Liver Test

[Guest guest]

My GP's nurse called today Friday) and advised me that my last blood test showed

my liver " ? " were elevated. My GP scheduled an ultra sound of my liver done

first thing Monday AM.

I know several others on this list have undergone liver biopsies, but I do not

remember anyone having the ultra sound.

Any insight into what the elevation means concerning my liver, and what the

ultra sound might show?

Any particular meds that cause the liver problems?

Oddly enough I had been complaining about a pain in my abdomen and found out

today that is the location of my liver. It just aches all the time, feels like

a hard rock.

Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks.

in Poulsbo, Wa.

[Editor's Note: I don't remember which drugs you're on, but MTX and Arava come

to mind as two drugs that MAY cause liver problems. Please share the ultrasound

findings and liver panel readings with your rheumatologist and dermy. An

ultrasound shows more detail than an xray because the physician can direct the

ultrasound to very specific areas and watch the live action, while an xray is a

static photo. I'm sure the ultrasound will also be directed around your

stomach, gall bladder, intestines, kidneys as any one of these could cause a

hard rock pain. Please let us know what the findings are. We'll all be

thinking of you. Kathy F.]

[Guest guest]

Hi

My specialist had an ultrasound done on my liver after being on the

MTX caused me to have raised liver counts. The counts were still

fairly abnormal even after I'd been off the MTX for a few months.

He wanted to see if there was any permanent damage done by the MTX.

It showed that I have a 'fatty' liver (so now I'm on a low fat diet)

He (and so did the radiologist) thought the MTX may have caused the

condition but not to be overly concerned because it is a very common

complaint. The rheumy has one too.

Hope your test shows nothing abnormal.

Just wanted to let you know that having an ultrasound done on your

liver is quite normal procedure.

I found it a lot less daunting and less painful than an MRI.

Good luck and wishing you well.

Suzie

[Guest guest]

---

Hi ,

I will be praying for you. Please keep us posted.

God Bless, Sue.

In , " lbschroeder "

<lbschroeder@e...> wrote:

>

> My GP's nurse called today Friday) and advised me that my last

blood test showed my liver " ? " were elevated. My GP scheduled an

ultra sound of my liver done first thing Monday AM.

>

> I know several others on this list have undergone liver biopsies,

but I do not remember anyone having the ultra sound.

>

> Any insight into what the elevation means concerning my liver, and

what the ultra sound might show?

>

> Any particular meds that cause the liver problems?

>

> Oddly enough I had been complaining about a pain in my abdomen and

found out today that is the location of my liver. It just aches all

the time, feels like a hard rock.

>

> Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks.

> in Poulsbo, Wa.

>

> [Editor's Note: I don't remember which drugs you're on, but MTX

and Arava come to mind as two drugs that MAY cause liver problems.

Please share the ultrasound findings and liver panel readings with

your rheumatologist and dermy. An ultrasound shows more detail than

an xray because the physician can direct the ultrasound to very

specific areas and watch the live action, while an xray is a static

photo. I'm sure the ultrasound will also be directed around your

stomach, gall bladder, intestines, kidneys as any one of these could

cause a hard rock pain. Please let us know what the findings are.

We'll all be thinking of you. Kathy F.]

[Guest guest]

Hi - the detoxigenomic test is a bloodtest - and no, we had to pay for it.

Guess you could contact them and see who you could work with. - Robin

[ ] Re: Homeopathy- can it work on neuro lyme?

Robin,

Does the detoxigenomic test from Genova use caffeine in the testing? I had to

stop taking a liver detox test that they used to do (many years ago) because it

used caffeine and I simply cannot tolerate caffeine.

Also, do you know if it is covered by Medicare?

I suspect my liver is not detoxing well, but can't take their function test. It

would be good to know what is really going on with my liver!

Thanks, jo

>

>

> Hi - you're saying you feel pretty sensitive now - am wondering whether it

might be at all useful to do the liver detoxigenomic test to see whether you

have a hard time detoxing genetically? It tests for the genes we get from our

parents for 8 enzyme pathways in phase I and four out of 10 drains in phase 2

for the liver. Phase I dysfunction is like when the bathtub fills up too much

and phase II alteration is like the bathtub doesn't drain. Then an MD or ND

knowledgeable in wholistic care can supervise the order of supplement treatments

to help the liver do its clearing work. I had the test done through the Genova

Diagnostic lab in N Carolina, and my LLMD is following me now on supplement

treatments, as I am sensitive to most things I try.

>

> Couple other things - I've been treating my fibromyalgia pain successfully

with clindamycin abx. It took the fibro pain to zero in a week's time, and still

treats it. I started with 150mg 4x/day, then herxed after a month, and went to

150mgmg 2x/day. I know what each of us does does not necessarily work for

someone else - I'm just reporting my treatment. Also I drink mangosteen juice

and that clears up all Lyme eye symptoms for me.

>

> I respect homeopathy - I had both an enjoyable and difficult response to two

different remedies.

>

> And yes, I've seen people get much improvement from stem cell injections,

including someone who presented with MS-like symptoms.

>

> I think whatever you do, you have to try it in a gentle way. You need to be

the one to evaluate how much you can handle. Take care -

> Robin

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My genomics liver detox test was a combo of urine, saliva i think, and blood.

You do have to take acetaph. , aspirin, and caffeine-since you measure clearance

of those substance-

I was had issues with both phase I and Phase II but advice to repair or even if

it can be repaired (if genetic) was unclear- just eat more cruciferous vegtables

was what I took away-

Great...my diet has been so good my entire life and especially good past 12

years-and I took loads of milk thistle past 2 years.

Not sure how to improve my liver's detox ability......or how to tell what meds

I can tolerate.

I wanted to call genova but they will only talk to doctors on results. My doctor

has'n't called them to talk to them

His only advice was take Indole 3 carbinol or DIM...........

I've taken so many supplements I'm doubtful that will help me.

> >

> >

> > Hi - you're saying you feel pretty sensitive now - am wondering whether it

might be at all useful to do the liver detoxigenomic test to see whether you

have a hard time detoxing genetically? It tests for the genes we get from our

parents for 8 enzyme pathways in phase I and four out of 10 drains in phase 2

for the liver. Phase I dysfunction is like when the bathtub fills up too much

and phase II alteration is like the bathtub doesn't drain. Then an MD or ND

knowledgeable in wholistic care can supervise the order of supplement treatments

to help the liver do its clearing work. I had the test done through the Genova

Diagnostic lab in N Carolina, and my LLMD is following me now on supplement

treatments, as I am sensitive to most things I try.

> >

> > Couple other things - I've been treating my fibromyalgia pain successfully

with clindamycin abx. It took the fibro pain to zero in a week's time, and still

treats it. I started with 150mg 4x/day, then herxed after a month, and went to

150mgmg 2x/day. I know what each of us does does not necessarily work for

someone else - I'm just reporting my treatment. Also I drink mangosteen juice

and that clears up all Lyme eye symptoms for me.

> >

> > I respect homeopathy - I had both an enjoyable and difficult response to two

different remedies.

> >

> > And yes, I've seen people get much improvement from stem cell injections,

including someone who presented with MS-like symptoms.

> >

> > I think whatever you do, you have to try it in a gentle way. You need to be

the one to evaluate how much you can handle. Take care -

> > Robin

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

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>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

There are two separate tests. The Detoxigenomic test is a blood test and

looks for polymorphisms in certain genes involved in liver detox, where as

the liver detox test does involve taking caffeine, aspirin, etc, and is a

combo saliva/blood. It looks at how well certain liver detox pathways are

functioning. I've had both done, many years ago.

Donna in NC

--------------------------------------------------

From: " y093666 " <y093666@...>

Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:07 PM

< >

Subject: [ ] Re: liver test

> My genomics liver detox test was a combo of urine, saliva i think, and

> blood. You do have to take acetaph. , aspirin, and caffeine-since you

> measure clearance of those substance-

>

>

> I was had issues with both phase I and Phase II but advice to repair or

> even if it can be repaired (if genetic) was unclear- just eat more

> cruciferous vegtables was what I took away-

>

> Great...my diet has been so good my entire life and especially good past

> 12 years-and I took loads of milk thistle past 2 years.

>

> Not sure how to improve my liver's detox ability......or how to tell what

> meds I can tolerate.

>

> I wanted to call genova but they will only talk to doctors on results. My

> doctor has'n't called them to talk to them

>

> His only advice was take Indole 3 carbinol or DIM...........

>

> I've taken so many supplements I'm doubtful that will help me.

>

>

>> >

>> >

>> > Hi - you're saying you feel pretty sensitive now - am wondering

>> > whether it might be at all useful to do the liver detoxigenomic test to

>> > see whether you have a hard time detoxing genetically? It tests for the

>> > genes we get from our parents for 8 enzyme pathways in phase I and four

>> > out of 10 drains in phase 2 for the liver. Phase I dysfunction is like

>> > when the bathtub fills up too much and phase II alteration is like the

>> > bathtub doesn't drain. Then an MD or ND knowledgeable in wholistic care

>> > can supervise the order of supplement treatments to help the liver do

>> > its clearing work. I had the test done through the Genova Diagnostic

>> > lab in N Carolina, and my LLMD is following me now on supplement

>> > treatments, as I am sensitive to most things I try.

>> >

>> > Couple other things - I've been treating my fibromyalgia pain

>> > successfully with clindamycin abx. It took the fibro pain to zero in a

>> > week's time, and still treats it. I started with 150mg 4x/day, then

>> > herxed after a month, and went to 150mgmg 2x/day. I know what each of

>> > us does does not necessarily work for someone else - I'm just reporting

>> > my treatment. Also I drink mangosteen juice and that clears up all Lyme

>> > eye symptoms for me.

>> >

>> > I respect homeopathy - I had both an enjoyable and difficult response

>> > to two different remedies.

>> >

>> > And yes, I've seen people get much improvement from stem cell

>> > injections, including someone who presented with MS-like symptoms.

>> >

>> > I think whatever you do, you have to try it in a gentle way. You need

>> > to be the one to evaluate how much you can handle. Take care -

>> > Robin

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi - that's a different test than the one I did, which is called the

detoxigenomic liver test - a bloodtest, no diet involved at all - to check for

genetic markers from both parents as to whether we have functioning detox

pathways or not. A - - means no problem, a - + means one parent was ok, the

other not, and a + + means genetically deficient from both and we have trouble

detoxing. I was sensitive somewhat before I ever got Lymed.

My LLMD is trying to treat me for the two drains I flunked in Phase II - so yes,

a knowledgeable doctor does know things to try to repair the particular

pathways.

My opinion - someone there should be able to speak with you - I didn't, tho,

since my doctor handled it all - Robin

[ ] Re: liver test

My genomics liver detox test was a combo of urine, saliva i think, and blood.

You do have to take acetaph. , aspirin, and caffeine-since you measure clearance

of those substance-

I was had issues with both phase I and Phase II but advice to repair or even if

it can be repaired (if genetic) was unclear- just eat more cruciferous vegtables

was what I took away-

Great...my diet has been so good my entire life and especially good past 12

years-and I took loads of milk thistle past 2 years.

Not sure how to improve my liver's detox ability......or how to tell what meds

I can tolerate.

I wanted to call genova but they will only talk to doctors on results. My doctor

has'n't called them to talk to them

His only advice was take Indole 3 carbinol or DIM...........

I've taken so many supplements I'm doubtful that will help me.

> >

> >

> > Hi - you're saying you feel pretty sensitive now - am wondering whether it

might be at all useful to do the liver detoxigenomic test to see whether you

have a hard time detoxing genetically? It tests for the genes we get from our

parents for 8 enzyme pathways in phase I and four out of 10 drains in phase 2

for the liver. Phase I dysfunction is like when the bathtub fills up too much

and phase II alteration is like the bathtub doesn't drain. Then an MD or ND

knowledgeable in wholistic care can supervise the order of supplement treatments

to help the liver do its clearing work. I had the test done through the Genova

Diagnostic lab in N Carolina, and my LLMD is following me now on supplement

treatments, as I am sensitive to most things I try.

> >

> > Couple other things - I've been treating my fibromyalgia pain successfully

with clindamycin abx. It took the fibro pain to zero in a week's time, and still

treats it. I started with 150mg 4x/day, then herxed after a month, and went to

150mgmg 2x/day. I know what each of us does does not necessarily work for

someone else - I'm just reporting my treatment. Also I drink mangosteen juice

and that clears up all Lyme eye symptoms for me.

> >

> > I respect homeopathy - I had both an enjoyable and difficult response to two

different remedies.

> >

> > And yes, I've seen people get much improvement from stem cell injections,

including someone who presented with MS-like symptoms.

> >

> > I think whatever you do, you have to try it in a gentle way. You need to be

the one to evaluate how much you can handle. Take care -

> > Robin

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Donna - did the tests help you in determining what treatment you needed? -

Robin

[ ] Re: liver test

> My genomics liver detox test was a combo of urine, saliva i think, and

> blood. You do have to take acetaph. , aspirin, and caffeine-since you

> measure clearance of those substance-

>

>

> I was had issues with both phase I and Phase II but advice to repair or

> even if it can be repaired (if genetic) was unclear- just eat more

> cruciferous vegtables was what I took away-

>

> Great...my diet has been so good my entire life and especially good past

> 12 years-and I took loads of milk thistle past 2 years.

>

> Not sure how to improve my liver's detox ability......or how to tell what

> meds I can tolerate.

>

> I wanted to call genova but they will only talk to doctors on results. My

> doctor has'n't called them to talk to them

>

> His only advice was take Indole 3 carbinol or DIM...........

>

> I've taken so many supplements I'm doubtful that will help me.

>

>

>> >

>> >

>> > Hi - you're saying you feel pretty sensitive now - am wondering

>> > whether it might be at all useful to do the liver detoxigenomic test to

>> > see whether you have a hard time detoxing genetically? It tests for the

>> > genes we get from our parents for 8 enzyme pathways in phase I and four

>> > out of 10 drains in phase 2 for the liver. Phase I dysfunction is like

>> > when the bathtub fills up too much and phase II alteration is like the

>> > bathtub doesn't drain. Then an MD or ND knowledgeable in wholistic care

>> > can supervise the order of supplement treatments to help the liver do

>> > its clearing work. I had the test done through the Genova Diagnostic

>> > lab in N Carolina, and my LLMD is following me now on supplement

>> > treatments, as I am sensitive to most things I try.

>> >

>> > Couple other things - I've been treating my fibromyalgia pain

>> > successfully with clindamycin abx. It took the fibro pain to zero in a

>> > week's time, and still treats it. I started with 150mg 4x/day, then

>> > herxed after a month, and went to 150mgmg 2x/day. I know what each of

>> > us does does not necessarily work for someone else - I'm just reporting

>> > my treatment. Also I drink mangosteen juice and that clears up all Lyme

>> > eye symptoms for me.

>> >

>> > I respect homeopathy - I had both an enjoyable and difficult response

>> > to two different remedies.

>> >

>> > And yes, I've seen people get much improvement from stem cell

>> > injections, including someone who presented with MS-like symptoms.

>> >

>> > I think whatever you do, you have to try it in a gentle way. You need

>> > to be the one to evaluate how much you can handle. Take care -

>> > Robin

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Although our symptoms are not exact, I do understand the complete terror

of feeling that you are going down hill and not be able to stop it. I

am really sensitive to treatment. I have 's disease so I am in a

catch 22. Infection stresses adrenals, antibiotics and herbs kill

infection but stress out adrenals too. I have to go up and down on my

hydrocortisone just to balance it all. This year I have gotten new and

terrifying symptoms: Awful dysautonomia with near syncope, MS symptoms,

etc.

I have become sensitive to heat(saunas are now out) and most

treatments. So where does that leave me? At first it left me in a

total panic :-) Then I grounded myself and started to look at the

bigger picture. These are some of my suggestions:

1) Building your system should be a priority. Glyco nutrients,

d-galactose, etc.

2) Electrolytes- do not underestimate the power of these. Dr. k is a

big advocate of proper hydration. I dehydrate easily so these are key.

3)I love homeopathic support. I use homeopathic drainage as well as a

hypothalamus remedy to help balance out my brain. I also include a

blend of flower remedies to help.

4) EFT-- no matter how much we would like to ignore it, there is a very

high level of emotional baggage in lyme( or any other chronic illness).

Dr H.(in Hyde Park) often refers to his lyme patients as his walking

wounded. If nothing else the trauma of what we go through on a daily

basis is enough reason to practice this several times a day. I like Dr.

Mercola's version of it. it is easy to do.

5) Simple detox methods like dry skin brushing are crucial. This will

stimulate your lymph(the massages you get are great too, but this is a

twice daily practice) and help to process out the sludge in your

system. If you can tolerate epsom salt baths that is wonderful too. I

use 4 cups of epsom salts with 1 32 ounce bottle of peroxide in really

warm water. Sauna's are great too if you can tolerate the heat. It

will take the pressure off of your stressed out detox pathways.

6) Picture yourself well. This is critical. Do not get so wrapped up

into the " I am a genetic mutant " mindset :-) I have the mold genes,

inflammation markers, as well as messed up detox pathways. I could get

myself crazy about it. I have heard two wise healers speak and both

have said that there are ways around these issues. Don't give in to

doom and gloom. Even if you hear it from your doctor. You are a

miracle, start believing that it is possible to heal. As Buddha once

said, " Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it,

unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. "

7) Rifing may be too strong for you right now, but it doesn't mean that

you won't benefit in the future. If you were to use any electrical

device i would suggest the guardian. Look it up under eagle research.

8) Try to do some sort of exercise each day... before you laugh, there

are plenty of ways to do this. I am extremely weak so I use the chi

swinger to get my lymph moving and get some cardio benefits. you lay on

the floor with your feet on the machine. Not terribly hard:-) if you

can do Yoga or chi gong that is great There are many passive chi gong

styles out there that even the sickest people can do. It will help to

settle your nervous system down.

9) If you tolerate mag load up. The key is getting the right type for

your system. You may want to try several. It will be great for many MS

symptoms.

10) I do well with Young Living essential oils. There are protocols to

help build the immune system. You can apply them topically to be more

gentle.

11) Be aware of emfs and geopathic stress. Are you shutting off all of

the power to your bedroom at night? A sleep sanctuary is important.

There are many more things I can suggest, but I am becoming a posting

hog. Please let me know if I can help. Do not give up. There are

more options out there than you know. Plant stem cells can be a gentle

but powerful option. I would also recommend getting a zyto scan if you

have access to one. It is electrical and it can be draining for some

sensitive patients. I would do it on a better energetic day for you.

It may provide some clue as to what your body is dealing with.

Hang in there.

Peggy

[Guest guest]

Thanks all for the discussion of the liver tests by Genova. I'll inquire further

about the detoxigenomic test since it does not require taking caffeine. Will

need to find out the cost/does Medicare pay. I took the liver function tests a

few times back in the 90's before I became so sensitive to caffeine.

I wonder what the treatment would be anyway; if just more cruciferous veges, I'm

already high in their consumption. And they can depress thyroid function so I

wonder if I should be taking less. Perhaps supplements could provide the needed

sulphur without the thyroid supressing effects. I don't know. Would have to do

more research.

My doc has suggested a liver test, so this now gives me more information to

discuss it with her.

Thanks a bunch, jo

>

> There are two separate tests. The Detoxigenomic test is a blood test and

> looks for polymorphisms in certain genes involved in liver detox, where as

> the liver detox test does involve taking caffeine, aspirin, etc, and is a

> combo saliva/blood. It looks at how well certain liver detox pathways are

> functioning. I've had both done, many years ago.

>

> Donna in NC

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------

> From: " y093666 " <y093666@...>

> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 1:07 PM

> < >

> Subject: [ ] Re: liver test

[Guest guest]

Robin, Oh even more info after I answered previous posts! Thanks. I'll discuss

it with my doc. She's quite knowledgeable and I think would be able to give me

good guidance.

Do you remember how expensive it was?

thanks, jo

>

>

>

> Hi - that's a different test than the one I did, which is called the

detoxigenomic liver test - a bloodtest, no diet involved at all - to check for

genetic markers from both parents as to whether we have functioning detox

pathways or not. A - - means no problem, a - + means one parent was ok, the

other not, and a + + means genetically deficient from both and we have trouble

detoxing. I was sensitive somewhat before I ever got Lymed.

>

> My LLMD is trying to treat me for the two drains I flunked in Phase II - so

yes, a knowledgeable doctor does know things to try to repair the particular

pathways.

>

> My opinion - someone there should be able to speak with you - I didn't, tho,

since my doctor handled it all - Robin

>

>

>

>

>