Guest guest Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 In a message dated 11/22/2001 8:41:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, crystalpyramid@... writes: > I think the following quote is attributed to Pasteur, " the microbe is > nothing, the environment is everything " . It is well known that the human > body routinely harbours the most deadly viruses etc., BUT a functioning > immune system keeps them in check. So I posit as many have that any disease > needs more than a " causative agent " , it needs an environment in which it > can thrive, meaning that the " cause " needs to be seen in the whole person. > Someone wrote, " there are no diseases, there are only sick people " . > > Cancer occurs when cells mutate and replicate. The immune system doesn't see the cancer and therefore doesn't attack it. So it doesn't matter if the immune system is 250% healthy. If it can't see it it won't attack it. There are no greater incidences of cancer with people who have immune diseases such as lupus and AIDS. If you believe it's the immune system that is involved why is this true? Actually being in this forum I do do understand the tremendous frustration many have for conventional medicine and why people are seeking other alternatives. Happy Thanksgiving everyone I personally am going to enjoy Turkey and stuffing Best, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 In a message dated 11/22/2001 2:43:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, MikeAld@... writes: > Happy Thanksgiving everyone > > I personally am going to enjoy Turkey and stuffing > > Best, > Even after the list owners write and say they want this stopped---it continues. Too bad you dont have the guts to do something about this blatant insult to the rest of us trying to get well!!! And the smiley face is just more of an insult!!! I'm outta here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2001 Report Share Posted November 22, 2001 > >I think the above beautifully describes where conventional medicine >thinking errs, and blatantly so. It is the definiton and >understanding of " cause " . > >Is the " cause " of lung cancer truly and only cigarettes? Then how >come not every smoker invariably contracts it? > >I think the following quote is attributed to Pasteur, " the microbe >is nothing, the environment is everything " . It is well known that >the human body routinely harbours the most deadly viruses etc., BUT >a functioning immune system keeps them in check. So I posit as many >have that any disease needs more than a " causative agent " , it needs >an environment in which it can thrive, meaning that the " cause " >needs to be seen in the whole person. Someone wrote, " there are no >diseases, there are only sick people " . The quote is indeed from Pasteur. It was made on his deathbed where he realized that his germ-theory was wrong. > >And this enironment is also decisively influenced by thoughts and >feelings. As I wrote before, Indian yogis are known to have >swallowed poison with impunity. One of my favourite spiritual >teachers, Seth, says (paraphrased), " your public health warnings >such as warnings concerning the cancer hazard of cigarettes, urging >women to get checked for breast cancer etc. have CAUSED more cancers >than any ingredient in cigarettes etc ever would, due to the power >of thought and belief. This is also how people are known to have >died within 24 hours after learning that they had been " cursed " in >this manner by a Vodoo practitioner. When people receive a shock, >their leucocyte count instantaneously drops to 10% of normal >(correct me if the numbers are wrong). Similar things will apply to >living in constant stress (such as being told that one has an > " incurable " disease) etc. > -- -- Neil Jensen: neil@... The WWW VL: Sumeria http://www.sumeria.net/ " Dragons is sooooo stupid! " -- Yosemite Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 At 20:58 22.11.2001 -0500, you wrote: > > >Even after the list owners write and say they want this stopped---it >continues. >Too bad you dont have the guts to do something about this blatant insult to >the rest of us trying to get well!!! And the smiley face is just more of an >insult!!! > >I'm outta here. > Not everyone who posts here, read my message. Members who receive digest version will read it in tomorrow digest. Agnes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 So I posit as many have that any disease >> needs more than a " causative agent " , it needs an environment in which it >> can thrive, meaning that the " cause " needs to be seen in the whole person. >> Someone wrote, " there are no diseases, there are only sick people " . >Cancer occurs when cells mutate and replicate. The immune system doesn't see >the cancer and therefore doesn't attack it. > >So it doesn't matter if the immune system is 250% healthy. If it can't see it >it won't attack it. > >There are no greater incidences of cancer with people who have immune >diseases such as lupus and AIDS. If you believe it's the immune system that >is involved why is this true? Ok, we will have to explicitly define " environment " in a larger sense than just " immune system " (I never meant to reduce the meaning of „environment " to the immune system, btw). „Environment " to me is the whole person or rather all four (or seven) bodies postulated by " esoteric science " , which are the spiritual, mental, emotional and " physical " body. So this would be the environment to be considered. For someone whose work I highly recommend and who has studied the human energy bodies and their relationship to health and disease extensively, see the books of ex-NASA physicist Barbara Brennan. She has left her previous position to study the energetic nature of the human body and become a „healer " . The question is " WHY does the body ALLOW some of its own cells to mutate in the first place " ? Why does the normal healthy pattern/blueprint mutate? Why does the body allow itself to begin a course that if unchecked may result in auto-destruction? What *energetics* are behind it? Another favourite teacher of mine, Orin, says (paraphrased): „Disease is a blockage of energy " , and Brennan’s work goes in the same direction. As everything physical, our body is basically empty space made of energy moving in a certain pattern with atoms thrown in swirling at tremendous distances from each other, and it only seems solid because of the way our senses (eyes, touch etc) perceive it. It somehow seems very easy to influence this „material " but in reality so ethereal and unsubstantial thing called body with our thoughts and other „non-palpable " things (ie energy), and there are books written on this, the so-called miraculous cures ... „Miracles are just nature unhampered " (by beliefs to the contrary), is another Seth quote in point. I feel that apart from a physical cleansing, a mental and emotional searching and cleansing may be among the most important things to do in any type of disease to „remove " the energies (such as thoughts, negative emotions, unresolved trauma, for instance) which prevent the body from functioning at peak performance and health. I was recently sent an example of cancer development being elucidated via „family constellation " , a very successful new approach to healing emotional trauma etc. Light and peace, Ulla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2001 Report Share Posted November 23, 2001 My favorite esoteric author is the late Rodney Collin, a student of P.D. Ouspensky. In his book " The theory of Celestial Influence " , he described disease as a manifestation of the " Cosmic Processes " of " Corruption. " A brief quote: " To understand the corruptive process, we have to understand the idea of poison in a much wider sense than we are accustomed. There are physical poisons, intellectual poisons, emotional poisons. There are poisonous drugs, poisonous insects and poisonous men. One may suffer from a poisoned finger, a poisoned mind or a poisoned society. And in every case the nature of the poison is that it undermines the unity of the organism, cuts off the part from the life-flow of the whole and leaves it to fester helplessly on its own. " There is much talk today about bacteria as agents of disease. But almost all kinds of bacteria exist everywhere. The healthy body, with its own strong magnetic field, has a natural immunity to inimical micro-organisms. They can take no hold on it, unless its vitality and unity are already undermined by inner poisons. Once corruption sets in, bacteria certainly help to break up and dispose of an ill organism, just as worms help to break up and dispose of a corpse. They are the demolition men of nature, whose function is to get unsafe structures out of the way as quickly as possible. The really healthy body is in little more danger from an attack by them, than it is from an attack by maggots. " The book's complete chapters on Corruption (disease) and Healing are online at: <http://www.sumeria.net/health/theory.html>. > >Ok, we will have to explicitly define " environment " in a larger >sense than just " immune system " (I never meant to reduce the meaning >of „environment " to the immune system, btw). > >„Environment " to me is the whole person or rather all four (or >seven) bodies postulated by " esoteric science " , which are the >spiritual, mental, emotional and " physical " body. So this would be >the environment to be considered. For someone whose work I highly >recommend and who has studied the human energy bodies and their >relationship to health and disease extensively, see the books of >ex-NASA physicist Barbara Brennan. She has left her previous >position to study the energetic nature of the human body and become >a healer " . [snip] -- -- Neil Jensen: neil@... The WWW VL: Sumeria http://www.sumeria.net/ " Dragons is sooooo stupid! " -- Yosemite Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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