Re: In praise of DAN! doctors.

[Guest guest]

What one would suggest is reading, studying and reading some more.

Purchase Andy's books if you can afford them. Read and re-read those

too. Print out files that are helpful and study those. If you need

explanations for things...the board is here.

Most testing is useless for mercury poisoning anyway. What testing is

useful you can obtain without a doctor. Even if you had a doctor,

they wouldn't know how to utilize the testing mostly anyway.

Learn as much as you can about vitamins and minerals and what they do

in the body. What safe doses are, what forms the body uses. Same with

viral supplements etc. Yes, its a lot of learning. Probably a few

months worth. But what other choices are there? Continue with doctors

who cannot help?

As for trial and error, I don't feel I am doing that at all. I made

sure I knew enough about this before I began it. I also veiw it this

way, what is some expensive doctor going to do? Trial and error on

your kid to the tune of a lot of money. Medicine is trial and error.

What works for one doesn't work for another. And no lab test can tell

you that. No doctor can predict which supplement your child might

react too. In essence trial and error is part of it. Finding what

will help and then applying it. Bear in mind that vitamins and

minerals are basically not harmful. Even if you take too much its

reversable. This is not always true with drugs or haphazard

treatments that some physicians advise.

This is also why it is advised that you go slowly, beginning only one

supplement at a time. Watching for reactions. I dont' find it

difficult to know what the vitamins are doing, because I see how my

child was before, and how they are now. Most of the monitoring is by

observation.

There may be a handful of doctors that can help in this same way, if

you can afford them or travel to their location. But mainstream med

is pretty much that..mainstream..they are all taught the same thing.

To get yoru child tested: order a hair elements test from

DirectLabs.com

Post the results on this board...that's it! Simple.

If your child is toxic, guaranteed to have vitamin deficiencies upon

which you begin supplements based upon a list that is part Andy's

protocol.

One step at a time is what I tell people.

> >

> > As you all know, I often post very inflammatory and aggressive

> comments when people go

> > to DAN! doctors who offer harmful, dangerous and inappropriate

> therapies, usually at high

> > cost.

> >

> > I have learned I need to do this or there is perfect certaintly

> that a few weeks later there

> > will be a post on the list about this person having gone and done

> whatever it was we were

> > discussing.

> >

> > Due to medicine being the state religion people do not respond to

> reasoning and logic.

> > They need some invective thrown in to break them out of the

glassy

> eyed ritual of letting

> > the priest in the white coat do whatever it is.

> >

> > The fact that most DAN! doctors offer dangerous, harmful and

> inappropriate therapies

> > really is not their fault. They're as much victims of the state

> medical religion as you and

> > your children are. In fact, they took the daring step of

thinking

> independently and

> > rejecting the dogma of the human sacrificing vaccine ritual.

This

> puts them head and

> > shoulders above other doctors.

> >

> > The DAN! doctors went through the same ritual indoctrination and

> brainwashing as regular

> > mainstream doctors who continue to conduct the human sacrificing

> vaccine ritual. This

> > training is in no way a suitable substitute for education. Thus

> almost no doctors in the

> > physician sense have any real ability to reason and thus no real

> ability to figure out how to

> > come up with new treatments. All they can do is try random

things.

> >

> > So the DAN! movement is full of doctors thrashing around, trying

> random things in a

> > heartfelt and sincere effort to help your children. This

certainly

> does not make them bad

> > people! They really do believe they're doing the right thing,

too,

> as many of them are

> > using these same therapies on their own children, sometimes with

> the same devastating

> > results I commonly hear of and try to prevent when I fill the

list

> with invective like " your

> > doctor doens't know anything about medicine. " Their intent is

> good, their heart is in the

> > right place.

> >

> > Unfortunately, chemicals aren't social things. It doesn't matter

> to the chemicals that the

> > DAN! doctors adminster what the doctor wants them to do, any more

> than it mattered to

> > the ethylmercury in the vaccines that turned your child autistic

> that the doctor who

> > administered the vaccine truly believed it was safe (and most of

> them continue to believe

> > this).

> >

> > So I say really horrible, bombastic, insulting things about DAN!

> doctors on the list quite

> > often. I say this to help you protect your children. I don't

need

> to say horribly bombastic

> > things about vaccine administering doctors who insist chelation

is

> dangeorus and you

> > should never do it, and that it won't work anyway, because on

this

> list you have already

> > figured out those doctors truly DON'T know what they are talking

> about and you aren't

> > going to go let them hurt your kids any more. Yet the DAN!

doctors

> are head and

> > shoulders above their brethren intellectually and in terms of

being

> brave enough to buck

> > the system and try to help. When I criticize them it is for an

> entirely practical and

> > pragmatic reason, not because they are bad people.

> >

> > Hopefully they'll eventually figure out what they are doing. A

few

> have, most aren't there

> > yet. In the meantime don't let them hurt your kids. The

chemicals

> they administer will do

> > that regardless of the purity of the doctor's motives if they

> aren't used properly.

> >

> > Andy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > As you all know, I often post very inflammatory and aggressive

> comments when people go

> > to DAN! doctors who offer harmful, dangerous and inappropriate

> therapies, usually at high

> > cost.

> >

> > I have learned I need to do this or there is perfect certaintly

> that a few weeks later there

> > will be a post on the list about this person having gone and done

> whatever it was we were

> > discussing.

> >

> > Due to medicine being the state religion people do not respond to

> reasoning and logic.

> > They need some invective thrown in to break them out of the glassy

> eyed ritual of letting

> > the priest in the white coat do whatever it is.

> >

> > The fact that most DAN! doctors offer dangerous, harmful and

> inappropriate therapies

> > really is not their fault. They're as much victims of the state

> medical religion as you and

> > your children are. In fact, they took the daring step of thinking

> independently and

> > rejecting the dogma of the human sacrificing vaccine ritual. This

> puts them head and

> > shoulders above other doctors.

> >

> > The DAN! doctors went through the same ritual indoctrination and

> brainwashing as regular

> > mainstream doctors who continue to conduct the human sacrificing

> vaccine ritual. This

> > training is in no way a suitable substitute for education. Thus

> almost no doctors in the

> > physician sense have any real ability to reason and thus no real

> ability to figure out how to

> > come up with new treatments. All they can do is try random things.

> >

> > So the DAN! movement is full of doctors thrashing around, trying

> random things in a

> > heartfelt and sincere effort to help your children. This certainly

> does not make them bad

> > people! They really do believe they're doing the right thing, too,

> as many of them are

> > using these same therapies on their own children, sometimes with

> the same devastating

> > results I commonly hear of and try to prevent when I fill the list

> with invective like " your

> > doctor doens't know anything about medicine. " Their intent is

> good, their heart is in the

> > right place.

> >

> > Unfortunately, chemicals aren't social things. It doesn't matter

> to the chemicals that the

> > DAN! doctors adminster what the doctor wants them to do, any more

> than it mattered to

> > the ethylmercury in the vaccines that turned your child autistic

> that the doctor who

> > administered the vaccine truly believed it was safe (and most of

> them continue to believe

> > this).

> >

> > So I say really horrible, bombastic, insulting things about DAN!

> doctors on the list quite

> > often. I say this to help you protect your children. I don't need

> to say horribly bombastic

> > things about vaccine administering doctors who insist chelation is

> dangeorus and you

> > should never do it, and that it won't work anyway, because on this

> list you have already

> > figured out those doctors truly DON'T know what they are talking

> about and you aren't

> > going to go let them hurt your kids any more. Yet the DAN! doctors

> are head and

> > shoulders above their brethren intellectually and in terms of being

> brave enough to buck

> > the system and try to help. When I criticize them it is for an

> entirely practical and

> > pragmatic reason, not because they are bad people.

> >

> > Hopefully they'll eventually figure out what they are doing. A few

> have, most aren't there

> > yet. In the meantime don't let them hurt your kids. The chemicals

> they administer will do

> > that regardless of the purity of the doctor's motives if they

> aren't used properly.

> >

> > Andy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>>Thanks for the info but how is a Mom who doesn't have a clue where to

start even after reading EVERYTHING go about doing it herself?

For me, I ask questions of people until something makes more sense. I

haven't read too many books or whatever. I can't really follow a lot of the

medical articles or scientific articles, full of jargon and assumptions that

the audience is familiar with certain principles. I read stuff here and

read websites like Dana's View and ask specific questions for specific

problems until I get explanations my mind can use, nevermind that I don't

have a phd or medical degree. After a while, the larger picture begins to

make more sense. Until then, I look for bits and pieces that make sense for

specific, individual issues. Eventually, I start seeing more complex

connections. But I don't have to have those to be sure that a specific

supplement is worth trying for a specific issue.

>>How does a Mom get her child tested for mercury and vitamin defficiencies

on her own?

I have not chelated my sons. But I have learned what specific vitamin

deficiencies typically look like for me and have helped my sons (who are 20

and 18) to figure out what they need based on day-to-day observation of

symptoms and behaviors. I have spoken to enough people who are

knowledgeable about such things to know that the tests for vitamin

deficiences are typically not good indicators anyway. Learning to observe

for symptoms seems to work better and is very affordable.

>>It seems like many of the Mom's on here do alot of trial

and error which seems to me rather like using there children as

guinny pigs.

I did a lot of trial and error on myself. I basically had a sentence of

death (slow and torturous at that) and nothing to really lose. Given how

sick I was and that conventional medicine had the stated position that

" people like you don't get well " , I felt that if I screwed up really BIG and

it killed me, that would be a welcome end to my suffering. I have never

given my sons anything I had not already tried on myself.

>>It would for me anyways as my son is non-verbal and

couldn't tell me if something felt wrong or he felt sick. Are most of

the children doing this protocol over 3 or 4 and verbal?

In my experience, when my oldest was little and mostly non-verbal, he could

still communicate what he did or did not like or if he didn't feel well,

etc. An infant can turn away from something they dislike or cooperate

enthusiastically with something they do like. An infant can spit out food

it doesn't like and make faces at you and cry or smile and giggle and eat

hearty. And so on. It takes more observation but it isn't outright

impossible to get " feedback " from a non-verbal child. I am reminded of

statistics that the majority of communication is in the form of body

language, voice tone, facial expression and so on anyway and the actual

words we use are a relatively small part of it.

>>>Nothing

against these Mom's efforts and I am very interested, but it does

seem rather difficult to really monetor what these vitamins etc are

doing/ not doing without tests.

With learning more about the medicinal properties of various spices, foods,

and so on, I now feel it is naive to think you aren't manipulating your

child's health with every meal. It is better if you do so in an informed

fashion rather than just thinking that changes in their status are " random "

or " caused unpredictably by this genetic disorder, autism, and there is

nothing you can really do about it " . Unless you simply stop feeding your

child altogether, you are already playing with their vitamin levels daily.

The alternative -- never eating again -- has a certain and very negative

outcome (death).

Peace.

--

Michele

talithamichele@...

http://www.atraceofme.com

Send a letter. Get a bumpersticker. Make a difference.

http://www.solanorail.org

[Guest guest]

I started with a DAN! doctor and learned along the way. The learning

curve is steep. There are certain tests difficult or impossible to

get without an MD, but it doesn't mean they are critical tests

standing in the way of healing or greatly improving your child's

quality of life.

DAN! doctors also go by trial and error. I wish I could count the

number of times my DAN! wanted to try something on my son because it

worked on another child. Like it or not, our kids ARE guinea pigs at

times (with or without a doctor's care).

I do understand the hesitation. I wouldn't have started this process

5 years ago without a doctor. Having a doctor got the ball rolling

for us and it provided a bit of legitimacy for my skeptical husband.

I liked seeing those tests (hated the bills) come back showing

problems; as if it justified my concerns. In the long run, I do

think I could have done it myself. I am a fairly conservative parent

as far as treatment regimens go and everything I've done thus far

could have been done without an MD.

Maybe it is a bit different these days, but only a short 5 years ago

the docs were flying blind, too. Don't assume they know what they

are doing because they are doctors. This is still a huge mystery.

I wish you luck!

pam

> >

> > As you all know, I often post very inflammatory and aggressive

> comments when people go

> > to DAN! doctors who offer harmful, dangerous and inappropriate

> therapies, usually at high

> > cost.

> >

> > I have learned I need to do this or there is perfect certaintly

> that a few weeks later there

> > will be a post on the list about this person having gone and done

> whatever it was we were

> > discussing.

> >

> > Due to medicine being the state religion people do not respond to

> reasoning and logic.

> > They need some invective thrown in to break them out of the

glassy

> eyed ritual of letting

> > the priest in the white coat do whatever it is.

> >

> > The fact that most DAN! doctors offer dangerous, harmful and

> inappropriate therapies

> > really is not their fault. They're as much victims of the state

> medical religion as you and

> > your children are. In fact, they took the daring step of

thinking

> independently and

> > rejecting the dogma of the human sacrificing vaccine ritual.

This

> puts them head and

> > shoulders above other doctors.

> >

> > The DAN! doctors went through the same ritual indoctrination and

> brainwashing as regular

> > mainstream doctors who continue to conduct the human sacrificing

> vaccine ritual. This

> > training is in no way a suitable substitute for education. Thus

> almost no doctors in the

> > physician sense have any real ability to reason and thus no real

> ability to figure out how to

> > come up with new treatments. All they can do is try random

things.

> >

> > So the DAN! movement is full of doctors thrashing around, trying

> random things in a

> > heartfelt and sincere effort to help your children. This

certainly

> does not make them bad

> > people! They really do believe they're doing the right thing,

too,

> as many of them are

> > using these same therapies on their own children, sometimes with

> the same devastating

> > results I commonly hear of and try to prevent when I fill the

list

> with invective like " your

> > doctor doens't know anything about medicine. " Their intent is

> good, their heart is in the

> > right place.

> >

> > Unfortunately, chemicals aren't social things. It doesn't matter

> to the chemicals that the

> > DAN! doctors adminster what the doctor wants them to do, any more

> than it mattered to

> > the ethylmercury in the vaccines that turned your child autistic

> that the doctor who

> > administered the vaccine truly believed it was safe (and most of

> them continue to believe

> > this).

> >

> > So I say really horrible, bombastic, insulting things about DAN!

> doctors on the list quite

> > often. I say this to help you protect your children. I don't

need

> to say horribly bombastic

> > things about vaccine administering doctors who insist chelation

is

> dangeorus and you

> > should never do it, and that it won't work anyway, because on

this

> list you have already

> > figured out those doctors truly DON'T know what they are talking

> about and you aren't

> > going to go let them hurt your kids any more. Yet the DAN!

doctors

> are head and

> > shoulders above their brethren intellectually and in terms of

being

> brave enough to buck

> > the system and try to help. When I criticize them it is for an

> entirely practical and

> > pragmatic reason, not because they are bad people.

> >

> > Hopefully they'll eventually figure out what they are doing. A

few

> have, most aren't there

> > yet. In the meantime don't let them hurt your kids. The

chemicals

> they administer will do

> > that regardless of the purity of the doctor's motives if they

> aren't used properly.

> >

> > Andy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hopefully they'll eventually figure out what they are doing. A few have, most

aren't there

> yet.

Maybe I'm naively optimistic, but I think the people on this list can (slowly!)

make a real

difference with this. I've seen two DANs, the first time because I wanted to ask

an MD

whether she thought any kind of blood testing was necessary once I started

chelating with

your protocol, and the second time because I wanted a script for LDN.

In both cases, the DANs did not (and don't, as far as I know) recommend your

protocol for

chelating. But they did not offer even a word of discouragement or disagreement

about it,

and told me it was safe. Now that n has lost his dx, they are interested in

what I've

been doing and asking questions -- something a regular MD would *never do! They

may

not have the technical training to find solutions very efficiently, but they are

at least asking

some of the questions and not sitting around waiting for the answers to be sent

from on

high.

I think as more and more of us get our kids well, and talk to DANs about what

has helped,

more and more of them will come around. Really, subversion of the DAN chelating

protocol is half the reason I still go to her office every once in a while.

Nell

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks for the info but how is a Mom who doesn't have a clue where to

> start even after reading EVERYTHING go about doing it herself?

Just keep reading this list. it will start to get coherent eventually, and

you'll see lots of

reports of how well kids are doing which is very motivating.

>How

> does a Mom get her child tested for mercury and vitamin defficiencies

> on her own?

You can get a hair test from Direct Labs without a doctor which will give a good

indication

of mercury problems or not. No need to test for vitamin deficiencies.

> It seems like many of the Mom's on here do alot of trial

> and error which seems to me rather like using there children as

> guinny pigs. It would for me anyways as my son is non-verbal and

> couldn't tell me if something felt wrong or he felt sick.

Non-verbal makes it harder. But younger makes it easier. The way to do trial and

error

effectively is to read the list and identify the kids who have problems similar

to yours --

then try what's working for them. Trial and error with supplements is a pain in

the neck

but it's not risky -- the worst thing that happens is that the child reacts

badly to

something, you stop giving it, the bad reaction ends, and you're left with a

nearly full

bottle of something you can't use.

The trial and error that goes on here is necessary because there's no other way

to figure

out what kids need. We aren;t doing trial and error with chelating though,

that's set in

stone, Andy's protocol.

Nell

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks for the info but how is a Mom who doesn't have a clue where to

> start even after reading EVERYTHING go about doing it herself?

My son has a dx of " classic Kanner's autism " , severe, low functioning.

He had no development whatsoever, until he was almost 4 years old and

I started biomedical interventions. Today, he is 11 years old and

recovered from autism, altho still delayed in language so not yet

age-appropriate. I recovered him without a doctor.

How

> does a Mom get her child tested for mercury and vitamin defficiencies

> on her own?

I tested " by observation " . I researched his symptoms, asked a lot of

questions, and tried things at low dose.

>> It seems like many of the Mom's on here do alot of trial

> and error which seems to me rather like using there children as

> guinny pigs.

I made educated guesses based on my research and what other parents

advised. Sometimes I made the wrong guess, but my son's reaction,

even when non-verbal, always told me the answer.

I have read many many many messages over the years, by a parent who

would write " this is what my doctor told me to do but now my child is

having problems " . The doctors most of the time know less than you do.

>>It would for me anyways as my son is non-verbal and

> couldn't tell me if something felt wrong or he felt sick.

My son was non-verbal until he was approx 6yo. He was always able to

" tell " me if he felt wrong or sick. His symptoms and behaviors never

lied.

>> Are most of

> the children doing this protocol over 3 or 4 and verbal?

Not my son. I chelated him starting when he was 5-1/2.

Nothing

> against these Mom's efforts and I am very interested, but it does

> seem rather difficult to really monetor what these vitamins etc are

> doing/ not doing without tests.

Keep a daily journal and write EVERYTHING you do, and EVERYTHING he

does. Bms, sleep patterns, behaviors, physical symptoms you notice,

everything. You will soon see correlations.

Read stories of recovery, determine what you want to research and

consider for your child

http://www.danasview.net/recover.htm

Dana

[Guest guest]

I agree. Although I didn't start out with a DAN! I went to one

after deciding on my course of action, told him what I was going to

do and asked if he wanted to help. We meet infrequently and he is

always amazed at the progress we see using the Cutler protocol. He

didn't like the protocol when we started, but we have changed his

mind. And even more exciting, my chiropractor, who has been with us

from the very beginning, is now studying to become a DAN! based on

what he has seen in our children. And he will be a DAN! who is open

to this protcol, having seen it work miracles in my kiddos.

Wyndie

> >

>

> > Hopefully they'll eventually figure out what they are doing. A

few have, most aren't there

> > yet.

>

> Maybe I'm naively optimistic, but I think the people on this list

can (slowly!) make a real

> difference with this. I've seen two DANs, the first time because I

wanted to ask an MD

> whether she thought any kind of blood testing was necessary once I

started chelating with

> your protocol, and the second time because I wanted a script for

LDN.

>

> In both cases, the DANs did not (and don't, as far as I know)

recommend your protocol for

> chelating. But they did not offer even a word of discouragement or

disagreement about it,

> and told me it was safe. Now that n has lost his dx, they are

interested in what I've

> been doing and asking questions -- something a regular MD would

*never do! They may

> not have the technical training to find solutions very

efficiently, but they are at least asking

> some of the questions and not sitting around waiting for the

answers to be sent from on

> high.

>

> I think as more and more of us get our kids well, and talk to DANs

about what has helped,

> more and more of them will come around. Really, subversion of the

DAN chelating

> protocol is half the reason I still go to her office every once in

a while.

>

> Nell

>

[Guest guest]

---

andy,

you had said you do not have to be on diet as you chelate a child.

is this true. I know healthy is good no junk but what about a bagel

or something.

also in you say dan gives drugs what about anit-fungi, bacteria

(vanyo) and not on diet. (but ofcouse eating healthy) can you chelate

while on these drugs if the natual just is not happening?

you seem to us some drugs in your book.

thanks randi

In , " andrewhallcutler "

<AndyCutler@...> wrote:

>

> As you all know, I often post very inflammatory and aggressive

comments when people go

> to DAN! doctors who offer harmful, dangerous and inappropriate

therapies, usually at high

> cost.

>

> I have learned I need to do this or there is perfect certaintly

that a few weeks later there

> will be a post on the list about this person having gone and done

whatever it was we were

> discussing.

>

> Due to medicine being the state religion people do not respond to

reasoning and logic.

> They need some invective thrown in to break them out of the glassy

eyed ritual of letting

> the priest in the white coat do whatever it is.

>

> The fact that most DAN! doctors offer dangerous, harmful and

inappropriate therapies

> really is not their fault. They're as much victims of the state

medical religion as you and

> your children are. In fact, they took the daring step of thinking

independently and

> rejecting the dogma of the human sacrificing vaccine ritual. This

puts them head and

> shoulders above other doctors.

>

> The DAN! doctors went through the same ritual indoctrination and

brainwashing as regular

> mainstream doctors who continue to conduct the human sacrificing

vaccine ritual. This

> training is in no way a suitable substitute for education. Thus

almost no doctors in the

> physician sense have any real ability to reason and thus no real

ability to figure out how to

> come up with new treatments. All they can do is try random things.

>

> So the DAN! movement is full of doctors thrashing around, trying

random things in a

> heartfelt and sincere effort to help your children. This certainly

does not make them bad

> people! They really do believe they're doing the right thing, too,

as many of them are

> using these same therapies on their own children, sometimes with

the same devastating

> results I commonly hear of and try to prevent when I fill the list

with invective like " your

> doctor doens't know anything about medicine. " Their intent is

good, their heart is in the

> right place.

>

> Unfortunately, chemicals aren't social things. It doesn't matter

to the chemicals that the

> DAN! doctors adminster what the doctor wants them to do, any more

than it mattered to

> the ethylmercury in the vaccines that turned your child autistic

that the doctor who

> administered the vaccine truly believed it was safe (and most of

them continue to believe

> this).

>

> So I say really horrible, bombastic, insulting things about DAN!

doctors on the list quite

> often. I say this to help you protect your children. I don't need

to say horribly bombastic

> things about vaccine administering doctors who insist chelation is

dangeorus and you

> should never do it, and that it won't work anyway, because on this

list you have already

> figured out those doctors truly DON'T know what they are talking

about and you aren't

> going to go let them hurt your kids any more. Yet the DAN! doctors

are head and

> shoulders above their brethren intellectually and in terms of being

brave enough to buck

> the system and try to help. When I criticize them it is for an

entirely practical and

> pragmatic reason, not because they are bad people.

>

> Hopefully they'll eventually figure out what they are doing. A few

have, most aren't there

> yet. In the meantime don't let them hurt your kids. The chemicals

they administer will do

> that regardless of the purity of the doctor's motives if they

aren't used properly.

>

> Andy

>

[Guest guest]

>

> As you all know, I often post very inflammatory and aggressive

comments when people go

> to DAN! doctors who offer harmful, dangerous and inappropriate

therapies, usually at high

> cost.

The chemicals they administer will do

> that regardless of the purity of the doctor's motives if they

aren't used properly.

Andy

Hi,

Can someone please outline a short list of the most dangerous of the

therapies referred to here? We are seeing a DAN nutritionist, who

has suggested a number of supplements, which as far as I can tell

seem to be helping my son. I would hate to be ignorant of something

dangerous we may be doing. I really would like a better idea of

what to look out for and potentially avoid. I have read two of

Andy's books, and am aware that the chelation protocol seems

different. We have not yet done any chelation with my son. Is

there something else I should know about routine DAN treatments to

be careful of? Thank you cery much, and thank you all for your time

in assisting parents who are still learning all this.

Carolyn

[Guest guest]

Based on my reading here, some of the DAN therapies that Andy doesn't

recommend include HBOT, IV Glutathione, B12 shots, chelation

protocols using ALA/DMSA other than every 3-4 hours. Others may chime

in.

Madhuri

> >

> > As you all know, I often post very inflammatory and aggressive

> comments when people go

> > to DAN! doctors who offer harmful, dangerous and inappropriate

> therapies, usually at high

> > cost.

>

> The chemicals they administer will do

> > that regardless of the purity of the doctor's motives if they

> aren't used properly.

>

> Andy

>

> Hi,

>

> Can someone please outline a short list of the most dangerous of

the

> therapies referred to here? We are seeing a DAN nutritionist, who

> has suggested a number of supplements, which as far as I can tell

> seem to be helping my son. I would hate to be ignorant of

something

> dangerous we may be doing. I really would like a better idea of

> what to look out for and potentially avoid. I have read two of

> Andy's books, and am aware that the chelation protocol seems

> different. We have not yet done any chelation with my son. Is

> there something else I should know about routine DAN treatments to

> be careful of? Thank you cery much, and thank you all for your

time

> in assisting parents who are still learning all this.

>

> Carolyn

>

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > As you all know, I often post very inflammatory and aggressive

> > comments when people go

> > > to DAN! doctors who offer harmful, dangerous and inappropriate

> > therapies, usually at high

> > > cost.

> >

> > The chemicals they administer will do

> > > that regardless of the purity of the doctor's motives if they

> > aren't used properly.

> >

> > Andy

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > Can someone please outline a short list of the most dangerous of

> the

> > therapies referred to here? We are seeing a DAN nutritionist, who

> > has suggested a number of supplements, which as far as I can tell

> > seem to be helping my son. I would hate to be ignorant of

> something

> > dangerous we may be doing. I really would like a better idea of

> > what to look out for and potentially avoid. I have read two of

> > Andy's books, and am aware that the chelation protocol seems

> > different. We have not yet done any chelation with my son. Is

> > there something else I should know about routine DAN treatments to

> > be careful of? Thank you cery much, and thank you all for your

> time

> > in assisting parents who are still learning all this.

> >

> > Carolyn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My son has not been on any specific diet since 2003. We have been

chelating on and off since 2005. Like you mentioned, I try to feed

him quality foods and mostly organic produce and/or 'natural' (local)

meats.

Pam

> >

> > As you all know, I often post very inflammatory and aggressive

> comments when people go

> > to DAN! doctors who offer harmful, dangerous and inappropriate

> therapies, usually at high

> > cost.

> >

> > I have learned I need to do this or there is perfect certaintly

> that a few weeks later there

> > will be a post on the list about this person having gone and done

> whatever it was we were

> > discussing.

> >

> > Due to medicine being the state religion people do not respond to

> reasoning and logic.

> > They need some invective thrown in to break them out of the

glassy

> eyed ritual of letting

> > the priest in the white coat do whatever it is.

> >

> > The fact that most DAN! doctors offer dangerous, harmful and

> inappropriate therapies

> > really is not their fault. They're as much victims of the state

> medical religion as you and

> > your children are. In fact, they took the daring step of

thinking

> independently and

> > rejecting the dogma of the human sacrificing vaccine ritual.

This

> puts them head and

> > shoulders above other doctors.

> >

> > The DAN! doctors went through the same ritual indoctrination and

> brainwashing as regular

> > mainstream doctors who continue to conduct the human sacrificing

> vaccine ritual. This

> > training is in no way a suitable substitute for education. Thus

> almost no doctors in the

> > physician sense have any real ability to reason and thus no real

> ability to figure out how to

> > come up with new treatments. All they can do is try random

things.

> >

> > So the DAN! movement is full of doctors thrashing around, trying

> random things in a

> > heartfelt and sincere effort to help your children. This

certainly

> does not make them bad

> > people! They really do believe they're doing the right thing,

too,

> as many of them are

> > using these same therapies on their own children, sometimes with

> the same devastating

> > results I commonly hear of and try to prevent when I fill the

list

> with invective like " your

> > doctor doens't know anything about medicine. " Their intent is

> good, their heart is in the

> > right place.

> >

> > Unfortunately, chemicals aren't social things. It doesn't matter

> to the chemicals that the

> > DAN! doctors adminster what the doctor wants them to do, any more

> than it mattered to

> > the ethylmercury in the vaccines that turned your child autistic

> that the doctor who

> > administered the vaccine truly believed it was safe (and most of

> them continue to believe

> > this).

> >

> > So I say really horrible, bombastic, insulting things about DAN!

> doctors on the list quite

> > often. I say this to help you protect your children. I don't

need

> to say horribly bombastic

> > things about vaccine administering doctors who insist chelation

is

> dangeorus and you

> > should never do it, and that it won't work anyway, because on

this

> list you have already

> > figured out those doctors truly DON'T know what they are talking

> about and you aren't

> > going to go let them hurt your kids any more. Yet the DAN!

doctors

> are head and

> > shoulders above their brethren intellectually and in terms of

being

> brave enough to buck

> > the system and try to help. When I criticize them it is for an

> entirely practical and

> > pragmatic reason, not because they are bad people.

> >

> > Hopefully they'll eventually figure out what they are doing. A

few

> have, most aren't there

> > yet. In the meantime don't let them hurt your kids. The

chemicals

> they administer will do

> > that regardless of the purity of the doctor's motives if they

> aren't used properly.

> >

> > Andy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with Andy........

I took Mickie to a DAN doctor back in 2004 and she told me to water

down his only drink without sugar at the time Dare free and she

prescribed all these stuff that just took his appetite away. He ended

up loosing so much weight that I could see death in his face. He

looked like he had just come out of a nazi concentration camp.

I want him to get better, but I want him alive first. It took me three

years to go to another DAN doctor. This time was for HBOT. I smeled a

racket-why the urgency for you to pay ahead of time for treatments

that have to be done 40 days

in a row.

ARI says that 16% of parent reports their children as getting worse.

What if he is part of that 16%. They made me sign a paper, releasing

them of any liability. He only had one treatment. I never went back.

Seems to me there are more people making money off our children's pain

then there are, helping them get better.

Zurama

On Nov 25, 2007 5:33 PM, anumandm <anumandm@...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Based on my reading here, some of the DAN therapies that Andy doesn't

> recommend include HBOT, IV Glutathione, B12 shots, chelation

> protocols using ALA/DMSA other than every 3-4 hours. Others may chime

> in.

>

> Madhuri

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > As you all know, I often post very inflammatory and aggressive

> > comments when people go

> > > to DAN! doctors who offer harmful, dangerous and inappropriate

> > therapies, usually at high

> > > cost.

> >

> > The chemicals they administer will do

> > > that regardless of the purity of the doctor's motives if they

> > aren't used properly.

> >

> > Andy

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > Can someone please outline a short list of the most dangerous of

> the

> > therapies referred to here? We are seeing a DAN nutritionist, who

> > has suggested a number of supplements, which as far as I can tell

> > seem to be helping my son. I would hate to be ignorant of

> something

> > dangerous we may be doing. I really would like a better idea of

> > what to look out for and potentially avoid. I have read two of

> > Andy's books, and am aware that the chelation protocol seems

> > different. We have not yet done any chelation with my son. Is

> > there something else I should know about routine DAN treatments to

> > be careful of? Thank you cery much, and thank you all for your

> time

> > in assisting parents who are still learning all this.

> >

> > Carolyn

> >

>

>

>

>