immune system

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/14/99 5:05:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

maryt@... writes:

<< ide of their " prestigous univerisities " (and I worked at one of those,

hug!!!!!). If it weren't for those " herbs/supplements " I would still be

suffering like the majority of lyme victims out there. Call me the nut,

crazy, what-have-you, but I guess I get the last laugh. Maybe this is all

about money and surely if they did promote those nasty li >>

Please share with us and tell us what herbs/ supp or making you better. I'm

willing to try anything esp something natural like herbs.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Tick-Borne Illness Now in Humans

..c The Associated Press

By BRIGITTE GREENBERG

Researchers have for the first time detected in humans a certain tick-borne

bacterial infection that was thought to sicken only dogs.

The study gives no evidence to suggest that man's best friend is spreading

the potentially deadly disease to people directly, through a bite or a lick.

Instead, the researchers said ticks are biting both humans and dogs, and may

be jumping from dog to master in some cases.

The doctors found four human cases of the infection, all in Missouri, between

1996 and 1998, and four more cases during this tick season in Missouri,

Tennessee and Oklahoma.

The study, published in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine, examined

a little-known, yet emerging disease called ehrlichiosis, which is similar to

Lyme disease. Both diseases are transmitted by ticks and exist primarily in

New England and the upper Midwest.

Two forms of ehrlichiosis have previously been documented in people since

1986, when the disease was first found in the United States. Since then,

approximately 1,200 cases have been reported, according to the Centers for

Disease Control and Prevention.

But this was the first time researchers found cases of the type of

ehrlichiosis that previously had been identified only in dogs.

No matter which form of bacteria causes the infection, an antibiotic can

essentially cure it, both in humans and dogs. In the study, all four patients

from 1996-98 were treated successfully.

Ehrlichiosis and Lyme disease have some symptoms in common - headache,

nausea, chills, fever, malaise and fatigue - but typically, ehrlichiosis

doesn't usually come with a rash and can be fatal if left untreated. Up to 5

percent of cases result in death.

``This is a much more acute and rapidly progressing disease that can be much

more serious because it can be fatal in the most severe cases,'' said study

co-author Dr. A. Storch of the St. Louis Children's Hospital. ``Lyme

disease is not fatal. It can become chronic and can produce some significant

and annoying manifestations.''

Dr. Paddock of the CDC stressed that ehrlichiosis can be

prevented.

``Be aware that if you're out in areas where there are ticks, and this can be

hunting, hiking, fishing, camping, you should always check yourself and

remove any crawling or attached ticks as quickly as possible,'' he said.

AP-NY-07-14-99 1700EDT

[Guest guest]

hi mary,

love your post! thanks for sharing iy.

would you share what supplements you are taking/dosage?

i would really appreciate it as we are doing a lot of supplemental nutrients.

peace,

kay

>>>!!!!!). If it weren't for those " herbs/supplements " I would still be

suffering like the majority of lyme victims out there.<<<

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Good food for thought, I am such a cynic that I have no faith in the medical

profession, or the vitamin promoters.....I guess my skepticism is mostly due to

my own ignorance of both fields....I don't believe Dr Edell's every word, but I

do like listening to him on the radio, he is a scientist and a physician, and

these guys have to have everything proven to them scientifically. I wish I

wasn't such a skeptic, it may be the death of me yet, but I just can't believe

all the vitamin pushing I see on the net, in ads, magazines, etc. Every drug is

a miracle drug....I guess the only way to truly determine what really works is

to actually try them, one by one....I would never call you a nut, crazy or what

have you, and I pray you do get the last laugh. I agree with you that the

bottom line is money, I really believe that there is so little research into

certain diseases because the pharmaceutical companies would lose revenue if

these diseases could be cured.

I also think that the herbal/supplement/vitamin sellers have their pocket books

in mind too. Sad state of affairs, but this is my opinion only, and I respect

each and every person on this list and their right to have their beliefs.

Hugs,

Marta

-

I'm better known as one of those lurkers on this site, but when I read

things like what Dr. Dean Edell has to say about the immune system and " those

herb/supplements " it's really hard to control my temper (and it's not from lyme

either). It ceases to amaze me the ignorance of our medical society and the

lack of want to educate themselves,or at least have an open mind, outside of

their " prestigous univerisities " (and I worked at one of those, hug!!!!!). If

it weren't for those " herbs/supplements " I would still be suffering like the

majority of lyme victims out there. Call me the nut, crazy, what-have-you, but I

guess I get the last laugh. Maybe this is all about money and surely if they

did promote those nasty little supplements they wouldn't get the kick backs of

big brother (pharmacetical companies) or what is that called " repeat business "

to line ones pockets. As you can tell I'm really fed up with drs and medication.

I have had or seen one too many bad experiences with drs./ medication. The

following says it all.

THE AMERICAN DEATH CEREMONY:

The death ceremony started as a crude ritual back in the days of witchcraft.

In recent years, it has benn developed into a science. It usually takes from

10-15 years. However, modern scientific advancements are shortening this period

of time. It starts with one simple aspirin for a simple headache. When the

aspirin will no longer cover up the headache, take two. After a few months when

two aspirin will no longer cover up the headache, you can take one of the

stronger compounds. By this time it becomes necessary to take something for the

ulcers that have been caused by the aspirin. Now that you are taking two

medicines, you have a good start. After a few months these medications will

disrupt your liver function. If a good infection develops you can take some

penicillin. Of course, the penicillin will damage your red blood corpuscles and

spleen so that you develop anemia. Another medicaiton is then taken to cover up

the anemia. By this time all these medications are putting such a strain on

your kidneys that they should break down. It is now time to take some

antibiotics. When these at last destroy your natural resistance to disease, you

can expect a general flare-up of all your symptoms. The next step is to cover

up all these symptoms with sulfa drugs. When the kidneys finally plug up, you

can have them drained. Some poisons will build up in your system, but you can

keep going quite awhile this way. By now the medicines will be so confused they

won't know what they are supposed to be doing - but it really doesn't matter.

If you have followed everystep as directed, you can now make an appointment with

your undertaker. This game is played by practically all Americans - except for

a few ignorant souls who follow Nature! Wonder what ole Dr. Dean Edell would

say about this?????? Thanks for the time and now I shall go back to

lurking........

P.S. Just to show you what a " nut or crazy " I really am, I took my dog (age

13, 3 hip surgeries at age 6 months, and lyme) to the vet the other day for his

routine shots. The vet was so amazed at how healthy this dog was he started

picking my brain to see what I was doing. Of course when I told him he didn't

believe me. So I guess it's not just people drs........

[Guest guest]

Hi Kay,

Don't mind sharing at all .The following is a list of what I take and why. I

suffered many of the same symptoms that most lyme victims suffer (heart, liver,

thyroid, nerve, severe arthritis, and extreme fatigue). Hope this helps all that

are interested. God bless and have a great day.

Soy Protein - Every living cell in our bodies need protein

Multi Vitamin - Good all round supplement

Vita C - Excellent for immune system

B-complex - Nerve damage

Lecithin - Liver and heart

Formula I - Antioxidants/for immune system

Alfalfa - detoxification and arthritis

Garlic - immune system and heart

Vita E - heart

Beta Carotene - immune system

Zinc - immune system

Calcium/Magnesium - Muscle spasms/twitches

Fiber - detoxification

Optiflora - Friendly bacteria in intestines. Extremely important because of the

amount of antibiotics consumed in the average

American diet. 1/3 of all antibiotics manufactured in the States is

used on animals to keep them healthy and disease

free. We in turn consume those when we eat the meat/eggs. Most

people don't know this.

I drink alot of water (4-5 glasses daily) to keep me hydrated which in turn

helps with detoxifying as well as fatigue. I also limit my sugar and caffeine

intake. This is the quickest way to set myself back with fatigue and achy

joints.

As far as my dog goes he consumes the same brand supplement as I do. He takes:

Protein - 1 tsp. in the morning

Multi vitamin - 1 in the morning

2 Cal-mag - in the morning and in the evening

2 Alfalfa - in the morning and in the evening

1 lecithin - in the evening (This has been proven to extend the lives of

animals, image what it will do for humans?)

I have also put him on a high quality dog food. Name brand Solid Gold.

I will tell you the brand supplement I use is Shaklee. I have yet to find

another supplement company that comes close to this one. Alot will tell you they

are equal or better but when asked about research or product testing most will

not respond or theirs doesn't match up. Also they are the only company

recognized by the government as food. I want to know what I am putting in my

body and feel safe about. They also have a research dept that I can ask

questions to, I know no others that offer this. This is not a sales pitch for

this supplement. It is simply the brand I chose for my reasons. Also I want to

add, because many people ask, I have not been on an antibiotic since 1994. The

only antibiotics I took were doxy.

[Guest guest]

Hi Marta,

First off I want to thank all for no attacks. I truly commend this board as so

many have become very vicious and chase many away. I want to say one final thing

before I go back to " lurking " . I have to agree with you Marta about the

vitamin/herb/supplement companies and their hands in the pocket as well. I will

be the first to caution anyone taking supplements to find out what they are

consuming. There are no miracle cures unless they come from above. All companies

are equal as far as making money and we all know how fed up with drs we have

become. 10 yrs ago there was very little about supplements and now even

pharmaceutical co. have jumped on the band wagon because there is a need for it.

That doesn't always mean their effective or safe. I also know that many people

who suffer from disease want to feel better and usually reach a breaking point

of trying anything. I caution all to make sure of what they are taking. There

are enough sites on the web for info as well as the local library and

bookstores. There is even a FDA website for complaints filed on certain

companies. We all need to educate ourselves instead of trusting others. I offer

a few suggestions/questions to ask. Ask if the company does their own clinical

research, if so what kind and where is it done. Ask for ingredient testing. Ask

what kind of research dept they have. Are their products tested for

bioavailability? You get the idea. It is your body and the last thing any of us

what to do is complicate matters. Well enough said have a great day.

[Guest guest]

I think you can rely on both Shaklee and Pharmanex. they have quite a

background

[Guest guest]

dear mary,

thank you very much for the list of supplements. there are a few there we have

not tried and i plan to add them.

one we have had great results with for allergy/sinus symptoms is MSM 1000mg. 2

times a day.

peace and health,

kay

>>>

Hi Kay,

Don't mind sharing at all .The following is a list of what I take and why. I

suffered many of the same symptoms that most lyme victims suffer (heart, liver,

thyroid, nerve, severe arthritis, and extreme fatigue). Hope this helps all that

are interested. God bless and have a great day.

<<<

[Guest guest]

hey phil..u mentione ur immune system was hurting recently and u suffered

bronchitis for 3 months...is that cuz u screwed around with your E2 meds? i

thought ur T has been up in the 900s or higher for a while now...if that's the

case why did ur immune system give? not cuz ur T levels were low right?

---------------------------------

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

I have low T and a low immune system because I worked with chemicals

when I was a toolmaker trying to develop a plastic to use to stamp out steel

panels in a Die. I never put my bare hands in any of the plastic like my

co-workers did. Now some 25 yrs later I am the only one left alive. I have a

low immune system and low T for over 22 yrs because of the chemicals.

Phil

Jack <rockin813@...> wrote:

hey phil..u mentione ur immune system was hurting recently and u suffered

bronchitis for 3 months...is that cuz u screwed around with your E2 meds? i

thought ur T has been up in the 900s or higher for a while now...if that's the

case why did ur immune system give? not cuz ur T levels were low right?

---------------------------------

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

(My comments are inserted within quoted portions of the message I'm

replying to.)

An Immune system which is over OR

> under is not healthy enough to fight off oxidative stress which

causes free

> radical damage which is the reason for degenerative disease to

occur.

....

My greatest concern regarding

> the tremendous use of NSAIDS by arthritis patients is the fact that

these

> drugs merely provide pain relief without attacking the underlying

cause of

> the disease - - oxidative stress. If a patient has a chronic

degenerative

> disease, they obviously have more oxidative stress than the

individual who

> is healthy.

>

(From sherryz) The above 2 statements don't seem to logically

connect, in my opinion. You seem to be saying in the first that my

over-active immune system can't fight off oxidative stress. But in

the second, you say that the oxidative stress is what causes the

immune system dysfunction. This sounds like circular reasoning to me.

Besides the logical disconnect, I have never seen any documented (in

controlled studies) evidence that oxidative stress " causes "

autoimmune diseases. If such controlled studies exist, please direct

me to them.

>

> Research has shown several connections between food, nutritional

supplements

> (vitamins, minerals and omega-3 fatty acids) and certain forms of

arthritis

> or related conditions.

(From sherryz) I am not aware of any controlled studies showing

direct connections between food, nutritional supplements (or lack

thereof) and any of the inflammatory forms of arthritis - RA, PA,

reactive arthritis, etc. If such controlled studies exist, please

advise and provide the source.

>

> I am happy to supply anyone with researched scientific material to

back up

> my theories.

I'm very interested to know what peer-reviewed research supports the

idea that psoriatic arthritis is caused by oxidative stress, or that

any food or nutritional supplement has been proven to have a causal

relationship to RA or PS. Thanks.

I certainly agree that proper nutrition, exercise, rest, and stress

reduction contributes to overall good health. But great care should

be taken in making claims that " oxidative stress " causes PA.

best regards,

sherry z

[Editor's Note: Amen, Sherry. As far as I know (and I read a great deal on

the subject), the cause of PA is not known, although there seems to be a genetic

component as autoimmune diseases tend to run in families, including families

living apart which erases the common diet theory. In fact, a genetic marker has

been found for people with the ankylosing spondylitis form of PA (the HLA B27

gene). Like you, I am also unaware of any study linking food with inflammatory

forms of arthritis. There ARE people with things such as celiac disease, who

exhibit arthritis-like symptoms. When they eliminate gluten from their diets,

their inflammation often disappears. This does NOT mean that they had an

autoimmune disease - it means they had an allergy that caused swelling and when

they eliminate the food causing the allergy, they eliminate the symptoms that

are similar to those found in people with autoimmune diseases. Ergo, there is a

similarity of symptoms - but not of the cause of those symptoms.

Great care must be taken, as you so rightly point out, to not mislead people on

this site by making statements that have not been substantiated by rigorous,

controlled scientific testing. Absolutely, people should keep their weight

under control, eat nutritious meals, exercise and keep stress under control in

order to improve their health. However, even people who do all that sometimes

have autoimmune diseases because they are genetically disposed to them. The

ONLY things scientifically demonstrated to help stem the progression of PA in

some people are DMARDS and biologics. Weeds, berries and other things off which

a lot of loosy-goosy people make a ton of money by making outrageous claims,

have NOT been demonstrated to cure or stem the progress of the disease. They

MAY, however, improve one's general health, and IF a person is allergic, the

elimination of the cause of the allergy will, of course, eliminate the symptoms

caused by that allergy. That is a far cry from in any way curing autoimmune

disease. Right on, Sherry! Kathy F.]

[Guest guest]

I've always been confused about vitamin intake. I take a daily

multivitamin and some Omega-3, Flax Oil, Folic Acid, Iron, Calcium and

periodically some others, but would love to have more information on

proper dosages. My multivitamin is a women's specific from the health

food store, but I have no idea what the otimum dosages would be. How

does one find this information and pull it all together for the right

dosage and combination of vitamins and minerals.

Would much appreciate any advice on this subject.

Thanks,

Haleila

[Editor's Note: Haleila, this varies greatly depending on factors such as age,

gender, weight, physical condition, diet, your body's ability to process intake

efficiently, etc. I think the best thing for you to do would be to ask your

doctor and/or consult with a nutritionist recommended by your doctor who is

familiar with the fact that those of us with autoimmune disorders are NOT

looking to boost our immune systems. Kathy F.]

> p.s Kathy re your postscript - (people can do a great deal of damage by

> taking immune system boosters) - Taking too much of one vitamin can

prevent

> the absorption of another. A dose of an isolated vitamin or mineral

that is

> too high can produce the same symptoms as a deficiency of another

nutrient.

> (Most people who take vitamin and mineral supplements self-prescribe

> according to what they think they should take, and even what is

fashionable.

> As well as being a waste of money, this is likely to do more harm than

> good.)M

>

>

>

> IF YOU KEEP DOING WHAT YOU'VE ALWAYS DONE, YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU'VE

ALWAYS

> GOTTEN

>

>

>

> Maraika Mason

>

> Degenerative Disease Resourced Information

>

> Clin.Nutrition

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

nsaids ARE anti-inflamatories. not pain killers. nsaids will reduce

inflamation. pain killers work on parts of the brain that control pain. if im

wrong please let me know.

casey

" S. Zorzi " <szorzi_1999@...> wrote:

(My comments are inserted within quoted portions of the message I'm

replying to.)

An Immune system which is over OR

> under is not healthy enough to fight off oxidative stress which

causes free

> radical damage which is the reason for degenerative disease to

occur.

....

My greatest concern regarding

> the tremendous use of NSAIDS by arthritis patients is the fact that

these

> drugs merely provide pain relief without attacking the underlying

cause of

> the disease - - oxidative stress. If a patient has a chronic

degenerative

> disease, they obviously have more oxidative stress than the

individual who

> is healthy.

>

(From sherryz) The above 2 statements don't seem to logically

connect, in my opinion. You seem to be saying in the first that my

over-active immune system can't fight off oxidative stress. But in

the second, you say that the oxidative stress is what causes the

immune system dysfunction. This sounds like circular reasoning to me.

Besides the logical disconnect, I have never seen any documented (in

controlled studies) evidence that oxidative stress " causes "

autoimmune diseases. If such controlled studies exist, please direct

me to them.

>

> Research has shown several connections between food, nutritional

supplements

> (vitamins, minerals and omega-3 fatty acids) and certain forms of

arthritis

> or related conditions.

(From sherryz) I am not aware of any controlled studies showing

direct connections between food, nutritional supplements (or lack

thereof) and any of the inflammatory forms of arthritis - RA, PA,

reactive arthritis, etc. If such controlled studies exist, please

advise and provide the source.

>

> I am happy to supply anyone with researched scientific material to

back up

> my theories.

I'm very interested to know what peer-reviewed research supports the

idea that psoriatic arthritis is caused by oxidative stress, or that

any food or nutritional supplement has been proven to have a causal

relationship to RA or PS. Thanks.

I certainly agree that proper nutrition, exercise, rest, and stress

reduction contributes to overall good health. But great care should

be taken in making claims that " oxidative stress " causes PA.

best regards,

sherry z

[Editor's Note: Amen, Sherry. As far as I know (and I read a great deal on the

subject), the cause of PA is not known, although there seems to be a genetic

component as autoimmune diseases tend to run in families, including families

living apart which erases the common diet theory. In fact, a genetic marker has

been found for people with the ankylosing spondylitis form of PA (the HLA B27

gene). Like you, I am also unaware of any study linking food with inflammatory

forms of arthritis. There ARE people with things such as celiac disease, who

exhibit arthritis-like symptoms. When they eliminate gluten from their diets,

their inflammation often disappears. This does NOT mean that they had an

autoimmune disease - it means they had an allergy that caused swelling and when

they eliminate the food causing the allergy, they eliminate the symptoms that

are similar to those found in people with autoimmune diseases. Ergo, there is a

similarity of symptoms - but not of the cause of

those symptoms.

Great care must be taken, as you so rightly point out, to not mislead people on

this site by making statements that have not been substantiated by rigorous,

controlled scientific testing. Absolutely, people should keep their weight under

control, eat nutritious meals, exercise and keep stress under control in order

to improve their health. However, even people who do all that sometimes have

autoimmune diseases because they are genetically disposed to them. The ONLY

things scientifically demonstrated to help stem the progression of PA in some

people are DMARDS and biologics. Weeds, berries and other things off which a lot

of loosy-goosy people make a ton of money by making outrageous claims, have NOT

been demonstrated to cure or stem the progress of the disease. They MAY,

however, improve one's general health, and IF a person is allergic, the

elimination of the cause of the allergy will, of course, eliminate the symptoms

caused by that allergy. That is a far cry from in any

way curing autoimmune disease. Right on, Sherry! Kathy F.]

---------------------------------

Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast

with the Search weather shortcut.

[Guest guest]

Casey - that is my understanding as well. NSAIDs are anti-

inflammatories. They can help with pain inasmuch as reducing the

inflammation can help reduce pain as well. I was replying to the

person that made that statement urhealth@) - I'm not the one who said

it.

Good point. I should have caught that error as well.

sherry z

>

> An Immune system which is over OR

> > under is not healthy enough to fight off oxidative stress which

> causes free

> > radical damage which is the reason for degenerative disease to

> occur.

>

> ...

>

> My greatest concern regarding

> > the tremendous use of NSAIDS by arthritis patients is the fact

that

> these

> > drugs merely provide pain relief without attacking the underlying

> cause of

> > the disease - - oxidative stress. If a patient has a chronic

> degenerative

> > disease, they obviously have more oxidative stress than the

> individual who

> > is healthy.

[Guest guest]

Do you think taking 2000mg of vitamin C and a high potency muli-vitamin each day

is not good for someone with psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis? I enjoyed your

post about the immune system.

Arthritis <urhealth@...> wrote:

Good morning . I just wanted to reply to a previous post - RE (Our

immune

systems are overly ACTIVE which is one of the reasons why people can do a

great deal of damage by taking immune system boosters without consulting

with their rheumatologists. Our immune systems don't work right - but they

are working aggressively to attack our own bodies.)

You are spot on Kathy. It is an OVER active Immune System that, so far as is

known, has been the culprit in Arthritis. An Immune system which is over OR

under is not healthy enough to fight off oxidative stress which causes free

radical damage which is the reason for degenerative disease to occur. If an

immune system is over active it is not a good healthy immune system. Nor is

it healthy if it is under active causing other diseases like Cancer . .It is

not just whether your Immune System is over active or under active. Either

way it means there is a problem. Nutrients (anti-oxidants, which are in all

our foods too) don't just add to the activity of an immune system causing

damage but they allow it to normalize and become healthy. They neutralize

free radicals which are the culprit in causing disease. It is simply a

matter of balance. You want to have enough antioxidants " on board " to

neutralize the free radicals you produce. If you do, there will be no

oxidative stress. If you don't, damage will occur.

When researchers study joint fluid extracted from an inflamed joint, they

note a significant increase in the number of excessive free radicals. In

contrast, fluid from a normal joint, has no free radicals present. These

different sources of increased free radical production within the inflamed

joint all cause significant oxidative stress resulting in an overload in the

antioxidant defense system of the joint space. My greatest concern regarding

the tremendous use of NSAIDS by arthritis patients is the fact that these

drugs merely provide pain relief without attacking the underlying cause of

the disease - - oxidative stress. If a patient has a chronic degenerative

disease, they obviously have more oxidative stress than the individual who

is healthy.

Many diseases develop because the immune system is over-active, as in

autoimmune diseases (e.g. type I diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple

sclerosis, lupus etc.), or under-active, as in cancer and chronic infectious

diseases (e.g. HIV, Hepatitis, TB, Listeria, etc.). Autoimmune diseases

arise because the immune system is not regulated properly and immune cells

start to destroy healthy cells and tissues, such as cells that make insulin,

leading to type 1 diabetes. Likewise, over-active immune cells contribute

to inflammatory processes that lead to cardiovascular disease over time.

In contrast, diseases like cancer and chronic infections arise, in part,

because the immune system is abnormally suppressed, leading to a state of

specific tolerance, which allows tumors to grow and infections to persist in

people with otherwise effective immune systems. The primary role of the

immune system is to eliminate microbial infections that cause pathogenic

disease. To perform this key function immune cells must recognize and

respond to 'foreign' molecules (antigens) expressed by invading pathogens

leading to the destruction of pathogens and of cells they infect.

A person's immune system, which normally helps protect the body from

infection and disease, attacks joint tissues for unknown reasons. White

blood cells, the agents of the immune system, travel to the synovium and

cause inflammation (synovitis), Normally, the immune process is reserved for

the viruses, bacteria or any other infectious agents that threaten your

health. But if a glitch occurs, the very system designed to protect you can

instead turn against you.

When the immune system doesn't work properly, it cannot tell the difference

between its own cells and foreign cells. Instead of fighting foreign

antigens, the cells of the immune system or the antibodies it produces may

attack your body's own cells by mistake. The resulting inflammation

contributes to cartilage damage and bone erosion.

Research has shown several connections between food, nutritional supplements

(vitamins, minerals and omega-3 fatty acids) and certain forms of arthritis

or related conditions.

Arthritis is one of the most prevalent chronic health problems and the

nation's leading cause of disability among Americans over age 15. In 2006 -

46 million (nearly 1 in 5 adults)

Half of those Americans with arthritis don't think anything can be done to

help them.

I would never advise anyone to change or throw away their medications

without strict medical supervision. Or not to see a Rheumatologist, as they

are experts in their field. Some are more open minded about your input and

if you are not satisfied that they are working WITH you then there are many

other choices.

I always tell my patients that if what they are currently doing for their

condition is working for them and they are happy with it, then don't change

it. If not then do some research and ask questions. Look outside the square.

I am happy to supply anyone with researched scientific material to back up

my theories. Or if anyone would like to discuss these off list please feel

free to do so. Yours in Health, Maraika

p.s Kathy re your postscript - (people can do a great deal of damage by

taking immune system boosters) - Taking too much of one vitamin can prevent

the absorption of another. A dose of an isolated vitamin or mineral that is

too high can produce the same symptoms as a deficiency of another nutrient.

(Most people who take vitamin and mineral supplements self-prescribe

according to what they think they should take, and even what is fashionable.

As well as being a waste of money, this is likely to do more harm than

good.)M

IF YOU KEEP DOING WHAT YOU'VE ALWAYS DONE, YOU WILL GET WHAT YOU'VE ALWAYS

GOTTEN

Maraika Mason

Degenerative Disease Resourced Information

Clin.Nutrition

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/24/2007 5:58:22 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,

szorzi_1999@... writes:

Like you, I am also unaware of any study linking food with inflammatory

forms of arthritis. There ARE people with things such as celiac disease, who

exhibit arthritis-like symptoms. When they eliminate gluten from their diets,

their inflammation often disappears. This does NOT mean that they had an

autoimmune disease - it means they had an allergy that caused swelling and when

they

eliminate the food causing the allergy, they eliminate the symptoms that are

similar to those found in people with autoimmune diseases.

One well written and well researched book on inflammation and diet is called

Inflammation Nation; I can't remember the author's name but he is a

pharmacological PhD. It's not specifically related to autoimmune arthritis,

but to

overall inflammation, and has some good guidelines on how to assess

inflammation fighting properties of different foods. It's by no means

positioned as a

cure, rather as one approach to fighting inflammation.

On a separate note, celiac disease is not an allergy; it is an autoimmune

disease of the small intestine. There are plenty of people who are allergic to

wheat, celiac is different because the villi in the small intestine (which

absorb nutrients) are damaged when gluten products are eaten. It is not

uncommon for people to have multiple autoimmune diseases, and celiac disease is

very under-diagnosed in the US. Part of why celiac is hard to diagnose is that

the symptoms present differently - some people have irritable bowel type

symptoms, others have swelling, some have a rash, some are malnourished, some

lose weight without explanation. You can ask for an antibody test (blood test)

that will give some indication as to your diagnosis (usually gliadin

antibodies); the test to confirm is an endoscopy where they biopsy your small

intestine to look for damage to the villi.

I went through all of this because of elevated gliadin antibodies but had a

negative biopsy...;-)

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Bee

>

> Is it possible to enhance the immune system enough to enable the body

> to switch a large amount of Candida overgrowth back to the positive

> form of yeast?

> Or does the body have to have a reduction in the amount of Candida

> reduced before the process can take place?

==>Hi . You can enhance the immune system alone, without reducing

Candida overgrowth, in order to cure your candida.

Bee

[Guest guest]

Hi DC,

I am new here and have been a lurker for a few weeks now..have you ever been

checked for fibromyalgia..it sounds like you could have that going on with your

body now too.

http://www.fibromyalgia-symptoms.org/

http://www.arthritis.ca/types%20of%20arthritis/fibromyalgia/default.asp?s=1

I surely hope you don't have it but it sounds to me like you surely could

`*`*Kathy*`*`

Avoca PA

A true friend walks in when the rest of the world walks out.

Stars are like friends you may not always see them..but they are always there

[Guest guest]

At 07:32 PM 12/25/07, you wrote:

>Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and a wish for a Pain free 2008!

>

>Does anyone know if years of pain can cause issues with your immune

>system? I had surgery Jan 29th 2007 however I still have pain and now

>have two more herniated disks in my neck taking pain meds, anti

>depression and sleeping pills. I am again trying massage, chrio and

>acutunture to maintain. BTW the injections never really worked for my

>neck pain. I have heard some good results for lower pain pain.

Dear DC. I agree about the possible fibromyalgia. When ever our

system gets really down or a blow like whatever caused the original

neck pain or the operation it can trigger fibro. I've had 3 lower

back and 1 neck surgery. The neck surgery as far as pain relief was a

total failure. I has the surgery December 28th of 2000, so It's now

year 7. I tried everything for relief, P/T injections ( cortisone,

Facet block, etc ) Acupuncture, you name it. Nothing works except

massage, rest with a bone shaped pillow, Meds, a tens unit, and

especially good is ICE Gel packs wrapped in a thin towel. I use them

every night, and sometimes during the day.

I would guess your immune system is low because of sleep depravation.

I would guess most if not all of us on the list are sleep

deprived. Also fighting pain takes a lot of energy, both mental and

physical, again opening the door for illness. Finally my wife is

sick a lot and we feel from some reading that stress is the big

factor for her. And again because of pain, and maybe work, money and

relationship matters that our pain exasperates we are all

stressed. These are just some things to think about and maybe ask

your Doctor. Possibly a vitamin supplement regiment would help. I

was doing good not getting sick by drinking lots of orange juice

until it burned an ulcer in my stomach. I love orange juice.

BTW I'm curious as to the meaning behind your screen name ?

Dave in Reading, PA

[Guest guest]

I don't think your immune system could be involved

unless you have something like rheumatoid arthritis. A

rheumatologist could check that out. Have you tried

physical therapy to strengthen your neck so you can do

a little more without the neck muscles spasming out.

Did you do PT after your surgery? Most surgeons

precribe that for strengthening because being in a

neck brace so long after surgery atrophies the

muscles.

Rochelle

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

[Guest guest]

>

> I think my immune system is shot. Is this a normal thing with

yeast overgrowth? I have been catching everything all winter, and

have been sick for months. Right now I have bronchitis so I'll be

starting antibiotics, which will make the yeast worse. I have been

so sick and so tired for months now. I really wish I could find a

dr. that knew about yeast, but my naturopath has no clue and is no

help at all. I have about 4 specialists, the naturopath, and my GP.

You'd think someone would be able to do something. My naturopath did

a stool tests months ago and said there's no yeast, but I literally

have yeast coming out of my skin. I'm sick all the time, have

Crohn's, eczema, a white tongue, depression, almost all the

symptoms. I haven't been eating right since Christmas because I'm

too sick and tired to cook real food, so I heat things up. I know

that certainly doesn't help. Sorry to sound whiny, I'm just having a

really rough time.

>

==>Hi . Welcome to our group. We all understand how horrible

it is to be so sick. It's very sad your naturopath or doctors can't

help you. Unfortunately we have to take charge of our own health.

It's the only way to ensure we get well.

Your immune system would be shot if you are sick, and that can result

in yeast overgrowth. The only way to get well, cure yeast, etc. is

to build up your immune system with nutrients. That's what my diet

and supplements are all about; healing your body naturally the way

Mother nature intended. That why my recently set-up website is

called Healing Naturally by Bee:

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com. I found that after owning this

Group for almost 4 years that so many members were curing things I

never dreamed of at the beginning. I knew this program cured

candida, but I never knew how trully good it was.

We are here to help you . You, too, can be well! One step at

a time. The first step is to learn what you need to do, so please

read " How to Successfully Overcome Candida " and you'll know:

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/menu2_8.php

Also print out the 2nd article on this list " Curing Candida, How to

Get Started " . Get back to us with any questions.

The best in health, Bee

[Guest guest]

Bonnie, LDN will need time to work, for some it can take weeks or months, and some get an immediate response although the latter only in how they feel generally. That is my experience.....

Celia

[Guest guest]

dr mccandless wrote here or in her group that with beginning of ldn

and the change from T2 to T1 or opposite there can be a period where

the immune system can be weaker.in this period you should help the

body met anti-virus treatment like vit c high doses slowly building

until diharre niveau.

http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v01n12.shtml

or anti fungal like diflucan or antifungal supplement like olive

leaf extract,oregano oil.etc.

the problem with auto-immune sicknesses is that immune system sits

fast or in T1 or inT2 therefore this shift of position of the immune

system is a good sign.

>

> I have a question for you knowledgeable ldn'ers. I started my 23

year old

> daughter who has RA on LDN approx 2 weeks ago. She doesn't

usually get

> sick, however right after she started the ldn she got a cold and

it doesn't

> seem to want to go away. From what I understood , ldn raises the

immune

> system, any idea why this would happen?

>

>

>

> Bonnie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bonnie...Let me first state that I am NOT a doctor or physician of any kind. I'm just a patient. So...now that that is out of the way....Because LDN boosts the immune system, if could be that your daughter is experiencing a mild Herxheimer reaction to he immune system killing bacteria in her body. Whenever the immune system is fighting infection, the dead bacteria release toxins in the body which have to be dealt with by the liver and kidneys. If there is a mass die off of bacteria the amount of toxins can be substantial and can create flu like symptoms, body aches, coughing, nausea, fever, etc....Your daughter may have had a candida yeast overgrowth and her immune system is dealing with it. Make sure she drinks lots of water/fluids.

I have been on LDN for 3 weeks now. After my first week, there was a period of 2 days where I felt as though I had been run over by a mac truck. The body aches I had were identical to what i suffer from when I'm fighting a case of the flu. Lasted for about 2 days and then I felt better.Hope that helps a little.- KenFrom: Bonnie <bonniesherbals@...>low dose naltrexone Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:09:18 AMSubject: [low dose naltrexone] immune system

I have a question for you knowledgeable ldn¢ers. I started my 23

year old daughter who has RA on LDN approx 2 weeks ago. She doesn¢t usually

get sick, however right after she started the ldn she got a cold and it doesn¢t

seem to want to go away. From what I understood , ldn raises the immune

system, any idea why this would happen?

Bonnie

[Guest guest]

Bonnie,

I'm not a doctor either but that never stopped me from quessing.

There is a huge epidemic cold/flu going around the US right now. It is a bad

cold and cough that lasts about 10 days. Maybe increasing vitamin C and D

and eating garlic will help shorten the duration.

a

Hi Bonnie...

Let me first state that I am NOT a doctor or physician of any kind. I'm

just a patient. So...now that that is out of the way....

Because LDN boosts the immune system, if could be that your daughter is

experiencing a mild Herxheimer reaction to he immune system killing bacteria

in her body. Whenever the immune system is fighting infection, the dead

bacteria release toxins in the body which have to be dealt with by the liver

and kidneys. If there is a mass die off of bacteria the amount of toxins

can be substantial and can create flu like symptoms, body aches, coughing,

nausea, fever, etc....

Your daughter may have had a candida yeast overgrowth and her immune system

is dealing with it. Make sure she drinks lots of water/fluids.

I have been on LDN for 3 weeks now. After my first week, there was a period

of 2 days where I felt as though I had been run over by a mac truck. The

body aches I had were identical to what i suffer from when I'm fighting a

case of the flu. Lasted for about 2 days and then I felt better.

Hope that helps a little.

- Ken

I have a question for you knowledgeable ldn?ers. I started my 23 year old

daughter who has RA on LDN approx 2 weeks ago. She doesn?t usually get

sick, however right after she started the ldn she got a cold and it doesn?t

seem to want to go away. From what I understood , ldn raises the immune

system, any idea why this would happen?

Bonnie