Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 A popular fertility drug, clomifene citrate, sold under the more commonly used name Clomid, helps promote ovulation in women who do not ovulate on their own. It is often used as a first line treatment when women are found to have ovulation problems. I'm confused... How is Clomid suppose to help males with hypogonadism? __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Read this link anyone with low T should read this anyway everything about low T and HCG, Clomid and such are in this. http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf Phil ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote: A popular fertility drug, clomifene citrate, sold under the more commonly used name Clomid, helps promote ovulation in women who do not ovulate on their own. It is often used as a first line treatment when women are found to have ovulation problems. I'm confused... How is Clomid suppose to help males with hypogonadism? __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 I tried the likn for 4 times and I can not get it to appear philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: Read this link anyone with low T should read this anyway everything about low T and HCG, Clomid and such are in this. http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf Phil ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote: A popular fertility drug, clomifene citrate, sold under the more commonly used name Clomid, helps promote ovulation in women who do not ovulate on their own. It is often used as a first line treatment when women are found to have ovulation problems. I'm confused... How is Clomid suppose to help males with hypogonadism? __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Clomid which as I recall has the generic name clomiphene it is an impure mixture of stereoisomers with opposing drug actions. There is an improved version in the works called Androxal which contain only needed molecule/isomer though I don't know how far in the future before it reaches the drug store. > going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and > FSH 7. E2 was 10. > > anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. > > any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? > > Thanks > Jack > > > > --------------------------------- > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Jack, Our fertility doc had me on Clomid but I did not like the side effects. Headaches, light headed, etc. felt like i was going to pass out. put me on HCG and WOW what a difference! HCG was a miracle for us. I went from 10-20 million sperm count to 99million!! Got my wife pregnant in a couple of months! Now I am trying to figure out how to continue to keep my T levels up. Hope this helps! Hank > > going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and > FSH 7. E2 was 10. > > anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. > > any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? > > Thanks > Jack > > > > --------------------------------- > Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I tried today and it is woking. Phil sam grogan <swg1802@...> wrote: I tried the likn for 4 times and I can not get it to appear philip georgian wrote: Read this link anyone with low T should read this anyway everything about low T and HCG, Clomid and such are in this. http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf Phil ELLIOT BAKER wrote: A popular fertility drug, clomifene citrate, sold under the more commonly used name Clomid, helps promote ovulation in women who do not ovulate on their own. It is often used as a first line treatment when women are found to have ovulation problems. I'm confused... How is Clomid suppose to help males with hypogonadism? __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 I hope so did you post this at MESO site. There is a Dr. Mike that is jump starting men that are shut down from AAS. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 yes phil i posted at the Meso site. i was asking more about HCG though. i did post regarding Clomid and u agreed. im rockin813 (my email handle name). what is AAS? philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: I hope so did you post this at MESO site. There is a Dr. Mike that is jump starting men that are shut down from AAS. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Steroids for body building the stuff that is in the News and against the law. They take it to get bigger and end up with there HPTA shut down and for the rest of there lives need to be on TRT. A new Dr. Mike is posting there on how to get there HPTA jump started again. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: yes phil i posted at the Meso site. i was asking more about HCG though. i did post regarding Clomid and u agreed. im rockin813 (my email handle name). what is AAS? philip georgian wrote: I hope so did you post this at MESO site. There is a Dr. Mike that is jump starting men that are shut down from AAS. Phil Jack wrote: that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 what are the signs that ur HPTA is shut down? if ur LH and FSH are both below the range? if one's LH is 5 and FSH is 7 with T levels in the 450 range would that indicate the HPTA isn't shut down? these numbers are w/out treatment? im assuming HPTA shut down means ur T levels are shot to hell and LH levels aren't increasing to make up for it. philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: Steroids for body building the stuff that is in the News and against the law. They take it to get bigger and end up with there HPTA shut down and for the rest of there lives need to be on TRT. A new Dr. Mike is posting there on how to get there HPTA jump started again. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: yes phil i posted at the Meso site. i was asking more about HCG though. i did post regarding Clomid and u agreed. im rockin813 (my email handle name). what is AAS? philip georgian wrote: I hope so did you post this at MESO site. There is a Dr. Mike that is jump starting men that are shut down from AAS. Phil Jack wrote: that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Here is a copy on the 3 kinds of low T. 3. Are there " varieties " of Hypogonadism. A. Yes, there are three definitions used by doctors. They are " Primary " , " Secondary " and " Central " . Primary Hypogonadism refers to Testicular/Ovarian failure. Secondary Hypogonadism refers to a problem in the Pituitary gland or HTPA (The Hypothalmic-Pituitary Axis). Central Hypogonadism refers to problems in both Testicles and Pituitary. It is important to distinguish which one applies when considering treatments. You could be Central. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: what are the signs that ur HPTA is shut down? if ur LH and FSH are both below the range? if one's LH is 5 and FSH is 7 with T levels in the 450 range would that indicate the HPTA isn't shut down? these numbers are w/out treatment? im assuming HPTA shut down means ur T levels are shot to hell and LH levels aren't increasing to make up for it. philip georgian wrote: Steroids for body building the stuff that is in the News and against the law. They take it to get bigger and end up with there HPTA shut down and for the rest of there lives need to be on TRT. A new Dr. Mike is posting there on how to get there HPTA jump started again. Phil Jack wrote: yes phil i posted at the Meso site. i was asking more about HCG though. i did post regarding Clomid and u agreed. im rockin813 (my email handle name). what is AAS? philip georgian wrote: I hope so did you post this at MESO site. There is a Dr. Mike that is jump starting men that are shut down from AAS. Phil Jack wrote: that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 What is the treatment for Central Hypogonadism? I'd put myself in secondary cuz it says secondary patients have normal to low LH values with subnormal T levels. 450 is hard to say subnormal but group that with all my symptoms its easy to justify. philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: Here is a copy on the 3 kinds of low T. 3. Are there " varieties " of Hypogonadism. A. Yes, there are three definitions used by doctors. They are " Primary " , " Secondary " and " Central " . Primary Hypogonadism refers to Testicular/Ovarian failure. Secondary Hypogonadism refers to a problem in the Pituitary gland or HTPA (The Hypothalmic-Pituitary Axis). Central Hypogonadism refers to problems in both Testicles and Pituitary. It is important to distinguish which one applies when considering treatments. You could be Central. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: what are the signs that ur HPTA is shut down? if ur LH and FSH are both below the range? if one's LH is 5 and FSH is 7 with T levels in the 450 range would that indicate the HPTA isn't shut down? these numbers are w/out treatment? im assuming HPTA shut down means ur T levels are shot to hell and LH levels aren't increasing to make up for it. philip georgian wrote: Steroids for body building the stuff that is in the News and against the law. They take it to get bigger and end up with there HPTA shut down and for the rest of there lives need to be on TRT. A new Dr. Mike is posting there on how to get there HPTA jump started again. Phil Jack wrote: yes phil i posted at the Meso site. i was asking more about HCG though. i did post regarding Clomid and u agreed. im rockin813 (my email handle name). what is AAS? philip georgian wrote: I hope so did you post this at MESO site. There is a Dr. Mike that is jump starting men that are shut down from AAS. Phil Jack wrote: that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 The best treatment would be T with HCG. Like Dr. does. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: What is the treatment for Central Hypogonadism? I'd put myself in secondary cuz it says secondary patients have normal to low LH values with subnormal T levels. 450 is hard to say subnormal but group that with all my symptoms its easy to justify. philip georgian wrote: Here is a copy on the 3 kinds of low T. 3. Are there " varieties " of Hypogonadism. A. Yes, there are three definitions used by doctors. They are " Primary " , " Secondary " and " Central " . Primary Hypogonadism refers to Testicular/Ovarian failure. Secondary Hypogonadism refers to a problem in the Pituitary gland or HTPA (The Hypothalmic-Pituitary Axis). Central Hypogonadism refers to problems in both Testicles and Pituitary. It is important to distinguish which one applies when considering treatments. You could be Central. Phil Jack wrote: what are the signs that ur HPTA is shut down? if ur LH and FSH are both below the range? if one's LH is 5 and FSH is 7 with T levels in the 450 range would that indicate the HPTA isn't shut down? these numbers are w/out treatment? im assuming HPTA shut down means ur T levels are shot to hell and LH levels aren't increasing to make up for it. philip georgian wrote: Steroids for body building the stuff that is in the News and against the law. They take it to get bigger and end up with there HPTA shut down and for the rest of there lives need to be on TRT. A new Dr. Mike is posting there on how to get there HPTA jump started again. Phil Jack wrote: yes phil i posted at the Meso site. i was asking more about HCG though. i did post regarding Clomid and u agreed. im rockin813 (my email handle name). what is AAS? philip georgian wrote: I hope so did you post this at MESO site. There is a Dr. Mike that is jump starting men that are shut down from AAS. Phil Jack wrote: that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 prior to starting TRT i want to do just HCG. what's the recommended dosage to increase T levels by 100-200 pts? i was thinking 500ius every 3 days. im sure my endo will have a suggestion...but im just trying to prepare myself. ur thoughts? i know it'll take time to get the right dose and what not...but just want at least a good start. i'll get the blood tested a month after starting and go from there. philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: The best treatment would be T with HCG. Like Dr. does. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: What is the treatment for Central Hypogonadism? I'd put myself in secondary cuz it says secondary patients have normal to low LH values with subnormal T levels. 450 is hard to say subnormal but group that with all my symptoms its easy to justify. philip georgian wrote: Here is a copy on the 3 kinds of low T. 3. Are there " varieties " of Hypogonadism. A. Yes, there are three definitions used by doctors. They are " Primary " , " Secondary " and " Central " . Primary Hypogonadism refers to Testicular/Ovarian failure. Secondary Hypogonadism refers to a problem in the Pituitary gland or HTPA (The Hypothalmic-Pituitary Axis). Central Hypogonadism refers to problems in both Testicles and Pituitary. It is important to distinguish which one applies when considering treatments. You could be Central. Phil Jack wrote: what are the signs that ur HPTA is shut down? if ur LH and FSH are both below the range? if one's LH is 5 and FSH is 7 with T levels in the 450 range would that indicate the HPTA isn't shut down? these numbers are w/out treatment? im assuming HPTA shut down means ur T levels are shot to hell and LH levels aren't increasing to make up for it. philip georgian wrote: Steroids for body building the stuff that is in the News and against the law. They take it to get bigger and end up with there HPTA shut down and for the rest of there lives need to be on TRT. A new Dr. Mike is posting there on how to get there HPTA jump started again. Phil Jack wrote: yes phil i posted at the Meso site. i was asking more about HCG though. i did post regarding Clomid and u agreed. im rockin813 (my email handle name). what is AAS? philip georgian wrote: I hope so did you post this at MESO site. There is a Dr. Mike that is jump starting men that are shut down from AAS. Phil Jack wrote: that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I would start at 150 to 200 IU's everyday and get tested in 4 weeks testing TT, FT, E2 and Progesterone and if this comes up to high start cutting the dose by 25 IU's. Z does just HCG and in time was able to get by on 60 IU's a day. Dr. told to try HCG everyday and he liked the way it makes him feel. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: prior to starting TRT i want to do just HCG. what's the recommended dosage to increase T levels by 100-200 pts? i was thinking 500ius every 3 days. im sure my endo will have a suggestion...but im just trying to prepare myself. ur thoughts? i know it'll take time to get the right dose and what not...but just want at least a good start. i'll get the blood tested a month after starting and go from there. philip georgian wrote: The best treatment would be T with HCG. Like Dr. does. Phil Jack wrote: What is the treatment for Central Hypogonadism? I'd put myself in secondary cuz it says secondary patients have normal to low LH values with subnormal T levels. 450 is hard to say subnormal but group that with all my symptoms its easy to justify. philip georgian wrote: Here is a copy on the 3 kinds of low T. 3. Are there " varieties " of Hypogonadism. A. Yes, there are three definitions used by doctors. They are " Primary " , " Secondary " and " Central " . Primary Hypogonadism refers to Testicular/Ovarian failure. Secondary Hypogonadism refers to a problem in the Pituitary gland or HTPA (The Hypothalmic-Pituitary Axis). Central Hypogonadism refers to problems in both Testicles and Pituitary. It is important to distinguish which one applies when considering treatments. You could be Central. Phil Jack wrote: what are the signs that ur HPTA is shut down? if ur LH and FSH are both below the range? if one's LH is 5 and FSH is 7 with T levels in the 450 range would that indicate the HPTA isn't shut down? these numbers are w/out treatment? im assuming HPTA shut down means ur T levels are shot to hell and LH levels aren't increasing to make up for it. philip georgian wrote: Steroids for body building the stuff that is in the News and against the law. They take it to get bigger and end up with there HPTA shut down and for the rest of there lives need to be on TRT. A new Dr. Mike is posting there on how to get there HPTA jump started again. Phil Jack wrote: yes phil i posted at the Meso site. i was asking more about HCG though. i did post regarding Clomid and u agreed. im rockin813 (my email handle name). what is AAS? philip georgian wrote: I hope so did you post this at MESO site. There is a Dr. Mike that is jump starting men that are shut down from AAS. Phil Jack wrote: that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 thanks for the info. one other question...does mixing up 200ius a day and a shot time consuming? just curious? i know in life taking a shot daily isn't going to be easy...but such is life. thanks philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: I would start at 150 to 200 IU's everyday and get tested in 4 weeks testing TT, FT, E2 and Progesterone and if this comes up to high start cutting the dose by 25 IU's. Z does just HCG and in time was able to get by on 60 IU's a day. Dr. told to try HCG everyday and he liked the way it makes him feel. Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: prior to starting TRT i want to do just HCG. what's the recommended dosage to increase T levels by 100-200 pts? i was thinking 500ius every 3 days. im sure my endo will have a suggestion...but im just trying to prepare myself. ur thoughts? i know it'll take time to get the right dose and what not...but just want at least a good start. i'll get the blood tested a month after starting and go from there. philip georgian wrote: The best treatment would be T with HCG. Like Dr. does. Phil Jack wrote: What is the treatment for Central Hypogonadism? I'd put myself in secondary cuz it says secondary patients have normal to low LH values with subnormal T levels. 450 is hard to say subnormal but group that with all my symptoms its easy to justify. philip georgian wrote: Here is a copy on the 3 kinds of low T. 3. Are there " varieties " of Hypogonadism. A. Yes, there are three definitions used by doctors. They are " Primary " , " Secondary " and " Central " . Primary Hypogonadism refers to Testicular/Ovarian failure. Secondary Hypogonadism refers to a problem in the Pituitary gland or HTPA (The Hypothalmic-Pituitary Axis). Central Hypogonadism refers to problems in both Testicles and Pituitary. It is important to distinguish which one applies when considering treatments. You could be Central. Phil Jack wrote: what are the signs that ur HPTA is shut down? if ur LH and FSH are both below the range? if one's LH is 5 and FSH is 7 with T levels in the 450 range would that indicate the HPTA isn't shut down? these numbers are w/out treatment? im assuming HPTA shut down means ur T levels are shot to hell and LH levels aren't increasing to make up for it. philip georgian wrote: Steroids for body building the stuff that is in the News and against the law. They take it to get bigger and end up with there HPTA shut down and for the rest of there lives need to be on TRT. A new Dr. Mike is posting there on how to get there HPTA jump started again. Phil Jack wrote: yes phil i posted at the Meso site. i was asking more about HCG though. i did post regarding Clomid and u agreed. im rockin813 (my email handle name). what is AAS? philip georgian wrote: I hope so did you post this at MESO site. There is a Dr. Mike that is jump starting men that are shut down from AAS. Phil Jack wrote: that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 No it is no big deal just get some Novarel when mixed it is 10mls of HCG or 10,000 mgs. You need to keep it cold when mixed and it is only good for 30 days then you though it out. Get some 27g 1ml x 1/2 " lg. needles to shoot the HCG with. and see if you can about 10 23g 5ml x 1 " lg. needles to mix the HCG. you need to pull 10 mls of the water out of a vile and inject it into the HCG vile of powder. You do this 2 x's and never shake the HCG when the water in in it. Just swirl it. And get some Alchol pads to do the the shots with. Using the 27g needle pull .2mls of air into the needle then stick this into the vile of HCG push out the air and pull about .3 mls of HCG into the needle and then put it back until the air is out and you have .2mls of HCG. Now follow this link on doing the shot. http://spotinjections.com/index3.htm Phil Jack <rockin813@...> wrote: thanks for the info. one other question...does mixing up 200ius a day and a shot time consuming? just curious? i know in life taking a shot daily isn't going to be easy...but such is life. thanks philip georgian wrote: I would start at 150 to 200 IU's everyday and get tested in 4 weeks testing TT, FT, E2 and Progesterone and if this comes up to high start cutting the dose by 25 IU's. Z does just HCG and in time was able to get by on 60 IU's a day. Dr. told to try HCG everyday and he liked the way it makes him feel. Phil Jack wrote: prior to starting TRT i want to do just HCG. what's the recommended dosage to increase T levels by 100-200 pts? i was thinking 500ius every 3 days. im sure my endo will have a suggestion...but im just trying to prepare myself. ur thoughts? i know it'll take time to get the right dose and what not...but just want at least a good start. i'll get the blood tested a month after starting and go from there. philip georgian wrote: The best treatment would be T with HCG. Like Dr. does. Phil Jack wrote: What is the treatment for Central Hypogonadism? I'd put myself in secondary cuz it says secondary patients have normal to low LH values with subnormal T levels. 450 is hard to say subnormal but group that with all my symptoms its easy to justify. philip georgian wrote: Here is a copy on the 3 kinds of low T. 3. Are there " varieties " of Hypogonadism. A. Yes, there are three definitions used by doctors. They are " Primary " , " Secondary " and " Central " . Primary Hypogonadism refers to Testicular/Ovarian failure. Secondary Hypogonadism refers to a problem in the Pituitary gland or HTPA (The Hypothalmic-Pituitary Axis). Central Hypogonadism refers to problems in both Testicles and Pituitary. It is important to distinguish which one applies when considering treatments. You could be Central. Phil Jack wrote: what are the signs that ur HPTA is shut down? if ur LH and FSH are both below the range? if one's LH is 5 and FSH is 7 with T levels in the 450 range would that indicate the HPTA isn't shut down? these numbers are w/out treatment? im assuming HPTA shut down means ur T levels are shot to hell and LH levels aren't increasing to make up for it. philip georgian wrote: Steroids for body building the stuff that is in the News and against the law. They take it to get bigger and end up with there HPTA shut down and for the rest of there lives need to be on TRT. A new Dr. Mike is posting there on how to get there HPTA jump started again. Phil Jack wrote: yes phil i posted at the Meso site. i was asking more about HCG though. i did post regarding Clomid and u agreed. im rockin813 (my email handle name). what is AAS? philip georgian wrote: I hope so did you post this at MESO site. There is a Dr. Mike that is jump starting men that are shut down from AAS. Phil Jack wrote: that's what i was thinking phil...try clomid first. its also much easier than HCG. thing is clomid isn't meant for long term usage. what im hoping is the propecia caused the disruption in my HPTA over 6yrs of use...and clomid will restart it. time will tell. thanks philip georgian wrote: I say give clomid a try do 50mgs 2x's a day for 4 weeks then cut back to just 50 mgs. Phil Jack wrote: going to Endo on Thursday. recent tests came back with T being 470 (9am), LH 5 and FSH 7. E2 was 10. anyway, MRI was negative. sperm count is 80 mill. does this mean my Testicles aren't failing..at least it says they work. with T being so low and sperm count normal im putting myself in secondary hypoG. so im thinking HCG or clomiphene citrate? read that HCG can cause gynecomastia. also clomiphene doesn't have as many side effects...i do know there are some though. also...it's an antiestrogen so i wouldn't have to worry about my E2. with my T being 470 i only need it to increase 150 or so to feel good as i do get erections only weak and not spontatneous. so with clomid increasing endogenous T by 200 i should be ok. any thoughts? at least I can try it right??? Thanks Jack --------------------------------- Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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