Re: Clinical depression as a result of the illness itself?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/24/2003 11:20:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, pikeur@...

writes:

> wondering if it does somehow come from the illness itself <

Theresa - I think so. I could deal with everyday life much better before the

PA. I sometimes forget things that people told me an hour or so ago. I used to

not forget ANYTHING - which drove my family crazy when I would bring up

conversations from 25 years ago

Now, it's a good day if I can remember where I'm going or what I'm supposed to

do today.

Stress (I work 40 hours at an office job) is incredibly hard to handle. On bad

work days I sometimes have to fight off the tears or go to the ladies room to

let it out a bit.

I guess a shrink might say I'm depressed. But I don't feel that way. I feel

like this is something that came on with the PA and I don't feel particularly

depressed that I have PA. Yes, it's frustrating and I've had to change my life.

But I can do that. Yes, it's painful. But I can handle that. PA isn't my whole

life. It's a small part of it that I try to take in stride.

So it's difficult to really say whether it a part of the PA or depression on

it's own in anyone's case, but my opinion of my personal occassional struggles

is that it's a part of the PA.

Hope you are feeling well today,

[Guest guest]

Do you exercise at all? I know that if I don't do some kind , be it walking, or

something else, I don't think as clearly. Also, I find that different meds do

different things to me mentally.

[ ] Clinical depression as a result of the illness

itself?

Hi y'all!

I've been wondering for years, really, wether it is possible to

become depressed because of some chemical effect of the illness

itself?

I have had PS for at least 6 years, in growing severity, and as it

has worsened, so has a sort of depression. I will venture to

describe...

I don't feel sad, apathic or like killing myself. Rather I feel my

general reasoning is obscured, I feel slow mentally, I get nervous

and almost hysterical when having alot to do, and things that I don't

like to do. I have heard of the expression Cognitive Fog, and I feel

it applies to me. I take failure very hard. I wake at 3 every morning

with a gasp feeling like I have missed something very important, sort

of in panic. And very tired all the same time.

I know that to most this does not sound like depression, but I have

been in contact with several psychiatrists that say that this can

indeed be signs that the levels of serotonin and nor-adrenalin are in

upheval. I have verified this in textbooks on the subject.

Of course I have reasons to get depressed, being ill and all, but

since I don't feel sad or suicidal or anything like that, I'm

wondering if it does somehow come from the illness itself? I have

felt it ever since I first felt the joint/muscular pain, and that was

long before I knew I had a chronic disease, which my doctors say is

the reason. They have never heard of depression being linked to the

systematic illness, like I'm arguing. Have you?

Not that I try to avoid medication, I just try to figure out what to

do to avoid getting depressed for the rest of my life. Also, my anti-

depressants give horrible side-effects, so much so that I can't work

when I take them. So I really would want something else. And the docs

are thinking and thinking...

Theresa

[Guest guest]

I agree... when I am real anxious I wake up in the middle of the night,

feeling like I am having a heart attack. Thank God I can deal with it without

meds... it doesn't happen every night.

In a message dated 1/24/03 5:30:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,

costello@... writes:

> What you are experiencing sounds more like anxiety disorder. I have that in

> addition to depression. I take Paxil which takes care of both very well.

> It is terrible to live that way. Talk to a doctor soon.

> Ks Di

>

[Guest guest]

Depression IS linked to many Systemic illnesses. That has been proven. It does

change the chemical balance in your brain, and makes depression and insomnia

happen.

I don't know the exacts on it, but I know it happens. Orin, can you help here?

You always have such great info on things like this.

I can tell you that I manage my emotions through exercise. I have to break a

sweat to feel the change, but it really does help the chemical imbalance. Since

you don't want to go on meds, I would suggest that. Try low impact stuff like

walking, or lifting small weights.

Yes, this is a very real thing... no this isn't your imagination!

)

In a message dated 1/24/2003 11:20:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, pikeur@...

writes:

> I knew I had a chronic disease, which my doctors say is

> the reason. They have never heard of depression being linked to the

> systematic illness, like I'm arguing. Have you?

>

> Not that I try to avoid medication, I just try to figure out what to

> do to avoid getting depressed for the rest of my life. Also, my anti-

> depressants give horrible side-effects, so much so that I can't work

> when I take them. So I really would want something else.

> And the docs

> are thinking and thinking...

>

> Theresa

[Guest guest]

Theresa, I agree with you...I have that fog, in particular when I am really

tired or have too much to do. I feel like I just can't remember things. I

tried a ton of anti-depressants, but found that Effexor helps the best. My

rheum thinks it also helps with joint pain indirectly; she gives it to

Fibromyalgia patients...

[Guest guest]

What you are experiencing sounds more like anxiety disorder. I have that in

addition to depression. I take Paxil which takes care of both very well.

It is terrible to live that way. Talk to a doctor soon.

Ks Di

[ ] Clinical depression as a result of the illness

itself?

> Hi y'all!

>

> I've been wondering for years, really, wether it is possible to

> become depressed because of some chemical effect of the illness

> itself?

> I have had PS for at least 6 years, in growing severity, and as it

> has worsened, so has a sort of depression. I will venture to

> describe...

>

> I don't feel sad, apathic or like killing myself. Rather I feel my

> general reasoning is obscured, I feel slow mentally, I get nervous

> and almost hysterical when having alot to do, and things that I don't

> like to do. I have heard of the expression Cognitive Fog, and I feel

> it applies to me. I take failure very hard. I wake at 3 every morning

> with a gasp feeling like I have missed something very important, sort

> of in panic. And very tired all the same time.

>

> I know that to most this does not sound like depression, but I have

> been in contact with several psychiatrists that say that this can

> indeed be signs that the levels of serotonin and nor-adrenalin are in

> upheval. I have verified this in textbooks on the subject.

>

> Of course I have reasons to get depressed, being ill and all, but

> since I don't feel sad or suicidal or anything like that, I'm

> wondering if it does somehow come from the illness itself? I have

> felt it ever since I first felt the joint/muscular pain, and that was

> long before I knew I had a chronic disease, which my doctors say is

> the reason. They have never heard of depression being linked to the

> systematic illness, like I'm arguing. Have you?

>

> Not that I try to avoid medication, I just try to figure out what to

> do to avoid getting depressed for the rest of my life. Also, my anti-

> depressants give horrible side-effects, so much so that I can't work

> when I take them. So I really would want something else. And the docs

> are thinking and thinking...

>

> Theresa

>

>

>

>

>

> Please visit our Psoriatic Arthritis Group's informational web page at:

> http://www.wpunj.edu/pa/ -- created and edited by list member

aka(raharris@...).

>

> In August 2001 list member Jack aka(Cornishpro@...) began to

conduct extensive research which he publishes as the Psoriatic Arthritic

Research Newsletter monthly in our emails and digest format. Many thanks to

Jack. Back issues of the newsletter are stored on our PA webpage.

>

> Also remember that the list archives comprise a tremendous amount of

information (Over two years of messages and answers).Feel free to browse

them at your convenience.

>

> Let's hear from some of you lurkers out there! If you have a comment or

question chances are there is a person who has been around a while who can

help you out with an educated guess for an answer. If not we can at least

steer you in the right direction with a good website to go to for the

answers.

>

> Blessings and Peace,

>

> Atwood-Stack, Founder

> Alan , Web & List Editor

> Jack , Newsletter Editor

> Pat Bias, List Editor

> Ron Dotson, List Editor

> and many others who help moderate (thank you!)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You are correct about some of the symptoms being symptoms of

serotonin problems. It also sounds like you have an understanding of

the difference between a chemical induced imbalance and psychological

causes. My understanding is that often, these issues interact.

Serotonin can go down for either emotional or biological reasons and

they actually interact.

I have no specific knowledge of PA having this as a direct effect.

However, I am aware that physical activity does have a direct effect

on serotonin. I wonder if your physical activity has been reduced as

a result of the PA or P. If so, it may pay to start doing some

exercise.

> Hi y'all!

>

> I've been wondering for years, really, wether it is possible to

> become depressed because of some chemical effect of the illness

> itself?

> I have had PS for at least 6 years, in growing severity, and as it

> has worsened, so has a sort of depression. I will venture to

> describe...

>

> I don't feel sad, apathic or like killing myself. Rather I feel my

> general reasoning is obscured, I feel slow mentally, I get nervous

> and almost hysterical when having alot to do, and things that I

don't

> like to do. I have heard of the expression Cognitive Fog, and I

feel

> it applies to me. I take failure very hard. I wake at 3 every

morning

> with a gasp feeling like I have missed something very important,

sort

> of in panic. And very tired all the same time.

>

> I know that to most this does not sound like depression, but I have

> been in contact with several psychiatrists that say that this can

> indeed be signs that the levels of serotonin and nor-adrenalin are

in

> upheval. I have verified this in textbooks on the subject.

>

> Of course I have reasons to get depressed, being ill and all, but

> since I don't feel sad or suicidal or anything like that, I'm

> wondering if it does somehow come from the illness itself? I have

> felt it ever since I first felt the joint/muscular pain, and that

was

> long before I knew I had a chronic disease, which my doctors say is

> the reason. They have never heard of depression being linked to the

> systematic illness, like I'm arguing. Have you?

>

> Not that I try to avoid medication, I just try to figure out what

to

> do to avoid getting depressed for the rest of my life. Also, my

anti-

> depressants give horrible side-effects, so much so that I can't

work

> when I take them. So I really would want something else. And the

docs

> are thinking and thinking...

>

> Theresa

[Guest guest]

>> You are correct about some of the symptoms being symptoms of

serotonin problems. It also sounds like you have an understanding of

the difference between a chemical induced imbalance and psychological

causes. My understanding is that often, these issues interact.

Serotonin can go down for either emotional or biological reasons and

they actually interact.

I have no specific knowledge of PA having this as a direct effect.

However, I am aware that physical activity does have a direct effect

on serotonin. I wonder if your physical activity has been reduced as

a result of the PA or P. If so, it may pay to start doing some

exercise. <<

Hi Fred. Well, I had a feeling that there might be a physical

component in the way I feel. Everyone talks about the psychological

causes for depression. I have baggage, too, like most people, so I

would not be surprised if that contributed quite alot, Still, I feel

that the onset was " slow " just like with the PA, and I have never

felt this " fog " before, although I've had my ups and downs.

I have slowed down physically, since the serious onset of this

depression/anxiety illness, simply because of the fact that I cannot

handle to much stress. I have to go home after work, and sit/read a

book just to calm down. I have just started exercising twice a week,

and feel a little better. Still, I feel that if it is partly caused

by the PA I really should get some medicine as well.

Theresa

[Guest guest]

Clinical depression can, and most often does, result from a chemical

imbalance created by PAIN- whatever the source.

Kirsten

[Guest guest]

Hi Theresa,

Meds may help. Go to a psychiatrist, at least at first, not a

therapist or psychologist. Psychiatrists can prescribe meds.

Psychologist can not.

I don't know what baggage you are referring to, but that can be

really important for the psychiatrist or psychologist to know.

Personal experience and family history are both very important

indicators.

The exercise has to be AT LEAST 3 times a week to have much

beneficial effect. You may want to increase it.

Good luck.

>

> >> You are correct about some of the symptoms being symptoms of

> serotonin problems. It also sounds like you have an understanding

of

> the difference between a chemical induced imbalance and

psychological

> causes. My understanding is that often, these issues interact.

> Serotonin can go down for either emotional or biological reasons

and

> they actually interact.

> I have no specific knowledge of PA having this as a direct effect.

> However, I am aware that physical activity does have a direct

effect

> on serotonin. I wonder if your physical activity has been reduced

as

> a result of the PA or P. If so, it may pay to start doing some

> exercise. <<

>

> Hi Fred. Well, I had a feeling that there might be a physical

> component in the way I feel. Everyone talks about the psychological

> causes for depression. I have baggage, too, like most people, so I

> would not be surprised if that contributed quite alot, Still, I

feel

> that the onset was " slow " just like with the PA, and I have never

> felt this " fog " before, although I've had my ups and downs.

>

> I have slowed down physically, since the serious onset of this

> depression/anxiety illness, simply because of the fact that I

cannot

> handle to much stress. I have to go home after work, and sit/read a

> book just to calm down. I have just started exercising twice a

week,

> and feel a little better. Still, I feel that if it is partly caused

> by the PA I really should get some medicine as well.

>

> Theresa

[Guest guest]

I also felt slower mentally when i developed this disease.. And the

increased anxiety/panic feeling seemed to be automatic too..And the brain

fog also.. This disease does alot more then just cause pain and psoriasis.

>I take failure very hard. I wake at 3 every morning

>with a gasp feeling like I have missed something very important, sort

>of in panic. And very tired all the same time.

This is interesting.. Because i felt like this in the beggining too. I would

wake up and feel very sad like my life has passed me by and now i'm stuck

with this crappy new lifestyle.. It felt like i lost my spark and energy in

life. But i've gottin used to it over the years. And now i'm just taking it

day by day. I honestly feel like 80, rather then 27. When i wake up in the

early morning, my brain fog is so bad.. Its like my brain is sooooo tired

and cant even get out of bed.. Even if someone is ringing the doorbell.. i

just let it keep ding donging.. lol

mike

[Ed. Note: That's Ok, so do I. It's usually just a salesman trying to sell you

something anyway. ;-) Ron]

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/24/03 2:43:25 PM Central Standard Time,

pookiegut@... writes:

> Depression IS linked to many Systemic illnesses. That has been proven. It

> does change the chemical balance in your brain, and makes depression and

> insomnia happen.

>

> I don't know the exacts on it, but I know it happens. Orin, can you help

> here? You always have such great info on things like this.

>

Hi I did study this a while back and think I may have posted a link

to this type of info. Any chronic illness greatly increases ones likelhood

of experiencing depression and other mental illness. Also the depression

itself has been clinicly proven to increase ones sensitivity to pain. It may

be that the two go hand in hand to produce an ever increasing syndrome of

pain and depression. I have been through a bit of this myself and can tell

you first hand that attitude has a lot to do with the severity of symptoms.

When you are in the grips of pain from physical problems it can be difficult

to find anything to be postitive or happy about. Somehow you have to dig up

the will to say to hell with it. I will go on no matter what. Maybe a bit

slower and more carefully but it wont beat me. I still have moments when the

doubts of ever being able to enjoy life the way others do sneak in again so I

deal with them the best way I can and I always get past those moments. What

I had to do is try to stay as busy as possible to keep from dwelling on the

physical discomforts. I've had some pretty significant improvements since I

finally got some medication for the skin that made it a lot easier to think

of other things.

Sorry it took so long to respond to this. Ive been as busy as a one legged

man in a butt kickin contest. Seems that everything hits at the same time

for me. Boom or bust, when it rains it pours. I will try to get in and dig up

some info on the depression/ pain connection and post it here within the next

2 weeks or so. Orin