Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 In a message dated 2/20/03 2:20:59 PM Central Standard Time, jhoorm01@... writes: > How much fish oil do you use and sorry for being so dumb but what do use it > in? > Joy > I use 3 capsules per day, when I use them, Mega EPA-1000 capsules from GNC which supply a total of 540mg EPA and 360mg DHA and 60mg of vitamin E and for the flax oil Barleans 2 capsules =990 mg Omega3, 260 mg Omega6, 290mg Omega9 Orin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 In a message dated 2/20/03 2:26:28 PM Central Standard Time, pookiegut@... writes: > Where are you getting the cilantro? Fresh or store bought? Also, I don't > remember are you on any DMARDS at all? I didn't realize you were that mild. > What do most of your consider mild? I have often wondered that, since I > don't know what I consider myself to be really. > > > Store bought. I had some planted last year but just as it was making seed it got mowed. * & %@ I got up to about 25% skin involvement and it was driving me crazy so I finally broke down and started using the topical steroid again. I have been using betamethasone dipropionate for the skin for 6 weeks and a total of 8 vioxx so far and no other meds. I consider my PA to be mild because I dont have any deformities, other than fingernails. No swelling or serious decrease in range of motion. I had some sausage fingers/toes about 5 years ago and very painful ankylosing spondylitis about 10 years ago at about the same time the skin condition went from a small isolated spot here and there to 30% scalp, groin and nail involvement. One knee ballooned up 2 years ago August and by Oct that same year both knees and both shoulders were involved. Not so much swelling but popping like crazy, pain and decreased range. In that condition I couldnt work at what I had been doing and had to find some kind of solution to this so I spent every waking hour studying. That was about the same time I joined this group. Maybe it was a few months later when I joined I dont remember. Orin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Orin How much fish oil do you use and sorry for being so dumb but what do use it in? Joy > I came across a page while researching flax that really raised an > eyebrow. http://www.flax.com/newlibrary/FOLK.html Note the section > where it describes a Greek bread. It talks of linseed which is the > same thing as flax and corriander which is the seed from a cilantro > plant. I'm not highly studied on ancient history and I havent > verified the info on that page but if the dates they give are > accurate wouldnt that make flax one of the oldest domesticated grains? > > Many of us have realised that flax can be an important ingredient in > treating autoimmune diseases but few have discovered cilantro. Based > upon the possibility that I might be mercury toxic I used cilantro > quite a bit last year at this time and through the summer. My > condition went from nearly disabled with arthritis in both knees and > both shoulders to virtually free of arthritic symptoms, remission? I > wasnt sure if the cilantro was helping or not and quit using it as > well as discontinuing the fish/flax oils. Well come about Christmas > I was having joint pains again at which time I restarted the > fish/flax oils and recently resorted to vioxx which my Grandmother > bootlegged to me. The vioxx, 25mg/day 2 days on 1 day off, has been > effective but before the vioxx my pains have been quite mild even in > comparasin to my own history. I ate cilantro again and the arth > symptoms which have been increasing over the past 3 months, have been > gone for 4 days without vioxx. The vioxx helps but I will attest that > cilantro is just as effective for me and the effect lasts longer than > the vioxx. My initial impression is that the vioxx effectively > reduces the symptoms for me but the cilantro is doing something to > reduce the cause of symptoms. I also use fresh garlic and lemon with > the cilantro. I hope that someone else, preferably someone who's > condition is much more severe, will volunteer to try this and see > what effect it has. I would suggest starting off with small amounts > of the cilantro. Nature will probably keep you from eating too much, > the flavor has somewhat of a dose-limiting effect. I will continue on > with the cilantro and report again in a few weeks. Orin > > > > Please visit our Psoriatic Arthritis Group's informational web page at: > http://www.wpunj.edu/pa/ -- created and edited by list member aka(raharris@...). > > In August 2001 list member Jack aka(Cornishpro@...) began to conduct extensive research which he publishes as the Psoriatic Arthritic Research Newsletter monthly in our emails and digest format. Many thanks to Jack. Back issues of the newsletter are stored on our PA webpage. > > Also remember that the list archives comprise a tremendous amount of information (Over two years of messages and answers).Feel free to browse them at your convenience. > > Let's hear from some of you lurkers out there! If you have a comment or question chances are there is a person who has been around a while who can help you out with an educated guess for an answer. If not we can at least steer you in the right direction with a good website to go to for the answers. > > Blessings and Peace, > > Atwood-Stack, Founder > Alan , Web & List Editor > Jack , Newsletter Editor > Pat Bias, List Editor > Ron Dotson, List Editor > and many others who help moderate (thank you!) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Orin, Where are you getting the cilantro? Fresh or store bought? Also, I don't remember are you on any DMARDS at all? I didn't realize you were that mild. What do most of your consider mild? I have often wondered that, since I don't know what I consider myself to be really. In a message dated 2/20/2003 2:39:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, orinok writes: > I will continue on > with the cilantro and report again in a few weeks. Orin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 In a message dated 2/20/2003 1:12:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, orinok@... writes: > . I would suggest starting off with small amounts > of the cilantro Hi Orin, Just how much cilantro did you eat each day and did you just eat it raw with the lemon and garllic. Did you put it in salad? I'm willing to try anything. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Yee Ha! Pico de Gallo - my favorite. J ----- Original Message ----- From: Orin <orinok@...> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 In a message dated 2/20/03 3:40:44 PM Central Standard Time, robinanne53@... writes: > ~~~I think you can take the fish oil in tablets, can't you? Is that the > Omega 3 stuff????> ~~~ ~~~Oh my gosh...if this is true, then we have a miracle here. That would be great!!!!~~~ ~~~you take Omega 3, 6 AND 9????~~~ In a message dated 2/20/03 7:58:56 PM Central Standard Time, pookiegut@... writes: > So how did you get it under control Orin? Your Psoriasis spread sounds much > like mine. What is your diet? > Also, have you EVER taken anything other than VIOXX? Would you take a DMARD > or biologic IF you had insurance? Sounds like you do very well without it! > > > In a message dated 2/20/03 8:00:29 PM Central Standard Time, ljtexas@... writes: > Yee Ha! Pico de Gallo - my favorite. > The source of anything you put in your body should be as close as possible to the way nature provided it. We have been selectively bred to prosper on certain foods so if you must take a suppliment in the form of a pill, that may be better than not getting it at all but it would be better to go catch the fish yourself and cook it right there on the bank. That isnt practical for most so get as close as possible. Miracle? No just a lot of bookwork and observation motivated by pain and ridicule. This post speaks more toward the PA side of things and although I might have noted minor improvements in the skin by making changes based on these observations it certainly doesnt approach a cure. One more peice of the puzzle. The historicly normal ratio of Omega3/Omega 6 fatty acids was between 1/1and 1/3 based on food items and methods of preparation with Omega9's coming in a distant 3rd. In the US this ratio is now 1/20 or even worse. Several reasons for this are that animal fat has been made taboo and Omega3 oils typicly turn rancid quicker. In other words foods prepared with Omega6 oils have a longer shelf life. Well mineral oil has an even longer shelf life. (Anyone heard of olestra?) Should we cook with it instead? A second problem is that not only is the ratio of fat types significantly altered from that which our recent ancestors consumed but much more of the oils we eat have been heated to unnatural temperatures instead of being eaten at room temperature, straight off the vine so to speak. If those observations dont display enough of an insult to natural diet, we also hydrogenate everything. During the processes of heating and hydrogenation some molecules in these oils are converted from their predominantly -cis configuration to -trans configuration. Some who have financial interests in the debate would have you believe that this doesnt make any difference and that your body can tolerate it. Well your body can tolerate an amount of alcohol too, but how much? Basicly the difference between a -cis and a -trans is that a segment of the molecule where a bend occurs is bent in the opposite direction. What this may cause is that this abnormal molecule may take part in different chemical reactions in the body up until a certain point at which the normal processes can continue no further because " the key doesnt fit the lock " Ok a certain amount of these -trans molecules will show up no matter what you do but the way we process oils encourages many times the the number of spontaneously created trans molecules, overload. So now we have this molecule that has participated in the normal flow of events up to a point at which the next reaction cannot take place. You have a cell that is 1/1000 disabled. That's ok your body can adjust. But then another one comes along. Now that cell is 2/1000 disabled. Do you see the pattern? Degenerative disease. The normal body processes are interrupted at the cellular level. The more you accumulate cells that are contaminated with altered molecules that the body has no way of removing, the older you are. Not only speaks to the mysterious problems of degenerative diseases but also to aging? It's funny we have cultural practices that were established maybe centuries back and we have continued the ritual to this day and some valuable rituals have been dropped because nobody remembers what it was for. Lack of wisdom? Kids not listening to what grandma says? Why was it imperitive just a hundred years ago for every kid to get a good dose of cod liver or castor oil once in a while and nobody uses it anymore? Were they ignorant or are we? They didnt have penicillin and they didnt have chlorine in their water and they didnt have central heat and air and they couldnt bathe daily and they didnt have refrigerators how in the hell did they survive? Because they unthinkingly unblinkingly did just exactly as their old senile grandmother told them to do and choked down the cod liver oil. They didnt need to know about essential fatty acids, vitamins hormones titers and all that they just did it cause someone noticed, likely on accident, that it helped. It is a fading ritual to put a single leaf of parsley on the side of a dish hmmmm chinese parsley= cilantro Somebody a long time ago started the practice of placing parsley on the side now nobody eats what the chef told them to so why put it there? Is it really just for looks or did someone a long time ago realise that we need that little green pill to be healthy and that a single little dainty leaf per week might prevent some obscure disease? It wasnt but just a few years back you had to eat whatever was available which meant a little of this herb and a little of this weed and a little of this seed all as nature provided it and WHEN nature provided it. Just a short 2000 years ago nobody but a king could eat leavened wheat bread or soybean oil with every single meal the year round. Maybe we should all make an effort to detour away from fast food row and go browse through the woods grazing on all the luscious herbs like our ancestors did sometimes or at least make a point of sampling every single item in the produce section of the grocery store twice a year. Better yet, grow it yourself so you know what all has been put on it. So the next time the chef puts something in your food that you dont just love EAT IT ANYWAY cause Grandma said to. I havent resorted to any of the high powered drugs, immunosuppresants, DMARDs elaborate NSAIDs etc. I am not interested in the moment in risking the side effects of some of those drugs as my joint condition has improved without them. Wish I could say the same for the skin. 2 years ago I would have if the money were available. Hell I would have eaten cow sh** if someone could convince me it would stop what was happening to me. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I dont have this thing all figured out yet, and when I do I doubt it will be any magic bullet but rather elimination of several less than magic culprits. Orin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 I've been pushing large bunches of organic cilantro through my vegetable mixture for some time now. Cilantro has a wonderful smell. While I can't determine if it has specifically helped with my arthritis, I can say that vegetable juicing in general is excellent. Elfstrom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 At 01:47 PM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Orin, >I don't mean to sound dumb either, but you take Omega 3, 6 AND 9???? Natural fat sources (flax, walnut, meat, eggs, etc) each have different ratios of Omega 3, 6 and 9. The advantage of flax and fish oils is that they are more balanced towards the Omega 3 side, which we tend to lack in our modern diets. Until someone gets around to separating out the Omega 3, you'll always be getting a mix of fats, and that's certainly a good thing! Elfstrom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 In a message dated 2/21/03 12:34:43 PM Central Standard Time, fam24@... writes: > Hi Orin, > Just how much cilantro did you eat each day and did you just eat it raw > with > the lemon and garllic. Did you put it in salad? I'm willing to try > anything. > Janet > I dont eat it every day continually but because it wilts and goes bad so quickly, about 4-5 days in the refrigerator, I will usually eat about 6 leaf/stems per day for 3 days then wait a week to 10 days before repeating. I always end up throwing 3/4 of the huge bundle from the store on the compost heap but it is like 65 cents a bundle so I dont cry too much about wasting it. I have eaten it raw but it is a bit overpowering that way so boiling it for a short period may be the best way. I tried some in tuna salad and it didnt work so well ha ha I like to make ramen noodles and pitch the finely chopped cilantro in just before serving. I did check on the Taco Bell Gorditas and it was the SantaFe that had cilantro but they no longer offer it. It primarily used in Greek, Thai, VeitNamese, Spanish and Mexican dishes so you might snoop around and find recipies. I strongly believe in garlic as well and think that virtually everyone would stand to benefit from fresh garlic. In a message dated 2/21/03 12:41:18 PM Central Standard Time, leslieiansa@... writes: > I tried taking the fish oil soft gels and I could never get over the taste! > All during the day I would have that nasty after-taste. Anyone got any > suggestions on how to get past that? > Thanks, Les That can be a problem. When I first experimented with the fish oil about 5 years or so ago I kept increasing the dose over about a month until I was using about 6 caps per day to try to clear my skin. A guy I worked with commented one day that I smelled like fish ha ha I took that as a clue to back off of them. I did have some improvement in my skin at that time but I was trying 50 other things at the same time, shotgun approach. You might try taking the oil before a meal and there may be differences between brands. If you use fish liver oils such as cod it will surely have a more pungent flavor and aroma and liver oils shouldnt be taken more than 1 or 2 doses a month cause of the potential for excessive vitamin A and a super copper-tone tan. I've been pushing large bunches of organic cilantro through my vegetable mixture for some time now. Cilantro has a wonderful smell. While I can't determine if it has specifically helped with my arthritis, I can say that vegetable juicing in general is excellent. Natural fat sources (flax, walnut, meat, eggs, etc) each have different ratios of Omega 3, 6 and 9. The advantage of flax and fish oils is that they are more balanced towards the Omega 3 side, which we tend to lack in our modern diets. Until someone gets around to separating out the Omega 3, you'll always be getting a mix of fats, and that's certainly a good thing! Elfstrom I hope that you will continue to do so and keep mental notes on your condition following a dose of cilantro. Seems that there arent many fence riders on cilantro. You either really like it or you hate it. " Tastes like soap " Well maybe we need a little bit of soap once in a while. I agree that we need all those " essential " fatty acids balance and moderation is the goal. Orin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 Robinanne, The book " Strong Women and Men Beat Arthritis " gives you the ratio of Omegas needed to help combat some of the problems with arthritis. It has a really good arthritic diet to follow that is very basic and not too hard to do. It gives you sample menus, and good versus bad fat facts. It's a ton of information right at your fingertips, so you don't have to read 15 books to get the right diet. In a message dated 2/21/2003 4:35:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, orinok writes: > > ~~~I think you can take the fish oil in tablets, can't you? Is that the > > Omega 3 stuff????> ~~~ > ~~~Oh my gosh...if this is true, then we have a miracle > here. That would be > great!!!!~~~ > ~~~you take Omega 3, 6 AND 9????~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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