Re: Strategies for Phenolic Anti-fungals like Tanalbit

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: mildcasedad

-Will giving enzymes (No-Fenol) destroy the effectiveness of

phenolic anti-fungals?

====>No

-Are the still a danger even if given with enzymes given the commone

PST defficiency in our kids?

====>No

Any thoughts are welcome.

We will probably try going back to a rotation of Oil of Oregano, Uva

Ursi, and maybe Pau D'Arco and Caprycillic in higher amounts, but

additions would be welcome. [sF722 should be coming this week, but I

think that may be phenolic as well.]

====>It is not recommended to rotate antifungals as you will create a yeast

that is resistant to everything. Others have found this problematic. Better to

find something that works and stick with it.

Thanks in advance.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the feedback, .

Can I ask who suggested not to rotate? I've heard mostly the opposite

up to now, and can see how both opinions could be plausible.

Our current regimen (GSE+enzymes+Yeast Aid) did seem to work better

earlier, so at least changing it seems reasonable.

> -Will giving enzymes (No-Fenol) destroy the effectiveness of

> phenolic anti-fungals?

>

> ====>No

>

> -Are the still a danger even if given with enzymes given the commone

> PST defficiency in our kids?

>

> ====>No

>

> Any thoughts are welcome.

>

> We will probably try going back to a rotation of Oil of Oregano, Uva

> Ursi, and maybe Pau D'Arco and Caprycillic in higher amounts, but

> additions would be welcome. [sF722 should be coming this week, but I

> think that may be phenolic as well.]

>

> ====>It is not recommended to rotate antifungals as you will

create a yeast that is resistant to everything. Others have found this

problematic. Better to find something that works and stick with it.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: mildcasedad

Can I ask who suggested not to rotate? I've heard mostly the opposite

up to now, and can see how both opinions could be plausible.

===>Strongly recommended by Andy NOT to rotate antifungals so as not to create

a yeast resistant to everything. Use whatever works until it is no longer

effective, then switch, don't switch back and forth.

Our current regimen (GSE+enzymes+Yeast Aid) did seem to work better

earlier, so at least changing it seems reasonable.

> -Will giving enzymes (No-Fenol) destroy the effectiveness of

> phenolic anti-fungals?

>

> ====>No

>

> -Are the still a danger even if given with enzymes given the commone

> PST defficiency in our kids?

>

> ====>No

>

> Any thoughts are welcome.

>

> We will probably try going back to a rotation of Oil of Oregano, Uva

> Ursi, and maybe Pau D'Arco and Caprycillic in higher amounts, but

> additions would be welcome. [sF722 should be coming this week, but I

> think that may be phenolic as well.]

>

> ====>It is not recommended to rotate antifungals as you will

create a yeast that is resistant to everything. Others have found this

problematic. Better to find something that works and stick with it.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks again. We'll consider it accordingly.

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: mildcasedad

>

>

>

>

>

> Can I ask who suggested not to rotate? I've heard mostly the opposite

> up to now, and can see how both opinions could be plausible.

>

> ===>Strongly recommended by Andy NOT to rotate antifungals so as

not to create a yeast resistant to everything. Use whatever works

until it is no longer effective, then switch, don't switch back and forth.

>

>

>

> Our current regimen (GSE+enzymes+Yeast Aid) did seem to work better

> earlier, so at least changing it seems reasonable.

>

> > -Will giving enzymes (No-Fenol) destroy the effectiveness of

> > phenolic anti-fungals?

> >

> > ====>No

> >

> > -Are the still a danger even if given with enzymes given the commone

> > PST defficiency in our kids?

> >

> > ====>No

> >

> > Any thoughts are welcome.

> >

> > We will probably try going back to a rotation of Oil of Oregano, Uva

> > Ursi, and maybe Pau D'Arco and Caprycillic in higher amounts, but

> > additions would be welcome. [sF722 should be coming this week, but I

> > think that may be phenolic as well.]

> >

> > ====>It is not recommended to rotate antifungals as you will

> create a yeast that is resistant to everything. Others have found this

> problematic. Better to find something that works and stick with it.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yeast Aid has crospovidone. I don't want that in my child.

mildcasedad wrote:

>

> Thanks for the feedback, .

>

> Can I ask who suggested not to rotate? I've heard mostly the opposite

> up to now, and can see how both opinions could be plausible.

>

> Our current regimen (GSE+enzymes+Yeast Aid) did seem to work better

> earlier, so at least changing it seems reasonable.

>

> > -Will giving enzymes (No-Fenol) destroy the effectiveness of

> > phenolic anti-fungals?

> >

> > ====>No

> >

> > -Are the still a danger even if given with enzymes given the commone

> > PST defficiency in our kids?

> >

> > ====>No

> >

> > Any thoughts are welcome.

> >

> > We will probably try going back to a rotation of Oil of Oregano, Uva

> > Ursi, and maybe Pau D'Arco and Caprycillic in higher amounts, but

> > additions would be welcome. [sF722 should be coming this week, but I

> > think that may be phenolic as well.]

> >

> > ====>It is not recommended to rotate antifungals as you will

> create a yeast that is resistant to everything. Others have found this

> problematic. Better to find something that works and stick with it.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good catch, . We hadn't noticed that but are reconsidering the

Yeast Aid and will probably just do some/most of the equivalent

supplements (albeit that requires still more pills for him, augh).

The amount of crospovidone is likely very small, but it can't do any

good and given the challenges our kids face does not bear the risk.

> >

> > Thanks for the feedback, .

> >

> > Can I ask who suggested not to rotate? I've heard mostly the opposite

> > up to now, and can see how both opinions could be plausible.

> >

> > Our current regimen (GSE+enzymes+Yeast Aid) did seem to work better

> > earlier, so at least changing it seems reasonable.

> >

> > > -Will giving enzymes (No-Fenol) destroy the effectiveness of

> > > phenolic anti-fungals?

> > >

> > > ====>No

> > >

> > > -Are the still a danger even if given with enzymes given the commone

> > > PST defficiency in our kids?

> > >

> > > ====>No

> > >

> > > Any thoughts are welcome.

> > >

> > > We will probably try going back to a rotation of Oil of Oregano, Uva

> > > Ursi, and maybe Pau D'Arco and Caprycillic in higher amounts, but

> > > additions would be welcome. [sF722 should be coming this week, but I

> > > think that may be phenolic as well.]

> > >

> > > ====>It is not recommended to rotate antifungals as you will

> > create a yeast that is resistant to everything. Others have found this

> > problematic. Better to find something that works and stick with it.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Yeast is really rearing up after the 4th round this past weekend, and

> we're trying to think of other things to try. We're already giving

> him GSE + No-Fenol, and Kirkman's Yeast Aid (which contains additional

> Biotin, Pau D'Arco, and Caprycilic).

Try increasing biotin and give it with magnesium.

> The trouble is that some yeast fighters (anti-fungals) like Tanalbit

> (and others) are phenolic.

Yes, most are.

> -Will giving enzymes (No-Fenol) destroy the effectiveness of

> phenolic anti-fungals?

No-Fenol will actually help the anti-fungals work better, because it

breaks down the cell wall of the yeast organism.

> We will probably try going back to a rotation of Oil of Oregano, Uva

> Ursi, and maybe Pau D'Arco and Caprycillic in higher amounts, but

> additions would be welcome. [sF722 should be coming this week, but I

> think that may be phenolic as well.]

I used biotin and GSE. I used the GSE almost every day for over 4

years, it always worked. So rotation is not always required, and in

fact it can cause resistant yeast.

Biotin is what the body normally uses to control yeast on its own, so

you don't need to rotate that either.

The only thing I would recommend rotating would be probiotics.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dana, we may try bumping up the biotin to 5-10mg w/meals as

suggested by Andy.

Taurine may also be a good idea and can be given w/meals (though it's

suggested to give between meals), correct?

Is there a particular form of magnesium that worked well for you, or

is that irrelevant?

Did you see any issues with streptococcus when you used probiotics?

We're considering taking that out for a bit to see if there's an effect.

> > Yeast is really rearing up after the 4th round this past weekend, and

> > we're trying to think of other things to try. We're already giving

> > him GSE + No-Fenol, and Kirkman's Yeast Aid (which contains additional

> > Biotin, Pau D'Arco, and Caprycilic).

>

>

> Try increasing biotin and give it with magnesium.

>

>

> > The trouble is that some yeast fighters (anti-fungals) like Tanalbit

> > (and others) are phenolic.

>

>

> Yes, most are.

>

>

> > -Will giving enzymes (No-Fenol) destroy the effectiveness of

> > phenolic anti-fungals?

>

>

> No-Fenol will actually help the anti-fungals work better, because it

> breaks down the cell wall of the yeast organism.

>

>

> > We will probably try going back to a rotation of Oil of Oregano, Uva

> > Ursi, and maybe Pau D'Arco and Caprycillic in higher amounts, but

> > additions would be welcome. [sF722 should be coming this week, but I

> > think that may be phenolic as well.]

>

>

> I used biotin and GSE. I used the GSE almost every day for over 4

> years, it always worked. So rotation is not always required, and in

> fact it can cause resistant yeast.

>

> Biotin is what the body normally uses to control yeast on its own, so

> you don't need to rotate that either.

>

> The only thing I would recommend rotating would be probiotics.

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

> Taurine may also be a good idea and can be given w/meals (though it's

> suggested to give between meals), correct?

I have given it with food and without food. It did not seem to

matter. I did give it with the EFA supplements, along with carnitine

and CoQ10, as part of mito cocktail.

> Is there a particular form of magnesium that worked well for you, or

> is that irrelevant?

I have used oxide and citrate. Many people say oxide is not well

absorbed, but it seemed to be fine here, altho I was able to take a

little higher dose of citrate before it caused diarrhea.

> Did you see any issues with streptococcus when you used probiotics?

My son never really tolerated probiotics, and I don't remember

individual ingredients now. It may have been the strep strain, it may

not have been that.

Dana