New to the board

[Guest guest]

Joe when I first read your wife's post at webMD my heart went out to you when I

got to the part were they took you off the gel. I knew you were going to crash

and having been on TRT and for the first time in your life feeling better this

type of crash is a bad one.

Now that we know you secondary and on HCG I know someone that is treating you

is doing it right. How much HCG are your doing. I hope they are not over doing

it with high dose's. This can Desensitize the Leydig cells in your testis and

make you primary not to mention the Leydig or LH receptors in the rest of your

body and brain. Also HCG or TRT for that matter can make your Estradiol go up

to high so you need to keep an eye on this. If it gets to high it will keep

your T levels down and keep you from feeling better. Also high Estradiol " E2 "

will kill you sex life so look out for this.

Also I feel you need to check out this site.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9

There are a number of guys in your boat and this site has 3 to 5 Dr.'s posting

helping men on there problems you could spend hrs just reading there info. One

that is great is Dr. nco he is a Physician, Psychiatrist, Behavioral

Neuroendocrinology and Immunology. And has helped a lot of men posting so us

laymen can understand what he is saying. The site is a body building site but

don't pay any att. to this just go to the Form " Men's Health Forum " .

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9

Post the same thing you did here and get more input.

Also get the book by Dr. Shippen " The Testosterone Syndrome " it is a dam good

read full of info you need to learn. The book is dated but still dam good read.

Here are some links to a Z who is seeing Dr. Shippen and is secondary on

HCG he has spent a lot of time writing about his treatment you need to read

this. I don't want to flood you with a lot of stuff to read. But at are home

page we have a links and files section full of info the more you learn the

better off you will be when seeing Dr.'s there just are not a lot of Dr.'s up on

this.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=134235700 & highlight=primer+hcg

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=134235701 & highlight=primer+hcg

Also a must read is the AACE Guidelines.

http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

I think this Dr. is one of the best on testosterone problems in men and

will work with your Family Dr. over the phone to test and treat you he trains

other DR. on this. Go to www.allthingsmale.com Read TRT: A Recipe for Success

and his HCG Update. You can also Email him.

The biggest problem we men with low T have is finding a good Dr. I feel

seeing Endo's and Uro's are the worst.

Phil

Joe Paladino <dacrow52@...> wrote: Hey Phil- thanks for the invite. I

definitely wanted to check the

group out- there's only so many times I can explain this to my

family before they ask me " what's wrong with you again? " or " oh so

you take levoxyl and you're ok now " ;-)

Also, to clarify from the WebMD board, luckily thus far I've been

hypogonatropic (secondary). 4 years ago, my initial blood workup had

VERY low testosterone, very low FSH/LH, and VERY high TSH, and high

growth hormone (I'm about 4-6 inches taller than I should be), which

I've since come to learn is indicative of a failure in the

hypothalamus to produce GnRH. I also had an MRI done- no pituitary

or brain tumors.

I went to an endocrinologist and was first diagnosed with

hypopituitarism. The doc put me on the gel and levoxyl and

I 'finished' puberty, but was not making sperm. This really wiped me

out at first, and the endo then said that all may not be lost as far

as fertility. He said that my problem was most likely in the

hypothalamus (based on my reactions to certain drugs and that my

pituitary was working in every other aspect besides producing

LH/FSH). He referred me to a urologist, who took me off the gel and

chlomid was tried- no success. It sucked. Within 2 months of being

off the gel, I had absolutely no sex drive, was fatigued very

easily, couldn't concentrate at all, and my semen production stopped.

I just started HCG (by itself) and have taken two shots (3rd

coming tomorrow). After only two shots, by energy levels are

increasing and I'm producing semen again. I have no idea how lasting

these results will be or if my body will ever make sperm, but so far

at least the preliminary results are somewhat encouraging.

[Guest guest]

Hey Joe and welcome to the group -

You will find guys on here from all aspects - some who have had the problem

since birth and some who developed at various stages in life for various

reasons. We all can benefit from each others experiences. Don't be afraid to ask

anything but be prepared to give out some personal info - we really can't give

you an educated opinion without all the facts. Most if not all have experienced

erection issues, premature ejaculation, no sex drive..... all the things that

are tough to talk about but here you should not feel that way. This group has a

huge amount of experience and knowledge and folks who really want to help a

fellow out.

Once again - welcome and keep us posted on your results and ask questions -

even if folks don't respond - you may be helping someone else and not even know

it

Arkansas

Joe Paladino <dacrow52@...> wrote:

Hey fellas,

I found this place through the message board at WebMD (which was

originally introduced to me by my wife) and was reading through some

old posts. I was ready to type out a very long-winded post about my

expierence with this whole ordeal, but a poster here by the name of

Elliot Baker has already said it best:

" I understand all too well about hypgonadism side-effects. It's

complicated to explain to someone what this diease can cause and how

that effect alters a persons life...I know the feeling about living

your WHOLE life unhealthy and never feeling normal. Even with a

cause and treatment, that doesnt expel what you have been

through...The begining in founding out what was wrong, and doing

something about it while working with professionals, researching,

and seeking out advice to help you create and emulate a new start

toward your life. "

Damn. Tough to put it any better than that. From the time I was 16-

17 I knew something was " wrong " . It's tormenting- knowing something

is wrong but having no idea what or why. With other ailments, you

can point to the lump or broken bone or pox and go " see-look, I'm

sick " and everyone would understand- who in the world would possibly

understand " um, my body doesn't want to grow up? " I watched all my

friends basically 'grow up' and go through puberty while I was still

stuck at 13. I hid it well enough- I played two varisty sports, had

girlfriends, and was always the one " who just looked young " . On the

outside and on paper I was your " a-ok guy " , but in reality I felt

like I was trapped in a moving prison. Why wasn't I growing facial

hair like my friends? how come when I worked out, I never got any

bigger? We all had health class in jr. high and high school and knew

how the male reproductive organs worked, but my friggin' body sure

as hell didn't work like the ones in the books and videos.

Every hour of every day I constantly worried- " what the hell is

wrong with me???...I haven't really gone through puberty and more

important, how can I possibly tell anyone this without getting

laughed off the face of the planet? " . I thought I was the only

person in the world who had this 'strange, unexplainable' disease

and had NO idea there was any way to treat it. I'm very fortunate to

have started that 'beginning' Elliot talked about, and now feel even

more fortunate to find a place like this.

[Guest guest]

Hey Joe,

I normally post on the other hypogonadism board, but Phil had

mentioned you had posted here, and having read what your wife wrote at

WebMD, I felt I could relate because my story is exactly like your story.

I am now 37 years old and I have been on TRT for 11 years. But it

wasn't until I discovered these message boards that I started getting

a fuller understanding of how to treat my condition. I am secondary

hypogonadic, but nobody was never able to explain why.

I started puberty at the age of 13, but it never progressed. I

basically remained in Tanner Stage Four, never making it to the fifth

and final stage of pubertal development.

Even after all these years on TRT, I still only have sparse hair under

my arms. I've been on HCG and Arimidex and Nolvadex for the last few

months for the first time in the 11 years and it seems to be getting

better.

After all the research I've done, I've come to the conclusion that my

condition stems from a very serious head injury I had when I was four

years old. I still have the scar above my nose. I believe that injury

affected my pituitary gland and other frontal lobe functions because I

also have severe ADHD and I tend to insomiac (melatonin is also

produced in this area).

Anyway, I know exactly what you mean by feeling like you're the only

person in the world with this condition.

- In , " Joe Paladino " <dacrow52@...> wrote:

>

> Hey fellas,

>

> I found this place through the message board at WebMD (which was

> originally introduced to me by my wife) and was reading through some

> old posts. I was ready to type out a very long-winded post about my

> expierence with this whole ordeal, but a poster here by the name of

> Elliot Baker has already said it best:

>

> " I understand all too well about hypgonadism side-effects. It's

> complicated to explain to someone what this diease can cause and how

> that effect alters a persons life...I know the feeling about living

> your WHOLE life unhealthy and never feeling normal. Even with a

> cause and treatment, that doesnt expel what you have been

> through...The begining in founding out what was wrong, and doing

> something about it while working with professionals, researching,

> and seeking out advice to help you create and emulate a new start

> toward your life. "

>

> Damn. Tough to put it any better than that. From the time I was 16-

> 17 I knew something was " wrong " . It's tormenting- knowing something

> is wrong but having no idea what or why. With other ailments, you

> can point to the lump or broken bone or pox and go " see-look, I'm

> sick " and everyone would understand- who in the world would possibly

> understand " um, my body doesn't want to grow up? " I watched all my

> friends basically 'grow up' and go through puberty while I was still

> stuck at 13. I hid it well enough- I played two varisty sports, had

> girlfriends, and was always the one " who just looked young " . On the

> outside and on paper I was your " a-ok guy " , but in reality I felt

> like I was trapped in a moving prison. Why wasn't I growing facial

> hair like my friends? how come when I worked out, I never got any

> bigger? We all had health class in jr. high and high school and knew

> how the male reproductive organs worked, but my friggin' body sure

> as hell didn't work like the ones in the books and videos.

>

> Every hour of every day I constantly worried- " what the hell is

> wrong with me???...I haven't really gone through puberty and more

> important, how can I possibly tell anyone this without getting

> laughed off the face of the planet? " . I thought I was the only

> person in the world who had this 'strange, unexplainable' disease

> and had NO idea there was any way to treat it. I'm very fortunate to

> have started that 'beginning' Elliot talked about, and now feel even

> more fortunate to find a place like this.

>

[Guest guest]

,

Elma, the picnic's hostess, has generously opened her home to any and

all bandsters every year. As far as I know nothing has changed and

everyone is invited.

>

>I saw in the

> Files sections directions to a pinic. I live not to far from the

> picnic area, I was wondering is this a picnic for all bandsters or

> invitation only?

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Lidia - welcome! Glad you're here!

Sharon Osbourne is not the greatest Bandster! In a few interviews

I've seen, she didn't even know what she had - called it " some kind

of bypass " . We really have no idea why she is having her band

removed - she could have a slip or erosion requiring it to be removed.

But it's clear to me that, although she has lost weight, she has not

worked on all the other issues, like the emotional eating, and more.

Any of us can regain easily if we think the band is the key to

success, wihtout our doing our parts. Her lifestly is also far from

an ideal Bandster lifestly, imo.

She says she is having it removed because she regained 25 # and she

realizes she has not worked on her issues. Well, she doesn't need to

have it removed to work on " issues. " Unless there is a medical reason

for removing it, keeping it in to help WHILE she is working on issues

is a much better idea, imo.

But I doubt we'll even know the whole story -with ANY " celebrity. "

Sandy R

> > > Yesterday, I went to the docs for my first fill. I am having a

> strange

> > > reaction. I can eat foods and can tell that there is some

> restriction

> > > but I CAN'T DRINK WATER. I have a Ianamed VG 11Cm band and it

> was

> > > filled 6 cc's. I am afraid I will dehydrate if I can't get

more

> water

> > > down. It has taken me a 1/2 hour to drink 6 ozs. I could use

> some

> > > advice. Thanks Diane H.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm an opponent, not proponent, of the bad information that is

propagated on flaxseed oil. It only converts to essential omega-3's

DHA and EPA at 1%, and the balance is ineffective and inflammatory.

Research has shown that breast-fed babies who have no plant-based

omega 3 but have DHA and EPA in their breast milk do well; what does

this tell you about the statement this oil is " essential " ? It tells me

that the statement " LNA omega-3 is essential to humans " is really only

a lie promoted by the seed oil manufacturers, and that you would do

better with the actual essential omega-3's DHA and EPA in your diet.

Have fun with your group for flaxseed oil

Duncan

> Any big proponents, like me, of flaxseed here? I'll have to check

if

> there is a group for that too.

>

[Guest guest]

hi duncan -- i'm thrown for a loop a little at your, radical (at least

for me) opinions about flaxseed, grains, dairy products ... I respect

your right to have them of course, and, admittedly am not

knowledgeable enough to debate you on it.

I do however see red flags when I see the promotion of HGH. That is

another big no-no that you will never convince me of. Can you

honestly tell me that HGH is safe?

I had breast cancer 10 years ago, and sometimes listen to Suzanne

Somers, who also had BC. I cannot believe she takes HGH! Her

credibility is 0 with me.

[Guest guest]

lionandlamb3,

On the HGH subject, you have misinterpreted or misread my input -- I

don't promote HGH shots. Doctors who support HGH increase in the

natural way, with food, which amino acids are, generally do not

support the HGH shots. Here's a graphic representation of what I'm

talking about:

http://tinyurl.com/345xmd

The reasons the doctors cite for not using HGH shots (as opposed to

SomaLife gHP which triggers your natural HGH secretion) are:

1) that HGH is derived from genetically-spliced (GMO) e. coli bacteria

and therefore not natural, and not real HGH, and as such can be

avoided if there are options

2) that HGH shots in any case must fall within natural levels or

negative side effects can result

That said, yes, HGH shots can be safe (but again I don't promote them

and you'd never convince ME that they are preferred), if they are

given often enough that the dose can be properly controlled, like the

natural levels are. This means not giving 4 times the normal dose once

daily, but the right dose four times daily. Early experiments that

used HGH gave the shots once or twice a week; at once a week, about 28

times a natural pulsed dose was given, thus the side effect associated

with high dosing.

Further, in studies done on elderly subjects, almost no cancer starts

occurred in the HGH treatment group, even with HGH given as shots, but

normal cancer starts occurred in the CONTROLS, so Suzanne Sommers is

actually right on and in step with the research and you are wrong in

your interpretation. HGH is indeed safe (but again, I don't promote

HGH shots but natural pulsatile inducement).

I've read the research and it really opened my eyes too on

carbohydrate intake (online keyword: advanced glycation end-products)

and flaxseed oil (refer to Chilton's book Inflammation Nation or

online, the actual composition of cells in the body). The body has no

known use for linolenic acid besides a tiny conversion to DHA and EPA.

Chilton's quote appears in my Budwig Diet revision (google budwig diet

revision).

Don't worry about being thrown for a loop by nutrition facts that

contradict myths, and do be careful about what you read and

misinterpret, as it might make you unwilling to learn what the author

actually wrote

Duncan Crow (a wholistic consultant in Canada)

http://

>

> hi duncan -- i'm thrown for a loop a little at your, radical (at

least

> for me) opinions about flaxseed, grains, dairy products ... I

respect

> your right to have them of course, and, admittedly am not

> knowledgeable enough to debate you on it.

>

> I do however see red flags when I see the promotion of HGH. That is

> another big no-no that you will never convince me of. Can you

> honestly tell me that HGH is safe?

>

> I had breast cancer 10 years ago, and sometimes listen to Suzanne

> Somers, who also had BC. I cannot believe she takes HGH! Her

> credibility is 0 with me.

>

[Guest guest]

hi again duncan -- again, can't debate you intelligently as I know

virtually nothing on the subject matter, except my gut feeling that

it's 'messin with mother nature' for this perenially sought after

thing called the fountain of youth. And, any doctor I have ever

asked about hgh has said to stay away from it.

Now what you are saying about injected HGH (e. coli? ewwwww!)vs.

this youth formula product that you sell, is intriguing, will have

to read more about it. Now provided someone would want to embark on

your product, don't they need to be under the guidance of an M.D.?

My feeling is that I don't know that I could find anyone here (in

NYC) that would be a proponent of any form of HGH.

Do you know what Suzanne Somers takes. Doesn't Clint Eastwood also

take it. I think Blondie does some sort of bovine injections.

My feeling is at this early point that it playing with fire, but I

am open to understanding it more.

You made some points about glutathione and milk ... I still prefer

and do not miss dairy at all. Are glutathione supplements derived

from milk? If they are derived from a vegan source perhaps I could

take that? I remember an integrative M.D. I went to had me take

glutathione in the regimen he prescribed for me (at that point I was

still a carnivore).

Very interesting to encounter your point of view.

Be well.

[Guest guest]

I would love to try HGH, however unless I can pick it from a tree I guess

I'll skip it ;-)

_____

From: Coconut Oil

[mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of lionandlamb3

Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:52 PM

Coconut Oil

Subject: Re: new to the board

hi again duncan -- again, can't debate you intelligently as I know

virtually nothing on the subject matter, except my gut feeling that

it's 'messin with mother nature' for this perenially sought after

thing called the fountain of youth. And, any doctor I have ever

asked about hgh has said to stay away from it.

Now what you are saying about injected HGH (e. coli? ewwwww!)vs.

this youth formula product that you sell, is intriguing, will have

to read more about it. Now provided someone would want to embark on

your product, don't they need to be under the guidance of an M.D.?

My feeling is that I don't know that I could find anyone here (in

NYC) that would be a proponent of any form of HGH.

Do you know what Suzanne Somers takes. Doesn't Clint Eastwood also

take it. I think Blondie does some sort of bovine injections.

My feeling is at this early point that it playing with fire, but I

am open to understanding it more.

You made some points about glutathione and milk ... I still prefer

and do not miss dairy at all. Are glutathione supplements derived

from milk? If they are derived from a vegan source perhaps I could

take that? I remember an integrative M.D. I went to had me take

glutathione in the regimen he prescribed for me (at that point I was

still a carnivore).

Very interesting to encounter your point of view.

Be well.

[Guest guest]

lionandlamb3, we're messing with the planned obsolescence and (early)

demise that nature has in store for us.

Look at it this way for a moment: in your particular region you might

be SUPPOSED to die fairly young through flooding, water contamination

or regional mineral/vitamin deficiency. So, raising dikes to avoid

drowning or even taking a supplement to counteract a known regional

deficiency in your area can be seen as 'messin with mother nature',

right?

What we're doing in althealth is improving natural malabsorption,

natural deficiency, and naturally falling growth patterns that kill

us so we can survive longer in good health.

I agree with you that all of it is 'messin with mother nature', but I

point out that we're actually on the same side because you are also

interested in messin with mother nature by virtue of the fact that

you're on this very list because you don't want to just give up and

let yourself and your family die young of things that can easily be

avoided; I've just been into it longer than you have, as you

mentioned.

No, the HGH inducer SomaLife gHP youth formula or SomaLife gHP Sport

formula does not need a doctor's guidance; once the doctors propose

it they only follow up on that particular avenue after 6 months or so

to see IF any remaining issue might merit medical intervention. That

said, they still attend to outright disease conditions if they need

to, but again, these are anti-aging specialists with their own

clinics, who know that most things are cured with diet, detox, and

HGH increase. It really IS that simple for 95% of the population, and

that's why I pattern my own consultancy after their SUCCESSES, as

opposed to the EFFORTS without success, of others. The elegance of

their approach is that knowing and applying this stuff doesn't even

require medical training!

gain, it's not any form of HGH we're discussing, but a balanced body,

thus of course it's hard to find any Doctor who knows anything about

it because they don't get the training for it!

Milk, whey actually, provides bonded cysteine, the rate-limiting

glutathione precursor. As far as I know there aren't any vegan

alternatives for the missing bonded cysteine for glutathione

production. Free form cysteine is a toxin; it must be bonded. Even

cystine [sic] which is cysteine=cysteine bonded, is derived from

hair, fur or feathers; the vegan movement has produced no

alternative.

Duncan

>

> hi again duncan -- again, can't debate you intelligently as I know

> virtually nothing on the subject matter, except my gut feeling that

> it's 'messin with mother nature' for this perenially sought after

> thing called the fountain of youth. And, any doctor I have ever

> asked about hgh has said to stay away from it.

>

> Now what you are saying about injected HGH (e. coli? ewwwww!)vs.

> this youth formula product that you sell, is intriguing, will have

> to read more about it. Now provided someone would want to embark

on

> your product, don't they need to be under the guidance of an M.D.?

> My feeling is that I don't know that I could find anyone here (in

> NYC) that would be a proponent of any form of HGH.

>

> Do you know what Suzanne Somers takes. Doesn't Clint Eastwood also

> take it. I think Blondie does some sort of bovine injections.

>

> My feeling is at this early point that it playing with fire, but I

> am open to understanding it more.

>

> You made some points about glutathione and milk ... I still prefer

> and do not miss dairy at all. Are glutathione supplements derived

> from milk? If they are derived from a vegan source perhaps I could

> take that? I remember an integrative M.D. I went to had me take

> glutathione in the regimen he prescribed for me (at that point I

was

> still a carnivore).

>

> Very interesting to encounter your point of view.

>

> Be well.

>

[Guest guest]

Rodger, SomaLife gHP youth formula, the HGH promoter, is

indeed " picked from a tree " ...well, sort of; it's Vegan-safe, from

non-GMO soy, capped in a veggie cap.

Anyway, I wouldn't want to impose such strict measures on my lifespan

as to avoid anything that is not fresh produce! Why should you?

Duncan

>

> I would love to try HGH, however unless I can pick it from a tree I

guess

> I'll skip it ;-)

>

> _____

>

> From: Coconut Oil

> [mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of

lionandlamb3

> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:52 PM

> Coconut Oil

> Subject: Re: new to the board

>

>

>

> hi again duncan -- again, can't debate you intelligently as I know

> virtually nothing on the subject matter, except my gut feeling that

> it's 'messin with mother nature' for this perenially sought after

> thing called the fountain of youth. And, any doctor I have ever

> asked about hgh has said to stay away from it.

>

> Now what you are saying about injected HGH (e. coli? ewwwww!)vs.

> this youth formula product that you sell, is intriguing, will have

> to read more about it. Now provided someone would want to embark on

> your product, don't they need to be under the guidance of an M.D.?

> My feeling is that I don't know that I could find anyone here (in

> NYC) that would be a proponent of any form of HGH.

>

> Do you know what Suzanne Somers takes. Doesn't Clint Eastwood also

> take it. I think Blondie does some sort of bovine injections.

>

> My feeling is at this early point that it playing with fire, but I

> am open to understanding it more.

>

> You made some points about glutathione and milk ... I still prefer

> and do not miss dairy at all. Are glutathione supplements derived

> from milk? If they are derived from a vegan source perhaps I could

> take that? I remember an integrative M.D. I went to had me take

> glutathione in the regimen he prescribed for me (at that point I

was

> still a carnivore).

>

> Very interesting to encounter your point of view.

>

> Be well.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Would that be the tree of Life ....... (Oh no Friday quips are the worst)

Non the less, interesting. Worth some investigation...... got to get those

wrinkles out.

_____

From: Coconut Oil

[mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Duncan Crow

Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:35 PM

Coconut Oil

Subject: Re: new to the board

Rodger, SomaLife gHP youth formula, the HGH promoter, is

indeed " picked from a tree " ...well, sort of; it's Vegan-safe, from

non-GMO soy, capped in a veggie cap.

Anyway, I wouldn't want to impose such strict measures on my lifespan

as to avoid anything that is not fresh produce! Why should you?

Duncan

>

> I would love to try HGH, however unless I can pick it from a tree I

guess

> I'll skip it ;-)

>

> _____

>

> From: coconut_oil_ <mailto:Coconut Oil%40>

open_forum

> [mailto:coconut_oil_ <mailto:Coconut Oil%40>

open_forum ] On Behalf Of

lionandlamb3

> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:52 PM

> coconut_oil_ <mailto:Coconut Oil%40>

open_forum

> Subject: Re: new to the board

>

>

>

> hi again duncan -- again, can't debate you intelligently as I know

> virtually nothing on the subject matter, except my gut feeling that

> it's 'messin with mother nature' for this perenially sought after

> thing called the fountain of youth. And, any doctor I have ever

> asked about hgh has said to stay away from it.

>

> Now what you are saying about injected HGH (e. coli? ewwwww!)vs.

> this youth formula product that you sell, is intriguing, will have

> to read more about it. Now provided someone would want to embark on

> your product, don't they need to be under the guidance of an M.D.?

> My feeling is that I don't know that I could find anyone here (in

> NYC) that would be a proponent of any form of HGH.

>

> Do you know what Suzanne Somers takes. Doesn't Clint Eastwood also

> take it. I think Blondie does some sort of bovine injections.

>

> My feeling is at this early point that it playing with fire, but I

> am open to understanding it more.

>

> You made some points about glutathione and milk ... I still prefer

> and do not miss dairy at all. Are glutathione supplements derived

> from milk? If they are derived from a vegan source perhaps I could

> take that? I remember an integrative M.D. I went to had me take

> glutathione in the regimen he prescribed for me (at that point I

was

> still a carnivore).

>

> Very interesting to encounter your point of view.

>

> Be well.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rodger, if you want the wrinkles out, in more ways than one this

is the route to go. You will recycle cross-linked tissues and other

scars like a youth does and lay down new growth of young skin and

other lean tissue, also like a twenty-something.

I think the " Tree of Life " is marijuana, the real sacramental herb of

the Church of the Universe! The reverends lost their recent case in

supreme court in Ontario after being busted for *selling* the

sacrament. I would have thought a sacramental herb would be free from

the clergy! How's that for a Friday quip?

Duncan

>

> Would that be the tree of Life ....... (Oh no Friday quips are the

worst)

>

> Non the less, interesting. Worth some investigation...... got to

get those

> wrinkles out.

[Guest guest]

LOL, I love it.......

_____

From: Coconut Oil

[mailto:Coconut Oil ] On Behalf Of Duncan Crow

Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 8:29 PM

Coconut Oil

Subject: Re: new to the board

Rodger, if you want the wrinkles out, in more ways than one this

is the route to go. You will recycle cross-linked tissues and other

scars like a youth does and lay down new growth of young skin and

other lean tissue, also like a twenty-something.

I think the " Tree of Life " is marijuana, the real sacramental herb of

the Church of the Universe! The reverends lost their recent case in

supreme court in Ontario after being busted for *selling* the

sacrament. I would have thought a sacramental herb would be free from

the clergy! How's that for a Friday quip?

Duncan

>

> Would that be the tree of Life ....... (Oh no Friday quips are the

worst)

>

> Non the less, interesting. Worth some investigation...... got to

get those

> wrinkles out.

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm an opponent, not proponent, of the bad information that is

> propagated on flaxseed oil. It only converts to essential omega-3's

> DHA and EPA at 1%, and the balance is ineffective and inflammatory.

Sorry, not to stir the pot here, but what about these statements:

" The omega-3 fatty acids are recognized as being important, and the

conversion of the flax oil-type omega-3 fatty acid (alpha-linolenic

acid) to the fish oil-type omega-3 fatty acids (EPA and DHA) is

enhanced when the diet contains saturated fat such as coconut oil.

This conversion is hindered when there is extra omega-6 oils in the

diet.4 " - Enig

When I dug up footnote 4, I found this:

Vitamin Research Department, F. Hoffman-Roche Ltd, Basel, Switzerland.

A diet including 2-3 portions of fatty fish per week, which

corresponds to the intake of 1.25 g EPA (20:5n-3) + DHA (22:6n-3) per

day, has been officially recommended on the basis of epidemiological

findings showing a beneficial role of these n-3 long-chain PUFA in the

prevention of cardiovascular and inflammatory diseases. The parent

fatty acid ALA (18:3n-3), found in vegetable oils such as flaxseed or

rapeseed oil, is used by the human organism partly as a source of

energy, partly as a precursor of the metabolites, but the degree of

conversion appears to be unreliable and restricted. More specifically,

most studies in humans have shown that whereas a certain, though

restricted, conversion of high doses of ALA to EPA occurs, conversion

to DHA is severely restricted. The use of ALA labelled with

radioisotopes suggested that with a background diet high in saturated

fat conversion to long-chain metabolites is approximately 6% for EPA

and 3.8% for DHA. With a diet rich in n-6 PUFA, conversion is reduced

by 40 to 50%. It is thus reasonable to observe an n-6/n-3 PUFA ratio

not exceeding 4-6. Restricted conversion to DHA may be critical since

evidence has been increasing that this long-chain metabolite has an

autonomous function, e.g. in the brain, retina and spermatozoa where

it is the most prominent fatty acid. In neonates deficiency is

associated with visual impairment, abnormalities in the

electroretinogram and delayed cognitive development. In adults the

potential role of DHA in neurological function still needs to be

investigated in depth. Regarding cardiovascular risk factors DHA has

been shown to reduce triglyceride concentrations. These findings

indicate that future attention will have to focus on the adequate

provision of DHA which can reliably be achieved only with the supply

of the preformed long-chain metabolite.

PMID: 9637947 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

This is long winded, sorry for that. It appears that the conversion

is greater than 1% when saturated fat is added.

I am by no means saying that we should be trying to get all of our

omega-3 from flax, just trying to unmuddy waters, if possible.

-vanessa

.... pot stirrer

[Guest guest]

, there are other experiments on conversion of LNA to DHA and

EPA; that's why the 1% figure in Dr. Chilton's book Inflammation

Nation.

Duncan

> >

> > I'm an opponent, not proponent, of the bad information that is

> > propagated on flaxseed oil. It only converts to essential omega-

3's

> > DHA and EPA at 1%, and the balance is ineffective and

inflammatory.

>

> Sorry, not to stir the pot here, but what about these statements:

>

> " The omega-3 fatty acids are recognized as being important, and the

> conversion of the flax oil-type omega-3 fatty acid (alpha-linolenic

> acid) to the fish oil-type omega-3 fatty acids (EPA and DHA) is

> enhanced when the diet contains saturated fat such as coconut oil.

> This conversion is hindered when there is extra omega-6 oils in the

> diet.4 " - Enig

>

> When I dug up footnote 4, I found this:

>

> Vitamin Research Department, F. Hoffman-Roche Ltd, Basel,

Switzerland.

>

> A diet including 2-3 portions of fatty fish per week, which

> corresponds to the intake of 1.25 g EPA (20:5n-3) + DHA (22:6n-3)

per

> day, has been officially recommended on the basis of epidemiological

> findings showing a beneficial role of these n-3 long-chain PUFA in

the

> prevention of cardiovascular and inflammatory diseases. The parent

> fatty acid ALA (18:3n-3), found in vegetable oils such as flaxseed

or

> rapeseed oil, is used by the human organism partly as a source of

> energy, partly as a precursor of the metabolites, but the degree of

> conversion appears to be unreliable and restricted. More

specifically,

> most studies in humans have shown that whereas a certain, though

> restricted, conversion of high doses of ALA to EPA occurs,

conversion

> to DHA is severely restricted. The use of ALA labelled with

> radioisotopes suggested that with a background diet high in

saturated

> fat conversion to long-chain metabolites is approximately 6% for EPA

> and 3.8% for DHA. With a diet rich in n-6 PUFA, conversion is

reduced

> by 40 to 50%. It is thus reasonable to observe an n-6/n-3 PUFA ratio

> not exceeding 4-6. Restricted conversion to DHA may be critical

since

> evidence has been increasing that this long-chain metabolite has an

> autonomous function, e.g. in the brain, retina and spermatozoa where

> it is the most prominent fatty acid. In neonates deficiency is

> associated with visual impairment, abnormalities in the

> electroretinogram and delayed cognitive development. In adults the

> potential role of DHA in neurological function still needs to be

> investigated in depth. Regarding cardiovascular risk factors DHA has

> been shown to reduce triglyceride concentrations. These findings

> indicate that future attention will have to focus on the adequate

> provision of DHA which can reliably be achieved only with the supply

> of the preformed long-chain metabolite.

>

> PMID: 9637947 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

> This is long winded, sorry for that. It appears that the conversion

> is greater than 1% when saturated fat is added.

>

> I am by no means saying that we should be trying to get all of our

> omega-3 from flax, just trying to unmuddy waters, if possible.

>

> -vanessa

>

> ... pot stirrer

>

[Guest guest]

I am new to this board and want to introduce myself. I am 46 married with two

daughters. I live in central California.

My mother in law has breast, bone and now liver cancer. The Oncologist basically

said, times up. I realize it might be, but she is not a quitter nor do I feel

like being one. They stopped all treatments at this point, but she is naturally

feeling better without the Chemo treatments at this point. Should she seek out a

second opinion or should she look at alternatives? If the later, what? Times

like these, complicated and expensive herbs can be overwhelming. We are looking

for simplicity and opinions, as you tend to get a bit frozen by it all.

Sincerely,

Troy

[Guest guest]

Well Troy, now is the time to begin treatments that would give her a fighting

chance....I would start her today on sodium bicarbonate given orally and

transdermally as the lead treatment...backed to the hilt with magneisum chloride

and iodine, and then a full naturopathic protocol behind it. I will be writing

in the next month about such situations considered Pallaitive Care or Hospice

treatments....its amazing what the right stuff will do for you near the end.

Does not save everyone (we all pass away sooner or later no matter what we do)

but I have seen people turn on a dime and get a new lease on life. One similar

case was a man given weeks to live and he was already a basket case and let out

of the hospital to pasture...within 48 hours on protocol he was running around

and going to his grandchildrens parties and a few weeks later even to someone

elses funeral and everyone was amazed and super hopful. After about three and a

half weeks of this burst of energy he had a quick reversal and passed away quite

peacefully and everyone was greateful. It is not fair to lead people on with

false expectations so I share this story. Sodium bicarbonate is used in

conjunction with most chemo treatments but not to cure the cancer but to protect

the patient from being killed quickly by the harsh chemo agents. Its a no

brainer, a nothing to lose everything to gain super inexpensive treatment but

should not under any circumstances be used without a full protocol backing it up

and with appropriate supervision. This next week I hope to launch a new site on

sodium bicarbonate and I am the only one in the world to have written a full

medical review on sodium bicarbonate that old household item you can buy for

peanuts. You can change the entire terrain of a persons physiology with bicarb

especially when used with magnesium chloride. The two together I call the

Ultimate Mitochondrial Cocktail.

Mark Sircus Ac., OMD

From: jonahjairus27@...

I am new to this board and want to introduce myself. I am 46 married with

two daughters. I live in central California.

My mother in law has breast, bone and now liver cancer. The Oncologist

basically said, times up. I realize it might be, but she is not a quitter nor do

I feel like being one. They stopped all treatments at this point, but she is

naturally feeling better without the Chemo treatments at this point. Should she

seek out a second opinion or should she look at alternatives? If the later,

what? Times like these, complicated and expensive herbs can be overwhelming. We

are looking for simplicity and opinions, as you tend to get a bit frozen by it

all.

Sincerely,

Troy

[Guest guest]

Hi Troy,

If your mother in law would consider changing her diet, she may be

helped by Dr. Johanna Budwig's plan for healing cancer and other conditions.

Although there is not one answer when it comes to this disease and no plan works

for everyone, the Budwig diet has healed advanced cancers for thousands of

people. It doesn't cost anything except what you pay for groceries.

There is a group called FlaxSeedOil2 with members who are following this

plan and getting well. Over 150 testimonials have been received from those who

have regained their health using this method.

We received a testimonial today about an 87 year old woman whose tests

show she is reducing lung tumors by using the Budwig diet.

Below are excerpts from some of the messages about breast cancer.

1] Breast Cancer, stage 3 - Vijai wrote:

" My wife was diagnosed with Stage 3 Breast Cancer in August 08...She completed

all six chemo sessions (Dec 31st 08) and then we started on the Budwig Protocol

(Jan 09). After the chemo, she still had a very large tumor in her right breast

and another small tumor in her left breast...she was NOT on any drugs...the ONLY

thing she was on was the Budwig Protocol. The Oncologists and Surgeons ALL told

her that with the size of tumor her situation is life threatening...She was on

the Budwig Plan for exactly 2 1/2 months prior to surgery - which was on 17th

March 09. The pathological report on the tissues removed from surgery found:

1.No tumors, 2.No cancer cells. She is cancer free. "

2] Estrogen-driven aggressive breast cancer - Yasmeen wrote:

" I've been following the BP for about 5 months now....I have been 'naughty' at

times, and eaten the wrong things...I went for my 3 monthly scan, Once the scan

was done, the radiologist looked puzzled as she asked me to confirm I'd had no

chemo since my last scan. I told her I hadn't....I was told that I still had a

cyst in my breast, which was no different to last time, but that my lymph nodes

which are affected had shrunk by a few mm's! I was so taken aback. The doctor

said, " Well, what can I say? Just carry on doing what your doing, because it

seems to be working for you! "

3] Breast Cancer w/mets to the bones - Cheryl wrote:

" BC which metastatized to my bones...started the[budwig] diet...did research

into herbs and cleansing...kept my prayer life active...I had a PET...the hot

spots are gone...my numbers went from 698 to 350. I am so ecstatic... "

4] Estrogen positive breast cancer w/mets -- wrote;

" It is so different working with this diet, so positive...I hadn't seen my

oncologist in over a year and, when I finally saw him two weeks ago he couldnt

figure out why my tumor marker had gone down with no chemo or radiation. "

If you would like to learn more about the Budwig plan, please click

this link and join FlaxSeedOil2. You will automatically receive a

summary of the plan.

flaxseedoil2

Also, you can read about the program, read more testimonials and watch a video

showing how to make the core recipe of flax seed oil and cottage cheese with

fruit and other cancer-fighting foods at this URL. http://www.budwigvideos.com

Best wishes,

" jonahjairus27@... " wrote:

>

> I am new to this board and want to introduce myself. I am 46 married with two

daughters. I live in central California.

> My mother in law has breast, bone and now liver cancer. The Oncologist

basically said, times up. I realize it might be, but she is not a quitter nor do

I feel like being one. They stopped all treatments at this point, but she is

naturally feeling better without the Chemo treatments at this point. Should she

seek out a second opinion or should she look at alternatives? If the later,

what? Times like these, complicated and expensive herbs can be overwhelming. We

are looking for simplicity and opinions, as you tend to get a bit frozen by it

all.

> Sincerely,

> Troy

>

[Guest guest]

Mark,

What is the sodium bicarbonate protocol? I have bee unable to locate any therapy

or protocol for sodium bicarbonate.

Thanks,

Chas

" Mark Sircus Ac., OMD " wrote:

>

> ...I would start her today on sodium bicarbonate given orally and

transdermally as the lead treatment...backed to the hilt with magneisum chloride

and iodine, and then a full naturopathic protocol behind it......

[Guest guest]

Well for full information you would have to read my book but two essays recently

published that are not in the book are

http://www.imva.info/news/sodium-bicarbonate-baking-soda-cancer-treatment.html

http://www.imva.info/news/oral-dosages-of-bicarbonate.html

I should have a bicarbonate site up sometime in the next week but remember my

bicarbonate protocol is not just bicarbonate its a full protocol including heavy

use of magneisum chloride ( seem my site called www.magnesiumforlife.com for

info on what is called magnesium oil (This link is to the best stuff)......

magneisum bicarbonate is called the Ultimate Mitocohdrial Cocktail in my work

and then as I mentioned to a full protocol including importantly iodine,

selenium, the sun, good water, spirulina, ala, naturopathic things like colonics

and body work etc....even clay.....all are part of my bicarbonate protocol

Dr. Mark

From: ino_uno308

Mark,

What is the sodium bicarbonate protocol? I have bee unable to locate any

therapy or protocol for sodium bicarbonate.

Thanks,

Chas

[Guest guest]

Hi Abigail -

I had my HM 20 years ago and still occasionally have spasms. They have

gradually decreased in frequency over the years. What I learned to do is, at

the first sign of chest pain, drink something carbonated. My drink of choice is

Diet Coke but I don't think it matters. I have found that my pain is associated

with air in my esophagus and to stop the pain from turning into retching spasms

I need to get that air out of their, i.e. belch. Sometimes I have had to chug 2

or 3 cans to get the pain to go away. The other thing that can help is Levsin

(hyoscyamine) under the tongue.

My spasms gradually shifted from the middle of the night to during my morning

commute on the subway. There are some advantages to having the attack at home!

Good luck,

Bea Soila

>

> Hi all,

>

> My name is Abigail and I am a 26 year old who was diagnosed with Achalasia

last year in April.

> My symptoms started in Nov - Dec 2010 when noticed occasional difficulty

swallowing. I tried chewing more, but it did not seem to help. Then, I started

getting frequent heartburn. I went to see a GI who said these symptoms could be

a number of things and recommended a endoscopy. The endoscopy was normal and he

stretched the LES slightly which he told me shold help with the difficulty

swallowing; it did not.

> He then recommended that I have a esophogeal manometry (the worst test

EVER!), which showed that the peristalsis was gone, all the muscles were moving

at the same time. It also showed that my LES was very constricted. At this point

my GI knew I had Achalasia but wanted to do a barium swallow to confirm. He also

ordered a blood test for Chagas disease since I have been to central america 5

times in the past 7 years. The barium swallow showed a delayed release of the

solution and confirmed the diagnosis.

> Throughout the months of all of the doctor appointments and tests and

things, I developed a scary new symptom. I would wake up in the middle of the

night coughing up stomach fluid and/or food that had not emptied into my

stomach. This sounds gross, but sometimes the food would come up through my

nose. I had to buy a special pillow and sleep upright. My eating also got worse

and I could only take a couple of bites of each meal. I would be on my second

bite, and my fiance would be finishing his meal. Drinking liquids was just as

bad. My weight dropped dramatically.

> I weighed all of my options for treatment and decided to go with the HM with

Dor fundoplication (in Aug). It was done with the Da Vinci robot, which is a

very advanced surgical machine that helps the surgeons to make very precise

incisions and gives them more control. I ended up having to stay in the hospital

for 3 nights rather than the standard 1 due to post operative swelling.Has

anyone else had the HM with DF? If so, how long ago and how are you faring?

> Since the surgery I am back up to my normal weight, I can sleep laying down,

I rarely have heartburn, and eating is much better. However, some foods are more

difficult to eat than others. I also occasionally get the spasms and they

usually (and very inconveniently) happen in the middle of the night. I was

taking amitriptyline for this but it did not help too much. What do you guys do

when you have these spasms?

> Anyway, I am glad I found a board for Achalasia sufferers. I look forward to

getting to know you all.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Abigail, I am 33 now, but I was about 25 when I had my HM and DF. I had

one of the pioneer surgeons with Da Vinci, back at the University of

Illinois in Chicago, and I am glad I didn't wait. I found after a few weeks

that certain foods did " stick " a bit more, but as long as I drink copious

amounts of water, they usually go down without a fight, and at my endoscopy

last fall, they told me that everything looked great in my esophagus. So I

definitely wish you an experience as good as mine when it comes to post

surgical recovery with eating.

Like Marie, I still have spasms and they still suck, and like you, the

middle of the night is my body's favorite time to have them. I have found

that carbonation is also my best friend at getting them to stop - I have a

sodastream, and I can easily drink about two liters of seltzer during a

spasm attack if I can't get it to stop. Painkillers don't work well for me,

so that's all I do for it...otherwise, I just have pain until I puke and

then it usually resolves. I am also pregnant for the 2nd time right now and

pregnancy does aggrivate the spasms a bit, as well as giving you more

reflux/aspiration problems when the baby gets bigger, but it is otherwise

very doable. Good luck! This is a great group.

Amber

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:33 PM, marie_dressler <bandreino@...> wrote:

> **

>

>

> Hi Abigail -

>

> I had my HM 20 years ago and still occasionally have spasms. They have

> gradually decreased in frequency over the years. What I learned to do is,

> at the first sign of chest pain, drink something carbonated. My drink of

> choice is Diet Coke but I don't think it matters. I have found that my pain

> is associated with air in my esophagus and to stop the pain from turning

> into retching spasms I need to get that air out of their, i.e. belch.

> Sometimes I have had to chug 2 or 3 cans to get the pain to go away. The

> other thing that can help is Levsin (hyoscyamine) under the tongue.

>

> My spasms gradually shifted from the middle of the night to during my

> morning commute on the subway. There are some advantages to having the

> attack at home!

>

> Good luck,

>

> Bea Soila

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > My name is Abigail and I am a 26 year old who was diagnosed with

> Achalasia last year in April.

> > My symptoms started in Nov - Dec 2010 when noticed occasional difficulty

> swallowing. I tried chewing more, but it did not seem to help. Then, I

> started getting frequent heartburn. I went to see a GI who said these

> symptoms could be a number of things and recommended a endoscopy. The

> endoscopy was normal and he stretched the LES slightly which he told me

> shold help with the difficulty swallowing; it did not.

> > He then recommended that I have a esophogeal manometry (the worst test

> EVER!), which showed that the peristalsis was gone, all the muscles were

> moving at the same time. It also showed that my LES was very constricted.

> At this point my GI knew I had Achalasia but wanted to do a barium swallow

> to confirm. He also ordered a blood test for Chagas disease since I have

> been to central america 5 times in the past 7 years. The barium swallow

> showed a delayed release of the solution and confirmed the diagnosis.

> > Throughout the months of all of the doctor appointments and tests and

> things, I developed a scary new symptom. I would wake up in the middle of

> the night coughing up stomach fluid and/or food that had not emptied into

> my stomach. This sounds gross, but sometimes the food would come up through

> my nose. I had to buy a special pillow and sleep upright. My eating also

> got worse and I could only take a couple of bites of each meal. I would be

> on my second bite, and my fiance would be finishing his meal. Drinking

> liquids was just as bad. My weight dropped dramatically.

> > I weighed all of my options for treatment and decided to go with the HM

> with Dor fundoplication (in Aug). It was done with the Da Vinci robot,

> which is a very advanced surgical machine that helps the surgeons to make

> very precise incisions and gives them more control. I ended up having to

> stay in the hospital for 3 nights rather than the standard 1 due to post

> operative swelling.Has anyone else had the HM with DF? If so, how long ago

> and how are you faring?

> > Since the surgery I am back up to my normal weight, I can sleep laying

> down, I rarely have heartburn, and eating is much better. However, some

> foods are more difficult to eat than others. I also occasionally get the

> spasms and they usually (and very inconveniently) happen in the middle of

> the night. I was taking amitriptyline for this but it did not help too

> much. What do you guys do when you have these spasms?

> > Anyway, I am glad I found a board for Achalasia sufferers. I look

> forward to getting to know you all.

> >

>

>

>