Re: Does ALA chelation destroy giftedtness?

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: mkarty2007

I heard a DAN doctor said this. What do you think?

====>I think that is not what we saw here, we used Ala from start to finish

and her giftedness is still very much in place, only now everyone can see it and

she can communicate it to others. Who said this?

[Guest guest]

>

> I heard a DAN doctor said this. What do you think?

I have not had that experience at my house.

Dana

[Guest guest]

>

> I heard a DAN doctor said this. What do you think?

I think it is a very extreme statement. Is this doctor referring to

any type of chelation or just ALA chelation?

My son is still very bright but not in a " weird " way anymore. He lost

his obsessions.

I do think that without chelation he might have become someone like

Einstein. Today I am sure he won't, he is too much interested in life,

sports, friends... He might still become a great scientist, but not

the Einstein type.

[Guest guest]

A lot of us imagine that our being bright is related to our being poisoned - but

the causation is wrong.

In the case of lead, it is openly stated in the literature that lead depresses

IQ more in the upper part of the IQ spectrum. As Andy has pointed out on this

list, it appears likely that mercury behaves similarly, though it's effects seem

to lean more towards producing psychiatric symptoms like bipolar and psychosis.

So, removing the metals should allow the person's innate abilities to manifest

themselves. As an example, I've seem some of the parents report on this list

that their chelated kids turn out to be brilliant.

I have at moments wondered if there might be a little something to the mercury

causing intelligence fantasy. There is an effect called " hormeisis " , in which a

small amount of a poison (the experiment I saw used arsenic) can produce what

appears to be positive effects (the experiment I saw showed an increase in the

growth rate of a plant). My experience of mercury is that it's kind of like

speed - except you never come down; and then one day you collapse of exhaustion.

And speed can be a temporary spur to production.

I'll also point out that mercury has always been alchemically associated with

the spiritual world. It gives access to a certain hypersensitivity and in those

of us who develop the compensation to ADD called " hyperfocus " , there is a

capacity to enter a kind of fuge state while we work. A state akin to the

experience of a musician or writer when the muse takes them. The thing is, it's

a false sensitivity and a false spirituality. The real thing doesn't involve

feeling out of control, overwhelmed, anxious, paranoid, at once hypersensitive

and disconnected from out bodily states, and all the other crap we're trying to

deal with here. Instead, it's a state of being at peace with oneself.

Dave.

Posted by: " mkarty2007 " mkarty2007@... mkarty2007

Date: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:08 am ((PDT))

I heard a DAN doctor said this. What do you think?

[Guest guest]

Na. Einstein was very at peace with himself. Perhaps Godel. But Godel became

very paranoid late in life and past a certain point did nothing but stare at the

TV.

Dave.

------------------

Posted by: " ferdeson " ferdeson@... ferdeson

Date: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:58 pm ((PDT))

> >

> > I heard a DAN doctor said this. What do you think?

>

I think it is a very extreme statement. Is this doctor referring to

any type of chelation or just ALA chelation?

My son is still very bright but not in a " weird " way anymore. He lost

his obsessions.

I do think that without chelation he might have become someone like

Einstein. Today I am sure he won't, he is too much interested in life,

sports, friends... He might still become a great scientist, but not

the Einstein type.

[Guest guest]

>

> A lot of us imagine that our being bright is related to our being

poisoned - but the causation is wrong.

This topic is very interesting. Just wondering if there are any

statistics out there showing if there is a higher percentage of

giftedness in the ASD or special needs community vs the NT group? Or

does giftedness occur in both groups equally?

Just wondering what basis the DAN doctor used to make the claim about

ALA removing giftedness

I have a friend whose NT gifted child has multiple issues including

extreme anxiety, emotivity and who has gone through bouts of tics,

self-mutilation and obsessiveness. She is convinced that her child's

issues are psychological only & are related to the giftedness (she

views her child like a quirky little professor) but I just see adrenal

fatigue, PANDAS and possibly other stuff (toxins too) that have

nothing to do with the gift.

[Guest guest]

Toxins (like arsenic) accelerate growth due to the body's " survival

of the species " instinct. Chickens are often fed arsenic in their

feed on purpose, for example, so that they will start laying eggs

earlier. Kids are going into puberty earlier and earlier, because the

body 'knows' that its level of toxins is high, therefore it might die

young, so it needs to start producing offspring earlier. Plants would

probably do the same, have an earlier growth spurt to go to seed

earlier, bloom a flower, or send out roots (however that particular

plant reproduces).

I liked your statement " My experience of mercury is that it's kind of

like speed - except you never come down; and then one day you

collapse of exhaustion. " I remember a natural health practitioner

told us (a class) about an experiment with mice and cold

temperatures. They put the mice in a refrigerator, along with food

and water and plenty of air - but with refrigerator cold

temperatures. The first day they didn't look good, they were sitting

around shivering. The second day they seemed to have adapted. They

were scurrying around and eating and playing. In fact they were more

active than the control mice - kind of hyper. The next day they went

to check on them and they were dead.

So I agree, sometimes it looks like you have adapted okay but in

reality you are burning out on the inside...

>

> A lot of us imagine that our being bright is related to our being

poisoned - but the causation is wrong.

>

> In the case of lead, it is openly stated in the literature that

lead depresses IQ more in the upper part of the IQ spectrum. As Andy

has pointed out on this list, it appears likely that mercury behaves

similarly, though it's effects seem to lean more towards producing

psychiatric symptoms like bipolar and psychosis.

>

> So, removing the metals should allow the person's innate abilities

to manifest themselves. As an example, I've seem some of the parents

report on this list that their chelated kids turn out to be brilliant.

>

> I have at moments wondered if there might be a little something to

the mercury causing intelligence fantasy. There is an effect

called " hormeisis " , in which a small amount of a poison (the

experiment I saw used arsenic) can produce what appears to be

positive effects (the experiment I saw showed an increase in the

growth rate of a plant). My experience of mercury is that it's kind

of like speed - except you never come down; and then one day you

collapse of exhaustion. And speed can be a temporary spur to

production.

>

> I'll also point out that mercury has always been alchemically

associated with the spiritual world. It gives access to a certain

hypersensitivity and in those of us who develop the compensation to

ADD called " hyperfocus " , there is a capacity to enter a kind of fuge

state while we work. A state akin to the experience of a musician or

writer when the muse takes them. The thing is, it's a false

sensitivity and a false spirituality. The real thing doesn't involve

feeling out of control, overwhelmed, anxious, paranoid, at once

hypersensitive and disconnected from out bodily states, and all the

other crap we're trying to deal with here. Instead, it's a state of

being at peace with oneself.

>

> Dave.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

My son is gifted in that he reads at the college level beginning in about grade

5. We have mostly recovered him from dyspraxia and he remains gifted. He is

now in mainstream grade 7 with all A's & B's (except French) and is about 95%

recovered from dysrpaxia. We still have some fine motor and dysgraphic issues

going on but they are slowly recovering too.

I believe that he originally became gifted in this visual area to compensate for

his ears. He had severe auditory processing issues and really could not hear

what the heck was going on around him or process what was going on around him.

But he could 'read' what was going on around him and he downed volumes and

volumes of material.... I simply couldn't keep that kid in books! This allowed

him to 'keep up' in many aspects of life.

Apparently many of our sensory kids have wonderful abilities to read.... and

read at very young ages too so I would encourage all of you to explore this area

with your child.

Thus his 'eyes' kicked in and he became highly visual. I don't believe that he

is unusual in the least and that he is a general example of a child with APD

issues. We corrected the ears, his auditory tonal processing, his auditory

memory and related speech issues..... but his eyes and his visual giftedness is

his to keep!

They are related to two difference senses..... we did work his hyper-peripheral

vision with his eyes but that did not change is abilities either.

Just my opinion on this. Chelation took nothing away.... it just added to his

abilities.

Janice

[Guest guest]

Comments inline.

Posted by: " iam2l84t " mam78@...

iam2l84t

Date: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:30 am

((PDT))

>> A lot of us imagine that our being bright is related to our

being

>> poisoned - but the causation is

wrong.

>This topic is very interesting. Just wondering if there are

any

>statistics out there showing if there is a higher percentage

of

>giftedness in the ASD or special needs community vs the NT group?

Or

>does giftedness occur in both groups equally?

It would be hard to know how to measure. I don't think there is any

scale for " giftedness " . You might use IQ, but mercury depresses that.

>Just wondering what basis the DAN doctor used to make the claim

about

>ALA removing giftedness

I very much doubt that they have any basis at all.

>I have a friend whose NT gifted child has multiple issues

including

>extreme anxiety, emotivity and who has gone through bouts of

tics,

>self-mutilation and obsessiveness. She is convinced that her

child's

>issues are psychological only & are related to the giftedness

(she

>views her child like a quirky little professor) but I just see

adrenal

>fatigue, PANDAS and possibly other stuff (toxins too) that

have

>nothing to do with the gift.

Yes. Like anyone for whom things are basically working, even if there

are problems, there is often no drive to confront issue; and this is the

case even if the roots of the problem are to some extent understood.

There are a lot of very bright ADHD or Bipolar people out there who can

get into that productive " zone " and who have no desire to confront their

toxicity. A couple of my friends are exactly this way. They're willing

to accept the possibility, but not willing to pursue it - even when

their wives have come to the independent conclusion that they are a bit

" autistic " . Remarkably, that attachment to one's illness was identified

by Freud, who recognized that the neurotic holds on to their neurosis as

if giving it up might be like death itself. So it seems it can be the

case for biological illness too.

Families have a similar problem of holding on to symptoms that offer

some kind of benefits, even if they go along with what might be a great

deal of pain. Gifted children are often used by parents for their own

gratification - see Alice 's " Drama of the Gifted Child " . We all

invest a lot of energy into creating a world in which we imagine that

everything is fine and normal, and fight like the dikens anyone who

might suggest that there is something wrong. How do you think they are

going to react if told that their gifted child is somehow damaged? And

that they are the ones who damaged their own child?

I just hope this kid figures it out for himself one day.

Dave.

[Guest guest]

>

> I heard a DAN doctor said this. What do you think?

I think they're insane.

>

[Guest guest]

commentsBelow

Yes. Like anyone for whom things are basically working, even if there

are problems, there is often no drive to confront issue; and this is

the

case even if the roots of the problem are to some extent understood.

There are a lot of very bright ADHD or Bipolar people out there who

can

get into that productive " zone " and who have no desire to confront

their

toxicity. A couple of my friends are exactly this way. They're

willing

to accept the possibility, but not willing to pursue it - even when

their wives have come to the independent conclusion that they are a

bit

" autistic " . Remarkably, that attachment to one's illness was

identified

by Freud, who recognized that the neurotic holds on to their neurosis

as

if giving it up might be like death itself. So it seems it can be the

case for biological illness too.

===This paragraph made me go... " hmmmm, not " ...

===I almost agree, but not quite...and this is totally an opinion,

with a switch in perspective ....It may be that, rather than

feeling " attached to one's illiness, " they could have been rather

bombarded by people who are certain that they can " fix " an underlying

cause, ummm, one too many times. (the now mostly grown " ritalin "

kids I have known/know come to mind) Also, in this kind of scenario,

any high level functioning can be a cherished thing & " messing " with

what is currently working for a person - means that extreme Caution

does seem justified, and a logical reaction, imo...

==Being comfortable with the devil you know, is NOT at all the same

thing as being aware that there are " worse " devils to deal with,yk?

Too often, " other people's " answers can create worse scenarios.

fwiw

wishing all the very best answers

elizabeth

[Guest guest]

> ....It may be that, rather than

> feeling " attached to one's illiness, " they could have been rather

> bombarded by people who are certain that they can " fix " an underlying

> cause, ummm, one too many times. (the now mostly grown " ritalin "

> kids I have known/know come to mind)

Yes, this is part of the human sacrificing ritual of the modern medical

religion.

The doctors chant and chant and chant they are the ONLY experts, and people

believe

them. However since as a rule doctors have very little that can really be

called expertise,

they just try random faddish recipes on people, and toxic people being less

robust than

healthy people do very poorly on a lot of them. Not being stupid, they learn to

avoid

'medical things,' and they certainly aren't going to listen to anyone else when

even the

'experts' are always messing them up.

Andy

[Guest guest]

--- Inof life.

>

> Janice

>

> Fantastic to hear your son is doing so well

what age did you realise he was reading?

how did you solve his auditory issues?

Thanks Caroline.

>

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Wow..I have to say that I agree Dave, my son has become MORE gifted

from his chelation. His beautiful imagination just opened right up and

his interest in all things intellectual, his curiosity and love of

learning. Chelation is allowing him to use his mind. I don't believe

it is destroying anything for us. As an adult with mercury poisoning

who began to lose my gifts, such a writing poetry, and drawing due to

my poisoning..I am regaining those gifts with chelation also.

-- In , Dave - AM & FDC Posts

<mercury@...> wrote:

>

> A lot of us imagine that our being bright is related to our being

poisoned - but the causation is wrong.

>

> In the case of lead, it is openly stated in the literature that lead

depresses IQ more in the upper part of the IQ spectrum. As Andy has

pointed out on this list, it appears likely that mercury behaves

similarly, though it's effects seem to lean more towards producing

psychiatric symptoms like bipolar and psychosis.

>

> So, removing the metals should allow the person's innate abilities

to manifest themselves. As an example, I've seem some of the parents

report on this list that their chelated kids turn out to be brilliant.

>

> I have at moments wondered if there might be a little something to

the mercury causing intelligence fantasy. There is an effect called

" hormeisis " , in which a small amount of a poison (the experiment I saw

used arsenic) can produce what appears to be positive effects (the

experiment I saw showed an increase in the growth rate of a plant).

My experience of mercury is that it's kind of like speed - except you

never come down; and then one day you collapse of exhaustion. And

speed can be a temporary spur to production.

>

> I'll also point out that mercury has always been alchemically

associated with the spiritual world. It gives access to a certain

hypersensitivity and in those of us who develop the compensation to

ADD called " hyperfocus " , there is a capacity to enter a kind of fuge

state while we work. A state akin to the experience of a musician or

writer when the muse takes them. The thing is, it's a false

sensitivity and a false spirituality. The real thing doesn't involve

feeling out of control, overwhelmed, anxious, paranoid, at once

hypersensitive and disconnected from out bodily states, and all the

other crap we're trying to deal with here. Instead, it's a state of

being at peace with oneself.

>

> Dave.

>

> Posted by: " mkarty2007 " mkarty2007@... mkarty2007

> Date: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:08 am ((PDT))

>

> I heard a DAN doctor said this. What do you think?

>

[Guest guest]

are there gifted mercury toxic adults who chelated and got well without

losing their gift?

[Guest guest]

>

> are there gifted mercury toxic adults who chelated and got well without

> losing their gift?

>

Me.

In fact it was very helpful at giving me my brain (as well as energy and

coordination) back.

Andy

[Guest guest]

How do you know that it didn't cause permanent damage?

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with Andy. I have always been very talented in being

able to write poetry and all kinds of stuff. I even crank out

exceptional research papers..with hardly any strain. I was able to see

a word once and always remember how to spell it. I could draw, really

great abstract art...I have an affinity for written language and could

remember so many things most people couldn't. I could also read

through 800 page novels in two days.

I began losing my ability to do these things in my mid twenties as my

poisoning peaked. by the time I was 28 I could not write anything

anymore. I could not think clearly or long enough to organize any

thoughts to write. I was transposing letters all the time, and

forgetting how to spell simple words. I lost any interest in anything

really. I had stopped reading because I could not focus on it or

remember it. Removing my fillings and chelation has given that back to

me. I have begun writing again for the first time in 8 years.

I have actually been able to finally understand and do math. I have

regained my creativity to make things...I feel like I finally got my

mind back. I think that often times talents that show in a mercury

toxic person are really a part of that person..something they are

capable of whether toxic or not. Just that if not toxic, they could

harness the talent and utilize it better.

So for me..I regained my talents with chelation...

>

> are there gifted mercury toxic adults who chelated and got well without

> losing their gift?

>

[Guest guest]

I assume you mean the chelation? For me I can say that it is restoring

my health to what it was when I was younger. Versus the true damage I

saw happening to my body from the mercury exposure. Like the loss of

my peripheral vision, the neuropathy in my hands and feet. Sorry but a

30 year old should not have neuropathy or be losing vision. Or going

insane, or chronically sleeping. All this is GONE now.

Leaving mercury in your body causes progressive damage and eventually

permanent damage. It seems insane to leave it there if there's a way

to remove it and you know you have it in you and it's making you sick.

I find that most people fear chelation will make them worse have been

reading scare stories of improper protocols. I read those stories too.

I saw the huge amounts people were using and how nuts that was.

Learning some basic chemistry, physiology and such can help one to

understand exactly what a chelator will and won't do in the body.

Learning some basic toxicology helps to understand exactly what a

poison does in the body. Weighing the two against each other...it

becomes very clear what route to take.

I chose to rid myself of future cancer and inevitable Alzheimer's and

probably and early death by removing the mercury from my brain/body. I

think with proper knowledge this can be done very safely. It can also

be done recklessly and then you would have damage.

How do I know I have not damaged my body? Because I know how I feel,

how I used to feel. I also get regular blood work and check ups. My

blood work is actually normal now. For years my CBC was a mess, too

many red cells, too small red cells, messed us MCV..all kinds of

things the doctors had no explanation for. And I felt like

crap..everyday.

Now I have normal CBC's and feel like a new person...I eat well, sleep

well and function for the first time in years. This tells me I am not

doing damage but healing my body.

For my son..well he went from a child with Pervasive Developmental

Delay, he was pale, thin and didn't play, had many delays. He is now a

bright, active, intelligent mainstream child. His skin is peachy and

healthy, his eyes bright, he runs and plays like any regular child. He

looks healthy, is healthy and is thriving by all standards.

Mercury causes damage..so does Lead. Why leave it there, unless you

want to insure a future of disease?

>

> How do you know that it didn't cause permanent damage?

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, the mercury (lead too) caused me to lose mine - and kept me from

developing others that I have the feeling may have been there.

In this process of chelation, I see that things are happening, there are subtle

personality changes that I'm appreciating (not to speak of the others around me)

and the head is no longer permanently in a fog. I can't say that I can think

with anywhere near the acuity that I used to be able to though; it's kind of

like molasses in there.

Dave.

Posted by: " mkarty2007 " mkarty2007@... mkarty2007

Date: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:24 am ((PDT))

are there gifted mercury toxic adults who chelated and got well without

losing their gift?

[Guest guest]

Well - I don't, but then I'm not finished this process, so I'll have to wait to

find out ... but -

First, I'd say that whatever happens with chelation, in the end I've lost a

couple of decades of my life. I consider that permanent damage.

Second, I've been toxic since I was a child. I have notes from first grade from

teachers saying that I " appeared bewildered around other children " and I've

never had much of a memory - didn't learn the months of the year until 7th

grade. So, there are developmental issues that won't change. Certain kinds of

experience of the world, I'll never have. That too is permanent damage. I can

live with that one though, because my experiences are still mine. I've learned

from them in my own way, where perhaps I would have been blind to certain

aspects of the world if I had not had them.

So, it's not just about the neurons working, if that's what I get at the end of

this process. It's about incorporating the experience into something

productive, and having the time to do something with it. In that sense, it's an

open question how much damage I'll be left with; but then, being on this list is

in it's own way, productive.

Dave.

Posted by: " letsdetox " letsdetox@... letsdetox

Date: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:02 pm ((PDT))

How do you know that it didn't cause permanent damage?

[Guest guest]

>

> are there gifted mercury toxic adults who chelated and got well without

> losing their gift?

I don't really know whether or not I have a " gift " , but I have not

lost any abilities that I had previously. And several things that in

the past I was able to do but gradually lost the ability, have now

come back.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Interesting and TRUE, Jada.

I always thought the flat mindedness was a consequence of negative

experiences in life when, coming to think of it, it was mercury

unknowingly resigning me to these experiences. And as " Amalgam

Illness " mentions (I think I read it there, but my memory is not half

as brilliant as yours as yet) toxic people tend to stick together and

compound their probs, instead of supporting one another. Mostly

because they ignore the origin of 'their being different, somehow'.

> >

> > are there gifted mercury toxic adults who chelated and got well

without

> > losing their gift?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know it's several months later, but I am revisiting this topic. We

have had an interesting experience with my older son. He used to be

able to rattle off math facts and count the numbers on dice very

quickly and now his cognition in this area has slowed down

considerably. He can no longer add quickly. Last night we were

playing Yahtzee and he commented, " My brain cells are destroyed.

They're taking the yeast out of me. I'm not yeasty at all. My brain

cells are growing back. " I write down the things he says because he

is so intuitive.

Despite of the mathematics decline, he has shown more creativity in

his school work, art, and story writing.

The only thing that really concerns me is that there are still times

where he cannot concentrate, he says his mind goes blank. At these

times it is hard for him to follow directions and retain

information. We have always found written instructions to be a good

tool for keeping him on task. Now that he is playing football, these

moments of " brain fog " are more noticeable because there are no

written instructions for him to follow.

It is the times I see the brain fog and the struggle to find the

right words to say that I question what I am doing. This is a

difficult process and the slow change is about the most difficult

part because it is very hard to see when you are standing so close.

On top of that it is hard to distinguish healing symptoms from

problematic symptoms.

>

> Well - I don't, but then I'm not finished this process, so I'll

have to wait to find out ... but -

>

> First, I'd say that whatever happens with chelation, in the end

I've lost a couple of decades of my life. I consider that permanent

damage.

>

> Second, I've been toxic since I was a child. I have notes from

first grade from teachers saying that I " appeared bewildered around

other children " and I've never had much of a memory - didn't learn

the months of the year until 7th grade. So, there are developmental

issues that won't change. Certain kinds of experience of the world,

I'll never have. That too is permanent damage. I can live with that

one though, because my experiences are still mine. I've learned from

them in my own way, where perhaps I would have been blind to certain

aspects of the world if I had not had them.

>

> So, it's not just about the neurons working, if that's what I get

at the end of this process. It's about incorporating the experience

into something productive, and having the time to do something with

it. In that sense, it's an open question how much damage I'll be

left with; but then, being on this list is in it's own way,

productive.

>

> Dave.

>

> Posted by: " letsdetox " letsdetox@... letsdetox

> Date: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:02 pm ((PDT))

>

> How do you know that it didn't cause permanent damage?

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From:

I know it's several months later, but I am revisiting this topic. We

have had an interesting experience with my older son. He used to be

able to rattle off math facts and count the numbers on dice very

quickly and now his cognition in this area has slowed down

considerably. He can no longer add quickly. Last night we were

playing Yahtzee and he commented, " My brain cells are destroyed.

They're taking the yeast out of me. I'm not yeasty at all. My brain

cells are growing back. " I write down the things he says because he

is so intuitive.

Despite of the mathematics decline, he has shown more creativity in

his school work, art, and story writing.

===>Hi ,

I can only say what happened here. With each round there might be some

differences noted i.e. increased abstract thinking or creativity or even

motivation.

These things would wax and wane on and off round before settling down and

becoming permanent.

I don't think it changed her giftedness at all, I think it was always there

and removing the metals allowed her more access to it.

She did have, before chelation, perfect pitch. She no longer does and I'm

unsure if this is due to maturation and/or chelation.

She can still imitate nearly anyone's voice and sound almost just like them,

not sure what this is.

>