Re: Shrinking (Atrophy) Question.

June 26, 2006

Hey - first, don't be embarrassed to talk about anything here. We all have

issues and you won't be ridiculed for it. If you are not getting adequate

amounts of testosterone, not only do you have no libido, you don't get erections

like you should so yes, your penis seems smaller. Once you get your Total T

corrected you should see things get back to normal and while flacid, it will

still be fuller. If you still have problems after you get your hormones

stabilized, consider using Cialis on a low dose bases. I use 1/4th of a pill (5

mgs) twice a week and it keeps me ready to go.

Arkansas

Prunty <allen@...> wrote:

I am totally embarrased to talk about this on a webgroup. I don't have

testicle atrophy, but my penis seems to have shrank. I mean when flacid it's not

even an inch big. I am on the starter dose of testim and I was praying it would

grow a bit... I am embarrassed to date because I am embarrassed that she would

want to do something and I would not be able to rise to the occasion.

I am also embarrassed to talk to my doctor about this... I just don't know how

to approach her.

Re: Shrinking (Atrophy) Question.

According to a literature search, the average size of human testicle is 18-20

cubic centimeters. That is approximately the size of a pecan shell included.

Extreme would be 30 cc. When I was a teen and in my 20's, mine were average

size. Since becoming hypogonadic and on TRT, they have reduced by approximately

50% or the size of a grape. I am considering HCG to keep them functioning on

some level and I think there is a lot we don't know that a LH analog could do

for you. Do you need to take it all the time? I don't know. Possibly considering

a two month regime with HCG and TRT then a 4 month period of TRT only.

Arkansas

Liam <patrolbase19@...> wrote:

Phil can chime in on this one too.

,

According to the AACE guidelines there is no treatment

for atrophy except to discontinue HRT. HCG and clomid

are not a treatment method but more of a testing

regimen to determine primary or secondary

hypogonadism. Does this sound stupid?? Indeed!! HcG

and clomid have been used for years without side

effect on probably several million men seeking

fertility. The sport of body building has been using

them for over 30 or so years to recover from steriod

cycles with 0% side effects. Personally, after 2 years

of HRT I've seen a 50% reduction in size. That's

noticable and I'm sure it will continue!

Sorry to be the wet blanket.

LD

--- james186282 <pillow@...> wrote:

> I've spoken to my Doctor about my concerns over my

> testicular atrophy.

> He agreed that I was having a problem with this but

> suggested it

> might not continue or that it would be so slow as to

> not be noticable.

> Can anyone give me a clear idea what the " norm " is

> for this? Phil (I

> think) said expect a set of rasins in 15 to 20

> years. Is that pretty

> standard?

>

> BTW I know about Clomid and HCG. Talked to my Docs

> and they say no

> way for me. <sigh>

>

June 26, 2006

Great advice!!!!!!!

Bill

On Jun 26, 2006, at 9:53 PM, Dan Meatheany wrote:

> Hey - first, don't be embarrassed to talk about anything here.

> We all have issues and you won't be ridiculed for it. If you are not

> getting adequate amounts of testosterone, not only do you have no

> libido, you don't get erections like you should so yes, your penis

> seems smaller. Once you get your Total T corrected you should see

> things get back to normal and while flacid, it will still be fuller.

> If you still have problems after you get your hormones stabilized,

> consider using Cialis on a low dose bases. I use 1/4th of a pill (5

> mgs) twice a week and it keeps me ready to go.

>

> Arkansas

>

> Prunty <allen@...> wrote:

> I am totally embarrased to talk about this on a webgroup. I don't

> have testicle atrophy, but my penis seems to have shrank. I mean when

> flacid it's not even an inch big. I am on the starter dose of testim

> and I was praying it would grow a bit... I am embarrassed to date

> because I am embarrassed that she would want to do something and I

> would not be able to rise to the occasion.

>

> I am also embarrassed to talk to my doctor about this... I just don't

> know how to approach her.

>

> Re: Shrinking (Atrophy) Question.

>

> According to a literature search, the average size of human testicle

> is 18-20 cubic centimeters. That is approximately the size of a pecan

> shell included. Extreme would be 30 cc. When I was a teen and in my

> 20's, mine were average size. Since becoming hypogonadic and on TRT,

> they have reduced by approximately 50% or the size of a grape. I am

> considering HCG to keep them functioning on some level and I think

> there is a lot we don't know that a LH analog could do for you. Do you

> need to take it all the time? I don't know. Possibly considering a two

> month regime with HCG and TRT then a 4 month period of TRT only.

>

> Arkansas

>

> Liam <patrolbase19@...> wrote:

> Phil can chime in on this one too.

>

> ,

>

> According to the AACE guidelines there is no treatment

> for atrophy except to discontinue HRT. HCG and clomid

> are not a treatment method but more of a testing

> regimen to determine primary or secondary

> hypogonadism. Does this sound stupid?? Indeed!! HcG

> and clomid have been used for years without side

> effect on probably several million men seeking

> fertility. The sport of body building has been using

> them for over 30 or so years to recover from steriod

> cycles with 0% side effects. Personally, after 2 years

> of HRT I've seen a 50% reduction in size. That's

> noticable and I'm sure it will continue!

>

> Sorry to be the wet blanket.

>

> LD

>

> --- james186282 <pillow@...> wrote:

>

> > I've spoken to my Doctor about my concerns over my

> > testicular atrophy.

> > He agreed that I was having a problem with this but

> > suggested it

> > might not continue or that it would be so slow as to

> > not be noticable.

> > Can anyone give me a clear idea what the " norm " is

> > for this? Phil (I

> > think) said expect a set of rasins in 15 to 20

> > years. Is that pretty

> > standard?

> >

> > BTW I know about Clomid and HCG. Talked to my Docs

> > and they say no

> > way for me. <sigh>

> >

June 27, 2006

Good that you feel good and your levels are about 700 I would always get tested

just at 24 hrs after my last time useing it. Once I went 35 hrs. and my test

came back 300 points down. You can put the gel on and don't get it near the

spot where the blood it taken. If you wait 2 to 4 hrs and get the best reading.

As for E I hope you mean E2 I only say this because we get in the habit

wrighting E or Estrogen and when we ask for the Test we say the wrong word you

need Estradiol " E2 " checked.

Phil

james186282 <pillow@...> wrote:

I've asked my Doctor to always test E and she agreed. I also

occasionaly check DHEA and Progesterone. These both seem ok. BTW I

know what the insert says about Androgel becoming a steady state thing

but I don't believe its as stable as they say. Due to weird work

skeds and the times available for labs I was going 29 to 30 hours from

androgel application to tests and they were always pretty borderline

low. The last series I did was after 8 hours and I got a nice healthy

reading in the 700s. And I feel great btw!

> > > >

> > > > > I've spoken to my Doctor about my concerns over my

> > > > > testicular atrophy.

> > > > > He agreed that I was having a problem with this but

> > > > > suggested it

> > > > > might not continue or that it would be so slow as to

> > > > > not be noticable.

> > > > > Can anyone give me a clear idea what the " norm " is

> > > > > for this? Phil (I

> > > > > think) said expect a set of rasins in 15 to 20

> > > > > years. Is that pretty

> > > > > standard?

> > > > >

> > > > > BTW I know about Clomid and HCG. Talked to my Docs

> > > > > and they say no

> > > > > way for me.

> > > > >

June 27, 2006

Yes, 29 to 30 hours is too long. I was about 400 points down and the

funny thing is that the dippy lab still thinks 289 is " ok " <shudder>

Yes, I meant Estradiol. So far thats not been a problem for me which

is good. My doc is (I think?) not keen on arimidex.

> > > > >

> > > > > > I've spoken to my Doctor about my concerns over my

> > > > > > testicular atrophy.

> > > > > > He agreed that I was having a problem with this but

> > > > > > suggested it

> > > > > > might not continue or that it would be so slow as to

> > > > > > not be noticable.

> > > > > > Can anyone give me a clear idea what the " norm " is

> > > > > > for this? Phil (I

> > > > > > think) said expect a set of rasins in 15 to 20

> > > > > > years. Is that pretty

> > > > > > standard?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BTW I know about Clomid and HCG. Talked to my Docs

> > > > > > and they say no

> > > > > > way for me.

> > > > > >

June 27, 2006

Well if your E2 goes up over 40 you can buy OTC Indolplex/DIM if you ever do let

me know and I can tell you how to do it so you don't go to low.

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

Phil

james186282 <pillow@...> wrote:

Yes, 29 to 30 hours is too long. I was about 400 points down and the

funny thing is that the dippy lab still thinks 289 is " ok "

Yes, I meant Estradiol. So far thats not been a problem for me which

is good. My doc is (I think?) not keen on arimidex.

> > > > >

> > > > > > I've spoken to my Doctor about my concerns over my

> > > > > > testicular atrophy.

> > > > > > He agreed that I was having a problem with this but

> > > > > > suggested it

> > > > > > might not continue or that it would be so slow as to

> > > > > > not be noticable.

> > > > > > Can anyone give me a clear idea what the " norm " is

> > > > > > for this? Phil (I

> > > > > > think) said expect a set of rasins in 15 to 20

> > > > > > years. Is that pretty

> > > > > > standard?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BTW I know about Clomid and HCG. Talked to my Docs

> > > > > > and they say no

> > > > > > way for me.

> > > > > >

June 27, 2006

I know the feeling of having very small testes. If I get on HCG let the

medication further lower them but only if it increases my length. No chick is

going to complain about small testes but nice . Rather, chicks love to

complain when the length isnt what they expect. Blah to size .

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: Well

if your E2 goes up over 40 you can buy OTC Indolplex/DIM if you ever do let me

know and I can tell you how to do it so you don't go to low.

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

Phil

james186282 <pillow@...> wrote:

Yes, 29 to 30 hours is too long. I was about 400 points down and the

funny thing is that the dippy lab still thinks 289 is " ok "

Yes, I meant Estradiol. So far thats not been a problem for me which

is good. My doc is (I think?) not keen on arimidex.

> > > > >

> > > > > > I've spoken to my Doctor about my concerns over my

> > > > > > testicular atrophy.

> > > > > > He agreed that I was having a problem with this but

> > > > > > suggested it

> > > > > > might not continue or that it would be so slow as to

> > > > > > not be noticable.

> > > > > > Can anyone give me a clear idea what the " norm " is

> > > > > > for this? Phil (I

> > > > > > think) said expect a set of rasins in 15 to 20

> > > > > > years. Is that pretty

> > > > > > standard?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BTW I know about Clomid and HCG. Talked to my Docs

> > > > > > and they say no

> > > > > > way for me.

> > > > > >

June 27, 2006

,

If it bothers you then it's important to find a solution. Phil's solution of

taking HcG may solve your problem and get the jewels back to the appropriate

karat size. Personally, I'm not extremely concerned about testicular atrophy at

this point. I concerned about gynoclamastia!!! And that is definitely a " chick "

thing!

L

james186282 <pillow@...> wrote:

Hi LD:

I've been on HRT for almost that long and I was trying to guesstimate

the shrinkage. I was going to say by a 3rd but volume wise it maybe

closer to 1/2 as your seeing.

I know it may sound more like a " chick " thing but I am bothered by it.

>

> > I've spoken to my Doctor about my concerns over my

> > testicular atrophy.

> > He agreed that I was having a problem with this but

> > suggested it

> > might not continue or that it would be so slow as to

> > not be noticable.

> > Can anyone give me a clear idea what the " norm " is

> > for this? Phil (I

> > think) said expect a set of rasins in 15 to 20

> > years. Is that pretty

> > standard?

> >

> > BTW I know about Clomid and HCG. Talked to my Docs

> > and they say no

> > way for me.

> >

June 27, 2006

Liam it's not just about the Jewels adding HCG brought my libido back up and is

stimulating outher LH cells in my body and brain that are not working because

HPTA is shut down. This is why most get a feeling of well being after a shot of

HCG.

Phil

Liam <patrolbase19@...> wrote:

,

If it bothers you then it's important to find a solution. Phil's solution of

taking HcG may solve your problem and get the jewels back to the appropriate

karat size. Personally, I'm not extremely concerned about testicular atrophy at

this point. I concerned about gynoclamastia!!! And that is definitely a " chick "

thing!

L

james186282

wrote:

Hi LD:

I've been on HRT for almost that long and I was trying to guesstimate

the shrinkage. I was going to say by a 3rd but volume wise it maybe

closer to 1/2 as your seeing.

I know it may sound more like a " chick " thing but I am bothered by it.

>

> > I've spoken to my Doctor about my concerns over my

> > testicular atrophy.

> > He agreed that I was having a problem with this but

> > suggested it

> > might not continue or that it would be so slow as to

> > not be noticable.

> > Can anyone give me a clear idea what the " norm " is

> > for this? Phil (I

> > think) said expect a set of rasins in 15 to 20

> > years. Is that pretty

> > standard?

> >

> > BTW I know about Clomid and HCG. Talked to my Docs

> > and they say no

> > way for me.

> >

June 27, 2006

Elliot if you take HCG your testis will not get smaller but can get bigger and

come back up to normal size. If your T levels are low and your Estradiol is

high your penis will look a lot small in the soft state. Getting Estradiol down

helps T levels go up some good amount my Free T went from low normal to high

normal.

Phil

ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

I know the feeling of having very small testes. If I get on HCG let the

medication further lower them but only if it increases my length. No chick is

going to complain about small testes but nice . Rather, chicks love to complain

when the length isnt what they expect. Blah to size .

philip georgian

wrote: Well if your E2 goes up over 40 you can buy OTC Indolplex/DIM if you ever

do let me know and I can tell you how to do it so you don't go to low.

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

Phil

james186282

wrote:

Yes, 29 to 30 hours is too long. I was about 400 points down and the

funny thing is that the dippy lab still thinks 289 is " ok "

Yes, I meant Estradiol. So far thats not been a problem for me which

is good. My doc is (I think?) not keen on arimidex.

> > > > >

> > > > > > I've spoken to my Doctor about my concerns over my

> > > > > > testicular atrophy.

> > > > > > He agreed that I was having a problem with this but

> > > > > > suggested it

> > > > > > might not continue or that it would be so slow as to

> > > > > > not be noticable.

> > > > > > Can anyone give me a clear idea what the " norm " is

> > > > > > for this? Phil (I

> > > > > > think) said expect a set of rasins in 15 to 20

> > > > > > years. Is that pretty

> > > > > > standard?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BTW I know about Clomid and HCG. Talked to my Docs

> > > > > > and they say no

> > > > > > way for me.

> > > > > >

June 28, 2006

Oh yeah! reading you loud and clear about the benefits of HcG. I only wish my

doc would let me experience those benefits.

L

philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

Liam it's not just about the Jewels adding HCG brought my libido back up and

is stimulating outher LH cells in my body and brain that are not working because

HPTA is shut down. This is why most get a feeling of well being after a shot of

HCG.

Phil

Liam

wrote:

,

If it bothers you then it's important to find a solution. Phil's solution of

taking HcG may solve your problem and get the jewels back to the appropriate

karat size. Personally, I'm not extremely concerned about testicular atrophy at

this point. I concerned about gynoclamastia!!! And that is definitely a " chick "

thing!

L

james186282

wrote:

Hi LD:

I've been on HRT for almost that long and I was trying to guesstimate

the shrinkage. I was going to say by a 3rd but volume wise it maybe

closer to 1/2 as your seeing.

I know it may sound more like a " chick " thing but I am bothered by it.

>

> > I've spoken to my Doctor about my concerns over my

> > testicular atrophy.

> > He agreed that I was having a problem with this but

> > suggested it

> > might not continue or that it would be so slow as to

> > not be noticable.

> > Can anyone give me a clear idea what the " norm " is

> > for this? Phil (I

> > think) said expect a set of rasins in 15 to 20

> > years. Is that pretty

> > standard?

> >

> > BTW I know about Clomid and HCG. Talked to my Docs

> > and they say no

> > way for me.

> >

June 28, 2006

I'm curious what is HPTA???

> Liam it's not just about the Jewels adding HCG brought my libido

back up and is stimulating outher LH cells in my body and brain that

are not working because HPTA is shut down. This is why most get a

feeling of well being after a shot of HCG.

> Phil

June 29, 2006

here is a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPTA

Phil

james186282 <pillow@...> wrote:

I'm curious what is HPTA???

> Liam it's not just about the Jewels adding HCG brought my libido

back up and is stimulating outher LH cells in my body and brain that

are not working because HPTA is shut down. This is why most get a

feeling of well being after a shot of HCG.

> Phil

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