Jump to content
RemedySpot.com

Re: gallstones are formed in the liver

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

>>Saying your liver has no stones in it because you have none in your Common

Bile Duct is like saying your yard is weed free because you have none

growing on your sidewalk.<<

Like I said before. I wish I still had the report. It definitely does check

out the " tubing " inside the liver. The doctor also told me right after

surgery, before he had the report, that from examining my organs while he

was in there, everything, including my liver, looked great. (My

chiropractor is always commenting on what an amazingly healthy person I am.

Guess he's right.) But also, as I said before, listening to my body is the

best evidence.

Debra

_________________________________________________________________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

http://www.hotmail.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

you people here who are trusting the medical tests are kidding yourselves. i

have had ultrasounds and mri of my liver and gall bladder. no problems

showed up. i have done 14 cleanses and passed copious amounts of all sorts

of stones. hard ones, soft ones, black, green. the scenario barry indicates

about the calcium stones being formed in the gall bladder sounds like utter

rubbish. the likely scenario is that the flush stones as he calls them, have

just been sitting in the gall bladder for too long and then harden. occam's

razor. this idea of heredity too must be questioned. first look to diet and

other chemicals and offending substances. barry mentioned he has done 8

cleanses. i think that is too little for someone who has had their gall

bladder removed. probably you have tons of larger ones still in your liver.

if you dig deeper, i think you will find the truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

think there are some who would just prefer to believe this. It's like a

religion. His body would be letting him know if there was a problem.

From the MOUTH of someone who will never know....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

>>probably you have tons of larger ones still in your liver.

if you dig deeper, i think you will find the truth.<<

I think there are some who would just prefer to believe this. It's like a

religion. His body would be letting him know if there was a problem.

Debra

_________________________________________________________________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Arthur,

Calcium stones are not formed in the gallbladder, they are advanced

there to bigger sizes. Bile has to enter first. Bile is from the

liver. Could be that even a grain can stay in the gallbladder and

collect to the size that is too big to exit.

As far as my flushing 8 times, you 14 times, etc.

Do you still have colic pain? Why have you flushed 14 times? Are you

going to flush every two weeks for life? Are you still having pain is

the question, and answer. You can mask the pain with the coating

effects of oil and strict dieting but is the problem still there?

What is causing your continual pain? Is it the same problem or are

you making more gallstones?

I eat everything I want at anytime of day and night and have not had

any kind of bilinary pain since surgery. I don't believe I have more

liver stones. If I did would I have pain? If I don't have pain do I

still think I do?

Pain is the key. We all came into this flush method to stop the pain.

I'm sure that none of us couldn't think of something better to do

with a friday night except to drink large amounts of olive oil

and 'eliminate' our brains out the next day. My pain has stopped and

I feel healthy and happy again. That was the truth I was searching

for by coming into this method.

Good luck with your health, happiness, and search for a pain free

life.

Barry.

> you people here who are trusting the medical tests are kidding

yourselves. i

> have had ultrasounds and mri of my liver and gall bladder. no

problems

> showed up. i have done 14 cleanses and passed copious amounts of

all sorts

> of stones. hard ones, soft ones, black, green. the scenario barry

indicates

> about the calcium stones being formed in the gall bladder sounds

like utter

> rubbish. the likely scenario is that the flush stones as he calls

them, have

> just been sitting in the gall bladder for too long and then harden.

occam's

> razor. this idea of heredity too must be questioned. first look to

diet and

> other chemicals and offending substances. barry mentioned he has

done 8

> cleanses. i think that is too little for someone who has had their

gall

> bladder removed. probably you have tons of larger ones still in

your liver.

> if you dig deeper, i think you will find the truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

sorry about misquoting you about the fluke. i guess i got my posters mixed up.

i have never ben in actual pain. i have experienced alot of bloating and

constipation. i came upon these flushes in my search for curing chronic fatigue.

in my early 20's i took antibiotics for 9 months thus destroying my intestinal

tract. thank you modern medicine. i am older and wiser now. but not well yet.

over the past 8 years i have passed approximately 100 pounds of waste from my

colon and countless parasites along the way. at a certain point, i came to the

realization that all of my bloating was not caused by the colon, thus the liver

cleanses. i think part of the reason i need so many cleanses is that i was very

very ill for a long time, and have alot of waste to dispense with. for many

years i ate a paleo diet which is high in fats and meat. at the time i felt that

i needed it because i was so weak and it seemed to help. i needed alot of fats

to lubricate the dry hardened fecal plaque as it passed through my colon. now i

think my body wants to alkalinize with lots of fresh fruits and veggies. it also

seems to want to clean the liver pronto. 6 ounces of oil for me is nothing. i

can drink it like water. do i plan to liver cleanse every two weeks for the rest

of my life? no. of course not. that is not a solution. i plan to cleanse until i

feel my liver is clean and then eat whatever i want and have faith that my body

will restore balance now that i stay away from doctors and the poison they

prescribe. one of the reasons i made that comment to you about you possibly

needing more cleanses is that you had your gall bladder removed. i am guessing

that such a person likely has a liver completely filled with stones. i am glad

you are pain free. if you feel you have reached peace then god bless. in my

search for health over the years i have come to some understanding of how the

body works. my belief is that most of us are walking cesspools. flushing the

liver is just the tip of the iceberg in getting clean.

my main probem now is that after each flush i feel that it is incomplete and i

get constipated. i am assuming this is more stones moving up and getting stuck.

it is very aggravating and frustrating. hopefully it will chill out after a few

more flushes. so to answer your question, yes the problem is still absolutely

there. what is the problem. i think metal poisoning is a piece of the picture

for me. probably the problem is combionation of alot of things. this is what i

think chronic fatigue is. i am not looking to these flishes as the cure for all

my ails, but hoepfully it will be an important piece of the picture.

many years ago, i was doing colonic therapy. i didn't like it at all, and

eventually i found a way to achieve the same results with just diet. i don't

agree that diet must be a strict proposition. to the contrary, the more i learn

i about diet, the more i am finding that what is good for me is exactly what i

want.

as far as using oil to 'coat' the problem. i can see your point, it is well

taken. i don't know where i sit on this issue. on the one hand, there is theory

that humans are innately carnivorous and should thrive on fats and meats.

probably raw. on the other hand i can see that it just might be a kludge

solution. only time will tell. also there is the possibility that alot of fats

are needed to protect the body from the effects of mercury poisoning. this seems

to ring true for me, as i have been doing mercury chelation for a few months

now, and i feel my desire for fats greatly reduced. i still have damage to

repair in my lungs, adrenals and thyroid. a long way to go. i am just blindly

making my way through all of this trying to do what feels right. so far i have

come a long way from being a bedridden vegetable for 5 years. still not there

yet, so i have to keep my mind open.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Arthur,

Our approaches to this cleanse were definitely for different reasons

and pains. I truly hope you can find better health and happiness with

your cleansing.

I had a gb that was pre-diseased, sluggish or not working properly.

My liver is good according to test results. I didn't have a gb 'full'

of stones, only 1 big stone that wouldn't come out according to

ultrasound. The ultrasound was true because once the gb was removed

and cut open only one stone was found there. So why the hundreds of

stones in each flush, the last one done one week before surgery? It

would seem that my removed gb would have had at least the 200 regular

amount of stones in it after cutting it open and looking inside.

Right? If they were dropping down from my liver between flushing then

the gb should have been full of them but it was clear except for the

one stone and sludge. Also my ducts and liver were clear as far as

could be tested.

Theories begin to fly here again. :-)

The colic was terrible, 3 times a week in the middle of the night for

months. I tried 8 flushes and the pain got worse or more sensitive.

The coating effect would stop the pain for a couple of days after a

flush and then return. Strict dieting and loosing 15 lbs didn't help

or stop the pain. My gb needed to come out because it would have

gotten worse, produced more stones in the stagnant organ, or would

have exploded during an attack. During one attack in ER an ultrasound

showed my gb blown up like a balloon.

Anyway, we are all looking for happiness and health and pain free

living.

Good luck in your search.

Barry.

> sorry about misquoting you about the fluke. i guess i got my

posters mixed up.

>

> i have never ben in actual pain. i have experienced alot of

bloating and constipation. i came upon these flushes in my search for

curing chronic fatigue. in my early 20's i took antibiotics for 9

months thus destroying my intestinal tract. thank you modern

medicine. i am older and wiser now. but not well yet.

>

> over the past 8 years i have passed approximately 100 pounds of

waste from my colon and countless parasites along the way. at a

certain point, i came to the realization that all of my bloating was

not caused by the colon, thus the liver cleanses. i think part of the

reason i need so many cleanses is that i was very very ill for a long

time, and have alot of waste to dispense with. for many years i ate a

paleo diet which is high in fats and meat. at the time i felt that i

needed it because i was so weak and it seemed to help. i needed alot

of fats to lubricate the dry hardened fecal plaque as it passed

through my colon. now i think my body wants to alkalinize with lots

of fresh fruits and veggies. it also seems to want to clean the liver

pronto. 6 ounces of oil for me is nothing. i can drink it like water.

do i plan to liver cleanse every two weeks for the rest of my life?

no. of course not. that is not a solution. i plan to cleanse until i

feel my liver is clean and then eat whatever i want and have faith

that my body will restore balance now that i stay away from doctors

and the poison they prescribe. one of the reasons i made that comment

to you about you possibly needing more cleanses is that you had your

gall bladder removed. i am guessing that such a person likely has a

liver completely filled with stones. i am glad you are pain free. if

you feel you have reached peace then god bless. in my search for

health over the years i have come to some understanding of how the

body works. my belief is that most of us are walking cesspools.

flushing the liver is just the tip of the iceberg in getting clean.

>

> my main probem now is that after each flush i feel that it is

incomplete and i get constipated. i am assuming this is more stones

moving up and getting stuck. it is very aggravating and frustrating.

hopefully it will chill out after a few more flushes. so to answer

your question, yes the problem is still absolutely there. what is the

problem. i think metal poisoning is a piece of the picture for me.

probably the problem is combionation of alot of things. this is what

i think chronic fatigue is. i am not looking to these flishes as the

cure for all my ails, but hoepfully it will be an important piece of

the picture.

>

> many years ago, i was doing colonic therapy. i didn't like it at

all, and eventually i found a way to achieve the same results with

just diet. i don't agree that diet must be a strict proposition. to

the contrary, the more i learn i about diet, the more i am finding

that what is good for me is exactly what i want.

>

> as far as using oil to 'coat' the problem. i can see your point, it

is well taken. i don't know where i sit on this issue. on the one

hand, there is theory that humans are innately carnivorous and should

thrive on fats and meats. probably raw. on the other hand i can see

that it just might be a kludge solution. only time will tell. also

there is the possibility that alot of fats are needed to protect the

body from the effects of mercury poisoning. this seems to ring true

for me, as i have been doing mercury chelation for a few months now,

and i feel my desire for fats greatly reduced. i still have damage to

repair in my lungs, adrenals and thyroid. a long way to go. i am just

blindly making my way through all of this trying to do what feels

right. so far i have come a long way from being a bedridden vegetable

for 5 years. still not there yet, so i have to keep my mind open.

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

<<I tried 8 flushes and the pain got worse or more sensitive. >>

how much epsom salts were you using in the flush?

<<Strict dieting and loosing 15 lbs didn't help

or stop the pain. >>

dieting is a VAST subject. strict does not necessarily mean good. losing weight

does not necessarily mean good either.

i have been studying diet for over a decade, and still i know very little. last

year i learned alot about raw foods, raw animal products and raw fats. i think

this is what prompted my liver cleansing

don't get me wrong, i am not at all faulting you for havign your gall bladder

removed. you did what you had to do. i have no idea what i would have done in

your shoes. that said, i still feel that your liver was chock full of stones.

this is my own personal belief. that a person whose situation came down to

surgery probably has some major things going on. though i am new to this

flushing i still think you have lots more in your liver.

at about my 8th cleanse i hit a wall. nothing came out. i decided to eat alot of

raw foods until my next cleanse. the last cleanses have been like a horror

movie. huge black stones.

your gall bladder ultrasound test may have been accurate, and your liver testing

may not have been accurate. my own experience as i have previously posted is

that i had both mri and ultrasound done. neither showed any stones or

abnormailites.

i am truly happy for you that your pain has been relieved.

i would suggest that you take in only raw fats. i'm sure you already know that.

there is a person i know who was helped by stanley bass's sequential eating

technique. he was able to gain 50 pounds of muscle after being emaciated from

losing his gall bladder. you might also benefit from some of aajonus

vonderplanitz' ideas on eating. he does not recognize flushing as valid, but he

has some great ideas on how to eat. and he is an amazing diagnostician with

iridology. he is also an extremist, so caveat emptor.

i still think you are kidding yourself about your liver. i hope i am very very

wrong.

in my experience extreme pain is the very last signal the body wil give us. this

is usually when it is almost too late to do anything about it. the body screams

out 'hey stupid, look over here, you are going to have to listen this time

because something very bad is about to happen'. the subtler signals are a bit

harder to read, but i think they are everpresent.

i am going to get in trouble for this... but here goes...

have you ever tried organic raw meats? there are tons of people on the live-food

list who are getting great benefit from eating this way. myself included.

actually, there is no one who is not receiving health benefits from doing this.

i know this is anti-clark, but i think hulda is a savant. part genius part

idiot. anyways, check into what your ancestors ate before the white european

devils disrputed things. that you mentioned 5 generations of your family before

you proves absolutely nothing about it being a hereditary disorder. if you had

family records that went back 20,000 generations, then i would be more inclined

to believe that you do in fact have a hereditary disorder. try some organic raw

buffalo liver pate. i bet you feel really really really good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear Arthur,

Thanks for those tips on dieting. I'll look into some of them. I will

now try and answer some of your questions.

I was using the Dr. method for my 8 cleanses and varied them

alittle with more ES (5 instead of 4 tblspns) and more oil too.

I lost 15lbs in 4 months. From 170lbs to 155lbs and looked deathly

thin. My regular weight that makes me feel good and healthy is

170lbs. The twice monthly flushing and dieting was the major cause

for the weight loss. The flush would drain a lot of water from my

body and I even was looking at it as an added benenfit at first until

the weight got below 160lbs.

As far as the liver, there are differing opinions that people can't

agree on. Who really knows? The only reason I believe the way I do is

because of the collected knowledge that I have learned over the last

6 months. Here are some key questions that led me to believe I don't

have to worry about hard stones in my liver instead of your opinion

of my liver still being full of stones.

Why do thousands of autopsy reports claim no stones in the liver when

the gallbladder is full of them?

This would prove something. The doctors do not make up the facts

that are evident to them because they don't want to believe them.

It's just not done in information on this level of proof. They

conclude for a reason.

Why did my removed gallbladder only have one 1 cm hard gallstone, and

my ducts and liver were clear? This was 1 week after my last flush.

More stones should have dropped out of my liver into the gb, etc.

Opinions are respected but some are different than others. Some

believe the stones start as small grain in the liver and ducts and

end up growing in the stagnant gallbladder. Others believe that

stones are big and hard and then roll down into the gallbladder

through the 2mm cystic duct. Unlikely. Maybe they start as soft liver

blobs of cholesterol and squeeze into the gb, who really knows?

I think that the gb which will extract the water from the bile more

completely than the liver because it is the purpose of the organ,

that this is the organ to most likely change the bile to hard stones

in the gb.

Whatever the deal, pain is the result of gallstones trying to push

out of the gb, stones stuck in the common or cystic duct, etc. I

haven't heard of liver colic unless the liver is shot beyond repair

anyway.

You know, I'm not really sure about all this because I'm not even a

doctor, and I don't think anyone here really can prove or disprove

anything. All I know is that I had bad colic pain, I tried the

alternative flushing for 4 months with the pain still there and

getting more sensitive. I removed the organ and now the pain is

completely gone. I eat everything and anything at anytime of day or

night and don't have to worry, think, or concentrate on internal

organ pain. I have no bad side effects from loosing the organ.

That is my relief now. I diet better because I have learned that good

dieting is better for the entire body but I don't feel a prisoner to

what I eat or what time it is. I'm free from pain and that is the

goal I was searching for when I came into this method.

I think my liver is functioning fine. If I have even the faintest of

pain I will check into it, do a liver flush or two, and see what is

going on. If I don't have pain I will continue to live healthy and

not worry about what is in there or not. That would be like worrying

if I have kidney stones all of the time when I have no pain in the

kidney. Whatever. Pain-free allows you to live on the outside again

instead of inside the body all of the time.

That's just some of my thoughts. Good luck to you.

Barry.

> <<I tried 8 flushes and the pain got worse or more sensitive. >>

>

> how much epsom salts were you using in the flush?

>

> <<Strict dieting and loosing 15 lbs didn't help

> or stop the pain. >>

>

> dieting is a VAST subject. strict does not necessarily mean good.

losing weight does not necessarily mean good either.

> i have been studying diet for over a decade, and still i know very

little. last year i learned alot about raw foods, raw animal products

and raw fats. i think this is what prompted my liver cleansing

>

> don't get me wrong, i am not at all faulting you for havign your

gall bladder removed. you did what you had to do. i have no idea what

i would have done in your shoes. that said, i still feel that your

liver was chock full of stones. this is my own personal belief. that

a person whose situation came down to surgery probably has some major

things going on. though i am new to this flushing i still think you

have lots more in your liver.

>

> at about my 8th cleanse i hit a wall. nothing came out. i decided

to eat alot of raw foods until my next cleanse. the last cleanses

have been like a horror movie. huge black stones.

>

> your gall bladder ultrasound test may have been accurate, and your

liver testing may not have been accurate. my own experience as i have

previously posted is that i had both mri and ultrasound done. neither

showed any stones or abnormailites.

>

> i am truly happy for you that your pain has been relieved.

>

> i would suggest that you take in only raw fats. i'm sure you

already know that. there is a person i know who was helped by

stanley bass's sequential eating technique. he was able to gain 50

pounds of muscle after being emaciated from losing his gall bladder.

you might also benefit from some of aajonus vonderplanitz' ideas on

eating. he does not recognize flushing as valid, but he has some

great ideas on how to eat. and he is an amazing diagnostician with

iridology. he is also an extremist, so caveat emptor.

>

>

> i still think you are kidding yourself about your liver. i hope i

am very very wrong.

> in my experience extreme pain is the very last signal the body wil

give us. this is usually when it is almost too late to do anything

about it. the body screams out 'hey stupid, look over here, you are

going to have to listen this time because something very bad is about

to happen'. the subtler signals are a bit harder to read, but i think

they are everpresent.

>

> i am going to get in trouble for this... but here goes...

>

> have you ever tried organic raw meats? there are tons of people on

the live-food list who are getting great benefit from eating this

way. myself included. actually, there is no one who is not receiving

health benefits from doing this. i know this is anti-clark, but i

think hulda is a savant. part genius part idiot. anyways, check into

what your ancestors ate before the white european devils disrputed

things. that you mentioned 5 generations of your family before you

proves absolutely nothing about it being a hereditary disorder. if

you had family records that went back 20,000 generations, then i

would be more inclined to believe that you do in fact have a

hereditary disorder. try some organic raw buffalo liver pate. i bet

you feel really really really good.

>

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

>>From the MOUTH of someone who will never know....<<

What are you talking about??? I am in his (Barry's) same situation.

Feelin' fine, and stone-free, thank you. Even though there are some who

would rather not hear this. I'm not saying that this is what everyone

should do, but having done it, I DO INDEED know what my body is telling me.

The report only backs that up.

Debra

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

<<I was using the Dr. method for my 8 cleanses and varied them

alittle with more ES (5 instead of 4 tblspns) and more oil too. >>

this is interesting. the man who turned me onto this cleanse is a d.c. in

vancouver. he claims that in thousands of people he has never encountered a

single serious problem. apparently your experience is different from his claim.

i would like to check into this with him because he seems to have given me only

good advice so far.

<<Why do thousands of autopsy reports claim no stones in the liver when

the gallbladder is full of them? >>

well, let's be scientific about this. please describe in detail the exact

procedure used in these autopsies you talk about. if they don't actually cut

open the liver into tiny pieces and examine every square inch, then there is a

flaw in the autopsy method. and therefore liver stones may go undetected. same

goes for impacted intestines and parasites.

<<The doctors do not make up the facts

that are evident to them because they don't want to believe them.

>>

this has not been my experience in life. most of the doctors i have seen (over

100!)totallyh miss the mark ad concentrate on the most complex solution to a

problem due to the nature of their training. because a person has m.d. after

their name means very little to me. d.c. means very little to me as well. i do

not assume anything anymore. it is not valid to just assume a doctor's motives

or his intelligence

<<They

conclude for a reason.

>>

please tell me the reasons for their conclusions. until we settle the question i

raise about the nature of the autopsies, i will continue to question the reasons

you have cited.

<<More stones should have dropped out of my liver into the gb, etc. >>

why should more stones have dropped from your liver into your gall bladder?

whatg do you mean by etc?

i don't know either how this process works. but i feel i have raised extremely

valid questions. i am still not sold on your explanation yet. but i remain open

until you provide sufficient evidence to sway me. so far your evidence is weak.

you are relying on hearsay from doctors. 10 years ago i would have been alot

more inclined to believe you. but every time i meet a doctor, i hear a person

talking in circles and riddles and hiding behind complex latin language, when

the reality is that doctor's don't have the slightest clue as to how the body

works. we are all equally in the dark as far as i am concerned. people heal

without doctors. the human race seems to have evolved over millions of years

without the help of doctors. all of sudden in the last few hundred years it

seems we have found the care of doctors in the nick of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

>>My liver is good according to test results. I didn't have a gb 'full'

of stones, only 1 big stone that wouldn't come out according to

ultrasound. The ultrasound was true because once the gb was removed

and cut open only one stone was found there. So why the hundreds of

stones in each flush, the last one done one week before surgery? It

would seem that my removed gb would have had at least the 200 regular

amount of stones in it after cutting it open and looking inside.

Right? If they were dropping down from my liver between flushing then

the gb should have been full of them but it was clear except for the

one stone and sludge. Also my ducts and liver were clear as far as

could be tested. <<

I almost hate to get involved here, but I have to say that my results were

the same. Three stones, not hundreds. I say this just to add some

information. Maybe someone can give their opinion on why this would be the

case. Please understand that this is asked respectfully, and with genuine

interest.

Debra

_________________________________________________________________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Debra,

The answer is easy. If I flushed 8 times, every other week for 4

months, over 2,000 soft 'stones', 200-500 each time. And then one

week after my 8th flush had the gb removed and they found only the

one stone that was showing up on ultrasound, where were the others?

How could I flush thousands out of my gb and they only found one

after cutting into the organ you ask? They must be in the liver in

soft form or the bile will produce globs by the flush method itself.

What else?

The gallstone was the problem stone and the real 'gall'stone. The

thousands of soft stones were blobs or balls of bile probably coming

directly from my liver caused by the process of the flush method

itself. Oil? No, it wasn't oil because it is 95% cholesterol. It was

bile from the liver increased and formed into globs by the flush and

then eliminated in the visual way from fasting instead of in the non-

detectable noraml way of regualr stool elimination.

Did it help to flush? Must have helped the liver somehow but the

gallstone remained to cause the original colic problems.

That is from my own experience and opinion. To each their own. :-)

I believe there are bile balls and gallstones. Each with different

charactoristics, properties, results, effects, and eliminations.

Barry.

> >>My liver is good according to test results. I didn't have a

gb 'full'

> of stones, only 1 big stone that wouldn't come out according to

> ultrasound. The ultrasound was true because once the gb was removed

> and cut open only one stone was found there. So why the hundreds of

> stones in each flush, the last one done one week before surgery? It

> would seem that my removed gb would have had at least the 200

regular

> amount of stones in it after cutting it open and looking inside.

> Right? If they were dropping down from my liver between flushing

then

> the gb should have been full of them but it was clear except for the

> one stone and sludge. Also my ducts and liver were clear as far as

> could be tested. <<

>

> I almost hate to get involved here, but I have to say that my

results were

> the same. Three stones, not hundreds. I say this just to add some

> information. Maybe someone can give their opinion on why this

would be the

> case. Please understand that this is asked respectfully, and with

genuine

> interest.

>

> Debra

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Arthur,

You haven't read all of the testimonies in this group or on the

curezone site. There are many people who have had problems with

attacks during a flush, weight loss, etc.

The flush worked fine for me. I produced over 2,000 blobs of bile

during my flushes and even got out a lot of sludge, 12 black small

hard pigment stones, but never the colic 1 cm gallstone from my

sluggish gb. So, it worked and it didn't.

When they do an autopsy they will cut open the gallbladder and cross-

cut the liver into sections. When this is done the results and facts

cannot be disputed. If a gallbladder is full of stones, they will

also dissect the liver to see exactly what is happening. That's how

they learn. Believe it or not. Ask a mortician.

Sorry to hear about your total bad experience with doctors. One was

successful in at least helping you enter this world. Break a bone and

fix it yourself. Need blood and find it yourself. It is a wide scope

and statement.

Conclusions with medicine are like conclusions in any field. Research

to advance the field is found in every field. That is all I mean.

They reach facts and then advance further. They test theory and find

facts to advance further.

Whatever the reason you have to bash doctors is not an interest for

me. They are good for what you need them for weither it is in the

alternative medical field or general medical field. Use both, try

both, etc.

Whatever the case, good luck in your search and choices.

Barry.

> <<I was using the Dr. method for my 8 cleanses and varied

them

> alittle with more ES (5 instead of 4 tblspns) and more oil too. >>

>

> this is interesting. the man who turned me onto this cleanse is a

d.c. in vancouver. he claims that in thousands of people he has never

encountered a single serious problem. apparently your experience is

different from his claim. i would like to check into this with him

because he seems to have given me only good advice so far.

>

> <<Why do thousands of autopsy reports claim no stones in the liver

when

> the gallbladder is full of them? >>

>

> well, let's be scientific about this. please describe in detail the

exact procedure used in these autopsies you talk about. if they don't

actually cut open the liver into tiny pieces and examine every square

inch, then there is a flaw in the autopsy method. and therefore liver

stones may go undetected. same goes for impacted intestines and

parasites.

>

> <<The doctors do not make up the facts

> that are evident to them because they don't want to believe them.

> >>

>

> this has not been my experience in life. most of the doctors i have

seen (over 100!)totallyh miss the mark ad concentrate on the most

complex solution to a problem due to the nature of their training.

because a person has m.d. after their name means very little to me.

d.c. means very little to me as well. i do not assume anything

anymore. it is not valid to just assume a doctor's motives or his

intelligence

>

>

> <<They

> conclude for a reason.

> >>

>

> please tell me the reasons for their conclusions. until we settle

the question i raise about the nature of the autopsies, i will

continue to question the reasons you have cited.

>

> <<More stones should have dropped out of my liver into the gb, etc.

>>

>

> why should more stones have dropped from your liver into your gall

bladder? whatg do you mean by etc?

>

>

> i don't know either how this process works. but i feel i have

raised extremely valid questions. i am still not sold on your

explanation yet. but i remain open until you provide sufficient

evidence to sway me. so far your evidence is weak. you are relying on

hearsay from doctors. 10 years ago i would have been alot more

inclined to believe you. but every time i meet a doctor, i hear a

person talking in circles and riddles and hiding behind complex latin

language, when the reality is that doctor's don't have the slightest

clue as to how the body works. we are all equally in the dark as far

as i am concerned. people heal without doctors. the human race seems

to have evolved over millions of years without the help of doctors.

all of sudden in the last few hundred years it seems we have found

the care of doctors in the nick of time.

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

<<The flush worked fine for me. I produced over 2,000 blobs of bile

during my flushes and even got out a lot of sludge, 12 black small

hard pigment stones, but never the colic 1 cm gallstone from my

sluggish gb. So, it worked and it didn't.

>>

from what you posted in a previous thread, the flushes were unsuccessful in

stopping your pain. you said that after each flush the pain did not go away or

was worse. to me this means it was unsuccessful. and it challenges what the

person i mentioned told me. i am inclined to believe you. if there are others

who have had the same problem then i am curious about their story as well. what

this person claimed was that he never experienced a serious problem with his

clients. yours was a serious problem as you went under the knife. i have

experieneced problems with the flushes but not that serious. after my 8th or 9th

flush i felt that i had to do many of them back to back to get all the very

large stones that were ready to come out. after each one i was in more

discomfort than the previous one. eating was very difficult, this is what

prompted me to do so many of them. to quote this other gentleman, 'all things

will pass providing you take the epsom salts'. so his words and your experience

do not add up. i believe your story, but would still like to challenge this

other person based on your experience.

<<When they do an autopsy they will cut open the gallbladder and cross-

cut the liver into sections>>

how can i verify this statement? how large are the sections you are talking

about. it would seem to me that the since the gall bladder is a hollow organ,

the stones would be so much easier to detect. unless the cross sections you are

talking about are smaller than the average stone size, then we are still not on

the same page here. i have a friend who was chief resident at mass general. he

spent a rotation in pathology, i will ask him, as he has verified some of my

other theories before.

<<Ask a mortician>>

a mortician is someone who puts makeup on a corpse :-)

but these people are probably less harmful than doctors.

as far as emergency room medicine i agree with you. modern medicine has a place

there. they do save alot of lives. no one can doubt this. to me, this is a tiny

percentage of the entire medical profession. my personal belief is that anything

that has to do with the immune system, they are totally off the mark and cause

vast amounts of damage. some of this damage occurs at birth when we are

vaccinated with neurotoxic metals like mercury. do some research on this topic

and you will be horrified at the stories of spontaneous autism occurring right

after a 'vaccination'. the illusion of helpfulness is created. then twenty

years later when your immune system shuts down for no apparent reason, the ama

paradigm begins to unravel. you might even want to research this in relation to

what happened to you. there are strong implications of mercury poisoning in

hundreds of diseases. so i feel that my position on the medical establishment is

completely justified. especially as i regain my health, and realize what the

true causes were. in actuality, my error was in not being strong enough in my

opposition to modern medical practice. the real issue goes deeper than just

modern medicine. i think this is just a symptom of something else. i see it in

music, the arts, business, politics, and in other expressions of our culture. i

feel like we are living mainly in a propagandistic society. to open my eyes to

this it took many years of suffering with illness. the sad fact is that most

people do not think for themselves. ultimately, as you say, the onus is on the

individual to make his or her own decisions. hopefully those decisions will be

made in their own best interest. but when it comes to medicine, once you are

ill, you are alot more behind the 8-ball than you realize.

i do not feel like i am bashing doctors as you say. just calling a spade a

spade. many of my college friends went on to become successful doctors. it's not

that i have anything against doctors per se. it's just that i have come to an

understanding of them. they are just regular people. like lawyers, or

accountants. i know the mindset. the motivation for many of my friends was to

find a career to make good mooney and have some prestige. none of them struck me

as altruistic individuals when we were growing up. to the contrary, many of them

were some of the most self-serving people i have ever met. then all of a sudden

after a few years of med school, their hearts are supposed to have changed? i

doubt it. just realize that most doctors are there to make money and support

their families. the same as a car salesman or a stock broker or short order

cook. caveat emptor.

-peace

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

I'm glad that both you and Barry are involved, Debra. I don't always agree

with the opinions expressed here, but I learn from each one of them. The

explanation is so simple, that it has been stated many times. The reason

that a person can get so many gall stones out in each flush, and then go to

surgery and get only one to three stones out in the gallbladder which is

removed is because it is as Hulda says. The stones are in the liver

hiding out in the many feet of billiary tubing. I doubt any autopsy cuts

the liver up into tiny peices to check for this. The normal tests check

only the common bile duct which is the only place a stone would cause a

noticible problem in a live person. Many stones in the recesses of the

liver cause cumulative problems and over time gradually erode the health.

The gradual nature of the decline in health lends itself to being explained

away by " old age " creeping on or " just allergies " , etc.

That's my .02. Thanks for yours.

Vince

>From: " D B " <fairyflight@...>

>Reply-gallstones

>gallstones

>Subject: Re: Re: gallstones are formed in the liver

>Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 00:04:18 -0400

>

> >>My liver is good according to test results. I didn't have a gb 'full'

>of stones, only 1 big stone that wouldn't come out according to

>ultrasound. The ultrasound was true because once the gb was removed

>and cut open only one stone was found there. So why the hundreds of

>stones in each flush, the last one done one week before surgery? It

>would seem that my removed gb would have had at least the 200 regular

>amount of stones in it after cutting it open and looking inside.

>Right? If they were dropping down from my liver between flushing then

>the gb should have been full of them but it was clear except for the

>one stone and sludge. Also my ducts and liver were clear as far as

>could be tested. <<

>

>I almost hate to get involved here, but I have to say that my results were

>the same. Three stones, not hundreds. I say this just to add some

>information. Maybe someone can give their opinion on why this would be the

>case. Please understand that this is asked respectfully, and with genuine

>interest.

>

>Debra

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

>>many of them were some of the most self-serving people i have ever met.<<

These were your " friends?? " !!!!!!

Debra

_________________________________________________________________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

http://www.hotmail.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

>>. The stones are in the liver

hiding out in the many feet of billiary tubing. I doubt any autopsy cuts

the liver up into tiny peices to check for this. The normal tests check

only the common bile duct which is the only place a stone would cause a

noticible problem in a live person. Many stones in the recesses of the

liver cause cumulative problems and over time gradually erode the health.

<<

Well Vince, we will have to respectfully disagree on this one, and that's

OK. I am only going from my own personal experience. My " tubing " has been

checked, and I feel great. I know that you have not had this experience,

and I am not saying you should (except, I do hope you feel great!), but this

is my reality. I have no doubt that my system is free of stones. Your

experiences are different, and will lead you to different conclusions. If

you are doing something that improves your health, that is great. If you

are feeling wonderful, terrific! That is all I am really concerned with,

regardless of which one of us is categorically " right. "

Thanks, Vince.

Debra

_________________________________________________________________

Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

http://www.hotmail.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

>From: " D B " <fairyflight@...>

> >>. The stones are in the liver

>hiding out in the many feet of billiary tubing. I doubt any autopsy cuts

>the liver up into tiny peices to check for this. The normal tests check

>only the common bile duct which is the only place a stone would cause a

>noticible problem in a live person. Many stones in the recesses of the

>liver cause cumulative problems and over time gradually erode the health.

><<

>

>Well Vince, we will have to respectfully disagree on this one, and that's

>OK.

I agree with you :) We'll continue to disagree unless one of us changes our

mind. Nothing wrong with that.

>(except, I do hope you feel great!), but this

>is my reality. I have no doubt that <snip> If

>you are doing something that improves your health, that is great. If you

>are feeling wonderful, terrific! That is all I am really concerned with,

>regardless of which one of us is categorically " right. "

Feeling great is a part, but not all, of my goal. Compared to those from 20

years younger than me (because they are not taking too good of care of

themselves) to those in my age group and older, I am doing great. I'm 45

now. The rest of my goal is to continue to do well into my senior years

Lord Willing. To do well 20-40 years down the road, I've got to do some

things now that will pay off later like a great investment. Some of the

things discussed on this list have both short and long term benefits. Those

will Gallbladder attacks understandably are focusing on the short term. I'm

Blessed with being free from gallbladder pain and want to keep it that way.

A bonus is that I am experiencing better all around health since I started

taking good care of my liver. I got the book by Hulda , The Cure for

all Diseases, and tested some of the protocols out. My experiences

confirmed her conclusions, and none of my experiences disproved her

conlusions. The more I learn the less I seem to know, but I don't stop

learning.

Vince

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

>>I'm 45

now. <<

Hey, me too!

My major health improvment scenario now consists of getting my biking

stamina up. I walk a lot, and when I received a much desired mountain bike

for mother's day, I thought it would be a snap. Well, New England country

roads are anything but flat, and boy, was I in for a surprise! It's been a

long time since I owned a bike. So every day, I go out for a little longer.

(And then I walk.) I think that taking care of the old cardio-vascular

system is my top priority now. I also think that regular exercise is an

important part of liver health, but that is just my opinion.

45's not so bad, Vince. We're still young.

Debra

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Arthur,

Thanks for those comments. Your opinion is respected. You've made

some very good points.

I think everyone in here has had some doubts about what a doctor has

told them about the gallbladder. This has led us to search for

ourselves on the Internet for alternative methods, etc. We (in here)

are all at least smart enough to search for the answers without just

relying on the first doctors opinion. We all get credit for that.

Sometimes they are wrong, and sometimes they are right. Who are we to

argue? Everyone has to decide what will bring them thier own health,

happiness, and pain-free living.

I believe that the flush was both successful and not (for me). I

cleared out my liver, ducts, but not my pre-diseasing gb. Those small

black pigment stones could have come from my liver. Also, tons of

sludge and toxins were eliminated by my flushings. The gb was a

different story. I masked the colic for a few days only for it to

return. Gradually getting worse over the weeks. This is what I meant

about both successful and not. Also, liver cleansing and gallbladder

flushing are two different methods by the way.

To varify the autopsy you could check with your local medical

examiner. The morge is a good place to start. A mortician actually

knows a lot about autopsy. The main point is that this topic has been

thoroughly studied already. This is what brings knowledge about the

gb to the open. If an autopsy shows gallstones within the gallbladder

do you think they don't dissect every part of the liver to find

truths and answers to organ function? Research has already been done

on this question. Gallstones are full of stones while the liver is

clear at the time of death. What's the answer? You make up your own

mind once you have the facts. Satisfy the question first with the

facts and then reach your own conclusions. Don't question the

research. You will find it has already been done and is out there for

you to use to reach your conclusion. Search and you will see.

You sound like you are definitely on the right track. Good luck in

your search.

Be healthy.

Barry.

> <<The flush worked fine for me. I produced over 2,000 blobs of bile

> during my flushes and even got out a lot of sludge, 12 black small

> hard pigment stones, but never the colic 1 cm gallstone from my

> sluggish gb. So, it worked and it didn't.

> >>

>

> from what you posted in a previous thread, the flushes were

unsuccessful in stopping your pain. you said that after each flush

the pain did not go away or was worse. to me this means it was

unsuccessful. and it challenges what the person i mentioned told me.

i am inclined to believe you. if there are others who have had the

same problem then i am curious about their story as well. what this

person claimed was that he never experienced a serious problem with

his clients. yours was a serious problem as you went under the knife.

i have experieneced problems with the flushes but not that serious.

after my 8th or 9th flush i felt that i had to do many of them back

to back to get all the very large stones that were ready to come out.

after each one i was in more discomfort than the previous one. eating

was very difficult, this is what prompted me to do so many of them.

to quote this other gentleman, 'all things will pass providing you

take the epsom salts'. so his words and your experience do not add

up. i believe your story, but would still like to challenge this

other person based on your experience.

>

> <<When they do an autopsy they will cut open the gallbladder and

cross-

> cut the liver into sections>>

>

> how can i verify this statement? how large are the sections you are

talking about. it would seem to me that the since the gall bladder is

a hollow organ, the stones would be so much easier to detect. unless

the cross sections you are talking about are smaller than the average

stone size, then we are still not on the same page here. i have a

friend who was chief resident at mass general. he spent a rotation in

pathology, i will ask him, as he has verified some of my other

theories before.

>

> <<Ask a mortician>>

>

> a mortician is someone who puts makeup on a corpse :-)

> but these people are probably less harmful than doctors.

>

> as far as emergency room medicine i agree with you. modern medicine

has a place there. they do save alot of lives. no one can doubt this.

to me, this is a tiny percentage of the entire medical profession. my

personal belief is that anything that has to do with the immune

system, they are totally off the mark and cause vast amounts of

damage. some of this damage occurs at birth when we are vaccinated

with neurotoxic metals like mercury. do some research on this topic

and you will be horrified at the stories of spontaneous autism

occurring right after a 'vaccination'. the illusion of helpfulness

is created. then twenty years later when your immune system shuts

down for no apparent reason, the ama paradigm begins to unravel. you

might even want to research this in relation to what happened to you.

there are strong implications of mercury poisoning in hundreds of

diseases. so i feel that my position on the medical establishment is

completely justified. especially as i regain my health, and realize

what the true causes were. in actuality, my error was in not being

strong enough in my opposition to modern medical practice. the real

issue goes deeper than just modern medicine. i think this is just a

symptom of something else. i see it in music, the arts, business,

politics, and in other expressions of our culture. i feel like we are

living mainly in a propagandistic society. to open my eyes to this it

took many years of suffering with illness. the sad fact is that most

people do not think for themselves. ultimately, as you say, the onus

is on the individual to make his or her own decisions. hopefully

those decisions will be made in their own best interest. but when it

comes to medicine, once you are ill, you are alot more behind the 8-

ball than you realize.

>

> i do not feel like i am bashing doctors as you say. just calling a

spade a spade. many of my college friends went on to become

successful doctors. it's not that i have anything against doctors per

se. it's just that i have come to an understanding of them. they are

just regular people. like lawyers, or accountants. i know the

mindset. the motivation for many of my friends was to find a career

to make good mooney and have some prestige. none of them struck me as

altruistic individuals when we were growing up. to the contrary, many

of them were some of the most self-serving people i have ever met.

then all of a sudden after a few years of med school, their hearts

are supposed to have changed? i doubt it. just realize that most

doctors are there to make money and support their families. the same

as a car salesman or a stock broker or short order cook. caveat

emptor.

>

>

> -peace

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Vince,

Thanks for your opinions. There are some further questions to answer

here with your theory.

Are liver stones 'usually' soft and gallstones hard?

Are there two types of bile here? Gallstones that cause colic are

hard. Liver bile is not hard and will usually not cause any pain.

Liver bile that has formed into soft stones will not 'usually' cause

pain. Hard liver stones are very rare. Even the soft bile within the

liver that forms into soft balls during flushing will not usually go

hard and cause colic. Liver bile will come out in the form of

hundreds and thousands of soft balls because of the action of

flushing. If left alone will liver bile just exit on it's own in the

form of bile not yet formed into blobs by a flush?

This is why I have the opinion that there are two types of bile. One

will normally exit with regular bodily function and the other will

cause colic. This has been my personal experience with flushing. In

my opinion the research I have done by reading testimonies in this

group and on flush sites has only helped to back this theory of two

types of bile. Bile liver balls and hard gallstones.

Whatever, does .02 + .02 always equal .04? Not when you add human

opinions together for some reason. haha I'm not trying to disprove

anything, only to define results into their proper place. I may be

wrong but it is my level of understanding that I have reached. There

were too many questions left unexplained that prompted me to study

results further. I have reached a happy conclusion that will answer

all of the questions for me. Bile is in many forms.

Anyway, good luck with your health and happiness.

Barry.

> I'm glad that both you and Barry are involved, Debra. I don't

always agree

> with the opinions expressed here, but I learn from each one of

them. The

> explanation is so simple, that it has been stated many times. The

reason

> that a person can get so many gall stones out in each flush, and

then go to

> surgery and get only one to three stones out in the gallbladder

which is

> removed is because it is as Hulda says. The stones are in

the liver

> hiding out in the many feet of billiary tubing. I doubt any

autopsy cuts

> the liver up into tiny peices to check for this. The normal tests

check

> only the common bile duct which is the only place a stone would

cause a

> noticible problem in a live person. Many stones in the recesses of

the

> liver cause cumulative problems and over time gradually erode the

health.

> The gradual nature of the decline in health lends itself to being

explained

> away by " old age " creeping on or " just allergies " , etc.

>

> That's my .02. Thanks for yours.

>

> Vince

>

>

> >From: " D B " <fairyflight@h...>

> >Reply-gallstones@y...

> >gallstones@y...

> >Subject: Re: Re: gallstones are formed in the liver

> >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 00:04:18 -0400

> >

> > >>My liver is good according to test results. I didn't have a

gb 'full'

> >of stones, only 1 big stone that wouldn't come out according to

> >ultrasound. The ultrasound was true because once the gb was removed

> >and cut open only one stone was found there. So why the hundreds of

> >stones in each flush, the last one done one week before surgery? It

> >would seem that my removed gb would have had at least the 200

regular

> >amount of stones in it after cutting it open and looking inside.

> >Right? If they were dropping down from my liver between flushing

then

> >the gb should have been full of them but it was clear except for

the

> >one stone and sludge. Also my ducts and liver were clear as far as

> >could be tested. <<

> >

> >I almost hate to get involved here, but I have to say that my

results were

> >the same. Three stones, not hundreds. I say this just to add some

> >information. Maybe someone can give their opinion on why this

would be the

> >case. Please understand that this is asked respectfully, and with

genuine

> >interest.

> >

> >Debra

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

http://mobile.msn.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

<<The main point is that this topic has been

thoroughly studied already. This is what brings knowledge about the

gb to the open. If an autopsy shows gallstones within the gallbladder

do you think they don't dissect every part of the liver to find

truths and answers to organ function? Research has already been done

on this question. Gallstones are full of stones while the liver is

clear at the time of death. What's the answer? You make up your own

mind once you have the facts. Satisfy the question first with the

facts and then reach your own conclusions. Don't question the

research. You will find it has already been done and is out there for

you to use to reach your conclusion. >>

do i think pathologists examine every part of the liver when they find stones in

the gall bladder? i don't know barry, but it seems to me that your logic falls

apart right here. this is exactly why i asked that question. the issue is: do

livers get cut into tiny sections during autopsy. i doubt it. aside from this

point, we seem to agree on everything. but this is a HUGE point in the context

of our dialog and an extremely important point to clarify for people on both

sides of the debate. i think you are turning a blind eye to the question i have

raised. you certainly have that right. time and time again i have found medical

testing to be inaccurate. i would not be alive today had i not challenged many

of the tests i have received in the past. your argument-by-default does not hold

water. i'm not saying i'm right either, just that i have raised an extremely

pertinent question. no one here has answered that question yet. if i muster up

the energy one day i will pursue it. if anyone can point me in a suitable

direction i will follow the lead.

i can understand where you are coming from. it is a very scary proposition to

realize that volumes of research might be in fact be flawed or inaccurate. it is

also a scary proposition to realize that a doctor does not necessarily know what

he is doing. it is scary to realize that the 'system' does not necessarily have

your best interest in mind. this puts complete responsibility for one's health

on the individual. everyone wants to feel taken care of. docotors fulfill this

need. unfortunately this is often a fantasy and a charade. sometimes it is not,

as you say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Arthur,

Obviously they don't dissect every part of the liver on 'everybody'

who has died with gallstones in the gallbladder. The point is that

they have dissected every part of the liver on 'enough' of the people

who have died with gallstones in the gallbladder to reach a

conclusion which is based on facts. Hundreds of dissections on

internal organs after death have been sufficient to prove a point

with facts.

Study the results and let me know what you find. Maybe the sufficient

facts will not prove anything to you. I don't think the facts are

wrong. I think they should be respected for what they have proven.

Good luck in your search for this particulat proof that you need. I

hope you find the truth.

Barry.

> <<The main point is that this topic has been

> thoroughly studied already. This is what brings knowledge about the

> gb to the open. If an autopsy shows gallstones within the

gallbladder

> do you think they don't dissect every part of the liver to find

> truths and answers to organ function? Research has already been

done

> on this question. Gallstones are full of stones while the liver is

> clear at the time of death. What's the answer? You make up your own

> mind once you have the facts. Satisfy the question first with the

> facts and then reach your own conclusions. Don't question the

> research. You will find it has already been done and is out there

for

> you to use to reach your conclusion. >>

>

> do i think pathologists examine every part of the liver when they

find stones in the gall bladder? i don't know barry, but it seems to

me that your logic falls apart right here. this is exactly why i

asked that question. the issue is: do livers get cut into tiny

sections during autopsy. i doubt it. aside from this point, we seem

to agree on everything. but this is a HUGE point in the context of

our dialog and an extremely important point to clarify for people on

both sides of the debate. i think you are turning a blind eye to the

question i have raised. you certainly have that right. time and time

again i have found medical testing to be inaccurate. i would not be

alive today had i not challenged many of the tests i have received in

the past. your argument-by-default does not hold water. i'm not

saying i'm right either, just that i have raised an extremely

pertinent question. no one here has answered that question yet. if i

muster up the energy one day i will pursue it. if anyone can point me

in a suitable direction i will follow the lead.

>

> i can understand where you are coming from. it is a very scary

proposition to realize that volumes of research might be in fact be

flawed or inaccurate. it is also a scary proposition to realize that

a doctor does not necessarily know what he is doing. it is scary to

realize that the 'system' does not necessarily have your best

interest in mind. this puts complete responsibility for one's health

on the individual. everyone wants to feel taken care of. docotors

fulfill this need. unfortunately this is often a fantasy and a

charade. sometimes it is not, as you say.

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

<<The point is that

they have dissected every part of the liver on 'enough' of the people

who have died with gallstones in the gallbladder to reach a

conclusion which is based on facts>>

sorry to be a pain in the butt...

but how do you know this. can you site a study, a book, research paper, person,

or anything concrete, or are you just assuming this has been done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...