Re: MTX & Enbrel

May 13, 2003

There's a good article on the difference between the antibody

reactions of enbrel and remicade at:

http://www.hopkins-arthritis.com/rheumatoid/rheum_treat.html

The info. on TNF inhibitors is halfway down the page.

It does say that " Approximately 1% of patients developed

anti-etanercept antibodies but these antibodies were

non-neutralizing " . I guess that means they don't have an effect on

the potency of the drug? The article doesn't recommend taking mtx

with enbrel, but does recommend taking mtx with remicade, and is the

only article I've found that describes the auto-antibody differences

in detail between the two drugs.

I wonder if we could all get honorary MDs with all the research we

end up doing?

>

May 13, 2003

- [Ed. Note: Well that certainly seems strange to me. The purpose of

antibodies is to destroy foreign cells, or to render them

ineffective. If antibodies are formed against the Enbrel protein,

then why wouldn't the antibodies render the Enbrel ineffective just

as it does all other foreign cells - regardless of whether Enbrel is

made from human cells or not??? Ron]

Ron-

Your argument makes sense to me. My Mayo Rheumie told me that these

medications are still so new that they are operating on theories when

advising MTX or no MTX to complement them...albeit good theories

Marti

May 13, 2003

" There is not one medical abstract I've read that

recommends the use of mtx with enbrel. "

A lot of the sites I go to say Enbrel is much more

effective when used with MTX, and that most Rheumys

reccomend the 2 together.

I myself am on both. I tried easing off of the MTX,

and the pain became more severe. I am going to stick

with my Rheumys advice and stay on the MTX with

Enbrel.

REMEMBER!!!!! everyone is different. Some of us can

get away with just Celebrex or Vioxx,these people, as

far as I am concerned do not know what it is like to

have the pain I experienced!!!!!

There was no way I could have only survived off of the

lesser drugs. I was in the Emergency room 6 times in

2002, and 8 times in 2001.

So, PLEASE do not start an argument about you should

not take this whith that. We all find what works for

each of us. If you can get away with the lesser drugs

MORE POWER TO YOU!!!! I really envy you.

ME...... well my drug list is as follows:

3 - 500mg Azulfidine (1500 mg) daily

2 - 5mg Predisone (daily)

1 - 1mg Folic Acid (except MTX shot day, and day after

shot)

1 - Lecuvorin day after MTX shot

1 - 7.5 MTX 1/week

2 - Enbrel shots weekly

Then, I have high colesterol and high blood pressure.

1 - 20mg Lipitor

1 - 120mg Cardizem

If I try coming off of any of these within 1 week the

pain is almost unbareable.

FYI: Enbrel and MTX

<http://www.healthtalk.com/rain/101001/toc/treatment/dmards/01.html>

<http://arthritis.about.com/library/weekly/aa110598.htm>

just a couple.

Thanks,

=====

in Atlanta, GA

----------------------

Moderator note: Went to the doctor about high blood pressure and she has me on

potassium also because of depletion due to the blood pressure meds. She found

out that a person might still get leg cramps etc and discovered that it might be

caused from magnesium so had me add that to the mix of meds. PatB

May 15, 2003

Just wondering...is anyone on Metho and Enbrel who isn't feeling better?

I inject 20mg of Metho a week and 25mg twice a week of Enbrel. I do not feel

better. Have taken Metho a long time but added Enbrel in January.

(Va.)

May 15, 2003

Hi ,

I am not on Enbrel, however Enbrel is the first drug that has been approved to

treat PA alone, without MTX being taken. My Rheum has many Enbrel patients that

do not take MTX. However, he does like Remicade to be taken with MTX, because it

is from animal proteins. He is actually hoping that Remicade can stand on its'

own one day too. Now, I have found that most people who were on MTX for a long

time before taking Enbrel, still need to continue MTX. MTX is a HARD drug to get

off of without the consequences of fatigue and pain, so it's easier to stay on

it if you have been on it. I have never been on MTX... the problems of getting

off of it being one of the many reasons why. Enbrel alone is what I will choose

when and if I need it, and my Rheum wants me to try Enbrel alone first, before

adding MTX in. If it works, then hopefully I will never need MTX.

Just my 2 cents. You CAN use Enbrel with or without MTX, but I think if you have

been on MTX for a long time, it is easier and SAFE to use it with the MTX. Hope

that helps a little?

In a message dated 5/13/2003 1:28:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,

raharris@... writes:

> --- Boice <keboice@...> wrote:

> <<He suggested I stay OFF mtx if I'm being treated

> effectively by enbrel . . . There is not one medical

> abstract I've read that recommends the use of mtx with

> enbrel.>>

>

> Not to contradict your doctor, but my Rheumy has had

> me on MTX and Enbrel for years -- pretty much since

> Enbrel hit the market. MTX was doing a decent job,

> but I was still in pain, so when Enbrel came out she

> put me on that as well. It has been several years

> now, and although I have had some flares I am,

> overall, better than I have been since I can remember.

>

> , North Jersey Highlands

> Arthritis Walk: http://northjersey.chariteam.com

May 17, 2003

e,

Took Naproxen for a bit, never helped ;(. And, yes...Metho is good at

clearing P. Seems like 1500 is a high amount to me....wondering if other's

take that amount?

I understand your concern over taking pain meds unnecessarily but, when you

are in pain....that is what they are for and you shouldn't deny yourself the

right to feel better...just my opinion. ;-) (Va.)

May 17, 2003

Hello all,

I am not on Enbrel, but take MTX and Naproxen. My rheumy said that MTX does

nothing for pain and only is supposed to keep the PA from spreading to other

joints. Does anyone else take Naproxen for pain? I take 1 500 mg per day (am

allowed to take 2 but don't like to take meds if I can help it).

thanks for any input.

e in Mass.

Re: [ ] MTX & Enbrel