Re: To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a Nightmare!

[Guest guest]

Fran,

I am so sorry that you had to go through such a horrible experience. I'm

sure you feel violated and angry that these doctors are so ignorant. I also

have spoken to several different doctors and the majority say not to worry

about the Vioxx and then the cardiologist told me not to take it. I tried to

stop but the pain got to be too much. It'a really a shame when the patient

has

more knowledge then the physician which happens to me in most cases.

Don't give up because there has to be some better doctors out there

somewhere. I know one of our patients in the doctor's office I worked in has

the

same condition that you have (erythromelegia) and she went to the Mayo clinic

in Rochester, Minn. She was very happy there since nobody here in NY could

help her. You might consider this.

I don't think I will be online for a few weeks since I am going to FLorida

and then a cruise with my sister. I wish everyone here painfree days and will

be post when I get back. That is if a hurricaine doesn't get me.

Janet

[Guest guest]

--

Hi Fran,

Sorry about your experience at that Cleveland Clinic; do Drs. even

think before they speak?!! I went to my Ortho. Dr. he is suppose to

be the BEST in the state of Michigan and this visit he told me to go

ahead and start Enbrel before my total hip surgery and a month before

he had said he didn't want the Rheumy or Derm. Dr. to start me on it

because of my immune system and getting ready for a surgery!! I

looked at him in disbelief because of his change with his

descision!! I've been waiting all these months to start Enbrel!! He

is the one that gives me a hard time with my pain medication and my

Rheumy doesn't want to prescribe pain medication because he thinks my

Ortho. Dr. is!! Finally my Derm. DR. said enough is enough and went

ahead and prescribed Enbrel for me, I'm waiting for the insurance to

okay it. I have had some real winners as Drs., the worse Dr. I have

gone to was down in Toledo, Ohio at a Medical College of Ohio

hospital he had me in tears and I know he was showing off to his

intern because it is suppose to be a learning hospital. He ask me

why I was there-my fingers in my hands I couln't bend I could barely

walk without my walker/wheelchair. He made me climb on " the table "

without any assistance. He was so hateful and the hospital was so

dirty. It was terrible-I really feel for you.

God Bless, Sue.

- In , " Fran Mishler " <fran@m...>

wrote:

> Dear Janet and every one else in the group,

>

> Well I'm back from Naples and the Cleveland Clinic. The easiest

way to say

> it is it was a total waste of time. I had several of my doctors

here tell

> me that they thought the Cleveland Clinic in Naples was full of

the " playboy

> doctors " who enjoyed their weekends and half work weeks more than

dealing

> with patients. I have to say that I totally agree with that

summary. I saw

> three doctors the whole time I was there and they got worse with

each visit.

> The first one was the dermatologist who told me again that he

didn't think I

> had psoriasis on my arms and legs. I told him that my

rheumatologist had

> said that since I've been on prednisone the results could have been

wrong

> from the biopsies, but he didn't think so. He thinks all I have is

a type

> of genetic sun damage that can be precancerous, but isn't really

that

> serious. I asked him about my erythromelalgia, which is what turns

my skin

> bright red and burns all the time, and he didn't know anything

about it. I

> had to tell him that is was listed in NORD, the national

organization for

> rare disease, so he knew how to look it up. He came back and said

that

> aspirin has been a treatment choice that works best, and I know for

a fact

> that they don't use aspirin anymore and that hasn't been the

treatment of

> choice for over 5 years. I didn't point that out to him, but he

told me to

> see the rheumatologist next and then we would talk again right

after.

>

> Well we all have rheumatologist stories about how rotten they can

be or what

> jerks they can act like, just imagine all those stories rolled up

into one

> and you've met my doctor. First of all, he was the one that made me

> reschedule all my appointments because he had " plans'' out of town,

which of

> course he didn't apologize for or even mention, not that I expected

him too.

> The first thing he did was complain about my medication. I tried

to tell

> him all the drugs I've been on, but he had to ask the questions and

only

> wanted yes and no answers. If I tried to explain something, he

would cut me

> off and say, " I don't need to hear this " . Finally, I said well

then what do

> you need to hear? and he just said Yes or NO. So I was frustrated

but I

> tried to do that too. Then he decided to examine me while I was

saying yes

> or no and I've never had someone hurt me so much in an exam. Where

most

> doctors know they are dealing with a chronic pain patient, they go

out of

> their way to be careful, he was just the opposite. I almost felt

like the

> thought I was faking the pain. My daughter was in the room with me

and said

> I was literally jumping off the table and he would said does that

hurt? All

> I could get out was Yes and stop it, and he was on to another

place. I was

> black and blue the next day all over my sides, arms and along my

spinal

> area. My hip hurt so bad the next day I could barely walk. When

it was all

> over he said I had arthritis from an undetermined source, maybe

rheumatoid

> and maybe PA, and probably osteo as well. (I said I knew all that

before I

> came here. I was so upset by this point I was almost in tears and

almost

> felt like a rape victim I was in so much pain. I really do plan to

write a

> letter to the main office in Cleveland and complain about him.

I've never

> had such a rude, and basically mean doctor in all my life. That

was all he

> did and he walked out. He didn't offer me any advice, any new

medications,

> want to run any more tests, or make any suggestions. He made me

feel like I

> had too many problems, should never had been on prednisone and he

definitely

> didn't want to treat me. The idea of working with me to help me

feel

> better, never entered his mind. He did tell me me I had

inflammation along

> my chest wall, I guess that was from all the cries I gave out when

he was

> stabbing me, but when I asked him what he recommended for that, he

told me

> to meditate. I've got nothing against meditation and have done it

all my

> life, but I wasn't prepared to hear that from him. He said he was

stress

> related, but I think my rheumatologist here at home told me it was

PA

> related. So needless to say, I'm staying with my current doctors.

One

> thing the whole visit did do was make me realize just what great

doctors I

> really do have.

>

> My next appointment was with the internist. I was at the end of my

rope by

> this time and ready to just leave, but my daughter convinced me to

give him

> a try. So he walks in and says, he can't believe I'm on heavy

narcotics for

> my pain. I told him, or tried too about my jaw and how bad the

bones are

> and the fact the nerves are exposed and inflamed from all the joint

damage,

> but he didn't care. He looked at me and said, " I'm not giving you

> morphine. " I just said, " I didn't ask you for any and not what I

am here

> for, that's why I went into pain management so I could always be

regulated

> and make sure I was safe with what I took. " He told me I would get

the same

> benefits from going to watch a sunset! My daughter and I was were

just

> shocked. I said, that's your advice, with all that's wrong with

me? He

> said, well you are too complicated of a case for me and have too

many

> problems. He said that he wouldn't want to treat me and that fact

that I " ve

> been on prednisone for 3 years was just asking for all sorts of

problems. I

> told him I'm down to 15mg from 60mg, but nothing I said again

mattered. He

> couldn't get past the pain medication. Then at the end he

said, " Oh, well I

> don't know anything about pain management anyway. " So he said,

What do you

> want from me? At the point, I just said nothing, I " m ready to get

out of

> here and we left.

>

> So that was the whole great experience. I didn't learn a thing.

OH and the

> rheumatologist told me that Vioxx was very dangerous for heart

problems,

> even at 25mg, and then 5 minutes later the Internist told me that

Vioxx was

> perfectly safe and the last study was flawed. I never even told

him what

> his " great colleague " had said...It was a real night mare. When I

got out

> all I wanted to do was cry. It was a complete waste of my time and

I am

> still sore from all the poking. All I can say, is I hope that

anyone who

> goes to Cleveland Clinic goes to the one in Cleveland and hopefully

they

> aren't the same type of doctors there. I guess my experience could

have

> been a fluke and maybe someone else would have had a great

experience, but

> my daughter felt like she needed a drink when it was over with and

all she

> did was watch!.

>

> The good news is I stayed an extra day with my daughter and we had

fun going

> out and shopping. I couldn't do as much as normal because of the

exam, but

> I still saw my sister and my niece for lunch. So it wasn't all

bad. I'm

> sorry I don't have any great news. I did manage to ask the

Internist about

> the leg vein problem and he blamed it all on the prednisone. I

know some

> people in the group were wondering about that question and how it

can cause

> edema. I also know that not everyone is on prednisone, so he

didn't really

> give me a good answer, but that was normal for the whole visit.

That was at

> the end and by then I had taken all I could of those doctors. I

never did

> see the dermatologist again. He got tired of waiting on me and

just left.

> So he didn't really care about the situation either. I don't know

if it

> would have been better if my husband would have gone with me or

not. He

> would have probably hit the rheumatologist, so I doubt it would

have made

> the situation any better...lol.

>

> Talk about depressing. I wish I had better news to report, but for

me it

> was a waste of time and painful in the process. Take care and I'll

write

> more later. I'm still pretty overwhelmed by the whole experience.

Take

> care and I hope everyone has been feeling ok and doing well the

past few

> days. Love, Fran

> Fran,

> by the time you read this you will probably be back from the clinic

> already.

> You are in my thoughts and prayers and I hope they can help you

there in

> the way you want them to. I'm sure everyone here feels the same

way. We

> will be anxious to hear the news when you return.

> Janet

[Guest guest]

Dear sweet, wonderful Fran, God Bless You for enduring such a horrific

experience. I am sooooo sorry you had to go thru such an event. The Dr's you saw

are an embarrassment to valid medical persons all over the world.

ONE day, people will understand, will have good solutions, and at the very least

some compassion.

be well, know you are cared about.

love annie and the pugherd

[Guest guest]

Oh Fran,

I am SO sorry you had such a horrible experience. I know you had your

hopes up that they might be able to help you there. HUGS and more HUGS

Glad you will write a letter complaining about the rheum. And glad

you had a witness in the room with you. I had a similar experiece

with a well respected rheum and it took me awhile to get over it. It

does make you feel violated.

Any med school admission directors out there? I think we need to add

compassion the list of needed requirements for entrance.

-

You are so valuable to us,

Marti

[Guest guest]

Geez Fran, how awful for you. Are you going to contact anyone about your rude

treatment? If you do I would definitely try to get some pics of those bruises

they put on you to prove how rough they were on you. I just hate it when docs

are such A$$ Holes!!! You are much more patient than I would have been. If I

was talked to like that my Sicilian blood would have started boiling and I would

have let them have a piece of my mind. I'm getting nervous myself as my

husband, who is active duty Army, is going to get notified on Thursday as to

where and when we are moving again. It probably will be San , TX. and it

may be very soon, so just as I completed my stint at pain management and the doc

was getting ready to transfer me back to my primary doc for med checks I'm going

to have to find all new doctors in Texas and possibly deal with being judged as

a " narcotics addict " once again. (Sigh) Reading your experience is hitting way

too close to home as I have had similar nightmare experiences trying to find

good docs. Well, I'm glad that you at least got to spend some time with your

family and have a little fun even though you were hurting some. I hope you feel

better soon.

Axelrod

[ ] To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a Nightmare!

Dear Janet and every one else in the group,

Well I'm back from Naples and the Cleveland Clinic. The easiest way to say

it is it was a total waste of time. Love, Fran

[Guest guest]

Hi Fran,

Sorry your visit to the Three Stooges didn't work out. You kinda look

forward to these appointments at times and then you are badly let down when you

get

there. You deserve better!

I know it has been said before on this list but it would help if these

doctors could feel like we feel for even an hour, then they would try a bit

harder. Don't get me wrong. My doctors are all great and do show concern and

compassion but when I read your latest mail and some of the stories from the

others, it makes me realise that things could be worse for me.

Its good that you are not going to just let it go like that. I think he

needs someone to complain about him.

Hope you manage to get over your experience soon. We are thinking about you.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sue, Thanks for the kind words. You sound like you've had your share

of jerky doctors too. Looking back on the whole thing, I don't know why I

didn't stop the painful exam sooner? I guess we are taught to respect the

doctor and that sometimes they have to hurt you. All I know is I've never

had someone jerk me around like that, and especially since he knew I was in

chronic pain. I guess that's where the rape victim feeling comes from

because I didn't fight back or just stop the exam. It was pretty fast too,

so I just felt like I was saying, pain, pain, pain, and no one heard me.

I'm so glad you are going to get to try Enbrel. I know it doesn't work for

everyone and it didn't for me, but the people it helps just seem to be born

again. I hope you get those kind of results. I think the future for PA and

all the other horrible arthritis diseases probably is using these drugs, but

they just haven't worked the bugs out for everyone. I just think some of us

are allergic to them, but as long as you watch for the side effects, you

should be fine. Let me know if you feel better or how you do once you first

use them. I really thought both Humira and Enbrel were working before I had

to stop them. They both bothered my lungs and caused my edema to go through

the roof. All we can do is be careful, read up on side effects, and hope

they never happen to us. I think we have to keep trying what ever we can to

feel better. I was really scared to try Arava since so many of the other

drugs have made me so sick, but I've felt so much better since I've been on

it. I'm exhausted today and I even canceled my regular doctor visit today.

I just didn't feel like I could face another doctor and my legs were swollen

I think from the long car ride. I'll be back to my old self in a few days.

Thanks again Sue, I was almost afraid to post how bad the experience was

since they have such a great reputation. You start to think that no one

will believe you or that you are the one with the " problem "

personality...lol. Thanks for making me feel normal..whatever that is

anymore. Good luck on Enbrel. Love, Fran

----Original Message-----

From: susieesue [mailto:susieesue@...]

Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:23 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a

Nightmare!

--

Hi Fran,

Sorry about your experience at that Cleveland Clinic; do Drs. even

think before they speak?!! I went to my Ortho. Dr. he is suppose to

be the BEST in the state of Michigan and this visit he told me to go

ahead and start Enbrel before my total hip surgery and a month before

he had said he didn't want the Rheumy or Derm. Dr. to start me on it

because of my immune system and getting ready for a surgery!! I

looked at him in disbelief because of his change with his

descision!! I've been waiting all these months to start Enbrel!! He

is the one that gives me a hard time with my pain medication and my

Rheumy doesn't want to prescribe pain medication because he thinks my

Ortho. Dr. is!! Finally my Derm. DR. said enough is enough and went

ahead and prescribed Enbrel for me, I'm waiting for the insurance to

okay it. I have had some real winners as Drs., the worse Dr. I have

gone to was down in Toledo, Ohio at a Medical College of Ohio

hospital he had me in tears and I know he was showing off to his

intern because it is suppose to be a learning hospital. He ask me

why I was there-my fingers in my hands I couln't bend I could barely

walk without my walker/wheelchair. He made me climb on " the table "

without any assistance. He was so hateful and the hospital was so

dirty. It was terrible-I really feel for you.

God Bless, Sue.

[Guest guest]

Dear Annie, Thanks for your sweet words. You made me feel loved again and

when I left that place that's the last thing I was thinking about. I really

did hesitate to tell everyone just how bad it was, but now I realize that

everyone knows me well enough in this group to understand I couldn't begin

to make that sort of thing up. I normally get along with everyone, but that

was a nightmare. I'm just glad it's over with and maybe in time I'll take

on Mayo's, but right now that seems pretty overwhelming too. I think I'll

stay where I am and count my blessings for awhile longer...lol. Thanks

again for being so sweet. I hope you are feeling better and your doggies

are doing fine. Love, Fran---Original Message-----

From: Annie [mailto:annie@...]

Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:34 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a

Nightmare!

Dear sweet, wonderful Fran, God Bless You for enduring such a horrific

experience. I am sooooo sorry you had to go thru such an event. The Dr's you

saw are an embarrassment to valid medical persons all over the world.

ONE day, people will understand, will have good solutions, and at the very

least some compassion.

be well, know you are cared about.

love annie and the pugherd

[Guest guest]

Dear Marti, Thanks for your wonderful email. It was a nightmare, but your

hugs came through loud and clear. It did help to have my daughter in there

with me. I think she was just as shocked as I was though because normally

she isn't one to sit back and take any sort of abuse. We were both just

blown away and the experience didn't really last that long, it just seems

like it now looking back on it.

Compassion is something I guess I normally assume a doctor will have or they

wouldn't be in the medical field to begin with. I can understand how anyone

can have a bad day, but not all 3 doctors at the same time. Plus they

didn't seem that unhappy, just mad at me for taking up their time. Well

life goes on and I'm going to be fine. Like I " ve said before my doctors

here look a lot nicer to me now and really they have always been nice. You

sort of just expect that from a doctor, or at least I do.

What gets me the most is one of the nurses told me that they go through a

vigorous screening method before they hire any of their doctors. I can't

imagine what the ones were like who got away...lol. Take care and hope you

are feeling well. love, Fran

[ ] Re: To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a

Nightmare!

Oh Fran,

I am SO sorry you had such a horrible experience. I know you had your

hopes up that they might be able to help you there. HUGS and more HUGS

Glad you will write a letter complaining about the rheum. And glad

you had a witness in the room with you. I had a similar experiece

with a well respected rheum and it took me awhile to get over it. It

does make you feel violated.

Any med school admission directors out there? I think we need to add

compassion the list of needed requirements for entrance.

-

You are so valuable to us,

Marti

[Guest guest]

Dear Janet, thanks for the great email. I hope you have a wonderful cruise

and don't run into many storms. Most of those big ships just steer right

around the storms anyway. You may end up in South America, but they will

keep you safe. I'll write you more when you get back. Take care and have

fun. Love, Fran PS I haven't given up on the Mayo clinic yet.

Re: [ ] To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a

Nightmare!

Fran,

I am so sorry that you had to go through such a horrible experience. I'm

sure you feel violated and angry that these doctors are so ignorant. I

also

have spoken to several different doctors and the majority say not to worry

about the Vioxx and then the cardiologist told me not to take it. I tried

to

stop but the pain got to be too much. It'a really a shame when the

patient has

more knowledge then the physician which happens to me in most cases.

Don't give up because there has to be some better doctors out there

somewhere. I know one of our patients in the doctor's office I worked

in has the

same condition that you have (erythromelegia) and she went to the Mayo

clinic

in Rochester, Minn. She was very happy there since nobody here in NY

could

help her. You might consider this.

I don't think I will be online for a few weeks since I am going to FLorida

and then a cruise with my sister. I wish everyone here painfree days and

will

be post when I get back. That is if a hurricaine doesn't get me.

Janet

[Guest guest]

Dear , thanks for the great email. I do plan on writing someone

about the lousy service. Mainly I'm the most upset over the rheumatologist

and how painful his exam was. There simply is no reason for that. I've

seen a lot of doctors over the years and no one has ever hurt me like that.

I really think a normal person would have been in pain after his exam.

I sure feel sorry for you having to start over and look for new doctors. It

is such a nightmare trying to find someone who understands about pain

control and who can grasp the idea that you aren't a addict simply because

you use narcotics. I tried to tell these doctors that there are lots of

times I even forget to take my pain pills, but of course, their minds were

made up. I couldn't have said anything to make them happy at that point. I

hope you find someone who is understanding and who will just continue on

with your medication. I know the pain organizations on the internet list a

lot of the " better " pain doctors in all the states. You might want to look

up under the American Academy of Pain Management, at least once you know

where you are going to be stationed. I know my pain doctor is listed there

and he is a wonderful doctor as far as I'm concerned. Pain.com is another

good site and so is the American Pain society. There are many listed on the

internet since I think so many people end up desperate and search out help

at night on line.

Anyway, let me know how the move goes and I hope you find a great doctor who

won't give you any problems with pain medication. Take care and I hope the

stress lets up soon. Love, Fran

Re: [ ] To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a

Nightmare!

Geez Fran, how awful for you. Are you going to contact anyone about your

rude treatment? If you do I would definitely try to get some pics of those

bruises they put on you to prove how rough they were on you. I just hate it

when docs are such A$$ Holes!!! You are much more patient than I would have

been. If I was talked to like that my Sicilian blood would have started

boiling and I would have let them have a piece of my mind. I'm getting

nervous myself as my husband, who is active duty Army, is going to get

notified on Thursday as to where and when we are moving again. It probably

will be San , TX. and it may be very soon, so just as I completed my

stint at pain management and the doc was getting ready to transfer me back

to my primary doc for med checks I'm going to have to find all new doctors

in Texas and possibly deal with being judged as a " narcotics addict " once

again. (Sigh) Reading your experience is hitting way too close to home as

I have had similar nightmare experiences trying to find good docs. Well,

I'm glad that you at least got to spend some time with your family and have

a little fun even though you were hurting some. I hope you feel better

soon.

Axelrod

[Guest guest]

Fran,

Thanks so very much for the tips on how to find a good pain management doc in

other states, I really appreciate it. I will definitely use it when me get the

info about the move to try to set up docs to see long before we actually get

there since it usually takes a while to get an appointment. I am praying that

my docs here in Minnesota will be helpful in transitioning me to another state.

Axelrod

Re: [ ] To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a

Nightmare!

Geez Fran, how awful for you. Are you going to contact anyone about your

rude treatment? If you do I would definitely try to get some pics of those

bruises they put on you to prove how rough they were on you. I just hate it

when docs are such A$$ Holes!!! You are much more patient than I would have

been. If I was talked to like that my Sicilian blood would have started

boiling and I would have let them have a piece of my mind. I'm getting

nervous myself as my husband, who is active duty Army, is going to get

notified on Thursday as to where and when we are moving again. It probably

will be San , TX. and it may be very soon, so just as I completed my

stint at pain management and the doc was getting ready to transfer me back

to my primary doc for med checks I'm going to have to find all new doctors

in Texas and possibly deal with being judged as a " narcotics addict " once

again. (Sigh) Reading your experience is hitting way too close to home as

I have had similar nightmare experiences trying to find good docs. Well,

I'm glad that you at least got to spend some time with your family and have

a little fun even though you were hurting some. I hope you feel better

soon.

Axelrod

[Guest guest]

-Hi Janet,

Have a good trip! or..umm...vacation...don't want to jinx us..

Marti

-- In , fam24@a... wrote:

> Fran,

>

> I am so sorry that you had to go through such a horrible

experience. I'm

> sure you feel violated and angry that these doctors are so

ignorant. I also

> have spoken to several different doctors and the majority say not

to worry

> about the Vioxx and then the cardiologist told me not to take it.

I tried to

> stop but the pain got to be too much. It'a really a shame when

the patient has

> more knowledge then the physician which happens to me in most

cases.

> Don't give up because there has to be some better doctors out

there

> somewhere. I know one of our patients in the doctor's office I

worked in has the

> same condition that you have (erythromelegia) and she went to the

Mayo clinic

> in Rochester, Minn. She was very happy there since nobody here in

NY could

> help her. You might consider this.

> I don't think I will be online for a few weeks since I am going to

FLorida

> and then a cruise with my sister. I wish everyone here painfree

days and will

> be post when I get back. That is if a hurricaine doesn't get me.

> Janet

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-

PS I haven't given up on the Mayo clinic yet.

>

Hi Fran,

I met a delightful female derm at mayo in Rochester, MN. she was in

charge of a study I did there. I have also seen a rheum there who

sees almost exclusively pa people. I thouht he did a very good job

with me. there's hope

Mayo has strict rules as to how their physicians should treat

patients and a way to lodge a complaint if you feel hassled or abused

in any way. I almost wanted to cry with relif when I went there.

Everyone was so kind and respectful and sadly I was not used to that.

I can provide their names when you are ready. Iwouldn't blae you if

you that were the last thing on you " to do " list.

Marti

Re: [ ] To Everybody, The Cleveland

Clinic..a

> Nightmare!

>

>

> Fran,

>

> I am so sorry that you had to go through such a horrible

experience. I'm

> sure you feel violated and angry that these doctors are so

ignorant. I

> also

> have spoken to several different doctors and the majority say not

to worry

> about the Vioxx and then the cardiologist told me not to take

it. I tried

> to

> stop but the pain got to be too much. It'a really a shame when

the

> patient has

> more knowledge then the physician which happens to me in most

cases.

> Don't give up because there has to be some better doctors out

there

> somewhere. I know one of our patients in the doctor's office I

worked

> in has the

> same condition that you have (erythromelegia) and she went to

the Mayo

> clinic

> in Rochester, Minn. She was very happy there since nobody here

in NY

> could

> help her. You might consider this.

> I don't think I will be online for a few weeks since I am going

to FLorida

> and then a cruise with my sister. I wish everyone here painfree

days and

> will

> be post when I get back. That is if a hurricaine doesn't get

me.

> Janet

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/20/04 9:07:55 PM GMT Daylight Time, fran@...

writes:

What gets me the most is one of the nurses told me that they go through a

vigorous screening method before they hire any of their doctors. I can't

imagine what the ones were like who got away...lol.

Hi Fran,

I contacted the Cleveland clinic you attended and asked for the names of the

doctors that there screening method had picked up in the past. There was

actually quite a few names but the only ones I recognised were, Dr Jeckle, Dr

enstein and Dr Crippen so just count your lucky stars! Lol

Take care,

[Guest guest]

Fran,

I'm so sorry that your trip to the Cleveland Clinic was so awful. I hope

you DO follow-up with letters of complaint as no doctor has the right to treat

patients with so little regard for their feelings and pain. You could also

file a complaint with the State licensing board. We often refer to the " fight

against disease " and sadly you faced another battle in the war. Your

indominatable spirit, loving nature, strong family ties and keen sense of humor

will see you through this latest debacle. There is light at the end of this

for

you. By sharing your experience with all of us you have helped educate us

and that is at least something good that has come out of this awful

experience. You are often in my thoughts and prayers, but especially so now.

Kathy F.

[Guest guest]

Dear Marti, You are right that right now it seems like the last thing on my

mind, but I know unless Arava continues to help me improve I'm going to have

to keep seeking answers. Do I want to ignore it and just forget the whole

thing? You can bet on it, but somehow I don't think I can really do that

to myself. I do need some time to " lick my wounds " I guess you could say,

but like I've said before this wasn't a big deal in the long run. I've

dealt with ignorance before, it's just always shocking when it comes from

educated people.

Like the Cleveland Clinic, I've only heard good things from Mayos. In fact,

I would say more people told me to go there than to try the Cleveland

Clinic. Plus my own doctors advised me to go to Cleveland in Ohio rather

than the Florida branch because they had heard things as well. But I guess

I'm stubborn, but mainly my health insurance paid for the Cleveland Clinic

basically 100% where at Mayos I'm looking at only 70%. I also figured that

a local hospital only 4 hours away would be easier on me and my family than

flying to another state. Now I realize I was wrong, but I guess I had to go

to find out.

Save those names for me Marti, because I know I " m going to need them in the

future. I keep telling myself there is hope and to ignore the " advice " I

was given at the Clinic. It's amazing how sometimes your mind wants to go

to the negative when it hears it and you really do have to force yourself to

look for the positive in things at times. Feeling down about myself only

will make me feel worse in everyway, so I guess that's what I'm fighting

right now. But I'll go to Mayos in the future, I " m sure of it. Thanks for

being so supportive and everyone has been so great. As usual, this group

never lets me down, they only bring me up. Take care and thanks for being

there. Love, Fran

[ ] Re: To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a

Nightmare!

-

PS I haven't given up on the Mayo clinic yet.

>

Hi Fran,

I met a delightful female derm at mayo in Rochester, MN. she was in

charge of a study I did there. I have also seen a rheum there who

sees almost exclusively pa people. I thouht he did a very good job

with me. there's hope

Mayo has strict rules as to how their physicians should treat

patients and a way to lodge a complaint if you feel hassled or abused

in any way. I almost wanted to cry with relif when I went there.

Everyone was so kind and respectful and sadly I was not used to that.

I can provide their names when you are ready. Iwouldn't blae you if

you that were the last thing on you " to do " list.

Marti

[Guest guest]

Dear , I can always count on you to make me smile!! It's hard to

believe that Dr. Jeckle and Dr. enstein didn't make the cut though,

because I was sure I saw both of them on my visit...lol.

As usual, the best way to deal with a bad situation is to find the humor

there and if you look hard enough it's always hiding in there somewhere. My

daughter and I went out to dinner after it was all over that night and ended

up at a crab house. We actually used hammers to smash the crabs on the

tables and we had a great time pretending it was the doctor's faces each

time we raised the hammers...lol. So I have to say I was laughing about an

hour after it was all over with.

As usual, this group's response has been overwhelming and so supportive. We

really do have a great group, even though we keep saying it and everyone is

going to think we are stuck on ourselves...lol. Thanks again. Love, Fran

Re: [ ] Re: To Everybody, The Cleveland

Clinic..a Nightmare!

In a message dated 9/20/04 9:07:55 PM GMT Daylight Time, fran@...

writes:

What gets me the most is one of the nurses told me that they go through

a

vigorous screening method before they hire any of their doctors. I can't

imagine what the ones were like who got away...lol.

Hi Fran,

I contacted the Cleveland clinic you attended and asked for the names of

the

doctors that there screening method had picked up in the past. There was

actually quite a few names but the only ones I recognised were, Dr

Jeckle, Dr

enstein and Dr Crippen so just count your lucky stars! Lol

Take care,

[Guest guest]

Dear Kathy, Just everyone's responses and support has helped more than

you'll ever know. It was a bad experience, but I know people have gone

through much worse. It was just unexpected and that's always hard to deal

with when it's so negative. You are right about the " fight against disease "

and how frustrating it can be at times. I guess we expect the doctors to be

on our side in our battle, not one of the major problems. Like I've said

before, it has made me realized just how special my current doctors are and

how they do so much to make you feel better every time I do see them. It's

easy to get mad at your doctor when you feel like you aren't getting better

or not getting better fast enough, so this really opened my eyes.

I don't want everyone to give up on future trips to clinics or even to the

Cleveland Clinic. I have real reservations about the Florida clinic, but

maybe I had a real unusual experience, you never know. I'll try Mayo's next

when I have to strength to face it all again. In the meantime, I'm going

back to my normal routine and am going to continue to get well. Thanks for

your support Kathy and I really can't tell you how much it has helped me in

the past few days. Take care, Love, Fran

Re: [ ] To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a

Nightmare!

Fran,

I'm so sorry that your trip to the Cleveland Clinic was so awful. I hope

you DO follow-up with letters of complaint as no doctor has the right to

treat

patients with so little regard for their feelings and pain. You could

also

file a complaint with the State licensing board. We often refer to the

" fight

against disease " and sadly you faced another battle in the war. Your

indominatable spirit, loving nature, strong family ties and keen sense of

humor

will see you through this latest debacle. There is light at the end of

this for

you. By sharing your experience with all of us you have helped educate

us

and that is at least something good that has come out of this awful

experience. You are often in my thoughts and prayers, but especially so

now.

Kathy F.

[Guest guest]

Dear Jane, I think you are so right that we do hold these doctors in high

esteem. (It's for sure they feel that way about themselves...lol.) That's

the main reason it's hard to fight their " advice " or ignore their

suggestions. I don't think I've ever felt like so many of my health

problems were my fault before seeing them. They basically blamed all my

problems on stress, bad medication, poor exercise, weight gain, and I guess

my weak mind...lol. It was amazing how fast they made judgments after only

seeing me for 5 minutes. They never got to know me or even tried to

understand my history or how all this came to happen.

My daughter brought up a good point though and said that they didn't stop

to consider what effect their words could have on someone who was in a

depressed state. I don't really suffer from depression, but I do take

anti-depressants to help with my low sereotoin levels. So as far as they

were concerned, I could have been dealing with major depression and their

uncaring and painful remarks could have been the thing that pushed someone

over the edge.

Luckily, I'm not like that, but it scares me to think of someone who is in a

fragile state trying to deal with those three doctors and their lousy

bedside manner. Hopefully, that won't happen, but it is a scary thought.

Thanks again for being such a supportive group and your kind words mean so

much. Take care and hopefully the next time I post something it will be

more positive. Love, Fran

----Original Message-----

From: jane karsten [mailto:janekarsten@...]

Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:54 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a

Nightmare!

Dear Fran:

Just now reading your post and I feel so bad for you.

What a horrible experience to be devalued by rude,

incompetent so-called human beings. We tend to hold

these docs in such high esteem considering their years

of education, but those three stooges are giving all

good doctors and clinics a bad name! It makes me so

angry that pain isn't considered " real " if the source

of it isn't glaringly obvious. Shame, shame on the

Cleveland Clinic.

Jane

[Guest guest]

--Hi Fran,

Quetioning yourself and feeling down is bound to happen after an

experience like yours. That is one reason these types of docs are so

toxic, as the saying goes. Their approach sure doesn't promote

healing. I once started to question myself and almost felt crazy

after 5 docs told me the fusion in my neck was congenital and not

relate to pa. Hello...it wasn't there the last time they xrayed. I

went to Mayo after that and was scared of another big let down but

the doc put the xray up and explained it was part of pa spondylitis.

when I mentioned o a doc that it had taken 5 docs to get a correct

diagnoses(bad judgement on my part to mention it)they accused me o

being a doctor hopper and said I probably burned the other ones out.

It MUST be my fault...irritating...

So...If Larry or Moe develop this stuff(pa) we'll tell them they

don't need pain pills because Curly said looking at a sunset produced

the same effect as morphine...LOL!

One thing about Mayos...their pain cinic is designed to get people

OFF pain meds. I think they take a conserative route on the meds in

that way. I didn't get into any trouble with the docs I saw though.

it wasn't why I was there and they specifically asked...what would

you like us to do for you....then they did it.

Hang in...they are the clueless ones..not you,

Marti

- In , " Fran Mishler " <fran@m...>

wrote:

> Dear Marti, You are right that right now it seems like the last

thing on my

> mind, but I know unless Arava continues to help me improve I'm

going to have

> to keep seeking answers. Do I want to ignore it and just forget

the whole

> thing? You can bet on it, but somehow I don't think I can really

do that

> to myself. I do need some time to " lick my wounds " I guess you

could say,

> but like I've said before this wasn't a big deal in the long run.

I've

> dealt with ignorance before, it's just always shocking when it

comes from

> educated people.

>

> Like the Cleveland Clinic, I've only heard good things from Mayos.

In fact,

> I would say more people told me to go there than to try the

Cleveland

> Clinic. Plus my own doctors advised me to go to Cleveland in Ohio

rather

> than the Florida branch because they had heard things as well. But

I guess

> I'm stubborn, but mainly my health insurance paid for the Cleveland

Clinic

> basically 100% where at Mayos I'm looking at only 70%. I also

figured that

> a local hospital only 4 hours away would be easier on me and my

family than

> flying to another state. Now I realize I was wrong, but I guess I

had to go

> to find out.

>

> Save those names for me Marti, because I know I " m going to need

them in the

> future. I keep telling myself there is hope and to ignore

the " advice " I

> was given at the Clinic. It's amazing how sometimes your mind

wants to go

> to the negative when it hears it and you really do have to force

yourself to

> look for the positive in things at times. Feeling down about

myself only

> will make me feel worse in everyway, so I guess that's what I'm

fighting

> right now. But I'll go to Mayos in the future, I " m sure of it.

Thanks for

> being so supportive and everyone has been so great. As usual, this

group

> never lets me down, they only bring me up. Take care and thanks

for being

> there. Love, Fran

> [ ] Re: To Everybody, The Cleveland

Clinic..a

> Nightmare!

>

>

> -

>

> PS I haven't given up on the Mayo clinic yet.

> >

> Hi Fran,

>

> I met a delightful female derm at mayo in Rochester, MN. she was

in

> charge of a study I did there. I have also seen a rheum there who

> sees almost exclusively pa people. I thouht he did a very good

job

> with me. there's hope

>

> Mayo has strict rules as to how their physicians should treat

> patients and a way to lodge a complaint if you feel hassled or

abused

> in any way. I almost wanted to cry with relif when I went there.

> Everyone was so kind and respectful and sadly I was not used to

that.

>

> I can provide their names when you are ready. Iwouldn't blae you

if

> you that were the last thing on you " to do " list.

>

> Marti

[Guest guest]

Dear Marti, You are so right about how their " expert " advice does affect

you. I've always thought I was a pretty together person who could handle a

personal attack pretty well, but I have to say this has bothered me more

than I ever thought it would. Not that I ever thought the visit would end

this way...

As far as the pain meds go, I've heard that about Mayo's pain clinic too.

it's so sad when you think they could actually be helping people with their

pain instead of ways to unhook people who don't need to be unhooked. I

realize with narcotic drugs you take a real risk of addiction or dependence

on them. In fact, the dependence is almost unavoidable, but the doctors I

saw couldn't seem to understand that life isn't always worth living when you

are in chronic horrible pain. What I went through with my jaw and still do

from time to time, I wouldn't wish on anyone, not even the three jerks from

the Cleveland Clinic. It was unrelenting facial pain with spasms running

across my face and jaw 24/7. Nothing was coming close to stopping the pain

or even slowing it down. My life wasn't worth living that way and I know

for a fact I never would have made it without pain management and all they

did for me then. It's not like we didn't try other things beside narcotics.

I went through 4 extremely painful stellate ganglion blocks, which consisted

of a 6 inch needle going in through the front of my neck into my spinal

cord. Believe me you have to be desperate for the pain to stop to attempt

one of these, especially after the first one...lol. But of course, I never

got a chance to tell them any of that, not that it would have mattered.

They did ask me at the end of the appointments what I wanted them to do, but

at that point I was so disgusted I just said " I don't want anything from

you. " . I don't think either one of those jerks even realized how upset and

frustrated I was with them. I really don't think it would have mattered to

them either. I don't know if a complaint letter will make any difference or

not, but I guess I have to write one or I'll feel like I'm letting other

people walk in without a clue.

Thanks Marti, for being so supportive. The emails from everyone have been

so great and have helped me more than anything else since all this happened.

Last night I was upset again and couldn't sleep, I mainly think the pain in

my wrist was getting me down, but it's easy to let it all come back at night

when your defenses are down. All I have to do is re read all your emails

and I feel better immediately. Take care and I hope someday I can repay

everyone for all their kindness and prayers. Love, Fran

[ ] Re: To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a

Nightmare!

--Hi Fran,

Quetioning yourself and feeling down is bound to happen after an

experience like yours. That is one reason these types of docs are so

toxic, as the saying goes. Their approach sure doesn't promote

healing. I once started to question myself and almost felt crazy

after 5 docs told me the fusion in my neck was congenital and not

relate to pa. Hello...it wasn't there the last time they xrayed. I

went to Mayo after that and was scared of another big let down but

the doc put the xray up and explained it was part of pa spondylitis.

when I mentioned o a doc that it had taken 5 docs to get a correct

diagnoses(bad judgement on my part to mention it)they accused me o

being a doctor hopper and said I probably burned the other ones out.

It MUST be my fault...irritating...

So...If Larry or Moe develop this stuff(pa) we'll tell them they

don't need pain pills because Curly said looking at a sunset produced

the same effect as morphine...LOL!

One thing about Mayos...their pain cinic is designed to get people

OFF pain meds. I think they take a conserative route on the meds in

that way. I didn't get into any trouble with the docs I saw though.

it wasn't why I was there and they specifically asked...what would

you like us to do for you....then they did it.

Hang in...they are the clueless ones..not you,

Marti

[Guest guest]

Dear Fran

I can't believe you managed to stay the whole appointment. Wow!!!

I can see myself in the situation just thinking " its got to get

better " ... because it can't possibly get worse.

I think it is so kewl that you were able to share your nightmare with

all of us... and stayed for the whole visiti... so that you could

give us a real picture of the whole scenario so none of the rest of

us will fall prey to those monsters who call themselves doctors.

When I go to see my rheumy... (who is 4 hours away) and who is fairly

gentle... I feel a lot of pain too and feel the effects for a few

days... so I can't imagine what you must have gone through. Its

definitely unforgiveable... the treatment you received... and I

encourage you to write some sort of complaint for sure.

Also, the yes no answer BS... is incredible... but I too have

experienced that and on reflecting believe it is because I am one

hundred pounds overweight. I went to a local Dr. in the spring and

had that experience. I was thinking if I could see someone closer

rather than drive the 4 hours I would save money and time but it was

a total waste of my time and basically I felt she was not interested

in doing a thing for me. My reason for seeing her was because my

feet were so very bad and she didn't even examine them. I had to

mention it three times and then again at the end of the

visit... " would you take a look at my ankles " so she reluctantly

did. Maybe she is afraid of feet ;-) hehehe She then diagnosed me

as having fibromyalgia... which my real rheumy four hours away says I

absolutely don't suffer from ... and I believe her as she has helped

me immensely in the treatments she has given me. Although, I know I

may have some symptoms of fibro... the meds won't work on fibro...

and the meds do... so it seems pretty obvious that the PA is the

culprit... Also it shows on x-ray... the inflammation.

The funny thing is that both my doctor and his locum replacement

liked this local dr and their patients have too so I can only guess

that because I am overweight she totally disregarded my complaints.

Her advice was that i do aerobic type exercise 3x 30 mins a week.

You can imagine hearing that when you can hardly even walk!!!

Anyways... enough venting from me. My experiences are like not even

close to the horrible stuff you endured.

I hope you had a drink with your daughter after that!!! Or several

even.

Take care,

Thanks for sharing, HUGS, Rosee

[Guest guest]

Dear Rosee,

Looking back on it, I don't know how I made it either. Having my daughter

there helped since she basically thought I should make it to the last

appointment, when I was ready to leave after the first two. She kept hoping

like I did that one of these doctors were going to help me. She had taken

off work two times in a row and we all had our hopes on this visit since it

took almost 6 months to get in. (Looking back on it, the Internist was the

only one who had a waiting list, the other two were pretty free...I guess

that's easy to see why now.)

I agree with you that some doctors can treat overweight people really badly.

Since I've gained weight from being on prednisone for the past 3 years, I

guess I've noticed it more and it's just another reason for someone not to

like you. It seems crazy to me though since it's only a medical condition.

I was upset last night again and I tell you this seems to hit me when I'm

tired and worn down. Anyway, I wrote my daughter an email and asked her if

I was making a bigger deal out of all of this than what it seemed to her,

but she said, " No Way. " She felt like they were jerks from the minute we

walked in the door. I was thinking that even if I can't get off the

prednisone completely (several doctors have told me it might not be

possible), and if I can't exercise (like you mentioned), or lose weight

(like the 3 stooges, as calls them, reminded me of every 5 minutes or

so...lol) and if I can't stop the pain medication (and go watch the

sunset...lol) that somehow I still have to live and find a life with what I

have. Those doctors made me feel like if I couldn't do all of those things

and do them immediately I might as well just roll over and die. It was

unreal. They don't seem to understand that you have to be happy with

yourself regardless of your looks, even if you aren't happy with certain

conditions. Otherwise, you are just miserable and sick on top of it all and

being sick is enough for me. I fight hard every day to not be sad or

depressed and I refuse to let three jerks that really know nothing about me,

ruin the rest of my life or even the next few months. I'm still trying to

do the right thing, but I was before as well, they just refused to listen to

me.

I think I would have asked your doctor who didn't want to look at your feet

if she had a problem with toes or something..lol. How else are they

supposed to examine the joint if they don't look at your foot? Maybe you

caught her on a bad day since other people have told you they liked her.

It's just hard to tell sometimes. I do know that out of all the doctors

I've seen in my life the group of rheumatologists take the cake for being

the most closed minded and arrogant. They must all start out with

Arrogant101 in college or something. Anyway, those 3 I saw, must have

gotten straight A's in that course.

Well my left wrist and fingers are so bad tonight that they are almost

totally numb or I would write more. You would think that would be a good

thing, but it still manages to hurt. I guess I'm going to have to break

down and go to the doctor...heaven forbid. I was hoping not to see another

one for some time...Thanks for writing Rosee and I hope you feel better

soon. Hang in there and don't let them get you down. Love, Fran

[ ] Re: To Everybody, The Cleveland Clinic..a

Nightmare!

Dear Fran

I can't believe you managed to stay the whole appointment. Wow!!!

I can see myself in the situation just thinking " its got to get

better " ... because it can't possibly get worse.

I think it is so kewl that you were able to share your nightmare with

all of us... and stayed for the whole visiti... so that you could

give us a real picture of the whole scenario so none of the rest of

us will fall prey to those monsters who call themselves doctors.

When I go to see my rheumy... (who is 4 hours away) and who is fairly

gentle... I feel a lot of pain too and feel the effects for a few

days... so I can't imagine what you must have gone through. Its

definitely unforgiveable... the treatment you received... and I

encourage you to write some sort of complaint for sure.

Also, the yes no answer BS... is incredible... but I too have

experienced that and on reflecting believe it is because I am one

hundred pounds overweight. I went to a local Dr. in the spring and

had that experience. I was thinking if I could see someone closer

rather than drive the 4 hours I would save money and time but it was

a total waste of my time and basically I felt she was not interested

in doing a thing for me. My reason for seeing her was because my

feet were so very bad and she didn't even examine them. I had to

mention it three times and then again at the end of the

visit... " would you take a look at my ankles " so she reluctantly

did. Maybe she is afraid of feet ;-) hehehe She then diagnosed me

as having fibromyalgia... which my real rheumy four hours away says I

absolutely don't suffer from ... and I believe her as she has helped

me immensely in the treatments she has given me. Although, I know I

may have some symptoms of fibro... the meds won't work on fibro...

and the meds do... so it seems pretty obvious that the PA is the

culprit... Also it shows on x-ray... the inflammation.

The funny thing is that both my doctor and his locum replacement

liked this local dr and their patients have too so I can only guess

that because I am overweight she totally disregarded my complaints.

Her advice was that i do aerobic type exercise 3x 30 mins a week.

You can imagine hearing that when you can hardly even walk!!!

Anyways... enough venting from me. My experiences are like not even

close to the horrible stuff you endured.

I hope you had a drink with your daughter after that!!! Or several

even.

Take care,

Thanks for sharing, HUGS, Rosee

[Guest guest]

-Hi Fran,

No kidding you'd have to be in pain to try the ganglion block you

mentioned ! It sounds horrid. yes...I also find I am more vulnerable

in all ways when in more pain. Things get me down much easier.

I had a friend go through mayo's pain clinic. She didn't really like

it..a lot of it was geared to muscle and fibro pain and she was

suffering from chronic pancreatitis. It did end up helping her though

because she was so addicted to so many meds... She had not had the

good pain management docs that you had. They were able to wean her

off of some and when she started over with the pain meds she was more

cautious and knowledgeabe about what to try.

I wish the medical controversies didn't get so polorized. like...FOR

or AGAINST narcotics.....each person is different and there should be

a middle ground. Cookie cutter approaches to medical care is a common

conmplaint I hear. But really...whomever told that doc that lookng at

a sunset produced the same effect as morphine was WAY off LOLOL!

Love,

Marti

-- In , " Fran Mishler " <fran@m...>

wrote:

> Dear Marti, You are so right about how their " expert " advice does

affect

> you. I've always thought I was a pretty together person who could

handle a

> personal attack pretty well, but I have to say this has bothered me

more

> than I ever thought it would. Not that I ever thought the visit

would end

> this way...

>

> As far as the pain meds go, I've heard that about Mayo's pain

clinic too.

> it's so sad when you think they could actually be helping people

with their

> pain instead of ways to unhook people who don't need to be

unhooked. I

> realize with narcotic drugs you take a real risk of addiction or

dependence

> on them. In fact, the dependence is almost unavoidable, but the

doctors I

> saw couldn't seem to understand that life isn't always worth living

when you

> are in chronic horrible pain. What I went through with my jaw and

still do

> from time to time, I wouldn't wish on anyone, not even the three

jerks from

> the Cleveland Clinic. It was unrelenting facial pain with spasms

running

> across my face and jaw 24/7. Nothing was coming close to stopping

the pain

> or even slowing it down. My life wasn't worth living that way and

I know

> for a fact I never would have made it without pain management and

all they

> did for me then. It's not like we didn't try other things beside

narcotics.

> I went through 4 extremely painful stellate ganglion blocks, which

consisted

> of a 6 inch needle going in through the front of my neck into my

spinal

> cord. Believe me you have to be desperate for the pain to stop to

attempt

> one of these, especially after the first one...lol. But of course,

I never

> got a chance to tell them any of that, not that it would have

mattered.

>

> They did ask me at the end of the appointments what I wanted them

to do, but

> at that point I was so disgusted I just said " I don't want anything

from

> you. " . I don't think either one of those jerks even realized how

upset and

> frustrated I was with them. I really don't think it would have

mattered to

> them either. I don't know if a complaint letter will make any

difference or

> not, but I guess I have to write one or I'll feel like I'm letting

other

> people walk in without a clue.

>

> Thanks Marti, for being so supportive. The emails from everyone

have been

> so great and have helped me more than anything else since all this

happened.

> Last night I was upset again and couldn't sleep, I mainly think the

pain in

> my wrist was getting me down, but it's easy to let it all come back

at night

> when your defenses are down. All I have to do is re read all your

emails

> and I feel better immediately. Take care and I hope someday I can

repay

> everyone for all their kindness and prayers. Love, Fran

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [ ] Re: To Everybody, The Cleveland

Clinic..a

> Nightmare!

>

>

> --Hi Fran,

>

> Quetioning yourself and feeling down is bound to happen after an

> experience like yours. That is one reason these types of docs

are so

> toxic, as the saying goes. Their approach sure doesn't promote

> healing. I once started to question myself and almost felt crazy

> after 5 docs told me the fusion in my neck was congenital and not

> relate to pa. Hello...it wasn't there the last time they xrayed. I

> went to Mayo after that and was scared of another big let down but

> the doc put the xray up and explained it was part of pa

spondylitis.

> when I mentioned o a doc that it had taken 5 docs to get a correct

> diagnoses(bad judgement on my part to mention it)they accused me o

> being a doctor hopper and said I probably burned the other ones

out.

> It MUST be my fault...irritating...

>

> So...If Larry or Moe develop this stuff(pa) we'll tell them they

> don't need pain pills because Curly said looking at a sunset

produced

> the same effect as morphine...LOL!

>

> One thing about Mayos...their pain cinic is designed to get people

> OFF pain meds. I think they take a conserative route on the meds

in

> that way. I didn't get into any trouble with the docs I saw

though.

> it wasn't why I was there and they specifically asked...what would

> you like us to do for you....then they did it.

>

> Hang in...they are the clueless ones..not you,

>

> Marti