Re: What One Reknowned Biochemist Says About External Antioxidants

[Guest guest]

What do you make of the following article? It appears to indicate

clinical benefit from antioxidants.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=24146

<http://www.news-medical.net/?id=24146

Irfan

breathedeepnow wrote:

I promised to share with the group any response I got about the

effects of external antioxidants from the scientist friend I know who

has been studying antioxidants for decades. Here is what he replied,

verbatim:

" I don't have time to go into great detail (very busy here in

Florida) but the main problem with small molecule anti-oxidants is

that 1) they are metabolized very rapidly and thus may not reach a

reasonable concentration in the cells for any extended period of

time,2) they very likely do not get into the mitochondria in

sufficient quantitity where the bulk of the reactive oxygen species

are produced.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Irfan.

As a lay person with no advanced training in biochemistry or

physiology, I cannot venture an opinion as to the veracity or

accuracy of the article. I would certainly like to see the biochemist

I quoted to be proven wrong. I just don't know what to make of

things. Perhaps there was some placebo effect that caused the people

taking antioxidants to have less side-effects.

I will tell you this: Since I cut down on supplements and began

eating a great many more whole vegetables and fruits, I have more

energy, need less sleep, get more things done and feel more

optimistic and in a better frame of mind than when I was eating a so-

so, more hap-hazard diet and taking lots more supplements.

There is so much good stuff happening when one chews up, swallows and

digests a salad of raw spinach leaves that science will never be able

to adequately document/describe it! My current dietary " philosophy "

is eat plenty of raw vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds and oils and

chew well before swallowing! ;+)) So far, so good! I'll be sure to

report any difficulties or negative stuff if it occurs. I eat some

cooked vegetables, too. Had several baked potatoes last night with

olive oil, garlic, sea salt AND a few dabs of BUTTER! :+O

Elliot

" i_alvi " <iaa@...> wrote:

> What do you make of the following article? It appears to indicate

> clinical benefit from antioxidants.

> http://www.news-medical.net/?id=24146

> Irfan

>

[Guest guest]

Elliot:

As far as the article I cited, I have no doubt that it's accurate. They did a

thorough meta-analysis of 19 previous studies selected out of more than 800

based on having to meet several selection criteria. The paper appeared in a

peer-reviewed journal, and one of the authors is Block, MD, a renowned

integrative oncologist.

I'm also convinced that eating proper diet with whole foods is vital. But I

think supplements also help a lot, so I do both, since the two aren't mutually

exclusive. I've also been feeling better since doing

so.

Best,

Irfan

" breathedeepnow " wrote:

Hi, Irfan.

I just don't know what to make of things. Perhaps there was some placebo

effect that caused the people taking antioxidants to have less side-effects.

Eliot

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Irfan!

In my mind, the question of how effective external antioxidants are

is certainly far from simple and far from solved.

I am still taking selenium, green tea, curcumin and bee pollen, all

of which are touted by many for their antioxidant properties. The

scientist I quoted even says he believes green tea may have some

significant effect.

By the way, is there any chance you could send what this biochemist

said about external antioxidants to Dr. Block to see what Dr. Block

thinks about it?

Thanks again,

Elliot

[Guest guest]

Besides having our own 'scientist' on this list, whom we value for input, we

have the unfortunate state whereby a lot of 'professionals', bright as they are,

cannot think beyond the track they are on.

It is as if they are on a train and no matter what, each station comes in order

and unless one gets off the track..............they keep coming to the same

station.

Last summer I was speaking with a long-time friend that was a school chum of my

son. He became the Top Gun nationally, for one of the leading drug-store

chains. When I asked about Vitamin sales he quipped that they were

insignificant compared to overall sales and that he, " could not forget what he

learned in college many years before.......... " vitamins make expensive pee " .

He is an accredited pharmacist and is on the same train as he was in college and

will not get off the track leading to the town of Big Pharma. It is no

different with physicians and even those in the Alternative fields. There are

still Chiropractors that believe that all disease stems from subluxation, the

mis-alignment of vertebrae. It seems that from time to time we all need to

change trains and get on an express that by-passes the wrong station.

Joe C.

[Guest guest]

Appreciate your input, Joe.

What do you think is the answer, though? It was not clear to me from

your message. I do gather that you believe in balance and an ecclectic

approach. But please elaborate, if you would.

I've already said that my current answer is more whole fruits and

vegetables, nuts, seeds and oils, still with a few supplements, but not

nearly as many as I used to take. I don't take any synthetic vitamins

now, by the way.

What things are you doing?

Thanks.

Elliot

[Guest guest]

..... " vitamins make expensive pee " .

I say pharmaceutical medication makes is more expensive pee!

Especially those of us who have no insurance!

Now with that said, look at the toxic poisons that the pharmaceuticals added

to the medication as to it as fillers.

Diane

JCastron wrote:

...Last summer I was speaking with a long-time friend that was a school chum of

my son. He became the Top Gun nationally, for one of the leading drug-store

chains. When I asked about Vitamin sales he quipped that they were insignificant

compared to overall sales and that he, " could not forget what he learned in

college many years before.......... " vitamins make expensive pee " .

He is an accredited pharmacist and is on the same train as he was in college and

will not get off the track leading to the town of Big Pharma. It is no different

with physicians and even those in the Alternative fields. There are still

Chiropractors that believe that all disease stems from subluxation, the

mis-alignment of vertebrae. It seems that from time to time we all need to

change trains and get on an express that by-passes the wrong station.

Joe C.

[Guest guest]

Elliot:

I doubt that Dr. Block will be swayed much by the biochemist's comments

since Dr. Block has himself looked into this topic for many years, and

his recent meta-analysis was quite large and based on clinical trials,

not just theoretical reasoning.

For links to Dr. Block's papers and other info on antioxidants, I

suggest Sections 4.2 and 6.2 of my (non-commercial) website.

Best,

Irfan

[Guest guest]

Elliot,

I take Green Tea extract daily and drink at least 2

cups daily also. Along with it's antioxidant

properties, Green Tea also inhibits PDGF

(platete-derived growth factor). PDGF can fuel cell

growth in some cancers, so it's very beneficial to

block the pathway if it's a factor. A test is

available for PDGF. In my case it was positive.

Wondering if you are still doing GIPE? Anything good

or bad to report?

--- breathedeepnow <aug20@...> wrote:

> Thanks, Irfan!

>

> In my mind, the question of how effective external

> antioxidants are

> is certainly far from simple and far from solved.

>

> I am still taking selenium, green tea, curcumin and

> bee pollen, all

> of which are touted by many for their antioxidant

> properties. The

> scientist I quoted even says he believes green tea

> may have some

> significant effect.

>

> By the way, is there any chance you could send what

> this biochemist

> said about external antioxidants to Dr. Block to see

> what Dr. Block

> thinks about it?

>

> Thanks again,

>

> Elliot

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Do you know if green tea is good for uterine sarcoma cancer? Thanks..Kay

From: Niewiara

Elliot,

I take Green Tea extract daily and drink at least 2

cups daily also. Along with it's antioxidant

properties, Green Tea also inhibits PDGF

(platete-derived growth factor). PDGF can fuel cell

growth in some cancers, so it's very beneficial to

block the pathway if it's a factor. A test is

available for PDGF. In my case it was positive.

Wondering if you are still doing GIPE? Anything good

or bad to report?

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kay.

I believe green tea is good in general for those diagnosed with cancer

and those not diagnosed with cancer. Chlorella, alfalfa, spirulina,

kelp and other sea vegetables also are. Even the scientist I know who

feels external antioxidants don't do much says green tea may be one of

the exceptions, due to how it is metabolized.

, with regard to GEIPE, I've said nothing about it lately because I

had not done a treatment for a couple of months. I tried doing a

treatment last night but had some problems. Once I get those worked out

and am able to do one or more treatments, I will let members know how

it's going. Thanks for your interest.

Elliot