Re: Struggling for answers almost a year now.

July 22, 2006

Hello and I am glad you are HERE!

Although your tale may feel unique, it is not in a way - you have

experienced poor medical treatment and care from day 1. 250-350 is

NOT appropriate level for someone your age (at 34 - I am 38) and you

are seeing the symptoms of hypogonadism - poor concentration, no

libido, no memory, fatigue/energy issues, depression, anxiety, etc.

You need to try to find a good doctor who you trust in this area of

special care (many here are doubtful of endos., but I am not sure

who else to suggest) and have them run a full battery of hormonal

tests - LH, FSH, E2, T4, T3, TSH, SHBG, Free T, Total T, Prolactin,

possibly MRI of pituitary, if needed, just to start. When you get

these results, re-post.

It also sounds like you do have some financial and marital concerns,

as well, perhaps driving some of the depression. I would remain

under doctor's care for this - especially given the suicidal

thoughts during times of depression - this truly needs monitoring by

a professional and if ever you feel this way, please call your doc.

or check yourself into an ER.

I hope you will find relief - equipping yourself with information, a

good doctor for low T, care for depressive episodes if reoccuring

and a commitment to solve this issue - will help you tremendously.

We will all be here for the journey. Welcome.

Blessings,

Bill

>

> Let me start by saying that this is one of the only spots I have

been

> able to find that has anyone remotely going through what I am going

> through...and I am extremely grateful for that. This will be a long

> post, so I apologise in advance for that, but I really don't have

> anyone else to tell it to and I am so desperate for some kind of

> familiarity. The best way for me to tell it is by a timeline I

think....

>

> It started last year in approximately April...I had an immediate

> symptom. My erections were almost immediately half strength...I had

> been having issues with my wife, and I thought that it was

something

> emotional, but even in the past I have had issues and been able to

> have full erections all my life, so I didn't know what was going

on. I

> didn't have any other symptom, so I didn't think a lot of it, but

> through the next month...same thing. Every single erection was

about

> half strength. Not only that, but I was unable to keep this 50%

> erection for a decent duration. After a bit, I went to my doctor

and

> he gave me a sample of Cialis....it helped me get better erections,

> but it wouldnt get better. After another month, he did some

bloodwork

> and the results came back low testosterone. This was about July

1st. I

> get free/total confused, but the number was 240. He said that it

> should be around at least 280-1100 for my age (34)

>

> I was just recovering from a tonsilectomy...and got the lab paper

that

> said to come in to discuss it. I was totally unaware of what it

> meant...and really didn't feel any symptoms at all other than the

> erection problems. When he told me that I needed testosterone

therapy

> and the problems I would have, I was so confused. He prescribed me

> Testim gel and I got the prescription. I was told that I had

> hypogonadism and it was irreversable and I would need the therapy

for

> life. It was a 5mg tube and I started the next morning. Within a

few

> hours, I started shaking...trembling is more like it, and just

started

> feeling like crap. Also, started getting what I guess are 'hot

> flashes' the back of my ears, behind my arms, back of my neck, and

my

> testicles 'burned' with quick short bursts of heat. I was super

> depressed and also, my taste buds started going bad, everything I

ate

> was tasteless...After 4 days, nothing had changed and I made an

> appointment. My doctor said that I was just depressed and gave me a

> Lexapro sample. That very night...I could not sleep at all...It is

> like my mind would not 'turn off' and I felt 'needles' all over.

> Anyways...I was so scared about what was happening, that I stopped

> taking anything. I didn't sleep but maybe an hour each night after

> that. The next 4 days, my wife had to take me to the ER because I

was

> suicidal...The best way to describe it was like I was living in

Hell

> and my mind was tortured constantly. In the evenings, it lessened

but

> never got 'normal' I had never ever felt so depressed in all my

life.

> I spent a day in the hospital and they let me go because that

night I

> leveled out, and they felt the sleep deprivation was causing my

mental

> issues. The morning I was out of my mind, the night I seemed to get

> better.

>

> The sleep never changed, and I had to start taking meds to sleep. I

> was also still depressed....mood was totally rock bottom...cried

for

> no reasons, had no energy, started praying to die of any reason. I

> didnt keep taking the testosterone treatment, went to a counselor.

She

> said that she had to address my sleep first. She prescribed me

> Seraquil and it helped me sleep, but without it, I couldn't sleep.

I

> had my testosterone level checked later and it was about 275. They

> told me that it was just under normal, so I was ok.

>

> After about a month, I kinda leveled out to a point where I was

taking

> meds to sleep....still do....but wasn't depressed enough to feel

like

> I wanted to die. I was on a low dose of antidepressant (Celexa

20mg).

> She changed my sleeping pill to Remeron (30mg) It was supposedly an

> antidepressant with sleepy side effects. She thought it was best

for

> me. This is about November '05. During all this time...I was

between

> jobs and had to pay for everything. Luckily, I was on a sliding

scale

> based on pay, and my wife could make all of our bills. Looking

back, I

> could not have possibly held a job. Mid December, I was feeling

about

> 70% normal. Never got the erection back to full and sex with us

became

> short. I didn't really want sex like I used to, but still did it

out

> of habit I think. My wife and I were going through some issues

also.

> Life was great.... Back to feeling a little normal...I was so

> frustrated about the 'low testosterone' diagnosis, got to see an

> indocrinologist....tested again....he said my 'serum?' testosterone

> was about 310....and that I didn't need therapy. Still....I didn't

> feel normal and couldn't find answers....No energy, couldn't sleep

> without a pill, no motivation, memory fading, my mood

was....neutral.

> Never really want to do anything, just sit around until time to go

to

> bed. Going to be d was both welcome and a nightmare. But at that

time,

> at least I could function. ***Flashback to when I saw the doctor

about

> the testim*** he said that I should try Angrogel instead....was too

> scared to try to take it. But I kept the bottle***back to mid

> December*** I decided to see my doctor again and he suggested that

> maybe the dose of Testim was too strong and that I should try a

squirt

> or two of Angrogel...he said that it was more accepted by the body

he

> thought. Still not feeling normal and wondering if I ever would, I

> decided Dec 29th to start on one squirt a morning (1.25 mg I

believe)

> Was anticipating those things that happened when I took Testim, but

> didn't really feel it....To keep you up to my mood....still felt

> terrible in the morn but by about 5PM I felt closer to normal than

any

> other time. Still had constant " tremors " They never went away. So

at

> this point, I had decided to ween myself off of the antidepressants

> because A. I never ever needed them in my past....no history of

> depression with me, and honestly felt that there was something else

> wrong with me....still do. B. I couldn't remember a difference when

> taking them or not. So I am not on Celexa anymore....still on the

> Remeron for sleep...and begin a squirt a day of Androgel. Don't

feel

> better....dont feel worse. My sister gives me her Ambien to help me

> sleep. It works good for me so I keep it. After a week of one

squirt,

> I did like my doctor said and increased to 2 squirts....(2.5mg

> Androgel) No bad feelings...only a hint...ever so slightly of

the 'hot

> flashes' start....actually, I think I had those even at one squirt

but

> they are not nowhere near as intense as the 5mg Testim....and to be

> honest...even long after quitting the Testim, they persisted....If

I

> recall correctly...up to 6 weeks before I didn't notice them

anymore.

> ( Sorry to be jumping so much in the timeframe, but Im not a good

> writer ) After a total of 20 days...10 days 1 squirt, 10 days 2

> squirts, I have trouble trying to sleep, even taking Remeron, and

get

> scared that it may be the Testosterone so I quit cold turkey. The

> intense, but almost 2X as much as I was already in....feeling like

I

> wish I was dead again...praying for a heart attack...praying to

have

> an accident while driving...and crying for no reason. This goes on

for

> about 2 weeks and I seem to level back out to 'normal' Puts me to

Mid

> Feb...

>

July 22, 2006

Part 2....( sorry too long )

At that point, I am not taking Testosterone, only 15 mg of Remeron

sometimes to sleep....Ambien others, but I still couldn't sleep on my

own....Without any meds at all, my symptoms were this: No motivation,

apathy, no energy, insomnia, memory probs, but at least " stable "

Another testosterone test at this time reveals me to be about

315....never tested above that during all tests....but the other

measure....Free or Total, was high...the smaller number I want to say

19. Nothing changes at this time...my mood is always the same, not

good in the morning, 4-5 PM it gets better...not great, but

better...at least I start doing very small things I enjoy like watch

movies, play games with my kids (video games as I didnt really have

any energy) Mid march....not on the Remeron at all...only AmbienCR for

sleep. It works, but I only sleep 6 hours max. But still...I used to

fight for 3-4 hours and the 6 is better than never sleeping. From that

point I have to get a job, couldn't just rot away, and I was hoping

the routine would help and honestly, we needed the money badly....I

was a burden on my family and wife and Never in my life had been like

that. I got work in sales ( my whole work history was in sales ) I had

to put on a fake smile and 'act' happy at work to pass myself off, and

even felt semi-happy at times, but mainly couldn't wait for the day to

end so I could come home and wish things would change.

I'm still employed there and do a decent job, but I am not half the

man I used to be prior to April last year. I was always happy,

uplifting, and positive mood continuously. I still only have 50% an

erection, and can't sustain it for long at all. On rare occasions, I

actually 'want' sex, but usually do it out of habit. My mood is good

enough to pass off to everyone that I am just a dull guy. My memory is

terrible...I have to write down things all day or I forget. I never

had any of those issues before. And it was litterally overnight that

they changed. I have no idea what my testosterone level was before

April last year.....Thats horrible that males don't have that charted

at least once per 5 years when growing up, if only for a reference

point. I think that my vocal chords are thinner....I was in a band and

used to sing, and cant' hit the lower keys I used to, and also my

'falsetto' voice is almost totally gone. If I don't take anything or

change anything...I think I could function for the rest of my life,

but I have no zest for life, I dont look forward to anything, I just

exist. I want my old self back, to have spontaneous sex, and be able

to perform in it....to have a good memory/concentration....to be happy

instead of 'blah' To participate in my family life again instead of go

to work, come home, sit a bit, take a sleeping pill, repeat.

Does anything sound familiar to any of you? Please give some advice. I

am going to my doctor this week to get a refill on my Ambien and I am

going to request another Testosterone test. If it is in the 300ish

range, does anyone live normally at that level? I know that this is

not normal for me though....I hate to think that I may never get back

to normal. My theory is that when I took the Testim, it was like a

catalyst for something, and when I stopped, my system crashed....maybe

Testim was wrong for me. Maybe I interrupted some sort of process with

it. I just don't know. But honestly....prior to taking the Testim, my

only symptom was the erection prob. After taking that, quitting it in

4 days, and until now....my life has never been the same. I never,

ever had a single depressed feeling in my body, ever prior to that. I

just don't believe that I am suffering from depression as I have

friends/family that have been and didnt' suffer like I have.

Chris

P.S I did get the replies but the original message wasn't approved yet

and couldn't post part 2..

July 22, 2006

>

> Hello and I am glad you are HERE!

>

> Although your tale may feel unique, it is not in a way - you have

> experienced poor medical treatment and care from day 1. 250-350 is

> NOT appropriate level for someone your age (at 34 - I am 38) and you

> are seeing the symptoms of hypogonadism - poor concentration, no

> libido, no memory, fatigue/energy issues, depression, anxiety, etc.

>

> You need to try to find a good doctor who you trust in this area of

> special care (many here are doubtful of endos., but I am not sure

> who else to suggest) and have them run a full battery of hormonal

> tests - LH, FSH, E2, T4, T3, TSH, SHBG, Free T, Total T, Prolactin,

> possibly MRI of pituitary, if needed, just to start. When you get

> these results, re-post.

>

> It also sounds like you do have some financial and marital concerns,

> as well, perhaps driving some of the depression. I would remain

> under doctor's care for this - especially given the suicidal

> thoughts during times of depression - this truly needs monitoring by

> a professional and if ever you feel this way, please call your doc.

> or check yourself into an ER.

>

> I hope you will find relief - equipping yourself with information, a

> good doctor for low T, care for depressive episodes if reoccuring

> and a commitment to solve this issue - will help you tremendously.

>

> We will all be here for the journey. Welcome.

>

> Blessings,

> Bill

>

> Thanks for the kind words, Bill and Phil. Is there a doctor that

subscribes to this board in the Memphis, TN area? I'm looking at a

list of endos from the www.androids.com site that are here in memphis,

but have yet to actually see a doctor recommended by anyone...

Chris

>

July 22, 2006

Thanks for the continuance of the story - confirms my thinking even

more!!

I am a big proponent of university medical centers - have your tried

networking through the UT Memphis Medical Center and the

Reproductive Endocrinology unit (Google helped me - I don't know

TN)?? Might be a good place to ask who the doctor is who treats

(and researches and trains young residents/med. school students) the

majority of men with this issues??

Most certainly, stay away from PCP or general practitioners....

Bill

> >

> > Hello and I am glad you are HERE!

> >

> > Although your tale may feel unique, it is not in a way - you

have

> > experienced poor medical treatment and care from day 1. 250-350

is

> > NOT appropriate level for someone your age (at 34 - I am 38) and

you

> > are seeing the symptoms of hypogonadism - poor concentration, no

> > libido, no memory, fatigue/energy issues, depression, anxiety,

etc.

> >

> > You need to try to find a good doctor who you trust in this area

of

> > special care (many here are doubtful of endos., but I am not

sure

> > who else to suggest) and have them run a full battery of

hormonal

> > tests - LH, FSH, E2, T4, T3, TSH, SHBG, Free T, Total T,

Prolactin,

> > possibly MRI of pituitary, if needed, just to start. When you

get

> > these results, re-post.

> >

> > It also sounds like you do have some financial and marital

concerns,

> > as well, perhaps driving some of the depression. I would remain

> > under doctor's care for this - especially given the suicidal

> > thoughts during times of depression - this truly needs

monitoring by

> > a professional and if ever you feel this way, please call your

doc.

> > or check yourself into an ER.

> >

> > I hope you will find relief - equipping yourself with

information, a

> > good doctor for low T, care for depressive episodes if

reoccuring

> > and a commitment to solve this issue - will help you

tremendously.

> >

> > We will all be here for the journey. Welcome.

> >

> > Blessings,

> > Bill

> >

> > Thanks for the kind words, Bill and Phil. Is there a doctor that

> subscribes to this board in the Memphis, TN area? I'm looking at a

> list of endos from the www.androids.com site that are here in

memphis,

> but have yet to actually see a doctor recommended by anyone...

>

> Chris

> >

>

July 22, 2006

Hi Chirs I stand on my first post to you and sent you a post on how to find a

Dr. but first ask your Dr. that you going to see if he will treat you working

with Dr. over the phone. Dr. does this and will have you up to your

old self in no time and teach your Dr. how to treat low T and what can cause it.

www.allthingsmale.com of if you are near Mi. drive up to see him. I know guys

that fly to see him because he is one of the best.

Please find out why your low before going on T meds.

Phil

vaiisking1026 <vaiisking@...> wrote: