Re: De Caf & RA

[Guest guest]

I started drinking alot of decaf tea (at least five cups a day) about

a year and a half ago and (coincidentally?) my symptoms have

worsened. I guess it can't hurt for me to elimiminate it and see if

there's any improvement-- although I'll sure miss it!

Sharon

> I read in Woman's World Mag this week that a study was done that

> show de-caf drinkers had much higher rates of RA than regular

coffee

> drinkers. They suspect something in the chemical processing

affects

> the autoimmune system.

>

> As I think back, my symptoms for PA started about the time I had to

> switch from reg to De-caf. (Early 20's). I know this doesn't apply

> to everyone, but I think it's interesting.

>

> I'd like to start a poll on this, but couldn't. Is there someone

> more savy in this group who could?

>

> Thanks,

> Diane

[Guest guest]

I've always had the intention to switch to decaf from reg but everytime

I had the two pots sitting in front of me, I lost my resolution and went

to the reg. I just like it better. Maybe that explains why, in spite

of how awful I am always feeling, I seem to be able to get on with my

life anyway... who knows? Coffee anyone?

[ ] De Caf & RA

I read in Woman's World Mag this week that a study was done that

show de-caf drinkers had much higher rates of RA than regular coffee

drinkers. They suspect something in the chemical processing affects

the autoimmune system.

As I think back, my symptoms for PA started about the time I had to

switch from reg to De-caf. (Early 20's). I know this doesn't apply

to everyone, but I think it's interesting.

I'd like to start a poll on this, but couldn't. Is there someone

more savy in this group who could?

Thanks,

Diane

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[Guest guest]

There are two main methods of decaffeinating: one using chemicals, most often

methylene chloride, and the other using high-pressure hot water. (The

caffeine that is extracted is then used as an additive to soft drinks. Talk

about recycling!) Methylene chloride caffeine extraction works when the

caffeine molecules cling to the methylene chloride, which is then flushed

away. This process is done on the green, unroasted bean. Virtually no traces

of the chemical remain, and what little there is evaporates when the beans

are roasted. Many coffee drinkers think that this method preserves the flavor

better than the non-chemical method.

The Swiss Water Process is chemical-free. Hot, high-pressure water and

charcoal flushed many times over the coffee bean washes away the caffeine.

Because there's no chemical residue on the coffee bean from either method, it

doesn't seem that there is any health advantage of one method over the other.

However, many people, for philosophical reasons, prefer to eat foods

containing or processed with as few chemicals as possible, for both their own

health and the health of the Earth. Good luck to you and your progress in

switching to a healthier, more nutritious lifestyle. Thanks for the question.

I used to work with acrylic plastic and we used methylene chloride as a

solvent for welding the plastic. The warnings that are included by law on a

meth chlor label are pretty vivid. Not something I would want to drink even

in trace amounts. In fact one doctor asked me what I did for a living when

I told him I worked in sheet plastic fabrication he flat out told me quit

right now. I will agree that it readily vaporises and there may not be a

trace left but MethChlor is a nasty solvent that is only a little less

dangerous than methyl ethyl ketone. If it comes to drinking decaf I will

choose decafeinated water first ha ha

I was proofreading what I had typed and it crossed my mind that the active

ingredient in pvc glue used to weld water pipes is also methylene chloride!

The exposure by drinking water from freshly glued pipes would be thousands of

times higher than that from washed then roasted beans.... Orin

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/13/02 3:26:03 PM Central Daylight Time,

heather.watson@... writes:

> I've always had the intention to switch to decaf from reg but everytime

> I had the two pots sitting in front of me, I lost my resolution and went

> to the reg. I just like it better. Maybe that explains why, in spite

> of how awful I am always feeling, I seem to be able to get on with my

> life anyway... who knows? Coffee anyone?

>

>

>

Ya Thank you I decided to skip the cup and just drink it straight from the

pot saves all the walking ha ha Orin

[Guest guest]

I did a bit of research on this topic and found quite a few

articles. It seems that both decaf coffee & decaf tea may increase

the risk of RA, possibly due to the decafination process -- while

regular tea may actually be beneficial. Here are a few quotes & links

for those of you who are interested:

Decaf Coffee Increases Rheumatoid Arthritis Risk

See: http://www.mercola.com/2001/dec/1/decaf_coffee.htm or

http://www.accurheum.com/news/2001/coffee.htm

" Decaffeinated coffee consumption is an important yet modifiable risk

factor in the development of rheumatoid arthritis. Given the global

popularity of coffee, the findings have potential public health

implications.

The researchers followed more than 31,000 women aged 55 to 69

included in the Iowa Women's Health Study from 1986 through 1997.

They tracked the 158 women who developed rheumatoid arthritis during

that time period and compared them with women who did not develop the

disease.

In rheumatoid arthritis, the immune system attacks the lining of the

joints, causing pain, stiffness and inflammation.

Women drinking four or more cups a day of decaffeinated coffee were

at more than twice the risk of developing rheumatoid arthritis.

However, women drinking regular coffee were not at increased risk,

while those drinking more than three cups of tea had a 60% reduced

risk of developing the disease.

They found no association with daily caffeine intake or caffeinated

coffee use and the risk of developing rheumatoid arthritis. The

researchers took into account other possible contributing factors,

such as age, smoking history, marital status and the use of hormone

replacement therapy. The association persisted even after accounting

for other factors that may be associated with rheumatoid arthritis.

In a similar study, researchers evaluated risk factors for developing

rheumatoid arthritis among 64,000 black women followed since 1995 as

part of the Black Women's Health Study.

The researchers reported that drinking more than one cup a day of

decaffeinated coffee seemed to quadruple the risk of developing

rheumatoid arthritis.

As far as the researchers knew, these were the first observations of

decaffeinated coffee having an association with any metabolic

disorder. They speculated that the use of industrial solvents in the

decaffeination process may play a role. There is accumulating

evidence that environmental factors play an important role in the

development of rheumatoid arthritis.

American College of Rheumatology's annual meeting San Francisco

November 13, 2001 "

Also, From: SCIENCE REPORT- December 12, 2001: Rheumatoid Arthritis

and Decaf Coffee

By Steinbach at http://www.manythings.org/voa/01/011212sr_t.htm

" ...Researchers from Boston University in Massachusetts reported

about another study. It involved rheumatoid arthritis among sixty-

four-thousand black women. The women were involved in the Black

Women's Health Study that began in Nineteen-Ninety-Five. The

researchers found that drinking more than one cup of decaffeinated

coffee a day seemed to increase by four times the chance of

developing the disease. However, in this study, drinking tea seemed

to increase the chance of developing rheumatoid arthritis.

The researchers said they believe these are the first studies to show

a link between decaf coffee and rheumatoid arthritis. But they said

people should not stop drinking decaf or tea until more studies are

done.

For more information on the ACR's annual meeting, see

<http://www.rheumatology.org>. "

Or see: http://www.hopkins-arthritis.som.jhmi.edu/edu/acr2001/ra-

epidemiology.html

> > I read in Woman's World Mag this week that a study was done that

> > show de-caf drinkers had much higher rates of RA than regular

> coffee

> > drinkers. They suspect something in the chemical processing

> affects

> > the autoimmune system.

> >

> > As I think back, my symptoms for PA started about the time I had

to

> > switch from reg to De-caf. (Early 20's). I know this doesn't

apply

> > to everyone, but I think it's interesting.

> >

> > I'd like to start a poll on this, but couldn't. Is there someone

> > more savy in this group who could?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Diane

[Guest guest]

Sharon and Orin,

Thanks for the information on de-caf studies and processing. I

switched over to my favorite brand of tea yesterday for grins.

Orin, do you think there is a connection between your job with

plastics and PA?

-Diane

> There are two main methods of decaffeinating: one using chemicals,

most often

> methylene chloride, and the other using high-pressure hot water.

(The

> caffeine that is extracted is then used as an additive to soft

drinks. Talk

> about recycling!) Methylene chloride caffeine extraction works

when the

> caffeine molecules cling to the methylene chloride, which is then

flushed

> away. This process is done on the green, unroasted bean. Virtually

no traces

> of the chemical remain, and what little there is evaporates when

the beans

> are roasted. Many coffee drinkers think that this method preserves

the flavor

> better than the non-chemical method.

> The Swiss Water Process is chemical-free. Hot, high-pressure water

and

> charcoal flushed many times over the coffee bean washes away the

caffeine.

> Because there's no chemical residue on the coffee bean from either

method, it

> doesn't seem that there is any health advantage of one method over

the other.

> However, many people, for philosophical reasons, prefer to eat

foods

> containing or processed with as few chemicals as possible, for

both their own

> health and the health of the Earth. Good luck to you and your

progress in

> switching to a healthier, more nutritious lifestyle. Thanks for

the question.

>

> I used to work with acrylic plastic and we used methylene chloride

as a

> solvent for welding the plastic. The warnings that are included

by law on a

> meth chlor label are pretty vivid. Not something I would want to

drink even

> in trace amounts. In fact one doctor asked me what I did for a

living when

> I told him I worked in sheet plastic fabrication he flat out told

me quit

> right now. I will agree that it readily vaporises and there may

not be a

> trace left but MethChlor is a nasty solvent that is only a little

less

> dangerous than methyl ethyl ketone. If it comes to drinking decaf

I will

> choose decafeinated water first ha ha

> I was proofreading what I had typed and it crossed my mind that

the active

> ingredient in pvc glue used to weld water pipes is also methylene

chloride!

> The exposure by drinking water from freshly glued pipes would be

thousands of

> times higher than that from washed then roasted beans.... Orin

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/15/02 12:26:22 PM Central Daylight Time,

moosetracks@... writes:

> Orin, do you think there is a connection between your job with

> plastics and PA?

>

> -Diane

>

No I really dont think so not directly anyway but that doctor seemed to think

that was some really bad stuff to work with. I had a psor spot here and there

as a kid long before exposure to plastics in that manner or the chemicals

used in fabrication of plastic. I had the first big breakout of psor and

ankylosing spondylitis while I worked in a fast food joint. Now that I think

of it all the walls in that store were covered in fiberglas reinforced

paneling and there was the strong smell of the fiberglas in that building

many months. The other thing somewhat unusual thing I could mention about

that environment is that all the plumbing was made of copper. There was a

huge pipe manufacturer in that town and as result the city building code

required the use of the most expensive plumbing to support local industry.

There was a lot of algae in the water too if you would run a tub of water it

was quite green in the summer months and water filters would have to be

changed weekly during july and august. I quit that job partly because I

thought I had aids ha ha I had no idea what psor was. I did that type of

plastic work for 2 different companies spanning about 5 years Mostly

plexiglas type plastic some abs, styrene and others. It was during that time

that I experienced all the incidences of sausage digits. I thought it was

gout at the time. I worked night shift and would go to a nasty little diner

to have my evening meal each night cause it was the only place open. I had

suspicion that the " gout " may have been result of chronic low level food

poisoning from that diner. That place got a scatheing report from a local

news station who reported on bad county health dept inspections and they got

the worst score of some 10 thousand restaurants in the city. (And I've been

eating there 3-4 nights a week!?!) I never did verify that suspicion in any

way and I'm not quite bold enough to intentionally eat tainted food to test

it ha ha One other possibility about the sausages is that I worked in an

un-air conditioned shop so I wondered if the heat (110 degrees?) may have had

something to do with it. By the way my knee ballooned up last summer after

several days working out in the heat. Back to the decaf I have some question

as to whether there is any bad chemistry in chemicly decaffeinated coffee.

Maybe its just me but if not for the caffiene what is the point of drinking

coffee? ha ha I dont know if any of this rambling reply will strike a chord

with anyone but I think the cause of this disease is gonna end up being

something less than obvious so the more details of our own experiences we

share the more likely one of us will recognise the pattern. Reminds me of

a cartoon I read one time. It showed two scientists in lab coats standing in

front of microscopes. One of them exclaims; " I've got it! Life causes

cancer! " ha ha Orin

[Guest guest]

I also switched tea brands this weekend. The package says that the

tea is organic and " decaffeinated by a method using the natural

carbon dioxide present in the air we breathe " . (I tried some of the

herbal teas first, but they tasted just awful!).

> > There are two main methods of decaffeinating: one using

chemicals,

> most often

> > methylene chloride, and the other using high-pressure hot water.

> (The

> > caffeine that is extracted is then used as an additive to soft

> drinks. Talk

> > about recycling!) Methylene chloride caffeine extraction works

> when the

> > caffeine molecules cling to the methylene chloride, which is then

> flushed

> > away. This process is done on the green, unroasted bean.

Virtually

> no traces

> > of the chemical remain, and what little there is evaporates when

> the beans

> > are roasted. Many coffee drinkers think that this method

preserves

> the flavor

> > better than the non-chemical method.

> > The Swiss Water Process is chemical-free. Hot, high-pressure

water

> and

> > charcoal flushed many times over the coffee bean washes away the

> caffeine.

> > Because there's no chemical residue on the coffee bean from

either

> method, it

> > doesn't seem that there is any health advantage of one method

over

> the other.

> > However, many people, for philosophical reasons, prefer to eat

> foods

> > containing or processed with as few chemicals as possible, for

> both their own

> > health and the health of the Earth. Good luck to you and your

> progress in

> > switching to a healthier, more nutritious lifestyle. Thanks for

> the question.

> >

> > I used to work with acrylic plastic and we used methylene

chloride

> as a

> > solvent for welding the plastic. The warnings that are included

> by law on a

> > meth chlor label are pretty vivid. Not something I would want

to

> drink even

> > in trace amounts. In fact one doctor asked me what I did for a

> living when

> > I told him I worked in sheet plastic fabrication he flat out told

> me quit

> > right now. I will agree that it readily vaporises and there may

> not be a

> > trace left but MethChlor is a nasty solvent that is only a little

> less

> > dangerous than methyl ethyl ketone. If it comes to drinking

decaf

> I will

> > choose decafeinated water first ha ha

> > I was proofreading what I had typed and it crossed my mind that

> the active

> > ingredient in pvc glue used to weld water pipes is also methylene

> chloride!

> > The exposure by drinking water from freshly glued pipes would be

> thousands of

> > times higher than that from washed then roasted beans.... Orin

> >

> >

> >

> >