Re: Difference between Androgel and Testim

[Guest guest]

I feel is androgel did not work Testim will not. Some men don't do good on gels

I am one of them. Switch to shots start at 100mgs a week and when you get

stable add HCG to the mix to keep your testis from getting smaller. Go

www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and the HCG Update.

Phil

ozzpat <ozzmed@...> wrote:

Hey guys, I'm still battling what will work best for me as TRT

treatment. I was on Androderm at first, this worked out really good

for me except for the skin issues so I switched to Androgel, this has

had no affect for me even when increasing the dose 2X. My levels where

good when I was taking an incorrect dose of HCG (with the androgel)

but when we reduced this dose down to the 250iu maintenance dose I

should have been on (was on 6500iu) I crashed badly my doctor just had

me double my dose of Androgel this has had no affect.

I went to another Endo.. today and he wants me to try Testim. Is there

anyone here who has switched from Androgel to Testim? I'm apprehensive

about trying this and going through another month feeling like crap.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with Phil. " If one is a poor absorber, always a

poor absorber. " I didn't do well with Androgel and had similar T

levels with Testim (I too did slightly better on Androderm)

Blessings,

Bill

> Hey guys, I'm still battling what will work best for me

as TRT

> treatment. I was on Androderm at first, this worked out really good

> for me except for the skin issues so I switched to Androgel, this

has

> had no affect for me even when increasing the dose 2X. My levels

where

> good when I was taking an incorrect dose of HCG (with the androgel)

> but when we reduced this dose down to the 250iu maintenance dose I

> should have been on (was on 6500iu) I crashed badly my doctor just

had

> me double my dose of Androgel this has had no affect.

>

> I went to another Endo.. today and he wants me to try Testim. Is

there

> anyone here who has switched from Androgel to Testim? I'm

apprehensive

> about trying this and going through another month feeling like

crap.

>

> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

> Hey guys, I'm still battling what will work best for me as TRT

> treatment. I was on Androderm at first, this worked out really good

> for me except for the skin issues so I switched to Androgel, this has

> had no affect for me even when increasing the dose 2X. My levels where

> good when I was taking an incorrect dose of HCG (with the androgel)

> but when we reduced this dose down to the 250iu maintenance dose I

> should have been on (was on 6500iu) I crashed badly my doctor just had

> me double my dose of Androgel this has had no affect.

>

> I went to another Endo.. today and he wants me to try Testim. Is there

> anyone here who has switched from Androgel to Testim? I'm apprehensive

> about trying this and going through another month feeling like crap.

>

> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks guys, I have found finding a good doctor to be imposable in my area,

at least the one I talked to yesterday told me he had very little to no

experience as did the other five members of his practice but insisted that I

shouldn't be doing HCG with T to maintain what I have. But was impressed

that being on five months of TRT my boys are 100% normal size. This doctor

had all the important credentials AACE PAACE has written all types of papers

on this stuff but has no real experience :/

I don't understand these people why should I have to give up what works??

And what will be the long term affects on my health for doing so. He also

wouldn't discuss or test E2 I told him about the affects the DIM had on me

after a few days of taking it, I even had my wife next to me (who was

sceptical about OTC) who was amazed with the results. My flushing went to

20%, ED issues went to 20% and I felt much better.

I was told " we don't look at E2 " We don't use HCG for secondary hipogonadism

so another one fired!

I have a doctor now who will work with me but has 0 experience in this area

so I was hoping to find someone who could give me some validation in my

treatment and who would be willing to monitor me with more experience in

what to look for.

I'm gong to talk to the doctor who is treating me and have her switch me to

shots and see how that goes maybe I can talk her into some Arimatrex for the

E2 we will see.

My wife and I are thinking of taking a trip up north to see Dr. does

anyone here actually go to him?

On 12/28/06, vaiisking1026 <vaiisking@...> wrote:

>

>

> > Hey guys, I'm still battling what will work best for me as TRT

> > treatment. I was on Androderm at first, this worked out really good

> > for me except for the skin issues so I switched to Androgel, this has

> > had no affect for me even when increasing the dose 2X. My levels where

> > good when I was taking an incorrect dose of HCG (with the androgel)

> > but when we reduced this dose down to the 250iu maintenance dose I

> > should have been on (was on 6500iu) I crashed badly my doctor just had

> > me double my dose of Androgel this has had no affect.

> >

> > I went to another Endo.. today and he wants me to try Testim. Is there

> > anyone here who has switched from Androgel to Testim? I'm apprehensive

> > about trying this and going through another month feeling like crap.

> >

> > Any help would be greatly appreciated.

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

stop trying to figure this out your E2 is dam high and I don't care what

you take shots, andorgel or testim even compounded cream. If you don't get your

dam E2 down your going to feel like shit. Every thing your feeling is not the T

your doing but the E2 it's high and adding TRT makes it higher this is why you

feel like your on a roller coaste ride. Your not using this group right we post

to help new men not go through what we did. When I first joined this group I

went back and started reading all he posts ones that did not look like my

problem I skiped. Your doing gels did not feel better switched to shots still

not feeling better now your back to gels did not feel better now your lowering

the dose shit this is worse. Your Dam Dr. is not up on TRT if he will not test

and treat E2. Kick him to the curb or just treat your self. Going from one

thing to the next is not good you need a good 2 months on a different form of

TRT to give it time to work. And this is

with E2 at a good level. High E2 will make you feel shaky, nervous, anxiety

even Panic Attacks not to mention ED, skin rashs, feeling hot with cold sweats

and loss of libido with bad brain fog.

Phil

vaiisking1026 <vaiisking@...> wrote:

> Hey guys, I'm still battling what will work best for me as TRT

> treatment. I was on Androderm at first, this worked out really good

> for me except for the skin issues so I switched to Androgel, this has

> had no affect for me even when increasing the dose 2X. My levels where

> good when I was taking an incorrect dose of HCG (with the androgel)

> but when we reduced this dose down to the 250iu maintenance dose I

> should have been on (was on 6500iu) I crashed badly my doctor just had

> me double my dose of Androgel this has had no affect.

>

> I went to another Endo.. today and he wants me to try Testim. Is there

> anyone here who has switched from Androgel to Testim? I'm apprehensive

> about trying this and going through another month feeling like crap.

>

> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Pat you don't need to come here to MI. to See Dr. just find a good family

Dr. that will work with him over the phone. Then call Kim at his web site and

set it up. www.allthingsmale.com. Tell him Phil sent you.

Phil

Osborne <ozzmed@...> wrote:

Thanks guys, I have found finding a good doctor to be imposable in my

area,

at least the one I talked to yesterday told me he had very little to no

experience as did the other five members of his practice but insisted that I

shouldn't be doing HCG with T to maintain what I have. But was impressed

that being on five months of TRT my boys are 100% normal size. This doctor

had all the important credentials AACE PAACE has written all types of papers

on this stuff but has no real experience :/

I don't understand these people why should I have to give up what works??

And what will be the long term affects on my health for doing so. He also

wouldn't discuss or test E2 I told him about the affects the DIM had on me

after a few days of taking it, I even had my wife next to me (who was

sceptical about OTC) who was amazed with the results. My flushing went to

20%, ED issues went to 20% and I felt much better.

I was told " we don't look at E2 " We don't use HCG for secondary hipogonadism

so another one fired!

I have a doctor now who will work with me but has 0 experience in this area

so I was hoping to find someone who could give me some validation in my

treatment and who would be willing to monitor me with more experience in

what to look for.

I'm gong to talk to the doctor who is treating me and have her switch me to

shots and see how that goes maybe I can talk her into some Arimatrex for the

E2 we will see.

My wife and I are thinking of taking a trip up north to see Dr. does

anyone here actually go to him?

On 12/28/06, vaiisking1026 <vaiisking@...> wrote:

>

>

> > Hey guys, I'm still battling what will work best for me as TRT

> > treatment. I was on Androderm at first, this worked out really good

> > for me except for the skin issues so I switched to Androgel, this has

> > had no affect for me even when increasing the dose 2X. My levels where

> > good when I was taking an incorrect dose of HCG (with the androgel)

> > but when we reduced this dose down to the 250iu maintenance dose I

> > should have been on (was on 6500iu) I crashed badly my doctor just had

> > me double my dose of Androgel this has had no affect.

> >

> > I went to another Endo.. today and he wants me to try Testim. Is there

> > anyone here who has switched from Androgel to Testim? I'm apprehensive

> > about trying this and going through another month feeling like crap.

> >

> > Any help would be greatly appreciated.

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 04:18:50 -0000, you wrote:

>I totally agree with Phil. " If one is a poor absorber, always a

>poor absorber. " I didn't do well with Androgel and had similar T

>levels with Testim (I too did slightly better on Androderm)

>

>Blessings,

But the converse is not true. I tried gels for a time and in the

beginning they worked well. But as the T grabbed hold over the year my

skin thickened and I grew hair in the application areas and the result

was my T levels fell from 750 to 400.

I went back to shots - but weekly to avoid the cycling issues.

Gel for me was bothersome. It meant daily showers. It meant trying to

coordinate application with activities - I swim a mile several times a

week, in the good weather I bike hard to where I sweat all the gel

away. Trying to figure out if I should apply in the morning when I

planned to bike in the afternoon or swim, etc. got annoying. Forget

issues like camping in cold weather with gel. Great fun to get up in

35 degree weather and wash off old gel and apply new.

-----

" Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the

power to make you commit atrocities. " - Voltaire

[Guest guest]

Thank you for all the information, regarding the E2 issues everyone talks

about here, I had a major crash when doing a switch in meds.. my doctor just

told me to do more meds that did not help at all I got some DIM and I could

not believe the difference it actually makes, I'm sold 100% that this needs

to be kept in control and any doctor that tells me any different I have no

use for any more.

I have been at this for a little over four months and in that time I have

been to five different doctors and have not become discouraged nor will I. I

spent ten years trying to figure out what was wrong and being misdiagnosed

by many doctors and now that I know what the problem is and have felt what

its like to feel better I have a totally different view of my own medical

care. People need to be proactive and read every bit of (legitimate)

material they can get there hands on and take there health care into there

own hands.

I know this book has been pushed here in this forum but I'll do it again for

those who haven't seen it.

The Testosterone Syndrom by Eugine Shippen

http://www.amazon.com/Testosterone-Syndrome-Eugene-Shippen/dp/087131858X

It is a great start in trying to understand these issues.

Phil, I'm going to call Dr. s office this week and see if he works with

any doctors in my area. My GP is useless maybe they know someone in my area

that will be willing to work with him. If not my wife has some family up in

that area that we could visit if we need to.

On 12/28/06, retrogrouch@... <retrogrouch@...> wrote:

>

> On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 04:18:50 -0000, you wrote:

>

> >I totally agree with Phil. " If one is a poor absorber, always a

> >poor absorber. " I didn't do well with Androgel and had similar T

> >levels with Testim (I too did slightly better on Androderm)

> >

> >Blessings,

>

> But the converse is not true. I tried gels for a time and in the

> beginning they worked well. But as the T grabbed hold over the year my

> skin thickened and I grew hair in the application areas and the result

> was my T levels fell from 750 to 400.

>

> I went back to shots - but weekly to avoid the cycling issues.

>

> Gel for me was bothersome. It meant daily showers. It meant trying to

> coordinate application with activities - I swim a mile several times a

> week, in the good weather I bike hard to where I sweat all the gel

> away. Trying to figure out if I should apply in the morning when I

> planned to bike in the afternoon or swim, etc. got annoying. Forget

> issues like camping in cold weather with gel. Great fun to get up in

> 35 degree weather and wash off old gel and apply new.

> -----

> " Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the

> power to make you commit atrocities. " - Voltaire

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > Hey guys, I'm still battling what will work best for me as TRT

> > treatment. I was on Androderm at first, this worked out really good

> > for me except for the skin issues so I switched to Androgel, this has

> > had no affect for me even when increasing the dose 2X. My levels where

> > good when I was taking an incorrect dose of HCG (with the androgel)

> > but when we reduced this dose down to the 250iu maintenance dose I

> > should have been on (was on 6500iu) I crashed badly my doctor just had

> > me double my dose of Androgel this has had no affect.

> >

> > I went to another Endo.. today and he wants me to try Testim. Is there

> > anyone here who has switched from Androgel to Testim? I'm apprehensive

> > about trying this and going through another month feeling like crap.

> >

> > Any help would be greatly appreciated.

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Dr. is just an 1.5 hour drive from my house I don't see him because my Dr.

is dam good and takes my BCBS. Yet my co-pay is about what Dr. charges for

a second office visit the first visit takes about 1.5 to 2 hrs. and the cost is

$300.00. A lot of guys drive to see him or fly in. The thing is finding the

right TRT then it's just blood work once in a wile. I find keeping my T levels

up into the upper 1/3 of the labs range for a young man and my E2 down between

10 to 30 best at 20 for me I do dam good. Dr. did say SHBG is low then E2

can be lower. My SHBG is very low so now I am keeping my E2 at 15. So far it's

much better.

Phil

Osborne <ozzmed@...> wrote:

Thank you for all the information, regarding the E2 issues everyone

talks

about here, I had a major crash when doing a switch in meds.. my doctor just

told me to do more meds that did not help at all I got some DIM and I could

not believe the difference it actually makes, I'm sold 100% that this needs

to be kept in control and any doctor that tells me any different I have no

use for any more.

I have been at this for a little over four months and in that time I have

been to five different doctors and have not become discouraged nor will I. I

spent ten years trying to figure out what was wrong and being misdiagnosed

by many doctors and now that I know what the problem is and have felt what

its like to feel better I have a totally different view of my own medical

care. People need to be proactive and read every bit of (legitimate)

material they can get there hands on and take there health care into there

own hands.

I know this book has been pushed here in this forum but I'll do it again for

those who haven't seen it.

The Testosterone Syndrom by Eugine Shippen

http://www.amazon.com/Testosterone-Syndrome-Eugene-Shippen/dp/087131858X

It is a great start in trying to understand these issues.

Phil, I'm going to call Dr. s office this week and see if he works with

any doctors in my area. My GP is useless maybe they know someone in my area

that will be willing to work with him. If not my wife has some family up in

that area that we could visit if we need to.

On 12/28/06, retrogrouch@... <retrogrouch@...> wrote:

>

> On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 04:18:50 -0000, you wrote:

>

> >I totally agree with Phil. " If one is a poor absorber, always a

> >poor absorber. " I didn't do well with Androgel and had similar T

> >levels with Testim (I too did slightly better on Androderm)

> >

> >Blessings,

>

> But the converse is not true. I tried gels for a time and in the

> beginning they worked well. But as the T grabbed hold over the year my

> skin thickened and I grew hair in the application areas and the result

> was my T levels fell from 750 to 400.

>

> I went back to shots - but weekly to avoid the cycling issues.

>

> Gel for me was bothersome. It meant daily showers. It meant trying to

> coordinate application with activities - I swim a mile several times a

> week, in the good weather I bike hard to where I sweat all the gel

> away. Trying to figure out if I should apply in the morning when I

> planned to bike in the afternoon or swim, etc. got annoying. Forget

> issues like camping in cold weather with gel. Great fun to get up in

> 35 degree weather and wash off old gel and apply new.

> -----

> " Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the

> power to make you commit atrocities. " - Voltaire

>

>

[Guest guest]

I knew it your E2 had to be this high because of how your feeling and it may

take some time for it to come down on DIM. I was this high and it took Arimidex

to get it down I took .5 mgs everyday and it came down in 2 weeks. I feel the

DIM will do this just can't say how fast. Gels made my E2 go up faster then

shots yet when you do a shot with E2 this high it goes even higher after the

shot them comes back down some as you get near you next shot. The gels will

bring it up and keep it up so no roller coaster ride. Once you get this E2

under control the shots would work much better. And if you did them 2 times a

week this is even better. Let me know when the Indolplex/DIM comes in so we can

work on this.

Phil

vaiisking1026 <vaiisking@...> wrote:

> > Hey guys, I'm still battling what will work best for me as TRT

> > treatment. I was on Androderm at first, this worked out really good

> > for me except for the skin issues so I switched to Androgel, this has

> > had no affect for me even when increasing the dose 2X. My levels where

> > good when I was taking an incorrect dose of HCG (with the androgel)

> > but when we reduced this dose down to the 250iu maintenance dose I

> > should have been on (was on 6500iu) I crashed badly my doctor just had

> > me double my dose of Androgel this has had no affect.

> >

> > I went to another Endo.. today and he wants me to try Testim. Is there

> > anyone here who has switched from Androgel to Testim? I'm apprehensive

> > about trying this and going through another month feeling like crap.

> >

> > Any help would be greatly appreciated.

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

> > > Hey guys, I'm still battling what will work best for me as TRT

> > > treatment. I was on Androderm at first, this worked out really good

> > > for me except for the skin issues so I switched to Androgel,

this has

> > > had no affect for me even when increasing the dose 2X. My levels

where

> > > good when I was taking an incorrect dose of HCG (with the androgel)

> > > but when we reduced this dose down to the 250iu maintenance dose I

> > > should have been on (was on 6500iu) I crashed badly my doctor

just had

> > > me double my dose of Androgel this has had no affect.

> > >

> > > I went to another Endo.. today and he wants me to try Testim. Is

there

> > > anyone here who has switched from Androgel to Testim? I'm

apprehensive

> > > about trying this and going through another month feeling like crap.

> > >

> > > Any help would be greatly appreciated.

> > >

> > > Thank you,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

The way I delt with My doctors lack of knowledge of this area was to go to

the ANDROPAUSE SOCIETY.COM and find and print out the information and take it to

my doc. I also periodically send him anything else I find such as a recent

article that guys with T deficiency also develop fragility and loose their

balance more!!

I'm making another appointment today to ask for a stronger mix (10%) in that

I find the 7.5% doesn't do the job. I'm also hunting for that list of all the

tests that I need to have done. It's on my other computer that's sick.

Cheers guys

[Guest guest]

I think you will find this a dam good read and tests are in this.

/message/14939

Phil

mikedalerogers@... wrote:

The way I delt with My doctors lack of knowledge of this area was to

go to

the ANDROPAUSE SOCIETY.COM and find and print out the information and take it to

my doc. I also periodically send him anything else I find such as a recent

article that guys with T deficiency also develop fragility and loose their

balance more!!

I'm making another appointment today to ask for a stronger mix (10%) in that

I find the 7.5% doesn't do the job. I'm also hunting for that list of all the

tests that I need to have done. It's on my other computer that's sick.

Cheers guys

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 09:51:18 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>

>I think you will find this a dam good read and tests are in this.

> /message/14939

> Phil

>

>mikedalerogers@... wrote:

> The way I delt with My doctors lack of knowledge of this area was to

go to

>the ANDROPAUSE SOCIETY.COM and find and print out the information and take it

to

>my doc. I also periodically send him anything else I find such as a recent

>article that guys with T deficiency also develop fragility and loose their

>balance more!!

http://www.andropause.org.uk

-----

" Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the

power to make you commit atrocities. " - Voltaire

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/1/07 9:55:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,

pmgamer18@... writes:

<< /message/14939 >>