Re: Starting TRT

November 9, 2006

I applaud your diligence and commitment to getting this resolved.

Bravo! You are asking the right questions and taking the right

steps.

I ABSOLUTELY believe that you need to find another doctor. While it

sounds like your doctor is " sort-of OK " , he is far from aggressive

and does not listen to your continued issues. You should not have

suffered this long.

Please don't self-medicate but find quality care, not matter the

distance. You did the right thing going on the Androgel and I think

the questions below are typical and usual response to Androgel and

stopping of the LH/FSH/T production in self.

Start asking around and looking today for the best endo. doctor you

possibly can find with experience in Hypogonadism - do you know if

you are primary or secondary? All Endos are NOT created equally.

When you present yourself to a new doctor, go " light " on bringng

up/documenting depression issues, unless they are truly significant

medical concern to you. I have found if you tell a doctor or endo.

that you have experienced depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts or

panic in the past and/or have been on or are on medication, the docs

are VERY QUICK to label you as depressive first and hyogon. second -

when treatment doesn't work, they always blame failure on

your " depressive state " or " depression medications " . Don't take this

as an answer ever, as depression in most cases is an result, but not

the root. You perhaps should work with a psychiartist too who can

work with the endo.

If you feel you have hypogonadism, get into it, get all the test,

get the very best care you can find and start to address your limbo

siutation.

You have all my best hopes and blessings,

Bill

>

> Hey guys...been a few weeks since I posted.

>

> Some of you have known me and I've posted many things regarding my

> issues the past year and a half that have kept me feeling

> insane...chronic insomnia, depressed mood, memory , horrible,

> , trembling, no motivation, 50% erections, (at one point suicidal

> thoughts)..and how I tried the Testim at first (4 days...crashed)

and

> then was given Androgel that I was really too scared to try.

Well...I

> had kept it in my drawers for a long time.

>

> On my most recent post I explained how I went to a new endo and

that

> he suggested I go on Lexapro for 2 months and come back to tell

him if

> it made any difference and then he would re-test my testosterone (

was

> about 310 on 3 average tests ) to see if it were getting any

better.

> Some of you guys kinda joked at what he thought would happen to

make

> it get better and I agree...it's been over 1 1/2 year and nothing

> seems to just improve when you have hypogonadism. I had an MRI

Monday

> for pituitary and no word yet, but here is the reason for my post.

>

> Last Friday, I was at one of the lowest moods again that I have

been

> in...the constant struggle to maintain a decent mood for the past

year

> 1/2 is just like a constant torture. I didn't even have the

motivation

> to go to work...this was after the failed Lexapro stint, that

pushed

> my depressed mood deeper...and I was pretty much out of options for

> how to cope. I got out the old Androgel and showered and started

> myself on 5 gms/day. (4 pumps) After about 3 hours, I started

> increasing mood. Pretty much since last Friday I have had one of

the

> most stable mood patterns in a long time. I'm not 'chipper' but

much

> more towards happy than I have been.

>

> Questions: 1. I get a jittery reaction about 30 mins after

application

> that seems to die down thru the day. 2. My testicles have a low

dull

> pain at times. 3. I get sensations of adrenaline....or it's like I

was

> just scared by someone, but I don't feel scared except my heart

> started racing for a little bit and slows down. 4. On the 5th day

of

> it, I had a pretty good erection...maybe 75% of what I remember

total

> erection strength was, but only once.

>

> I know everyone is opposed to self medication, but I was at my wits

> end. I have about a 2 week supply left and I am going back to my

endo

> to tell him what I did and get him to either start me on shots or

> continue the gel for me. At this point, my only concerns are to get

> more towards feeling normal. Thinking of trying 7.5 gms here

> soon...day or two to see if anymore gel makes a difference. Or

maybe 5

> squirts ( 6.25 gms )If I do the shots...what is the best

> recommendations? I don't mind to do self admin if he will let me.

My

> last test showed my FSH to be low...1.4 ( 1-12)and LH to be low too

> 3.0 (2-12) My cortisol was high in my opinion too 17 (3-21)

Prolaction

> was ok 6.3 (3-20) and SHBG was low in my opinion 13 (11-80).

> Testosterone was done 2x to get average...test one 247...test two

314.

> He did not think it was important to check E2 as I told him

> everything I have read and he just wouldn't think on it. I even

> printed out the SERMS pamphlet because I believe I am secondary, my

> testicles are normal sized and firm, I just don't put out enough

FSH

> LH signal due to whatever. My Thyroid tests were on the lowest

normal

> side too. Hopefully the MRI results will come in soon.

>

> Keep in mind these result were for a 35 yr old.

>

> As always, God Bless.

>

> Chris

>

November 9, 2006

Hey - I know you have had a long road to get to where you are but I think

you are finally at the crossroad. Here is my opinion based on what I have read

so take them for what you think its worth - Only you should make a decision to

change:

First it seems to me you are somewhat anxious about this which is

understandable. I think some of your symptoms may be psycological and whether we

want to admit it, it plays a big role in how we percive things. An example of

this was I had ED for so long that I was sure I wouldn't be able to keep an

erection even on TRT. I was able to use cialis as a crutch somewhat but it was

really a mind game on my part. The whole reason for all the above is we have to

be ready for this and it sounds like you are there.

The dull pain in the groin is common as the T is causing changes to your

testicles and this area if full of receptors for T. I think the other symptoms

you described are anxiety related. You are going to have to keep telling

yourself that increasing the amount of T will feel different. Its not what you

are use to. Secondly, if for some unusual reason you get to feeling out of

control, discuss this with someone ahead of time and be prepared to call them no

matter what the time. If you get to feeling suicidal again (which I do not

expect) call them immediately and get help. Take it day by day and it will not

be something that will correct itself overnight. It took me over a year to get

close. Keep us informed. Based on your results from 5 gms of androgel, which is

usually not enough for a lot of us, go slowly in increments and don't change too

quickly. Most changes take ~ 4-6 weeks to stabilize so I would only recommend

making a change in 4-6 week increments. I know you

want to get there but it is also important to not overshoot which can cause a

whole other set of problems.

Good Luck and Stay in Touch - Arkansas

vaiisking1026 <vaiisking@...> wrote:

Hey guys...been a few weeks since I posted.

Some of you have known me and I've posted many things regarding my

issues the past year and a half that have kept me feeling

insane...chronic insomnia, depressed mood, memory , horrible,

, trembling, no motivation, 50% erections, (at one point suicidal

thoughts)..and how I tried the Testim at first (4 days...crashed) and

then was given Androgel that I was really too scared to try. Well...I

had kept it in my drawers for a long time.

On my most recent post I explained how I went to a new endo and that

he suggested I go on Lexapro for 2 months and come back to tell him if

it made any difference and then he would re-test my testosterone ( was

about 310 on 3 average tests ) to see if it were getting any better.

Some of you guys kinda joked at what he thought would happen to make

it get better and I agree...it's been over 1 1/2 year and nothing

seems to just improve when you have hypogonadism. I had an MRI Monday

for pituitary and no word yet, but here is the reason for my post.

Last Friday, I was at one of the lowest moods again that I have been

in...the constant struggle to maintain a decent mood for the past year

1/2 is just like a constant torture. I didn't even have the motivation

to go to work...this was after the failed Lexapro stint, that pushed

my depressed mood deeper...and I was pretty much out of options for

how to cope. I got out the old Androgel and showered and started

myself on 5 gms/day. (4 pumps) After about 3 hours, I started

increasing mood. Pretty much since last Friday I have had one of the

most stable mood patterns in a long time. I'm not 'chipper' but much

more towards happy than I have been.

Questions: 1. I get a jittery reaction about 30 mins after application

that seems to die down thru the day. 2. My testicles have a low dull

pain at times. 3. I get sensations of adrenaline....or it's like I was

just scared by someone, but I don't feel scared except my heart

started racing for a little bit and slows down. 4. On the 5th day of

it, I had a pretty good erection...maybe 75% of what I remember total

erection strength was, but only once.

I know everyone is opposed to self medication, but I was at my wits

end. I have about a 2 week supply left and I am going back to my endo

to tell him what I did and get him to either start me on shots or

continue the gel for me. At this point, my only concerns are to get

more towards feeling normal. Thinking of trying 7.5 gms here

soon...day or two to see if anymore gel makes a difference. Or maybe 5

squirts ( 6.25 gms )If I do the shots...what is the best

recommendations? I don't mind to do self admin if he will let me. My

last test showed my FSH to be low...1.4 ( 1-12)and LH to be low too

3.0 (2-12) My cortisol was high in my opinion too 17 (3-21) Prolaction

was ok 6.3 (3-20) and SHBG was low in my opinion 13 (11-80).

Testosterone was done 2x to get average...test one 247...test two 314.

He did not think it was important to check E2 as I told him

everything I have read and he just wouldn't think on it. I even

printed out the SERMS pamphlet because I believe I am secondary, my

testicles are normal sized and firm, I just don't put out enough FSH

LH signal due to whatever. My Thyroid tests were on the lowest normal

side too. Hopefully the MRI results will come in soon.

Keep in mind these result were for a 35 yr old.

As always, God Bless.

Chris

---------------------------------

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November 9, 2006

Hi Chirs,

Your cortisol is not to high if this was a morning test. I feel you are

Secondary or your E2 is so high your brain is not sending the LH and FSH to your

testis to make more T. You see the brain can't tell the difference between E2

and T so if your high on E2 it thinks it's T. Your Dr. is wrong to not test

this. Here is a link on this and it can happen to a man your age.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm

The feelings your having will get better as you get your T levels up it takes

a long time to get back first you need to get your levels up and stable then

your body starts to undo the damage done by being low for so long.

I went through the same crap your going through I was treated for Major

Depression on every kind of AD drug on the market for over 5 yrs. before they

found the problem was not depression but low T.

You started on 5 g's of gel keep this up for 2 weeks and get tested if your

levels are not up to the upper 1/3 of your labs range for a young man the up the

dose. Most do much better at 10g's.

If you do shots start with a 100mg. shot and do them every week.

For more info on treating this go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A

Recipe for Success and the HCG update.

Phil

vaiisking1026 <vaiisking@...> wrote: Hey guys...been a few

weeks since I posted.