Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Hi Allan! I'm sorry about your missed bloodwork. That's the hard part of being unwell - you have to be fully fit to keep everything running correctly. Hope things improve. I can tell you something about my own experience with anti- depressants and PA and also that of some friends. Traditionally, depression has been regarded as a self-inflicted illness of the soul, that only " weaker " representatives of the species are afflicted by. This idea will prevail for long I guess, but new facts have emerged in the last 10 years. I even heard this morning that " strain induced " incontinence in women can be effectively reduced by ssri! Depression can be a systemic illness. Depression can reveal itself in such odd ways as increased sensitivity to pain. And already being in pain does not make it any better. Also, the pain that PA sufferers experience daily will " wear " on you, causing clinical depression. In such cases, anti-depressants, especially ssri, will help. They won't affect your mood since there's no such symptoms, but it will help you managing your pain. Depression is a clinically proven state of brain chemistry. Some neural function is (mildly) depressed. It does not necessarily have to mean that you " feel blue " or had a bad childhood. One of the commonest reasons for depression is actually work related stress or techno stress. Chronic pain is another biggie. So, my advice can only be, to try it. There can be some side effects, but from what I've heard they are usually mild. There are several kinds, some simpler effecting only serotonin, and some combined effecting serotonin and norepinephrine. In my case, the latter helped to a great extent. I appear to be " allergic " to stress, and pain and fatigue (as well as cognitive fog) is the result. Theresa in Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 newjersey23@... writes: << ...your immune system is still in overdrive.. I'm sure you've probably had days like me where you slept 9 hours and woke up feeling like you didnt sleep at all..>> that sounds like me most of the time. I am in a flare now and feel constantly fatigued. It is a visious cycle. I am usually not a depressed person in general. Now I am in so much pain that is is making me depressed. So then some doctors recommend anti-depressants to take away the depression and hopefully help with the pain. The only thing is that I am already on so many meds that I don 't want to add more. ALso I am afraid of the bad side affects of some of them and definitely don't want to add to everyhting else. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 People may disagree with me here but i hate it when doctors blame fatigue on depression. I get extremely tired at times also, but i am also NOT depressed.. And anti-depressants are like experiment projects.. They may work for some people , and cause short circuits for others.. The doctor really doesnt know whats going to happen until you start taking them. Some people get very psychotic, crazy, gain weight, and other things..... other people feel more relaxed and can handle life better.. My approach is diet and excersize... works just as good for me. Everyone with a chronic illness has more fatigue then others.. Our immune system is in constant overdrive all the time...zapping all our energy.. So even when you are relaxed and all...your immune system is still in overdrive.. I'm sure you've probably had days like me where you slept 9 hours and woke up feeling like you didnt sleep at all.. ok enough posting for me today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Dear Allan I was exactly like you , with severe fatigue, lots of pain and inflamed joints. By recommendations of my textbook at school(alternative nutrition School) I changed my lifestyle to: Consume the diet that focus on whole, unprocessed food(whole grains, legumes, vegetables, fruits, nuts, and seeds) Avoid animal products with the exception of cold-water fish(Simon, mackerel, herring, is so on) Identify and control food allergies Eliminate Alcohol, caffeine, and sugar Get regular exercise Perform a relaxation exercise(medication, deep breathing, player, etc) Drink at least 48 ounces of water daily Supplement protocol: High-quality multiple vitamins and minerals vitamin C 500 to 1000 milligrams three times daily vitamin E 400 units daily flax seed oil to tablespoons daily Pancreatic 350 to 700 mg three times daily between meals L-Glutamine 500 to mg one capsule one to three times daily on an empty stomach If you thinking these are to much just try: take high-quality multiple vitamin and mineral supplement take extra antioxidants take 1 tbsp. of flax seed oil daily After few months my fatigue was gone, now my inflamed joints is much better, most of the pain had gone, and I am not taking any conventional medicine after following these recommendations for 10 months. Please see the alternative medicine specialist, or start to study it yourself. With best wishes for you. Soudi please ignore my spelling and grammar English is not my native language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Hi friends, yesterday sent an e-mail for you and I miss spelled medication to dedication, it's funny sometimes I write with help of software (Naturally Speaking,) which I talk to microphone instead using the key board, and if I don't check it carefully this sort of mistakes will happen. Sorry about that, please feel free to my spelling and grammar. soudi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 9 hours??? I can sleep for 15 and still be so tired that my body is consumed with it.... Teri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 i know... I'm curious about that **provogil** for fatigue... are there any others on it? Re: [ ] Re: Severe fatigue > 9 hours??? I can sleep for 15 and still be so tired that my body is consumed with it.... > Teri > > > > > Please visit our Psoriatic Arthritis Group's informational web page at: > http://www.wpunj.edu/pa/ -- created and edited by list member aka(raharris@...). > > Also,in August 2001,list member Jack aka Cornishpro@... began to conduct extensive research which he publishes as the " Psoriatic Arthritis Research Newsletter " , monthly in our email and digest format. Many thanks to Jack. Back issues of the newsletter are stored on our PA webpage as well as the archives of the list. > > Don't forget that the list archives comprise a tremendous amount of information (Over three years of messages and answers).Feel free to browse them at your convenience. > > LET'S HEAR FROM SOME OF YOU LURKERS out there! If you have a comment or question, chances are there is a person who has been around a while who can help you out with AT LEAST an educated guess for an answer! If not,we can steer you in the right direction with a good website to go to, > > Blessings and Peace, > > Atwood-Stack, Founder > Alan , Web & List Editor > Jack , Newsletter Editor > Pat Bias, List Editor > Ron Dotson, List Editor > Orin, List Editor > , List Editor > and any others who help in any way (thank you!) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Fatigue is a big part of the PS/PA world. When I got the attention of my Doc he said that I should try Nortriptyline. The antidepressant is also used for chronic pain, and then he added Ambien as needed for sleep. It has worked very well for me, I use Ambien about once or twice a week, depending on how I am doing in the sleep department. Northriptyline is every night, 20MG about an hour or so before bed. Enbrel has been a wonder drug, off MTX and doing much better. Celebrex helps out on those days that are just a bit more painful. All in all the mixture has helped me with the fatigue and overall effects of PA. I have had PS/PA for over 20 years so it is nice to have something that works and makes life much easier. Bob in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 In a message dated 6/6/2003 11:10:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, celticangyl@... writes: > i know... I'm curious about that **provogil** for fatigue... are there any > others on it? I will be if the insureance will let me have it. :-) Smile, Becky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 -- I finally found a doc that listens, and has found reasons behind fatigue and pain, instead of just labeling me " depressed. " It is so refreshing! > > Have a wonderful weekend everyone!! > > Jen Sounds like a good Doc. What reasons has he/she found? Anything we can benefit from? Fatigue for me is disabling. I have had some depression in the past and I agree the day to day fatigue is different. I have found a Doc who believes me but I believe he has no idea what to do about it so he just says of course you are going to be tired You have PA and Fibro-they both make you tired. I feel like I should quit bringing it up. Have a good weekend too! Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 You europeans always find these interesting statements.. Where did u get this from the bible or something? These days with all the stresses we have in our daily lives, anybody is vulnerable to depression.. Regardless of how strong or weak their soul is. >Theresa in Sweden wrote : >Traditionally, depression has been regarded as a self-inflicted >illness of the soul, that only " weaker " representatives of the >species are afflicted by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 I have almost everything else " taken care of " and feeling like my old self again, but the fatigue... I'm still very very very tired... no one will give me sleep meds either. Re: [ ] Re: Severe fatigue > In a message dated 6/6/2003 11:10:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > celticangyl@... writes: > > > i know... I'm curious about that **provogil** for fatigue... are there any > > others on it? > > I will be if the insureance will let me have it. :-) > > Smile, > Becky > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Hi Allan One thing to consider regarding fatigue in psoriasis. All of that tearing down and rebuilding of tissue, whether it be on your skin or around your joints, requires energy. When tissue is red, swollen and warm to the touch it is burning more energy than normal tissue. As result, if your condition involves a lot of tissue, you may be burning more energy sleeping than a normal person does walking. Orin <<allanfowlie@... writes: I always thought fatigue is part of the disease ? Perhaps there has been a group survey on fatigue ? Maybe I need to take some pain relief and this will help the fatigue ? I'm currently not taking anything and experimenting with diet and exercise to help the pain. Any thoughts welcome. Cheers, Allan>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Soudi -- Wow, that is almost exactly what I'm doing, and I agree it works wonders. It's interesting that we arrived at similar protocols independently. We have some differences in doses but that's to be expected, as we are all different. Also I eat more meat (mostly whole organic chicken), because I need the protein. To your summary of the three most important things to do (multi-vitamin/mineral, anti-oxidants, flaxseed), I would add one more thing: a quality digestive multi-enzyme with every meal and a pancreatic enzyme (or Wobenzym) between meals on an empty stomach. Everyone else: ** take note! This works!!!! ** Elfstrom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 I have the same problem.. I have basically eliminated my psoriasis and only have slight arthritis in the shoulders in the morning.. But the fatigue is sooo soo bad.. Washing the dishes seems like a days worth of work for me. I'm gonna try to increase my daily vitamin supplement. <<From: " Boyd " <celticangyl@...> Subject: Re: Re: Severe fatigue I have almost everything else " taken care of " and feeling like my old self again, but the fatigue... I'm still very very very tired... no one will give me sleep meds either.>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Hi . I just checked the provigil with my work drug reference and it states it is only used for narcolepsy and MS. In that case, you may or may not be able to use it depending on your doctors view about the severity of your fatigue. From what I'm reading, the contraindications and adverse reactions make it not worth it unless you cannot stay awake. Hope this helps. Re: [ ] Re: Severe fatigue i know... I'm curious about that **provogil** for fatigue... are there any others on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 At 11:38 PM 6/6/03 -0400, Bob wrote: >Fatigue is a big part of the PS/PA world. To Bob and all, do you find fatigue to be a problem when you're *not* flaring? I'm asking because even when things are pretty good with the joints, I still feel constantly tired. I have a diagnosed sleep disorder but I have been treated for that successfully since long before my PA diagnosis, so I don't think it's anything like that. It seems to me it's either the PA itself or the meds (I'm on methotrexate and voltaren). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Visit my personal web site at http://members.shaw.ca/tljohnson/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 thanks, just wish I could find something that works... they won't give me ambien to sleep, nothign to stay awake... ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2003 Report Share Posted June 7, 2003 Thank you, for your recommendation about digestive enzyme, actually I am taking Metagest, which containing HCI(Betaine) pepsin and Gentian Root, with my meals and also to helping my digestive system I takeL-Glutamine twice daily an empty stomach, and in morning as soon as I wake up, I take a tablespoon Ginger juice, I AM so glad to find someone which is fighting to this disease in a holistic way. Best wishes to you and peace on earth. Soudi Re: [ ] Severe fatigue > Soudi -- Wow, that is almost exactly what I'm doing, and I agree it works > wonders. > > It's interesting that we arrived at similar protocols independently. We > have some differences in doses but that's to be expected, as we are all > different. Also I eat more meat (mostly whole organic chicken), because I > need the protein. > > To your summary of the three most important things to do > (multi-vitamin/mineral, anti-oxidants, flaxseed), I would add one more thing: > a quality digestive multi-enzyme with every meal and a pancreatic enzyme > (or Wobenzym) between meals on an empty stomach. > > Everyone else: ** take note! This works!!!! ** > > Elfstrom > > > > > Please visit our Psoriatic Arthritis Group's informational web page at: > http://www.wpunj.edu/pa/ -- created and edited by list member aka(raharris@...). > > Also,in August 2001,list member Jack aka Cornishpro@... began to conduct extensive research which he publishes as the " Psoriatic Arthritis Research Newsletter " , monthly in our email and digest format. Many thanks to Jack. Back issues of the newsletter are stored on our PA webpage as well as the archives of the list. > > Don't forget that the list archives comprise a tremendous amount of information (Over three years of messages and answers).Feel free to browse them at your convenience. > > LET'S HEAR FROM SOME OF YOU LURKERS out there! If you have a comment or question, chances are there is a person who has been around a while who can help you out with AT LEAST an educated guess for an answer! If not,we can steer you in the right direction with a good website to go to, > > Blessings and Peace, > > Atwood-Stack, Founder > Alan , Web & List Editor > Jack , Newsletter Editor > Pat Bias, List Editor > Ron Dotson, List Editor > Orin, List Editor > , List Editor > and any others who help in any way (thank you!) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 In a message dated 6/7/2003 12:52:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, newjersey23@... writes: > You europeans always find these interesting statements.. Where did u get > this from the bible or something? These days with all the stresses we have > in our daily lives, anybody is vulnerable to depression.. Regardless of how > strong or weak their soul is. I second this!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 > thanks, just wish I could find something that works... they won't give me > ambien to sleep, nothign to stay awake... ugh Hi , You have probably already tried this but some of the antihistamines help me get to sleep. Atarax works best for me but is a prescription med. 50 mg of Benadryl works and is over the counter. I guess if they are used every night your body builds up tolerance and you no longer get sleepy. I use them about 2 times a week. sleep is also a real problem for me-Really flares the fibro too. Best, Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 -Hi , I am also TIRED all the time whether joints are flaring or not> Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 How about we not say things like " u Europeans " or 'U New Jersyites " or u whatevers " generalizations almost always hurt someones feeling or worse make them " fighting mad " . Let's just find similarities...Enough...Sylvia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 I didnt mean that like an ass.. i'm sorry if it sounded like that.. I'm european also. (hungarian-american) Both my parents were born and raised there. (hungary) I was born in new jersey though. mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How about we not say things like " u Europeans " or 'U New Jersyites " or u whatevers " generalizations almost always hurt someones feeling or worse make them " fighting mad " . Let's just find similarities...Enough...Sylvia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 Fatigue is a problem for me ...........I am one who pushes myself to and beyond limits but then it catches up to me :-( Nanc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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