Re: Animal studies

July 27, 2004

Hi bobluhrs,

who can type ? LoL After all these years of runnnig a computer I still use three

fingers :-)

Take care,

V mailto:vman@...

Tuesday, July 27, 2004, 11:09:11 AM, you wrote:

> I've created a folder where results on animals can be posted. I

> have to catch up with the several messages people have posted here

> realating to their work.

> Don't forget we are not the only ones here. We're just the only ones

> who can type.

> Bob

> The group's main page has a menu to the left, with photos of

> Godzilla devices and other things useful in research. These are

> free to members. Membership is free, but you agree to be on your

> own, not take our freedom of speech as medical advice. We are not

> doctors! Repeat, we are ordinary lay people, not experts, not

> healthy officials, or geniuses of any kind. The information on this

> group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT

> doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical

> advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There

> are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical

> advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to

> the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might

> inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein

> Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot

> say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical

> benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching.

> --bG

>

July 27, 2004

What no voice recognition equipment! LOL Yes I'm still trying to hang on to my sense of humor though right now really don't feel like it. The fatigue seems to be back with a vengeance. Friday night July 23, 2004 was the last time I took any mood/mind/pain meds I just find it difficult to believe these could be the cause of the fatigue starting again; I only bring this up because everytime I've napped today (and it seems as though that's been all day) I have these very vivid dreams and LOTS of them. It's as though I'm being shuffled from one dream to the next without a chance to even notice what the dreams are about. I believe this may be REM rebound a condition that occurs when off most of the drugs I was on. The good/bad news is this also could be causing the fatigue and I'm just freakin' out too quickly. The real objective here is not to shy anyone away from the zapper treatment. I did the zapper on a lark and did not maintain any type of protocol; I was just astounded that it worked at all. I haven't zapped since Thursday 7/22/04. I really believe the zapper produced some very positive results very quickly. Of course this is in no way intended as medical advice nor should anything be said that would cause one to question the medical authority of his/her physician.

Sincerely,

Re: Animal Studies

Hi bobluhrs,who can type ? LoL After all these years of runnnig a computer I still use three fingers :-)Take care,V mailto:vman@...Tuesday, July 27, 2004, 11:09:11 AM, you wrote:> I've created a folder where results on animals can be posted. I > have to catch up with the several messages people have posted here > realating to their work.> Don't forget we are not the only ones here. We're just the only ones> who can type.> Bob> The group's main page has a menu to the left, with photos of> Godzilla devices and other things useful in research. These are> free to members. Membership is free, but you agree to be on your> own, not take our freedom of speech as medical advice. We are not> doctors! Repeat, we are ordinary lay people, not experts, not> healthy officials, or geniuses of any kind. The information on this> group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT> doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical> advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There> are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical> advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to> the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might> inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein> Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot> say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical> benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. > --bG >

July 27, 2004

Most people, even in this group, think of electricity and HIV as a

lark. But most people don't read the Kaali-Lyman study in our

files, right under their noses. They continue to be astounded when

it works, since they have no real information, by choice, since they

can choose to read it or not read it and be " astounded " .

According to the lab study, one would have to be astounded if it did

NOT work. I hope that it does, but can see no reason that it would

not, unless the whole thing was invalid somehow. But both Dr. Beck

in the 90's verified it, and I verified it in 2003.

bG

>I did the zapper on a lark and did not maintain any type of

protocol; I was just astounded that it worked at all. I haven't

zapped since Thursday 7/22/04. I really believe the zapper produced

some very positive results very quickly. Of course this is in no way

intended as medical advice nor should anything be said that would

cause one to question the medical authority of his/her physician.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: V<mailto:vman@e...>

>

July 27, 2004

I've read and re-read the Kaali-Lyman report and always with the eye of a skeptic. Maybe astounded wasn't the right choice of words but you know where I'm coming from. Yes to you this may seem old hat but in reality and especially among friends, family, colleagues, all Alternative Health products and therapies remain in the realm of quackery. Even though a lot of my friends respect me for having at least a modicum of intelligence any reported cure using altern. means is looked on as being in the realm of a 'placebo effect', that this is all in my head, and that as I said in one of my first posts, "Certainly if there were a cure I'd have heard about it. Any cure should at least be common knowledge." You know of the scheme to cover up any inexpensive cure that’s perpetrated through the AMA, The FEDs, and Pharmaceutical industry. You know how difficult it is to sift through all the crap that's supposed to work, wade through the charlatans out for a quick buck, the rumored cures etc. IT IS TOUGH and many times in absolute exhaustion I threw up my hands and said "That's it I can't read through anymore of this crap! What did I think that there actually was a cure out there?! I must be going crazy!"

You have been working with this for far longer than I. Yes I guess I was right after all! I am astounded! Astounded that it seems that there might be something that's going to work; astounded that all of this plugging away may finally be paying off; astounded and angry to the point of tears for the friends that died grueling deaths, and that continue to suffer because that's where the profit is. It's a small and cheap little victory but at least allow me that. Allow me to continue to be astounded so that my reactions are true and that they may convince others that I didn't set out TO prove this only to PROVE whether or not it works.

I hope this doesn't seem like a personal attack because I do respect and admire you for everything you've done to keep this site going. Try to remember when you started out as a skeptic then reached a point in all of this and said "Hey, this does work!"

Sincerely,

This is in no way intended as medical advice nor to be construed as anything that would inhibit one from seeking medical advice or to question the physicians Government Granted Authority. Remember we don't know anything about our bodies and should therefore leave them in the hands of the professionals. (So they can experiment!)

Re: Animal Studies

Most people, even in this group, think of electricity and HIV as a lark. But most people don't read the Kaali-Lyman study in our files, right under their noses. They continue to be astounded when it works, since they have no real information, by choice, since they can choose to read it or not read it and be "astounded".According to the lab study, one would have to be astounded if it did NOT work. I hope that it does, but can see no reason that it would not, unless the whole thing was invalid somehow. But both Dr. Beck in the 90's verified it, and I verified it in 2003.bG>I did the zapper on a lark and did not maintain any type of protocol; I was just astounded that it worked at all. I haven't zapped since Thursday 7/22/04. I really believe the zapper produced some very positive results very quickly. Of course this is in no way intended as medical advice nor should anything be said that would cause one to question the medical authority of his/her physician. > > Sincerely,> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: V<mailto:vman@e...> >The group's main page has a menu to the left, with photos of Godzilla devices and other things useful in research. These are free to members. Membership is free, but you agree to be on your own, not take our freedom of speech as medical advice. We are not doctors! Repeat, we are ordinary lay people, not experts, not healthy officials, or geniuses of any kind. The information on this group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. --bG

July 27, 2004

I understand. You have a perfect right after all that to feel as

you do.

I feel like I'm astounded every time I hear, once again, that it

worked. The pressure from the whole world's opinion still has its

icy grip on my mind as it does on everyone.

I have said that you are in for a pleasant surprise, and I still say

so. There's really no way anyone can simply look at an experiment

writeup and extrapolate it out, though we should, we will probably

never be able to do that. Beck is the first to do that with this

study.

Were 4 doctors all making this up? Were the tests invalid?

To answer that, I sent the info to the head of UW HIV labs, and he

reviewed it. He said, " Yes, it inactivated the virus, but that the

electricity was probably too toxic " He knew little if anything of

the amounts of electricity involved.

The toxicity study was not included, so he of course did not have

that information, and I didn't either at that time. When I found

it, the information confirmed that the currents actually prolonged

the lifespan of healthy CD4 cells!

So, at least we know that these tests were accurate as of current

lab procedures and knowledge.

I didn't leave it go. I found out his lab's procedures at UW for

testing the infectvitiy, and it's still " score syncytia " , same as

one of the tests used by Kaali-Lyman.

The usage of godzilla an hour a day on only one wrist dropped the

viral load 25% in 3 weeks without drugs in one case, resulting in an

extended drug holiday of 3 months. It stayed low, and the doctor

wanted to re-apply the drugs to zero it out. We have little other

documentation to offer, unfortunately, but hopefully that will soon

change, and this will become the " in " thing for HIV/AIDS, assuming

our study and concept is workable.

I did some calculations and feel that based on the electronics and

times involved, it should be possible to provide some sort of hope

of a drug-free lease on life using this, and once the count is

really lowered, it may be a light touch-up once in awhile.

Bob

> I've read and re-read the Kaali-Lyman report and always with the

eye of a skeptic. Maybe astounded wasn't the right choice of words

but you know where I'm coming from.

July 27, 2004

,

My daughter crashes after eating white flour. Must be allergic or sensitive to gluten. Have you ever tried eliminating grains from your diet? Just a thought. Wouldn't take long to find out.

Dick

Re: Animal Studies

Hi bobluhrs,who can type ? LoL After all these years of runnnig a computer I still use three fingers :-)Take care,V mailto:vman@...Tuesday, July 27, 2004, 11:09:11 AM, you wrote:> I've created a folder where results on animals can be posted. I > have to catch up with the several messages people have posted here > realating to their work.> Don't forget we are not the only ones here. We're just the only ones> who can type.> Bob> The group's main page has a menu to the left, with photos of> Godzilla devices and other things useful in research. These are> free to members. Membership is free, but you agree to be on your> own, not take our freedom of speech as medical advice. We are not> doctors! Repeat, we are ordinary lay people, not experts, not> healthy officials, or geniuses of any kind. The information on this> group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT> doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical> advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There> are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical> advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to> the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might> inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein> Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot> say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical> benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. > --bG >

July 28, 2004

That's a pretty scary thought for me! I actually find it therapeutic to make my own bread, ALL KINDS! One of the joys of doing this is "first fruits" I get to cut off an end piece and slather it with butter before anybody else gets to it---of course this is reserved for my father if he's around. I do deal with and eat white flour quite often and it's never been a problem. I'm starting to believe that the fatigue now is the result of going off the meds and my sleep wake cycle may be disrupted for a few days. (Note I'm answering this at 2 am EST after laying in bed and not being able to get back to sleep.) The other problem is that a lot of the things I'm doing are geared toward living a healthy lifestyle and require major changes in my current lifestyle. So I expect I will go through some trauma in reaching this goal and that I won't always know what is causing what but I relay this information so that most people will understand that my symptoms may be due to a treatment I'm doing or may be just the withdrawal of another bad habit. I have this innate sense of where this is all leading me toward and just try to keep my focus on that point where I can say, in the words of Brown, "I feel good!"

Thanks once again for your input and insight, Dick.

Peace,

This is in no way intended as medical advice nor to be construed as anything that would inhibit one from seeking medical advice or to question the physicians Government Granted Authority. Remember we don't know anything about our bodies and should therefore leave them in the hands of the professionals.

Re: Animal Studies

Hi bobluhrs,who can type ? LoL After all these years of runnnig a computer I still use three fingers :-)Take care,V mailto:vman@...Tuesday, July 27, 2004, 11:09:11 AM, you wrote:> I've created a folder where results on animals can be posted. I > have to catch up with the several messages people have posted here > realating to their work.> Don't forget we are not the only ones here. We're just the only ones> who can type.> Bob> The group's main page has a menu to the left, with photos of> Godzilla devices and other things useful in research. These are> free to members. Membership is free, but you agree to be on your> own, not take our freedom of speech as medical advice. We are not> doctors! Repeat, we are ordinary lay people, not experts, not> healthy officials, or geniuses of any kind. The information on this> group is not intended as medical advice. Most group members are NOT> doctors or health authorities. Please do not request medical> advice, lest anyone get into trouble out of human compassion. There> are huge fines and issues currently involved with unlicensed medical> advice. The group is only here to share experiences according to> the theme of the group, namely testing if electrical stimulus might> inactivate microbes, as it seems to have done in the Einstein> Medical College labs. We are interested in your results, but cannot> say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have medical> benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. > --bG >

July 28, 2004

Yeah, V

anyone cna see htat. :-) Ive become quite good at deciphering your

useful information.

Be well,

Tony

On 27 Jul 2004 at 11:13, V wrote:

> Hi bobluhrs,

>

> who can type ? LoL After all these years of runnnig a computer I still

> use three fingers :-)

>

> Take care,

> V mailto:vman@...

September 10, 2007

I see that animal studies are regularly quoted in support of this that or the

other approach to cancer. The problem is that rat studies only predictively

apply to rats. They don't predict anything for mice, rabbits, guinea pigs or

humans. Thalidomide does not cause defects in the foetuses of any of the normal

experimental animals even at large doses. Penicillin has no effect on rabbits,

kills guinea pigs and causes thalidomide-like malformations to rat foetuses.

A rat breast cancer is a very different kind of tumour to a human breast

cancer. This is one of the reasons why so few orthodoxly-researched treatments

have proven to be successfull

September 10, 2007

Hi, .

To be sure, there are very significant differences between humans and

rats, and also, I think that any two or three rats are far more

similar to each other in terms of diet, exercise, emotions, etc, than

any two or three people. There are so many more variables to consider

with human beings, it seems to me

But to the best of my knowledge, no drug goes on the market without

first being tested in human beings. So that's not, to my mind, why

few mainstream treatments prove successful.

I believe that one of the significant reasons mainstream treatments

are unsuccessful is because the people to whom they are administered

are given no information whatsoever about what else they need to do

to fight dis-ease---no nutritional counseling, no exhortation to

exercise, no psychological counseling---nothing. They are " treated "

and left on their own.

Then of course there is the whole crazy idea of giving drugs that

cause neutropenia---that is destruction of the immune system---a

phenomenon that common sense tells one is hardly going to help a

person get well. Sick people are given drugs no doctor would dare

think of giving to a healthy person. In fact, were the doctor to give

such drugs to a healthy person, he'd be sued for malpractice.

On the other hand, about studies on rats or mice or guinea pigs...I

took advantage of a recent, preliminary study with mice which

appeared to show that curcumin lessened the resultant burning from

exposing the mice to radiation. I didn't bother to wait for studies

in humans. I took plenty of curcumin throughout the time I was being

treated with low-dose radiation. I figured I had nothing to lose,

especially since I was already taking curcumin as part of my anti-

cancer regimen.

Personally, though, I am rather bored and slightly annoyed when I see

a string of little articles about mouse or rat studies posted here

saying " raspberries do this, " " okra does that, " " blueberries do thus

and such " and " broccoli does so and so " because I have known for a

long time that one big " secret " of how to try to be healthiest is to

eat a wide variety of leafies, vegetables, fruits, berries, nuts,

seeds and oils, and that no one, particular one of those is going to

be THE thing that does the trick.

Elliot

September 11, 2007

Animal studies are very crude models for evaluating cancers and

sometimes the potential of new compounds (many time derived from

nature) to treat cancers... also providing only a rough guidance

regarding which compounds may have activity in humans, but also used to

estimate the toxicities and starting dose for clinical phase testing.

No drug for cancer is approved on the basis of animal studies. The

failure rate is indeed very high; only one in 5,000 compounds tested in

preclinical phase win marketing approval. The cost of bring a new drug

to market is about 800,000,000. So there's a big need for better

models and predictive tests to learn sooner which compounds have

potential in humans and which are losers.

~Karl

>

> I see that animal studies are regularly quoted in support of this

that or the other approach to cancer. The problem is that rat studies

only predictively apply to rats. They don't predict anything for mice,

rabbits, guinea pigs or humans. Thalidomide does not cause defects in

the foetuses of any of the normal experimental animals even at large

doses. Penicillin has no effect on rabbits, kills guinea pigs and

causes thalidomide-like malformations to rat foetuses.

>

> A rat breast cancer is a very different kind of tumour to a human

breast cancer. This is one of the reasons why so few orthodoxly-

researched treatments have proven to be successfull

>

September 11, 2007

Hi Elliot

Agree with most of what you say - especially the risk-benefit decision to go

for anything that seems useful.

On the fact that drugs go through an animal testing phase is actually an

accident of history. It was mandated by the 1938 Food, Drug and Cosmetics act.

Nowadays its limitations are understood but animal studies play a useful

'insurance' role allowing pharmaceutical companies to demonstrate they have done

due diligence. The trouble is that what is learnt from these studies cannot be

assumed to apply to humans.

As to human variability - there are indeed large differences between blacks,

whites and Asians - not to mention men and women - not to mention adults and

children - and no doubt you and me. Do recommend book Sacred Cows and Golden

Geese by Ray Greek M.D. and Greek

In fact Linus ing made the point in one of his books that it is a

statistical certainty that no-one is totally 'normal' - meaning sharing

characteristics with 95% of the population for every single bio-chemical

process. That means 5% of us will always give an odd result on any test.

Food for thought

breathedeepnow <aug20@...> wrote: