Guest guest Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 I would have to go along with Phil on this one, simply due to too much conflicting " evidence " out there. Until it is proven beyond doubt, I stay away from Soy like the plague. Remember, soy is a plentiful resource, and cheap. Big money is being made from touting it, and surely big business is funding much of the positive studies. Follow the money on this one. Ron > > >Not the case for me when I got my E2 down my Total and Free T levels went up very high on my blood test. Here read this. > >http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm > >I showed this to my DR. and he started testing new men for low t and high e2 and if there e2 was high he treated it first and there T levels did go up 200 to 300 points. > >Phil > > > Except we were talking Soy, not Arimidex. And Soy own't effect your T > levels but may out compete for receptor sites. > > - - - - > Just another albino black sheep > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:15:14 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >All I am saying is that if one does soy the receptor sites are full of a marker of E from the soy. It is not any different then the receptor sites being full of E2 or any E's. Being full leaves little room for T. The Arimidex boosts Testosterone is just an example to show if the receptor sites and not full of E's be it for soy or other wise the T levels will go up. The old thinking was that if one eats soy or takes Soy supplements it will keep E2 down and it does but it also keeps T down too. Soy works for women but not for men. I see it some what differently. If the receptor sites are full of Soy phyoetrgogens that keeps T from binding and " dropping out of the system. I don't see that lowering T levels. It robs the effect but doesn't do anything do metabolize T. E2 conversion is different, because E2 comes from T, so when you stop T from becoming E2 you are going to get a drop in E2 and an increase in T (hence the Arimidex 200 to 300 point bounce). But if you are supplementing in the Soy or if you were for some odd reason to suppliant E2 you wouldn't be impacting T levels except to the extent its part of a feed back loop. Might work some for people not on TRT that they would produce less because of feedback signals from the receptor sites. But with TRT the feed back loop is inapplicable. T should stay up. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:25:07 -0000, you wrote: > >I would have to go along with Phil on this one, simply due to too >much conflicting " evidence " out there. Until it is proven beyond >doubt, I stay away from Soy like the plague. I also am saying to stay away from it. But we disagree on the effects it has on T levels. If you're on TRT I don't think it will impact your T levels. But it will fill T receptor sites meaning you don't get the benefit of T. In folks not on TRT filling receptor sites with phytoestrogens likely gives feedback to the hypothalamus and pituitary that the body has enough T and results in lower amounts of bio made T. But if you're getting your T at a steady rate from TRT the feedback loop has no part in it. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:25:07 -0000, you wrote: > >Remember, soy is a plentiful resource, and cheap. Big money is being >made from touting it, and surely big business is funding much of the >positive studies. Follow the money on this one. at the same time the Japanese who eat lots of it, have unhealthier life styles in many ways than we do - more smoking, more stress, longer work hours, yet live longer than we do. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Thanks Ron I got my info on Soy at Dr. 's old site maybe he will post something on this. Phil Ron <bb1fit@...> wrote: I would have to go along with Phil on this one, simply due to too much conflicting " evidence " out there. Until it is proven beyond doubt, I stay away from Soy like the plague. Remember, soy is a plentiful resource, and cheap. Big money is being made from touting it, and surely big business is funding much of the positive studies. Follow the money on this one. Ron > > >Not the case for me when I got my E2 down my Total and Free T levels went up very high on my blood test. Here read this. > >http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm > >I showed this to my DR. and he started testing new men for low t and high e2 and if there e2 was high he treated it first and there T levels did go up 200 to 300 points. > >Phil > > > Except we were talking Soy, not Arimidex. And Soy own't effect your T > levels but may out compete for receptor sites. > > - - - - > Just another albino black sheep > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 Well, according to Dr Barefoot, the Japanese live longer than we do because they eat all that coral calcium he sells. ***my tongue is planted firmly in cheek with the above remark. > Re: Re: To Soy or not to Soy > > >On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:25:07 -0000, you wrote: > >> >>Remember, soy is a plentiful resource, and cheap. Big money is being >>made from touting it, and surely big business is funding much of the >>positive studies. Follow the money on this one. > > >at the same time the Japanese who eat lots of it, have unhealthier >life styles in many ways than we do - more smoking, more stress, >longer work hours, yet live longer than we do. > >- - - - >Just another albino black sheep > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 A lot of them are also frail, underweight and impotent. When Viagra first came out, there were hordes of men coming here to Hawaii and going back home with a filled prescription. For me, I will take a high T level, no phytoestrogens and a slightly shorter life. > > > >> > >>Remember, soy is a plentiful resource, and cheap. Big money is being > >>made from touting it, and surely big business is funding much of the > >>positive studies. Follow the money on this one. > > > > > >at the same time the Japanese who eat lots of it, have unhealthier > >life styles in many ways than we do - more smoking, more stress, > >longer work hours, yet live longer than we do. > > > >- - - - > >Just another albino black sheep > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 I believe males who avoid soy will actually live longer. Regards, Dr. Crisler, DO The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message. We would certainly do the same for you. Re: To Soy or not to Soy A lot of them are also frail, underweight and impotent. When Viagra first came out, there were hordes of men coming here to Hawaii and going back home with a filled prescription. For me, I will take a high T level, no phytoestrogens and a slightly shorter life. > > > >> > >>Remember, soy is a plentiful resource, and cheap. Big money is being > >>made from touting it, and surely big business is funding much of the > >>positive studies. Follow the money on this one. > > > > > >at the same time the Japanese who eat lots of it, have unhealthier > >life styles in many ways than we do - more smoking, more stress, > >longer work hours, yet live longer than we do. > > > >- - - - > >Just another albino black sheep > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Like I said, my tongue was in cheek when I posted that. I think it's hilarious to watch some of those infomercials for the latest miracle supplement. Obviously some supplements work, and have a valid place in our health regimens, but it's amazing to watch one company come out with something (eg., coral calcium), and then a slew of others copy cat. Same thing in the body building rags...one company comes out with an NO2 releaser, and suddenly everyone's got a copy cat. Muscle Milk protein's another example...high protein, very high fat powder...no one would ever consider using this stuff a couple of years ago, now every company's making it. > Re: To Soy or not to Soy > > >A lot of them are also frail, underweight and impotent. When Viagra >first came out, there were hordes of men coming here to Hawaii and >going back home with a filled prescription. For me, I will take a >high T level, no phytoestrogens and a slightly shorter life. > >> > >> >> >> >>Remember, soy is a plentiful resource, and cheap. Big money is >being >> >>made from touting it, and surely big business is funding much of >the >> >>positive studies. Follow the money on this one. >> > >> > >> >at the same time the Japanese who eat lots of it, have unhealthier >> >life styles in many ways than we do - more smoking, more stress, >> >longer work hours, yet live longer than we do. >> > >> >- - - - >> >Just another albino black sheep >> > >> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Me too! Glad to hear someone in " authority " backing me up! I have long considered soy not a health food! " Dr. Crisler " <doctorjohn@...> wrote:I believe males who avoid soy will actually live longer. Regards, Dr. Crisler, DO The information contained in this message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above, and is protected by state and federal law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately, and delete the original message. We would certainly do the same for you. Re: To Soy or not to Soy A lot of them are also frail, underweight and impotent. When Viagra first came out, there were hordes of men coming here to Hawaii and going back home with a filled prescription. For me, I will take a high T level, no phytoestrogens and a slightly shorter life. > > > >> > >>Remember, soy is a plentiful resource, and cheap. Big money is being > >>made from touting it, and surely big business is funding much of the > >>positive studies. Follow the money on this one. > > > > > >at the same time the Japanese who eat lots of it, have unhealthier > >life styles in many ways than we do - more smoking, more stress, > >longer work hours, yet live longer than we do. > > > >- - - - > >Just another albino black sheep > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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