Is this what pediatricians are resorting to now??

[Guest guest]

>

> o..boy.. now where I live.. york,PA... there is a pediatric office..

> threatening to discharge this baby.. if mom does not give the

vaccines... Lia

>

> They'd be doing the baby and the family a hugh service to discharge

them. Tell them I said congradulations, they now can get off the

population controll ride!

Sammy

>

> ************************************** See what's new at

http://www.aol.com

>

[Guest guest]

I guess I don't really see the point in well-kid checkups if they

seem fine.

Anne

>

> > Doctors don't get incentives, fees or any other

> > consideration directly from pharmaceutical companies

> > that are tied to providing immunizations. (We went

> > down this road a year or two ago and I'm not going

> > to argue it again.) That said, this kind of a fee

> > is a non-starter. If you would be otherwise happy

> > with this pediatrician (which appears doubtful) just

> > tell the office to send you a bill for the fee and

> > don't pay it. At some point thereafter you could

> > take it to the local medical society for fee

> > arbitration and probably blow the whole concept out

> > of the water. I doubt the physician would want to

> > have the fee discussed in public by other members of

> > the fee arbitration panel. The far simpler solution

> > is to just change physicians if other practices are

> > accessible to you. A physician who would come up

> > with something as wacky as this may very well come

> > up with a new annoyance later on.

> >

> > Jim

> >

> > ________________________________

> >

> > From:

> > [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

> > ratlenhum@...

> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:48 PM

> > ;

> > chelatingkids2 ;

> > EOHarm ; mb12 valtrex

> > Subject: [ ] Is this what pediatricians

> > are resorting to now??

> >

> >

> >

> > Has anyone else heard anything like this?? My friend

> > told me this today:

> >

> > " So my pediatrician just instated a rule that they

> > are now going to charge a

> > $20 fee for " delaying " or opting out of any

> > vaccinations for inconvenience.

> > Which, neither of my kids have received any their

> > 4-year old shots and some

> > we have passed up completely, so I would have to pay

> > the $20 for both kids at

> > each check-up. Of course, insurance would never pick

> > that up.

> >

> > That's unheard of, right? I'm pretty irritated over

> > that. "

> >

> >

> > This is so wrong on so many levels.

> >

> > Kerrie

> >

> > ************************************** See what's

> > new at http://www.aol.com <http://www.aol.com>

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

The vaccine schedule is now, what, 36 vaccines.

Think of the implications of this schedule

for the income of pediatricians. Without the

schedule, who would go see a doctor when the

child is well? Nobody.

I know some of the vaccines are doubled or

tripled up. But assuming that 36 vaccinations

are administered in 12 well baby visits,

the means $1,200 to $2,400 extra income

per baby at $100 to $200 per visit.

--- anneecbrynn <anneecbrynn@...> wrote:

> I guess I don't really see the point in well-kid

> checkups if they

> seem fine.

>

> Anne

>

>

> >

> > > Doctors don't get incentives, fees or any other

> > > consideration directly from pharmaceutical

> companies

> > > that are tied to providing immunizations. (We

> went

> > > down this road a year or two ago and I'm not

> going

> > > to argue it again.) That said, this kind of a

> fee

> > > is a non-starter. If you would be otherwise

> happy

> > > with this pediatrician (which appears doubtful)

> just

> > > tell the office to send you a bill for the fee

> and

> > > don't pay it. At some point thereafter you

> could

> > > take it to the local medical society for fee

> > > arbitration and probably blow the whole concept

> out

> > > of the water. I doubt the physician would want

> to

> > > have the fee discussed in public by other

> members of

> > > the fee arbitration panel. The far simpler

> solution

> > > is to just change physicians if other practices

> are

> > > accessible to you. A physician who would come

> up

> > > with something as wacky as this may very well

> come

> > > up with a new annoyance later on.

> > >

> > > Jim

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > >

> > > From:

> > > [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of

> > > ratlenhum@...

> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:48 PM

> > > ;

> > > chelatingkids2 ;

> > > EOHarm ;

> mb12 valtrex

> > > Subject: [ ] Is this what

> pediatricians

> > > are resorting to now??

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Has anyone else heard anything like this?? My

> friend

> > > told me this today:

> > >

> > > " So my pediatrician just instated a rule that

> they

> > > are now going to charge a

> > > $20 fee for " delaying " or opting out of any

> > > vaccinations for inconvenience.

> > > Which, neither of my kids have received any

> their

> > > 4-year old shots and some

> > > we have passed up completely, so I would have to

> pay

> > > the $20 for both kids at

> > > each check-up. Of course, insurance would never

> pick

> > > that up.

> > >

> > > That's unheard of, right? I'm pretty irritated

> over

> > > that. "

> > >

> > >

> > > This is so wrong on so many levels.

> > >

> > > Kerrie

> > >

> > > ************************************** See

> what's

> > > new at http://www.aol.com <http://www.aol.com>

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

But why do parents want to go to well-kid check ups if their kid

seems fine and they plan on not vaccinating? For fear of being

kicked out of the practice? Of course, these are all questions I

wish I had been asking before I vaccinated my kiddo....

Anne

> > >

> > > > Doctors don't get incentives, fees or any other

> > > > consideration directly from pharmaceutical

> > companies

> > > > that are tied to providing immunizations. (We

> > went

> > > > down this road a year or two ago and I'm not

> > going

> > > > to argue it again.) That said, this kind of a

> > fee

> > > > is a non-starter. If you would be otherwise

> > happy

> > > > with this pediatrician (which appears doubtful)

> > just

> > > > tell the office to send you a bill for the fee

> > and

> > > > don't pay it. At some point thereafter you

> > could

> > > > take it to the local medical society for fee

> > > > arbitration and probably blow the whole concept

> > out

> > > > of the water. I doubt the physician would want

> > to

> > > > have the fee discussed in public by other

> > members of

> > > > the fee arbitration panel. The far simpler

> > solution

> > > > is to just change physicians if other practices

> > are

> > > > accessible to you. A physician who would come

> > up

> > > > with something as wacky as this may very well

> > come

> > > > up with a new annoyance later on.

> > > >

> > > > Jim

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > >

> > > > From:

> > > > [mailto: ] On

> > Behalf Of

> > > > ratlenhum@

> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:48 PM

> > > > ;

> > > > chelatingkids2 ;

> > > > EOHarm ;

> > mb12 valtrex

> > > > Subject: [ ] Is this what

> > pediatricians

> > > > are resorting to now??

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Has anyone else heard anything like this?? My

> > friend

> > > > told me this today:

> > > >

> > > > " So my pediatrician just instated a rule that

> > they

> > > > are now going to charge a

> > > > $20 fee for " delaying " or opting out of any

> > > > vaccinations for inconvenience.

> > > > Which, neither of my kids have received any

> > their

> > > > 4-year old shots and some

> > > > we have passed up completely, so I would have to

> > pay

> > > > the $20 for both kids at

> > > > each check-up. Of course, insurance would never

> > pick

> > > > that up.

> > > >

> > > > That's unheard of, right? I'm pretty irritated

> > over

> > > > that. "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > This is so wrong on so many levels.

> > > >

> > > > Kerrie

> > > >

> > > > ************************************** See

> > what's

> > > > new at http://www.aol.com <http://www.aol.com>

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > removed]

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > removed]

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > __________________________________________________

> > >

[Guest guest]

Sounds like it's time for a complaint to the state medical board (or

whoever take care of med license).

There's no way an insurance company would pay for this (inconvenience?

for whom?!). Of course, Kim is right. If they are owned by a company

that also owns the insurance company, they are using this as a way to

increase their rate.

Carolyn

>

> Has anyone else heard anything like this?? My friend told me this

> today:

>

> " So my pediatrician just instated a rule that they are now going to

charge a $20 fee for " delaying " or opting out of any vaccinations for

inconvenience.

[Guest guest]

Doctors always have the right to charge for non-insured items as long as the patient will consent to paying for it. But, for this I'd switch doctors and I'd do it very vocally, in front of everyone in the waiting room.

Re: Is this what pediatricians are resorting to now??

Sounds like it's time for a complaint to the state medical board (or whoever take care of med license).There's no way an insurance company would pay for this (inconvenience? for whom?!). Of course, Kim is right. If they are owned by a company that also owns the insurance company, they are using this as a way to increase their rate.Carolyn

[Guest guest]

Ask him for a copy of his " rule " . Ask him what billing code will he

use when he attempts to bill the insurance co. Tell him he must get

a denyal from the insurance co before you will consider paying any

money for anything.

Read the state rules that apply to Medical Doctors. In most states

this would be classifyed as dishonorable conduct. Then see who feels

the inconvenience. It sounds more like an act of retaliation for

delaying the money he might get from the drug company.

The rates that any doctor can charge is set by Medicare rates and

codes.

> >

> > Has anyone else heard anything like this?? My friend told me this

> > today:

> >

> > " So my pediatrician just instated a rule that they are now going

to

> charge a $20 fee for " delaying " or opting out of any vaccinations

for

> inconvenience.

>

[Guest guest]

For the first 12 months I'd go in for regular visits regardless of

vaccinations. I got a kick (and reassurance) out of seeing how much my

baby grew... I think they bank on that curiosity and slam all vaccines

in to the 12-18 month period because they know parents lose interest in

their child's growth as they hit age 2. Most doctors will tell you the

vaccines are added to the existing well-child visit schedule based

solely on convenience (captive audience) and not science.

More thought was put in to my car's maintenance schedule.

Pam

>

> The vaccine schedule is now, what, 36 vaccines.

>

> Think of the implications of this schedule

> for the income of pediatricians. Without the

> schedule, who would go see a doctor when the

> child is well? Nobody.

>

[Guest guest]

The insurance can't deny coverage for you declining treatment. They pay according to level of treatment (15 min. 30 min., etc.) If the doctor has a capitated agreement with the ins co, they don't even worry about that. The insurance co doesn't even know.

As far as copayments go, anything that's not covered by insurance still has to be paid by the patient. This charge would definitely NOT be covered by insurance. It would be handled like a cancellation fee. Your only choice in this circumstance is to LEAVE this dr.

He's not making a good business choice, but it's not illegal.

Re: Is this what pediatricians are resorting to now??

> They're charging you for NOT receiving a service or product?Yes, because the real reason for the visit is to vaccinate. It would be interesting to know if the MD gets paid from the insurance company if you decline the treatment for the visit. I think this is an insurance issue. I would call them and let them know. It is agaisnt the law to charge more than the agreed co-pay amount. Then you have to find out if there is a $$$ incentive for the MD if all the vaccines are up to date. MD's have the right to charge a fee for a broken appointment. I would definately call the insurance company since your insurance is a contract between you and them. It should be very scary to think of the power these MD's think they have. That would bother me a whole lot more then the $20.00 that I would not pay. Call the Insurance company. If they tell you he can do it. Tell them to show you where in you're agreement this was written. Then call the newspaper, or even your state rep.Peggy

[Guest guest]

,

Can you tell me where you're getting the figures? I am researching

this because we have a legislative committee on autim here in AR & I

was told by a developmental pediatrician on the task force that

pediatricians are receiving payments, but nobody on the panel was

entirely sure about where the payments were coming from. The only

thing I've been able to verify (thanks, anagrammy!) is that doctors

who sign up to be part of the Vaccines for Children Program through

the AR Dept. of Health receive $10 per vaccine administered...that

really does add up, but I am not getting the figures you are. Now

here in AR , there is no P4P program except for hospitals from what I

can gather, so maybe the doctors here just aren't raking it in as

much as in other states.

Any further info about payments made for vaxes from any source as

well as who is tracking/publishing docs' vax rates would be helpful.

I want to cut off all heads of this hydra:)

>

> The vaccine schedule is now, what, 36 vaccines.

>

> Think of the implications of this schedule

> for the income of pediatricians. Without the

> schedule, who would go see a doctor when the

> child is well? Nobody.

>

> I know some of the vaccines are doubled or

> tripled up. But assuming that 36 vaccinations

> are administered in 12 well baby visits,

> the means $1,200 to $2,400 extra income

> per baby at $100 to $200 per visit.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/downloads/child/2007/child-schedule-b\

w-print.pdf

The vaccine schedule is on the CDC site.

I am not saying that somebody besides the

patient is paying the doctor. When a patient

appears for a well-baby visit in order to get one

of 36 vaccines, the parent pays the doctor

for the visit.

I am saying the pediatricians have this financial

interest in supporting compulsory vaccinations

and in supporting the existing vaccine schedule

and in supporting the addition of vaccines to

the schedule. Don't you suppose they love

the yearly flu vaccine recommendation and

despise that grocery stores are giving

flu vaccines.

Government is often used by powerful lobbies

to enforce or encourage demand for their

products. Doctors are no different from

any other quasi-monopolist in this respect.

--- Elsass <elsass@...> wrote:

> ,

> Can you tell me where you're getting the figures? I

> am researching

> this because we have a legislative committee on

> autim here in AR & I

> was told by a developmental pediatrician on the task

> force that

> pediatricians are receiving payments, but nobody on

> the panel was

> entirely sure about where the payments were coming

> from. The only

> thing I've been able to verify (thanks, anagrammy!)

> is that doctors

> who sign up to be part of the Vaccines for Children

> Program through

> the AR Dept. of Health receive $10 per vaccine

> administered...that

> really does add up, but I am not getting the figures

> you are. Now

> here in AR , there is no P4P program except for

> hospitals from what I

> can gather, so maybe the doctors here just aren't

> raking it in as

> much as in other states.

> Any further info about payments made for vaxes from

> any source as

> well as who is tracking/publishing docs' vax rates

> would be helpful.

> I want to cut off all heads of this hydra:)

>

>

>

> >

> > The vaccine schedule is now, what, 36 vaccines.

> >

> > Think of the implications of this schedule

> > for the income of pediatricians. Without the

> > schedule, who would go see a doctor when the

> > child is well? Nobody.

> >

> > I know some of the vaccines are doubled or

> > tripled up. But assuming that 36 vaccinations

> > are administered in 12 well baby visits,

> > the means $1,200 to $2,400 extra income

> > per baby at $100 to $200 per visit.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

About 40 percent of health care in the US is paid for by taxdollars (medicare,

medicaid, VA, Bureau of Primary Health Care, prison systems, DOD, etc.) Unlike

in the UK and other socialized medicine countries, to my knowledge there is not

an obvious financial incentive provided by the government. However, there is

are significantly more well baby visits and resulting fees from the high number

of vaccines (2, 4, 6, 12, 18 and 24 months, etc.) I am not sure if HMO's

provide an incentive to their docs for compliance.

I would suggest that your committee consult both the Insurance Commissioner's

office and the Medical Director of the Medicare/Medicaid programs in your state.

They can more fully explain these issues and clarify (or research) any potential

financial incentives.

Hope this helps.

Beth

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

-Aha! Thanks for clatifiying. I thought you were onto a really big

money trail that I could possibly put a stop to...but alas...

-- In , Cowen <mlcowen@...>

wrote:

>

>

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/downloads/child/2007/child-

schedule-bw-print.pdf

>

> The vaccine schedule is on the CDC site.

>

> I am not saying that somebody besides the

> patient is paying the doctor. When a patient

> appears for a well-baby visit in order to get one

> of 36 vaccines, the parent pays the doctor

> for the visit.

>

> I am saying the pediatricians have this financial

> interest in supporting compulsory vaccinations

> and in supporting the existing vaccine schedule

> and in supporting the addition of vaccines to

> the schedule. Don't you suppose they love

> the yearly flu vaccine recommendation and

> despise that grocery stores are giving

> flu vaccines.

>

> Government is often used by powerful lobbies

> to enforce or encourage demand for their

> products. Doctors are no different from

> any other quasi-monopolist in this respect.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- Elsass <elsass@...> wrote:

>

> > ,

> > Can you tell me where you're getting the figures? I

> > am researching

> > this because we have a legislative committee on

> > autim here in AR & I

> > was told by a developmental pediatrician on the task

> > force that

> > pediatricians are receiving payments, but nobody on

> > the panel was

> > entirely sure about where the payments were coming

> > from. The only

> > thing I've been able to verify (thanks, anagrammy!)

> > is that doctors

> > who sign up to be part of the Vaccines for Children

> > Program through

> > the AR Dept. of Health receive $10 per vaccine

> > administered...that

> > really does add up, but I am not getting the figures

> > you are. Now

> > here in AR , there is no P4P program except for

> > hospitals from what I

> > can gather, so maybe the doctors here just aren't

> > raking it in as

> > much as in other states.

> > Any further info about payments made for vaxes from

> > any source as

> > well as who is tracking/publishing docs' vax rates

> > would be helpful.

> > I want to cut off all heads of this hydra:)

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > The vaccine schedule is now, what, 36 vaccines.

> > >

> > > Think of the implications of this schedule

> > > for the income of pediatricians. Without the

> > > schedule, who would go see a doctor when the

> > > child is well? Nobody.

> > >

> > > I know some of the vaccines are doubled or

> > > tripled up. But assuming that 36 vaccinations

> > > are administered in 12 well baby visits,

> > > the means $1,200 to $2,400 extra income

> > > per baby at $100 to $200 per visit.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>