Re: Re: studies from China

[Guest guest]

lotecq@... I'd like to ask you how you do the qigong and taiqi?

Are you focusing your attention on moving the energies, or just going through

the motions?

Just curious, I've tried the exercises myself, but I'm so destracted with

aches and pains and every day life I just can't seem to focus. I've seen

people get well with this. But when you really look at it if you can't feel

the energies and can't focus on them and the intent of the exercises it just

don't work.

Just asking Klaus

In a message dated 3/22/01 11:11:54 PM, lotecq@... writes:

<< Don't know. I have been doing Guolin qigong and Yang taiqichuan long

form for over a year now and haven't noticed any change in my

condition. My PSA has not gone up over that time, but it hasn't

really decreased either. I still have hemmorhoids along with the

cancer. Energy level is about the same. Also, I have been doing

various supplements but not any of the conventional therapies. As

the studies you've quoted suggest, the qigong and taiqi may only

supplement conventional therapy. As in my case, they may be

relatively ineffective without the big guns of chemo and radiation. >>

[Guest guest]

That's why Tai Chi is so over rated as a healing art. Imagine, 23 years

before a form can be done without " a break in concentration. " What would you

want to learn Tai Chi for?

Anyone would be long dead before they could do the form correctly.

Wong

In a message dated 03/23/2001 10:37:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,

lotecq@... writes:

> Let me tell you a true story, Klaus. My teacher's teacher has been

> doing taiqi for over 25 years. In fact both my teach and his teacher

> are in Hong Kong right now receiving instructions from Yang, a

> Yang family member. Anyway, last year a student asked my teacher's

> teacher how long he had to go before he could do the entire Yank long

> form without any break in concentration. He told the student just

> last year. Imagine that! 23 years before a master could go all the

> way through the form without any extraneous thoughts popping into his

> head. I hope that answers your question. Like anything else, the

> concentration will come when it comes. The same is true of the

> healing...if it comes at all.

>

>

> > lotecq@y... I'd like to ask you how you do the qigong and

> taiqi?

> > Are you focusing your attention on moving the energies, or just

> going through

> > the motions?

> >

> > Just curious, I've tried the exercises myself, but I'm so

> destracted with

> > aches and pains and every day life I just can't seem to focus.

> I've seen

> > people get well with this. But when you really look at it if you

> can't feel

> > the energies and can't focus on them and the intent of the

> exercises it just

> > don't work.

> >

> > Just asking Klaus

> > In a message dated 3/22/01 11:11:54 PM, lotecq@y... writes:

> >

> > << Don't know. I have been doing Guolin qigong and Yang taiqichuan

> long

> > form for over a year now and haven't noticed any change in my

> > condition. My PSA has not gone up over that time, but it hasn't

> > really decreased either. I still have hemmorhoids along with the

> > cancer. Energy level is about the same. Also, I have been doing

> > various supplements but not any of the conventional therapies. As

> > the studies you've quoted suggest, the qigong and taiqi may only

> > supplement conventional therapy. As in my case, they may be

> > relatively ineffective without the big guns of chemo and radiation.

> >>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lotecq: I would say that your teachers teacher and your teacher have lost sight of the true form of tai chi. I think they've tried to copy the real thing without knowing much about it. If they've made it so so difficult and long that it takes 23 years before you can do it with focus it's then become a futile effort.

All the teahcers I've spoken with on qigong and tai chi tell me the same thing. You have to feel the chi moving or you may as well be sitting on the couch with a beer wasting your life watching a ball game.

My suggestion to you would be to work heavily on you negativity, and as Pan would say "Find your happy thought". If you're really interested in healing your cancer using a form a qigong, learn about the chi first, and stop putting so much energy into to physical form of the movement. It's like going to church, and lipsinking the hymns, and getting on your knees and pretending to pray. You're just not going to get anything out of it.

I tend to agree with the others, I'm wonder as they are what you are doing on this list. Understand, I don't see a great deal of value in Flax and cc (for myself), but I'm not going to discount the benefits of it for other people. The research I've read show that flax is very beneficial for the body in many ways, it has nutreints in it that supports the heart, prostate, liver, and brain. The cottage cheese has ensymes in it that helps the body to asimilate the flax oil. So I can see how it would help some people.

I think you were way out of line getting down on someone (on this list especially) for sharing a healing experience, because you got hung up on symantics.

Klaus

In a message dated 3/23/01 11:37:14 PM Mountain Standard Time, lotecq@... writes:

Let me tell you a true story, Klaus. My teacher's teacher has been doing taiqi for over 25 years. In fact both my teach and his teacher are in Hong Kong right now receiving instructions from Yang, a Yang family member. Anyway, last year a student asked my teacher's teacher how long he had to go before he could do the entire Yank long form without any break in concentration. He told the student just last year. Imagine that! 23 years before a master could go all the way through the form without any extraneous thoughts popping into his head. I hope that answers your question. Like anything else, the concentration will come when it comes. The same is true of the healing...if it comes at all.

[Guest guest]

Klaus

I agree with you on this. Lot of mystical Tai Chi nuts out there. Maybe

Loctecq should try Chi Lel by Luke Chan.

Wong

In a message dated 03/24/2001 9:10:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, Ma

Skibelt@... writes:

> Lotecq: I would say that your teachers teacher and your teacher have

lost

>

> sight of the true form of tai chi. I think they've tried to copy the real

> thing without knowing much about it. If they've made it so so difficult

> and long that it takes 23 years before you can do it with focus it's then

> become a futile effort.

>

> All the teahcers I've spoken with on qigong and tai chi tell me the same

> thing. You have to feel the chi moving or you may as well be sitting on

the

> couch with a beer wasting your life watching a ball game.

[Guest guest]

You make very good point lotecq, The should have learned something in 200 years. But if it takes 23 years to do the long form without loosing concentration, can you really say that they have learned something.

Luke Chan offeres a video that show a bladder tumor desolving within less than a minute, while chi lel practitioners send healing energy to the bladder. They watch this using ultra sound. Can your Yang guys do this?

Klaus

In a message dated 3/24/01 2:01:03 PM Mountain Standard Time, lotecq@... writes:

Been there, done that -- when Luke first started out. No, thanks, I'll stick with the Yang family. They've been around for some 200 years. They should have learned something by this time.

[Guest guest]

Now Lotecq; I don't understand this at all. You first post said that were getting no benefit from these disiplines, and you didn't beleive in them.

You were bad mouthing these, and now you've just done 180 and are pushing them. You also have a belief that if you have to pay for something it's a bad thing? Don't you think that the Chans have a right to eat, and have a roof over their heads, and clothes to wear? Everything in this world costs, you can't live in this world if you don't make money. One of the premises of Reiki is that there needs to be an exchange of energy ( money) for things you do or the reciepient doesn't honor the gift you gave him.

Also the energy expended by the qigong pratictioners comes from god, or the universe, or spirit, (what ever you like to call it) not from the practitioners so they actually get energized themselves by to this not depleted. If they are getting depleted their doing it wrong.

But if it takes 23 years to get the point were you've tamed your mind, I can't see how this could help you in your present state with the cancer. In 23 years you will have been dead and buried and many years. I think it would more advantagous to open to using a process that will work a bunch faster than this.

In a message dated 3/24/01 11:47:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, lotecq@... writes:

Call me negative, call me wierd, call me anything you like, but taiqi works and so does qigong, any style. Now when I say works that doesn't mean either one will cure every single disease on the face of the earth. Or even yours or mine, but they will make us healthier.

But that's NOT why the ancients created them. They were created for spiritual health. So, don't try to attach something to them. You'll contaminate them, bastardize them. Just practice for the sake of practice with nothing to attain. And when you attain nothing, let it go, too.

[Guest guest]

You're right Tristan it's pointless to argue with someone like.

He's already been asked to leave, It didn't work.

Maybe if we ignore him he'll go away.

In a message dated 3/25/01 10:31:59 AM Mountain Standard Time, Tristan011@... writes:

here lotecq goes again being very passive-aggressive and devious: i, too, saw his posts as totally 180 degrees and contradictory, and there is absolutely no need whatsoever to play his silly idiotic game of defending yourself here skibelt; others here on the list see exactly what this moron has been doing and now he is using an age-old sociopath device of TRIANGULATING which is where he says whatever he feels will split and divide his opposition; he appears to be a very sick individual and should not be treated lightly. His techniques and mechanisms for creating and intensifying bickering and strife here on this list are QUITE subtle and effective, as we have just seen! I suspect very strongly he has quite a history of doing this on many lists and worsening the situation until he is banned.... I'm quite sure this is not the 1st he has aired hie poisonous diatribes on and won't be the last.. My feeling is that it is in the best interests of the majority of this list if he was politely asked to go elsewhere.

[Guest guest]

here lotecq goes again being very passive-aggressive and devious:

i, too, saw his posts as totally 180 degrees and contradictory, and

there is absolutely no need whatsoever to play his silly idiotic game of

defending yourself here skibelt; others here on the list see exactly what

this moron has been doing and now he is using an age-old sociopath device

of TRIANGULATING which is where he says whatever he feels will split

and divide his opposition; he appears to be a very sick individual and

should not be treated lightly.

His techniques and mechanisms

for creating and intensifying bickering and strife here on this list are

QUITE subtle and effective, as we have just seen!

I suspect very strongly he

has quite a history of doing this on many lists and worsening the situation

until he is banned....

I'm quite sure this is not

the 1st he has aired hie poisonous diatribes on and won't be the last..

My feeling is that it is

in the best interests of the majority of this list if he was politely asked

to go elsewhere.

lotecq@... wrote:

Would it be too much trouble for you to

please cut and paste the

quote where I supposedly stated that I don't believe in qigong

and

also the part about the Chans not having the right to eat and have

a

roof over their heads, etc.,etc.,etc., so everyone can read it.

Thank you so much,

lotecq

> Now Lotecq; I don't understand this at all. You first

post said

that were

> getting no benefit from these disiplines, and you didn't beleive

in

them.

> You were bad mouthing these, and now you've just done 180 and

are

pushing

> them. You also have a belief that if you have to pay for

something

it's a

> bad thing? Don't you think that the Chans have a right

to eat, and

have a

> roof over their heads, and clothes to wear? Everything

in this

world costs,

> you can't live in this world if you don't make money. One

of the

premises of

> Reiki is that there needs to be an exchange of energy ( money)

for

things you

> do or the reciepient doesn't honor the gift you gave him.

>

> Also the energy expended by the qigong pratictioners comes from

god, or the

> universe, or spirit, (what ever you like to call it) not

from the

> practitioners so they actually get energized themselves by to

this

not

> depleted. If they are getting depleted their doing it wrong.

>

> But if it takes 23 years to get the point were you've tamed your

mind, I

> can't see how this could help you in your present state with

the

cancer. In

> 23 years you will have been dead and buried and many years.

I

think it would

> more advantagous to open to using a process that will work a

bunch

faster

> than this.

>

>

> In a message dated 3/24/01 11:47:06 PM Mountain Standard Time,

> lotecq@y... writes:

>

>

> > Call me negative, call me wierd, call me anything you like,

but

taiqi

> > works and so does qigong, any style. Now when I say works

that

> > doesn't mean either one will cure every single disease on the

face of

> > the earth. Or even yours or mine, but they will make

us

healthier.

> > But that's NOT why the ancients created them. They were

created

for

> > spiritual health. So, don't try to attach something to

them.

You'll

> > contaminate them, bastardize them. Just practice for

the sake of

> > practice with nothing to attain. And when you attain

nothing,

let it

> > go, too.

> >

> >

Learn more about cancer:

http://home.online.no/~dusan/diseases/cancer/

http://home.online.no/~dusan/diseases/cancer/faq.htm

http://www.geocities.com/~mycleanse/

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1158

You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to

the egroups.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/25/01 11:31:53 AM, Tristan011@... writes:

<< My feeling is that it is

in the best interests of the majority of this list if he was politely asked

to go elsewhere. >>

Politely asking this guy to do anything is not likely to get results. I

suggest we bypass him entirely and request the list owner to remove him.

We've had more traffic on this list in the past week than we have had in the

past 2 months -- and very little of it has been in any way constructive.

Most of us with cancer already have enough negatives in our lives -- this

list sure doesn't need to be one of them.

If the list owner can't be persuaded, then I would suggest we stop giving

this fellow the attention he obviously craves, and simply ignore everything

he posts from now on.

Liz

[Guest guest]

I don't believe anyone in history has ever spent

23 years doing one exercize. When does he

eat, sleep, or procreate? I spend about one

hour a day and hate it. Best, JR

You make very good point lotecq, The should have learned something in 200 years. But if it takes 23 years to do the long form without loosing concentration, can you really say that they have learned something.

Luke Chan offeres a video that show a bladder tumor desolving within less than a minute, while chi lel practitioners send healing energy to the bladder. They watch this using ultra sound. Can your Yang guys do this?

Klaus

In a message dated 3/24/01 2:01:03 PM Mountain Standard Time, lotecq@... writes:

Been there, done that -- when Luke first started out. No, thanks, I'll stick with the Yang family. They've been around for some 200 years. They should have learned something by this time.

Learn more about cancer:

http://home.online.no/~dusan/diseases/cancer/

http://home.online.no/~dusan/diseases/cancer/faq.htm

http://www.geocities.com/~mycleanse/

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1158

You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the egroups.

[Guest guest]

Tristan and Heckelk,

Please stop engaging in name calling on this list. You may have negative

opinions about other individuals, but there are more constructive ways to

express your disagreements than to call people morons, pricks, weirdos, etc.

State your disagreement and your reasons for it, don't call names. If

anybody should be banned from the list it is people who engage in this kind

of behavior. I have not seen anything from lotecq nearly as offensive as

the posts I have seen from you two.

Mark

[Guest guest]

i'd have to agee. i have cancer in advanced stages and i do use flax oil. if you consume too much you have bowel problems and thats the last thing you need when you are aalready sick. its good that your uncle is getting better but i 'd wait for a while first before believing hes cured. according to my doctors i've been cured many times in the last 8 yrs and it still keeps coming back.

Re: [ ] Re: studies from China

Lotecq: I would say that your teachers teacher and your teacher have lost sight of the true form of tai chi. I think they've tried to copy the real thing without knowing much about it. If they've made it so so difficult and long that it takes 23 years before you can do it with focus it's then become a futile effort. All the teahcers I've spoken with on qigong and tai chi tell me the same thing. You have to feel the chi moving or you may as well be sitting on the couch with a beer wasting your life watching a ball game. My suggestion to you would be to work heavily on you negativity, and as Pan would say "Find your happy thought". If you're really interested in healing your cancer using a form a qigong, learn about the chi first, and stop putting so much energy into to physical form of the movement. It's like going to church, and lipsinking the hymns, and getting on your knees and pretending to pray. You're just not going to get anything out of it. I tend to agree with the others, I'm wonder as they are what you are doing on this list. Understand, I don't see a great deal of value in Flax and cc (for myself), but I'm not going to discount the benefits of it for other people. The research I've read show that flax is very beneficial for the body in many ways, it has nutreints in it that supports the heart, prostate, liver, and brain. The cottage cheese has ensymes in it that helps the body to asimilate the flax oil. So I can see how it would help some people. I think you were way out of line getting down on someone (on this list especially) for sharing a healing experience, because you got hung up on symantics. Klaus In a message dated 3/23/01 11:37:14 PM Mountain Standard Time, lotecq@... writes:

Let me tell you a true story, Klaus. My teacher's teacher has been doing taiqi for over 25 years. In fact both my teach and his teacher are in Hong Kong right now receiving instructions from Yang, a Yang family member. Anyway, last year a student asked my teacher's teacher how long he had to go before he could do the entire Yank long form without any break in concentration. He told the student just last year. Imagine that! 23 years before a master could go all the way through the form without any extraneous thoughts popping into his head. I hope that answers your question. Like anything else, the concentration will come when it comes. The same is true of the healing...if it comes at all. Learn more about cancer:http://home.online.no/~dusan/diseases/cancer/http://home.online.no/~dusan/diseases/cancer/faq.htmhttp://www.geocities.com/~mycleanse/http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1158You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the egroups.