Guest guest Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:27:17 -0700, you wrote: > >What's the feeling of the group on Soy products and their effects on we >testosterone challenged men? > >I read one article that says use it, another that says don't. > >Something I just read made me run out and buy a pound of Soy Lecithin >granules, and then before I took any I read another article/post that >said Soy bonds with testosterone receptors and blocks test from being >useful. > >Any pointers appreciated. A Recent study looked over all the research and said it had no real beneficial effect for women in menopause for their symptoms. It seems to do nothing really. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed in the refining process. What you want to be careful of are the nonfermented soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian meat substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know what wives fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > What's the feeling of the group on Soy products and their effects on we > testosterone challenged men? > > I read one article that says use it, another that says don't. > > Something I just read made me run out and buy a pound of Soy Lecithin > granules, and then before I took any I read another article/post that > said Soy bonds with testosterone receptors and blocks test from being > useful. > > Any pointers appreciated. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Now if I could just remember the point of taking Soy Lecithin that made me go out and buy it. Re: To Soy or not to Soy Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed in the refining process. What you want to be careful of are the nonfermented soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian meat substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know what wives fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > What's the feeling of the group on Soy products and their effects on we > testosterone challenged men? > > I read one article that says use it, another that says don't. > > Something I just read made me run out and buy a pound of Soy Lecithin > granules, and then before I took any I read another article/post that > said Soy bonds with testosterone receptors and blocks test from being > useful. > > Any pointers appreciated. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 i did some reading about diet...and have decided to go Vegetarian. i grew up vegetarian but began eating meat when i got into college. in high school i was 5'8ish and weighed 110 (yes skinny)..after freshman year in college i was 5'10 and weighed 160. figured it was from eating meat and drinking beer. from there went to 195 and now at 180ish. looking back it was probably the meat that gained all that weight. all that horomone injected meat probably. fuck that...always thought about quitting but never did...but now that sexual function may be impacted i'm not even gonna look back. i love mexican/thai/italian food...all can be eaten veg. > > > > > > > > What's the feeling of the group on Soy products and their effects on > we > > testosterone challenged men? > > > > I read one article that says use it, another that says don't. > > > > Something I just read made me run out and buy a pound of Soy Lecithin > > granules, and then before I took any I read another article/post that > > said Soy bonds with testosterone receptors and blocks test from being > > useful. > > > > Any pointers appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed in the > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the nonfermented > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian meat > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know what wives > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? Boz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Holy estrogen, cooked soybeans are the worst. Not only are they full of phytoestrogens, they also contain vitamin antagonists. I cannot remember which ones, but eating unprocessed soybeans is the worst. > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed in the > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the > nonfermented > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian meat > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know what > wives > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > Boz > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Dr. says no man should do soy. Phil wetrey72 <wetrey72@...> wrote: Holy estrogen, cooked soybeans are the worst. Not only are they full of phytoestrogens, they also contain vitamin antagonists. I cannot remember which ones, but eating unprocessed soybeans is the worst. > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed in the > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the > nonfermented > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian meat > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know what > wives > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > Boz > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 If soy is such an endocrine disruptor, what is the effect of a pregnant mother eating lots of soy products? I ask, because lots of mothers to be do this in Hawaii. There are lots of boys and men here with borderline secondary hypogonadism as well. Myself included. > > > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed in the > > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the > > nonfermented > > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian meat > > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know what > > wives > > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > > > Boz > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 If soy is such an endocrine disruptor, what is the effect of a pregnant mother eating lots of soy products? I ask, because lots of mothers to be do this in Hawaii. There are lots of boys and men here with borderline secondary hypogonadism as well. ---- I can't believe this could have an effect. Estrogen is synthesized from soy, but there is not enough estrogen in soy products to make a blip on the map. Pregnant women have enormous levels of estrogen (and progesterone) and adding a minute amount of estrogen from soybean products in the diet is a drop in the bucket. Since a very small amount of E can unbalance a man's hormone levels, eating an excessive amount of soy products MIGHT add to high E in men, but even this is a stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 The best way I can explain this is Soy has a marker like Estrogen. It is good for women but bad for men. In men the brain can't tell the difference between Estrogen and Testosterone. So when a man takes Soy it fills the cells with an not working Estrogen marker. The brain thinks it is T and does not send the LH and FSH to the testis to make more T so the man ends up with low T. Dr.'s today that are good on TRT test men over 40 for both T and E2 and if there E2 is high and there T is low they treat the high E2 and get it down doing this brings up the T levels some 200 to 300 points on a blood test and they don't need to go on TRT. Here is on study I have of many. http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm Phil wetrey72 <wetrey72@...> wrote: If soy is such an endocrine disruptor, what is the effect of a pregnant mother eating lots of soy products? I ask, because lots of mothers to be do this in Hawaii. There are lots of boys and men here with borderline secondary hypogonadism as well. Myself included. > > > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed in the > > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the > > nonfermented > > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian meat > > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know what > > wives > > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > > > Boz > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Any thoughts or theories on how soy would affect those of us who get most if not all our T from TRT (ie no Testicles)? I have seen at least one article that says soy would not affect T levels. Drake > > > > > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed in > the > > > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the > > > nonfermented > > > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian meat > > > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know > what > > > wives > > > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > > > > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > > > > > Boz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 04:57:56 -0000, you wrote: > >Any thoughts or theories on how soy would affect those of us who get >most if not all our T from TRT (ie no Testicles)? > >I have seen at least one article that says soy would not affect T >levels. While it may not affect levels I would suspect it of binding up T receptor sites like E2 and other estrogens can do. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 > > > > > > > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed > in > > the > > > > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the > > > > nonfermented > > > > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian > meat > > > > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know > > what > > > > wives > > > > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > > > > > > > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > > > > > > > Boz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 It works the same way if you have Testicloes or not. The E marker takes up the space in the cells that the T meds go to and you end up converting into E2 and the rest goes down the drain. Here are some links on Soy I have. http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/isoflavones.html http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html I don't remember if they talk about what I said above but Soy is not good for men. Phil veganman23 <veganman23@...> wrote: Any thoughts or theories on how soy would affect those of us who get most if not all our T from TRT (ie no Testicles)? I have seen at least one article that says soy would not affect T levels. Drake > > > > > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed in > the > > > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the > > > nonfermented > > > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian meat > > > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know > what > > > wives > > > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > > > > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > > > > > Boz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 Mike stop drinking Soy Testis or not if your on TRT it put a E marker in the cells that the T goes to and it makes it hard to keep you T levels up. Phil maiku000215 <mikedamours215@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed > in > > the > > > > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the > > > > nonfermented > > > > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian > meat > > > > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know > > what > > > > wives > > > > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > > > > > > > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > > > > > > > Boz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Hi Phil - the point I was making about the testicles is due to someone saying that Soy could shut down your own production of T. Since I get 99% of my T from the gel, I wanted to see if anyone had thoughts about soy affecting T levels if all T is TRT. I will check out the links. Drake > > > > > > > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed > in > > the > > > > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the > > > > nonfermented > > > > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian > meat > > > > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you know > > what > > > > wives > > > > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > > > > > > > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > > > > > > > Boz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 Phil, why is it hard to keep the T levels up if all the T is from TRT? Drake > > > > > > > > > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed > > in > > > the > > > > > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the > > > > > nonfermented > > > > > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian > > meat > > > > > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you > know > > > what > > > > > wives > > > > > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > > > > > > > > > Boz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:53:02 -0000, you wrote: >Hi Phil - > >the point I was making about the testicles is due to someone saying >that Soy could shut down your own production of T. Since I get 99% >of my T from the gel, I wanted to see if anyone had thoughts about >soy affecting T levels if all T is TRT. > >I will check out the links. It won't lower your T. iT MAY OUT COMPETE YOUR t FOR RECEPTOR SITES AND STEAL THE EFFECTS OF t THAT YOU WANT. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 When E's and E2 are high they take up the space in the cells or the body that the T meds go and you have a hard time keeping your levels up. So a test shows you low the Dr. up's the T dose it converts into E2 and the beat gose on. This link has a good amount of info on how this happens. http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-130.html I don't buy there products but the info is good. Phil veganman23 <veganman23@...> wrote: Phil, why is it hard to keep the T levels up if all the T is from TRT? Drake > > > > > > > > > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are removed > > in > > > the > > > > > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are the > > > > > nonfermented > > > > > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and vegetarian > > meat > > > > > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you > know > > > what > > > > > wives > > > > > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > > > > > > > > > Boz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 My blood test went down for Total and Free doing soy to keep my E2 down. Phil retrogrouch@... wrote: On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:53:02 -0000, you wrote: >Hi Phil - > >the point I was making about the testicles is due to someone saying >that Soy could shut down your own production of T. Since I get 99% >of my T from the gel, I wanted to see if anyone had thoughts about >soy affecting T levels if all T is TRT. > >I will check out the links. It won't lower your T. iT MAY OUT COMPETE YOUR t FOR RECEPTOR SITES AND STEAL THE EFFECTS OF t THAT YOU WANT. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:42:36 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >When E's and E2 are high they take up the space in the cells or the body that the T meds go and you have a hard time keeping your levels up. So a test shows you low the Dr. up's the T dose it converts into E2 and the beat gose on. >This link has a good amount of info on how this happens. >http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-130.html >I don't buy there products but the info is good. The tests don't show you low. The T is there. It just doesn't beat out the E2 for the receptor sites. Tests will show good T levels. But you don't feel them. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 Not the case for me when I got my E2 down my Total and Free T levels went up very high on my blood test. Here read this. http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm I showed this to my DR. and he started testing new men for low t and high e2 and if there e2 was high he treated it first and there T levels did go up 200 to 300 points. Phil retrogrouch@... wrote: On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 15:42:36 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >When E's and E2 are high they take up the space in the cells or the body that the T meds go and you have a hard time keeping your levels up. So a test shows you low the Dr. up's the T dose it converts into E2 and the beat gose on. >This link has a good amount of info on how this happens. >http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcls-txt/t-prtcl-130.html >I don't buy there products but the info is good. The tests don't show you low. The T is there. It just doesn't beat out the E2 for the receptor sites. Tests will show good T levels. But you don't feel them. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 That explains why tofu was the medicine for a cheating man. It sounds to me like an androgen antagonist. Like how tamoxifen occupies estrogen receptor sites, but does not act like estrogen. I am still concerned about the prenatal effects. Because of the receptor blocking action and the fact that it is not metabolized to anything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Soy lecithin is ok, because the phytoestrogens are > removed > > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > refining process. What you want to be careful of are > the > > > > > > nonfermented > > > > > > > soy protein products such as tofu, soy milk and > vegetarian > > > meat > > > > > > > substitutes mad from soy. BTW, in feudal Japan, do you > > know > > > > what > > > > > > wives > > > > > > > fed philandering husbands. Lots of tofu. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about the Soy Beans? I love them can I eat them? > > > > > > > > > > > > Boz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2005 Report Share Posted October 30, 2005 On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:25:42 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >Not the case for me when I got my E2 down my Total and Free T levels went up very high on my blood test. Here read this. >http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm >I showed this to my DR. and he started testing new men for low t and high e2 and if there e2 was high he treated it first and there T levels did go up 200 to 300 points. >Phil Except we were talking Soy, not Arimidex. And Soy own't effect your T levels but may out compete for receptor sites. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2005 Report Share Posted October 31, 2005 All I am saying is that if one does soy the receptor sites are full of a marker of E from the soy. It is not any different then the receptor sites being full of E2 or any E's. Being full leaves little room for T. The Arimidex boosts Testosterone is just an example to show if the receptor sites and not full of E's be it for soy or other wise the T levels will go up. The old thinking was that if one eats soy or takes Soy supplements it will keep E2 down and it does but it also keeps T down too. Soy works for women but not for men. Phil retrogrouch@... wrote: On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:25:42 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >Not the case for me when I got my E2 down my Total and Free T levels went up very high on my blood test. Here read this. >http://www.medibolics.com/ArimidexBoostsTestosterone.htm >I showed this to my DR. and he started testing new men for low t and high e2 and if there e2 was high he treated it first and there T levels did go up 200 to 300 points. >Phil Except we were talking Soy, not Arimidex. And Soy own't effect your T levels but may out compete for receptor sites. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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