

saying well 10.5 is low side of normal,and somehow thats goood!!

to be just in the so called normal range on uk figures that is,does not give me

much comfort i can tell you,i am scared of doctors etc and have a lot of

emotional/sexual/mental problems in dealing with many people let alon doctors.

but since januarryt after fighting for 3 years and being classed as priority fo

2 years but still no staff available i have now got a phycologist i see weekly

and she listens and is great,and i talk to her about all me sexual and other

problems and testorsteron i have now mentioned to her,i am hopiung she now she

knows me well,and she sure does she can write to my doctor if i have any more

problems.

trouble is i have an additional problem they wont deal with or take sreriously.

i have a very long foreskin that does not pull back past glans as it should,and

again i am told ok its a bit tight but not a problem,well to me it is,and has

caused me problems when it has got stuck behind the glans giving me immenses

pain,this also makes my girl touching me or others and indeed attemoting

intercourse emotionally a bit scary,and does not help.

i did not want a circ as i have many sensitivity issues with my whole body and

touching is a problem but i wanted a prepuceplasty and i got wheeled in last

april by surgeon put out and then i woke up and was told doctor had decided not

to go ahead with the operation as it was not too bad.

since then i have been too scared to go to doctor much as i feel i waste there

time,but i need him to listen.

in uk you can change doctors but its hard work and indeed both the above mens

sexual health problems are not takne seriously by most doctors so i will prob

get another the same,nice enough people but dont take me seriously,i think i am

too hard work for them.

regards paul

nice to know i am in my 80s btw,i have been told before but as said in uk ,i am

low side of normal and that means no help unless you hsave money,whixch not

being able to work anymore i dont.

i tried working for 17 yes and keep getting sacked for many reasons and

basically i feel like i am a retired senior citizen, i go out on day trips on

coaches with elderly sometimes as i have the time,and some of them are far more

active than i ever have been,i fidn a place to sit,eat and sleep ,they go all

over the place.

anyway rant over i just hope in 3 hours time the doc at least does all the tests

again.

Re: New member looking for advise

Hi and Welcome,

Your numbers are normal for a man 85 to 100 yrs. of age. This link has ranges

by age.

http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

Posted May 8, 2006 · May 8, 2006

just got back from doctor,i go for blood tests again next tuesday

but again he says weight is the problem,which i accpet is part of the problem

but if it was not for the fact all my life as long as i remember i have had very

little energy,which got worse from 11 upwards to 40 [now] then i would not be so

anxious/nervous/weak willed and turn to food for comfort and always feel

hungry[well most of time]

so the weight is a sign of the problems not the cause,for some it will be

drugs/smoking/alcohol/high spending ,either one or all or a mixture forr me its

the eating and spending as well,treat peoples problems and there addictions will

in many cases go away.

just saying " lose weight " is no help to anyone i feel

certainly from age 11 at senior school most teachers started saying i was

lethargic if they liked me and lazy if they did not.

they had no idea the turmoil i was going through not sure if i wsas male or

female becase i had no visible testicles and was then bullied for it,no idea all

the apsergers/dyspaxic and ADD problems.

i was lazy as i paid little attention,though intellegent,had bad co ordination

and temper probmes but no one really saw these as signs of help needed,easier to

mock me i think they assumed.

so if results for testosterone come back 10-13 then i will definately seek more

action,if its higher this time then i may be persuafed my low energy and tempers

etc are purely down to the other issues i have.

regards paul

is there any endroconolgist on this group who will back the figures on that

website for me,as my doctor again just says " the web is full of incorrect info "

dont beleive it all.

Re: New member looking for advise

Hi and Welcome,

Posted May 8, 2006 · May 8, 2006

If you can go to this site and join it is in the UK and Nick O'Hara can

help you get on T meds and find you a Dr. that will help.

http://www.androids.org.uk/

On the right side in red " New " Join.

To talk to Nick on the left side click on his name. He can help you talk to

him.

Go to this site in the UK and talk to Nick's friend Big Al.

http://www.andropause.org.uk/newforum/forum_frameset.htm

Phil

paul wey <promachief@...> wrote: thanks