Re: Bugwig says no whey. Duncan Crow says Budwig was WHEY off!

[Guest guest]

Jim,

I'm interested, too. I really enjoyed eating the Budwig mixture, but

had a terrible time with the dairy. I'd like to use whey, but I just

feel I don't know enough about it.

ar

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 05:33:52 -0000, " jrrjim " <jim.mcelroy10@...>

said:

> Again, I'm dead serious about finding out the truth, lest I become

> dead. Let's figure it out, without any religious fervor or cultish

> views on one side of the fence or the other.

--

Arlyn Grant

arlynsg@...

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jim for taking a stand. I love this website. I just love people taking a

stand and speaking out. It is only going to help like THOUSANDS of people like

me.

 

Boy, I would go with the Whey. I almost bought some, but another KNOW-IT-ALL Dr.

Cousens says that ALL DAIRY, including raw has all these micro-organisms

growing it and is toxic stuff. So, I got scared off. Just remember that these

alternative docs have an investment in their agendas and they push them. I could

list ten doctors here with varying agendas which conflct with one another.

 

WE CANCER FOLKS ARE THE EXPERTS. IT IS OUR BODIES THAT THESE DOCS GET THEIR

INFORMATION FROM AND NO WHERE ELSE.

 

I SAY GO WITH THE WHEY AS LONG AS IT IS HORMONE FrEE. I personally spoke to Uri

Hofmekler, author of the anti-estrogenic diet (www.defensenutrition.com) and he

has a powerful anti-estrogenic whey protein powder mix with anti-estrogenic

herbs mixed in. If I was doing dairy this is the way I would go. You can call

him and he will talk to you. Get his number off the website. He is very

accessible.

 

Love,

 

From: jrrjim <jim.mcelroy10@...>

Subject: [ ] Bugwig says no whey. Duncan Crow says Budwig was WHEY

off!

Date: Saturday, December 13, 2008, 9:33 PM

I just perused the Budwig site for the first time in a month or so,

due to some posts here. I was really surprised to see multiple posts

really slamming whey powder. One post even called whey " highly

toxic " .

Wow. And what is the reason? Most common reason was " Dr. Budwig

didn't say to use it " . But this is the same reason given for

anything regarding Budwig -- either Budwig says to do it, or she

doesn't say to do it. No further explanation is given, usually.

The relatively famous little article on this board about Duncan Crow

recommending whey cites that whey is much higher in the sulphur

containing amino acids than cottage cheese. (There were a few

erroneous posts on the Budwig site claiming the opposite). Crow also

says that whey is missing all the negative stuff in cottage cheese --

the casein, as I posted earlier.

A discussion of this nature cannot occur on the Budwig board due to

censorship, so I would like for it to occur here. Let's get this out

in the open and really hash out what is going on with whey. Is it

good, bad, or indifferent?

Again, I'm dead serious about finding out the truth, lest I become

dead. Let's figure it out, without any religious fervor or cultish

views on one side of the fence or the other.

[Guest guest]

" jrrjim " <jim.mcelroy> wrote:

> I just perused the Budwig site for the first time in a month or so,

> due to some posts here. I was really surprised to see multiple

posts really slamming whey powder. One post even called whey " highly

> toxic " . Wow. Most common reason was " Dr. Budwig didn't say to use

it " . But this is the same reason given for anything regarding

Budwig -- either Budwig says to do it, or she doesn't say to do it.

No further explanation is given...

>

Hi Jim,

This topic came up in FlaxseedOil2 after one member wrote that he

began adding supplemental whey protein powder to his daily foods and

his tumor started to grow again.

Flaxseed2 members offered a variety of opinions about both freshly

made whey and supplemental whey protein powder.

Members didn't simply write, " Budwig didn't say to use it, " as you

wrote above. Instead, several reasons were given for not using whey

protein powder. In fact, a variety of specific reasons are given in

most answers on the site, many with linked websites containing

further explanations & studies or the science offered by Dr. Budwig

in her books and articles.

Below are a few of the messages on this topic:

One member, , wrote that he uses whey powder without a problem:

His message was not censored as your accusation implies that it might

be. He said,

" Whey consumption is controversial but for body builders it is highly

valued for its lean muscle building properties. Whey powder and

tablets are expensive. I have used it for a long time without adverse

effects. "

Another member, cgravestock, wrote about whey protein powder:

Yes! The simplest way to find out is to stop it for a few days.

There are many people who won't touch whey protein because they

believe it can be very toxic.

Joe wrote:

There are many problems with whey powder. If the milk source isn't

provably organic, the whey can contain bovine growth hormone, and whey

also contains insulin growth factor, meaning anything that is a growth

promoter is not a good idea for people with cancer.

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/content/abstract/154/1/45

I posted a message with an explanation by the previous FlaxseedOil2

owner and Budwig scholar, Wilhelm, who wrote:

" Yes, whey helps to raise the glutathione level as does Quark and CC,

and any cystine, cysteine and even methionine foods. Be sure not to

overdo it with supplements because it can also raise the homocysteine

level which is not desirable.

" I don't know what you gain by using a whey supplement. There are

many brands and qualities of whey powder available. One thing that I

don't like about whey powders is that you don't know the origin of

the milk from which they were made.

" As I understand it, whey powders come from almost any place. At

least with milk, CC, etc. you either know where these products come

from or you have a fair idea from what area they are coming and what

the farming practices are in those places are. "

" Sulphurated proteins (SPs) are the sulphur containing proteins

cystine, cystein and methionine. Many foods contain them but only in

very small amounts. Dairy products are high in SPs, especially quark

and cottage cheese because the whey has been removed, leaving mainly

the milk solids where the proteins are. "

----

Those are some of the comments in FlaxseedOil2 about whey and whey

protein powder.

You wrote, " A discussion of this nature cannot occur on the Budwig

board due to censorship, so I would like for it to occur here. "

Jim, a discussion DID occur on the Budwig FlaxseedOil2 board on this

topic and there was no censorship.

The group is moderated as is this one and most others. When the rules

for posting a message aren't followed, then it's possible that the

message won't go onto the board.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Uri Hofmekler, author of the anti-estrogenic diet (www.defensenutriti on.com)

has a powerful anti-estrogenic whey protein powder mix with anti-estrogenic

herbs mixed in.

 

Uri vouches for his whey protein to be hormone free. It is not organic, but it

is raised hormone-free in New Zealand. He does add the anti-estrogenic herbs for

use for both men and women as he believes that estrogens are behind many of

these cancers.

 

He swears by his whey protein powders.

 

[Guest guest]

> > I just perused the Budwig site for the first time in a month or

so,

> > due to some posts here. I was really surprised to see multiple

> posts really slamming whey powder. One post even called

whey " highly

> > toxic " . Wow. Most common reason was " Dr. Budwig didn't say to use

> it " . But this is the same reason given for anything regarding

> Budwig -- either Budwig says to do it, or she doesn't say to do

it.

> No further explanation is given...

> >

>

> Hi Jim,

>

> This topic came up in FlaxseedOil2 after one member wrote that he

> began adding supplemental whey protein powder to his daily foods

and

> his tumor started to grow again.

>

> Flaxseed2 members offered a variety of opinions about both freshly

> made whey and supplemental whey protein powder.

>

> Members didn't simply write, " Budwig didn't say to use it, " as you

> wrote above. Instead, several reasons were given for not using whey

> protein powder. In fact, a variety of specific reasons are given in

> most answers on the site, many with linked websites containing

> further explanations & studies or the science offered by Dr. Budwig

> in her books and articles.

, I should have specified that I performed a search on " whey "

in the flaxseed newsgroup, and didn't simply follow the one thread

you are pointing out here. In reviewing several of the 700+ posts on

whey, I did see SEVERAL responses that were along the lines of " Dr.

Budwig didn't use whey -- she did her thing for 50 years and

certainly she would have included whey if she thought it was good...

she wanted an all-natural approach and whey isn't all natural... etc,

etc, etc... that sort of thing. , these are the same responses

always given when people propose even the most minute change to the

Budwig protocol.

Regarding the censorship -- it happened to me a LOT when I tried to

post there, so I just flat out gave up trying to post there. And the

censorship happened on really innocuous little posts. I remember

trying to post once that ground flaxseeds tasted yucky, and that was

censored!!!

I for one do not believe that Dr. Budwig had the perfect, one size

fits all cancer cure. I almost got a PhD before my cancer took me

out, and to be honest, I am shocked at the shoddy work by Budwig in

terms of her scientific method and records keeping. (Now don't tell

me that wouldn't have been censored on the Budwig board). Where are

the copious notes she should have kept on the thousands of patients

she attended to?

Each person is different. No supplements you say? Well, I have an

illeostomy and all food goes through me in about 10 hours. When I

have stopped supplements, I get weak in a hurry. Really weak and

depressed. The damned thing COULD be reversed, except for insurance

snafus and issues. But for the time being at least, I'm taking my

supplements.

You say antioxidants are bad. Budwig says antioxidants are bad. Yet

Budwig proposes several foods and spices loaded with antioxidants.

What's the deal? One of the most brilliant members on this forum

painted a clear picture of how the omega 3's affect cell walls, and

which antioxidants would interfere with flaxseed oils and which

wouldn't. Guess what? Apparently most antioxidants won't interfere

with flaxseed oil, at least according to this absolutely brilliant

member who really knows his chemistry.

The bottom line for me is that I want to find the truth. My life

depends on it. I have absolutely no interest in disrupting the

Budwig forum, and that is why I don't go over there and raise these

issues. However I do feel that they can be raised here. My

experience was that there was a lack of openness and frank discussion

on the Budwig forum. I need to find the truth!

I have no way of knowing what my cancer is doing. Tumor markers

didn't work on my cancer. I have no tumors I can feel to tell if

they are growing or shrinking. All I know is that a PET scan 6

months ago showed 30 or 40 or 50 lymph nodes glowing with cancer, and

the doctor said I was a goner in short order, no matter what I

did. If I had one rectal tumor I could feel, then maybe I could

experiment with Budwig, or whey, or LDN or a combination of the

three. As it is, I need to take my best shot using my intellect. If

I screw up, then those 30 or 40 or 50 tumors may all start growing

all at once in a bad bad bad way, and I will be a goner in very short

order, as he predicted.

[Guest guest]

Good for you Jim. I applaud your search for the truth and your courage in

battling this terrifying thing called cancer.

 

You know, I announced in the chemo room some weeks back to the nurses at my

hospital that I had 90 days to cure myself. I also took a flyer off the bulletin

board and staged a little protest. See, I had called the number on the flyer a

month before, but the flyer failed to mention that once they screen you and they

discover that you are a " Stage IV, " you are not qualified to participate in

their little yoga and stress reduction study. Instead of the nurses empowering

me, they treated me like I was whacked. Before I knew it they had railroaded me

over to the cancer support group where 75% of the people are compliantly going

along with their diagnoses. I am now boycotting the support group and now take a

private yoga class during that time.

 

My support group is this group. And I empower you Jim to speak the TRUTH. I want

the truth as well. When my daughter was 16 years of age and I was told I had 6

months to live, all I wanted to do was to see her graduate from high school. She

is now an honor student in college and is getting a double degree. She just got

all A's on her exams.

 

I haven't made a lot of friends at times because I pushed the envelope. I was

beyond pushy. I demanded answers and sometimes got them. Often, I got more

questions then answers.

We are not going to know exactly what is going to work on our individual

cancers, but we have a good shot at this thing if we keep at it.

 

I apologize to you for blowing you off when I first came on board this website.

I was skeptical of people wanting to sell me supplements. I have now found this

site does not promote salesmen, it promotes genuine individuals who are

desperately and courageously trying to save their lives and perhaps the lives of

their loved ones.

 

If you are ever in Portland, Oregon, I would love to show you my one-woman

healing clinic (I am the only patient at this time! Ha! Ha!). And if I kick this

thing, I will open it to the public. Right now, I am in the same boat as you.

 

Please keep demanding answers and the TRUTH. Get to the bottom of things. Keep

pushing. And if people don't like it, well then that's their problem.

 

I find that when people stonewall they often dont' know the answers. Their

defensiveness comes from a lack of research and scientific training.

 

I was trained as an R.N. (though I decided against finishing my degree) and have

a strong background in science. I love science and I too have to know the

chemical workings of things. It has to be PROVEN to me.

 

Sincerely,

 

Dorr

 

 

[Guest guest]

>

> The bottom line for me is that I want to find the truth. My life

> depends on it. I have absolutely no interest in disrupting the

> Budwig forum, and that is why I don't go over there and raise these

> issues. However I do feel that they can be raised here. My

> experience was that there was a lack of openness and frank discussion

> on the Budwig forum. I need to find the truth!

>

> I have no way of knowing what my cancer is doing. Tumor markers

> didn't work on my cancer. I have no tumors I can feel to tell if

> they are growing or shrinking. All I know is that a PET scan 6

> months ago showed 30 or 40 or 50 lymph nodes glowing with cancer, and

> the doctor said I was a goner in short order, no matter what I

> did. If I had one rectal tumor I could feel, then maybe I could

> experiment with Budwig, or whey, or LDN or a combination of the

> three. As it is, I need to take my best shot using my intellect. If

> I screw up, then those 30 or 40 or 50 tumors may all start growing

> all at once in a bad bad bad way, and I will be a goner in very short

> order, as he predicted.

Here, here Jim! I lift my morning decaf (as long as I consume it with organic

heavy whipping cream as per my metabolic type) in a toast to you! I found a

distinct lack of openness there as well ... as did many others who left the

group due to censorship. It

sounds like you and I are in similar predicaments ... though where your 30-50

cancerous things were in nodes ... my dx was peritoneal carcinomatosis and now

the same thing is appearing in my bones. So, I have the absolute same prognosis

and concerns that you do

.... it's tiny now ... doesn't really light up on scans ... but could all grow at

the same time and blammo.

I personally went to see Gammill and am now following his protocol as

well as the metabolic typing diet, correcting food allergies and gut damage, and

balancing my hormones.

It's quite the tightrope we walk, isn't it? Each of us is here flying without a

safety net, so to speak. One misstep and we're falling into thin air ... at

least we have each other!

xoo

[Guest guest]

Jim, as a nutritional consultant, I've seen that just about every diet

on the planet can work but none of them work as effectively if you

start mixing and matching them (and not all are healthy by a long shot!).

The very first cancer book I ever read was the Breuss Cancer Cure.

It's a six week fast and no protein or sugar is consumed. If even one

cheat takes place, the diet will not work. The common recurring theme

amongst the therapies is always, no animal products, except for Budwig

of course which works in a different manner. Gerson used to use liver

which is now so polluted from the environment that they pulled it from

the therapy.

In the documentary Healing Cancer from the Inside Out there are loads

and loads of studies and quotes mentioned to prove the no meat/dairy

viewpoint and the producer basically says at the end that dairy and

meat act as fertilizer for cancer while environmental toxins are the

seed. Therefore removing the toxins has to be the number one priority.

In the film he also shows how statistics are manipulated and doing

NOTHING results in pretty much the same or sometimes better outcome

than chemo.

I'm not 100% vegan myself but if I ever got cancer I would not touch

meat or dairy and I would immediately switch to a 100% raw vegan

organic diet of smoothies and juices. Cousens is right on

this one. Dairy is not a clean product. It actually contains highly

addictive substances. You never see a calf rejecting milk do you?

One thing I really like about Cousens is that he is rabid

about testing. He doesn't experiment without testing everything. The

guy has a very sharp mind and good intentions and very few people can

drop down and to a few hundred push-ups without skipping a beat. Raw

vegan works for health and he's living proof.

I would suggest reading the Bruess Cancer Cure. I'm not suggesting

that you do the diet but just read it for the information about

protein. This is a pretty old diet and these days people are way more

toxic so there's a danger of overloading the body with toxins since

fat loss will occur. This is not a do-it-yourself job, but needs to

be done in a supervised environment.

Personally I wouldn't use whey in the later stages of cancer but

combined with a raw vegan diet in the early stages of cancer, it could

be very effective to clean up the body and help the liver to not get

over-burdened.

Just my two cents!

Sharon

>

> I just perused the Budwig site for the first time in a month or so,

> due to some posts here. I was really surprised to see multiple posts

> really slamming whey powder. One post even called whey " highly

> toxic " .

>

> Wow. And what is the reason? Most common reason was " Dr. Budwig

> didn't say to use it " . But this is the same reason given for

> anything regarding Budwig -- either Budwig says to do it, or she

> doesn't say to do it. No further explanation is given, usually.

>

> The relatively famous little article on this board about Duncan Crow

> recommending whey cites that whey is much higher in the sulphur

> containing amino acids than cottage cheese. (There were a few

> erroneous posts on the Budwig site claiming the opposite). Crow also

> says that whey is missing all the negative stuff in cottage cheese --

> the casein, as I posted earlier.

>

> A discussion of this nature cannot occur on the Budwig board due to

> censorship, so I would like for it to occur here. Let's get this out

> in the open and really hash out what is going on with whey. Is it

> good, bad, or indifferent?

>

> Again, I'm dead serious about finding out the truth, lest I become

> dead. Let's figure it out, without any religious fervor or cultish

> views on one side of the fence or the other.

>

[Guest guest]

AR,

Why don't you check out this link and then consult with Duncan regarding any

questions you may have. If you're having problems with the cottage cheese, this

might just be the answer.

http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/Budwig-diet-revision.html

Hugs,

Rose

From: arlynsg

Jim,I'm interested, too. I really enjoyed eating the Budwig mixture, buthad a

terrible time with the dairy. I'd like to use whey, but I justfeel I don't know

enough about it.

[Guest guest]

I sent Duncan an email once and he responded pretty quickly. I think

he has a naturopathic practice in British Columbia, Canada. My specific

question to him dealt with his opinion on antioxidants and the Budwig

protocol. He did not answer that directly (I don't think he had an

answer) but rather told me a bit about his protocol, which involves his

modified Budwig approach, oxygenation, and cesium chloride.

As I didn't really have the money to pursue this, I didn't follow up on

the correspondence.

>

> AR,

> Why don't you check out this link and then consult with Duncan

regarding any questions you may have. If you're having problems with

the cottage cheese, this might just be the answer.

> http://members.shaw.ca/duncancrow/Budwig-diet-revision.html

>

> Hugs,

> Rose

>