Guest guest Posted October 11, 1998 Report Share Posted October 11, 1998 Dear I agree with . Lumping people together is prejudicial which I am definitely not. I had a shockingly bad experience with one hospice company and a few very bad hospice nurses. I never expected this from such an organization. Unfortunately, it was both a mind boggling experience and an eye opener me. Just the word " hospice " says to me ... it's OK we will be there to help you through this most difficult period in your life be it the patient or the family. Well, things just aren't always what you expect. Be prepared. Just a few weeks ago one of my friends and neighbors passed away from cancer and another hospice company did an absolutely wonderful job. I applaud your daughter and her profession and I'm sure she makes her mom proud as well as Hospice. Keep well, Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 1998 Report Share Posted October 11, 1998 Dear I don't believe I personally have lumped all hospice care givers together. I am very very happy that your daughter is caring for people with compassion and empathy. Would that my mom had received such care instead of the nightmare from hell. It is not realistic to assume " everyone " in the business of caring for others during this most difficult of all times is as your daughter and the company employing her to provide care. Had I intended to blast all hospice programs I would have done so. However, being a mature adult person, I too know that there are both good people and bad people, and those in between who sit on the fence. My purpose in posting to Liz as I did, which is repeated here, was to commiserate with her and not to denigrate all hospice programs. Please accept my apology, if anything I wrote let you to think otherwise. I believe after the experience with a hospice organization that not only increased my mom's suffering, but was also made blatant attempts to hurry the process in order to maximixe their profit margin, that it behooves all of us to take a little more time and be selective about the hospice programs out there and make an informed choices for our loved ones. By doing so, it can make all the difference in the world in how our loved ones are eased and cared for during their terminal illness and eventual deaths. I believe it is my moral duty to at least allude to the fact that not all hospice programs operate under guidelines with the patient's welfare and comfort at heart. To do otherwise, would be to leave people ignorant of the vultures that can and do exist to prey on the unwary. How else would people ever be forewarned to make informed decisions, rather than just accept the first program offered or the most readily available program? While I am not stupid, I was blindly ignorant of these facts of life concerning " some " providers of hospice care. I cannot turn back time and undo the harm done to my mother, but I can and will in good conscience warn others to make informed choices. Wishing us all health and freedom from pain, both physical and emotional - wrote: > I understand what you wrote about " hospice " as I've had the misfortune > to share a similar experience when caring for my mom before she passed. > It's too bad that there are always vultures out there who are willing to make > a buck skimming and cheating even the terminally ill all in the name of greed. > Jeand@... wrote: > From: jeand@... > > I'm so sorry that some of you have had bad experiences with hospice organizations, but please, please don't run down ALL hospice companies. > > And I may be a little prejudiced, but my daughter is a hospice caregiver. Her company has received many letters of thanks because of the care she has given their loved ones. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 I don't think that Vince meant anything detrimental in the statement, especially toward hospice care. I took it to mean that a victim is someone who has willingly subrogated, or limited their choices to the current methods of medical science, and go peacefully to a hospice. What he intended, in my opinion, is to assert that people should get off that conveyor belt, and try other methods. Not blindly surrender their health and treatments to established medicine. In other words, don't go willingly into the grist mill when there may be other opportunities to try and fight it, to become a survivor, not a victim. I wholly agree with the intent of that statement. Chuck Kathy wrote: > In a message posted yesterday Vince stated.... " Victims are all > those polite people who are laying on the conveyor belt that > channels them to hospice. Winners are among those who wake up and > bolt. " > > I have been in contact with our local hospice to see what they have > to offer. I learned our hospice is made up of volunteers, home > support nurses and pallative care doctors...they are there to assist > those coping with a fatal disease through counselling and home > support, but have no pallative care residences or beds like some > areas have. I was assured they accept whatever treatment choices > the sick person has chosen for themselves...traditional or > alternative and their only goal is to help those who are ill and > their friends and family. > > Your statement sounds like you are not in favour of hospice > Vince....could you explain why, if that is the case. Could others > also share their hospice experiences good and bad. > > Thanks... > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 There are times when death, no matter the cause, is going to occur and thankfully there is a Hospice for those that 'need' it. Some of the most 'prominent' people providing 'natural' advice tell us that there are times that no matter what is done, it may not be effective and so we die. There are those that say we can simply 'fast' our way to a peaceful death if we are at that stage but I haven't tried it so cannot comment on it. Reading comprehension is needed when looking at an e-mail. Simply reading that people may be on a 'conveyor belt to Hospice' does not mean Hospice is bad nor did it imply to me that the writer thinks it is bad. We have been playing into the semantics game for about a week now and we need to stop worrying when someone uses 'Victim'. I use it too. Should I use 'challenged' instead of the word victim? Words- that is all they are. Concentrate on healing your body defeat this scourge or any one of us may become a 'victim'.........and if not a victim, perhaps a body. Joe C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 --The grim reeper. Though job,especially knowing that others who requested their services have also lost hope! I always remember my MOMS words (thats what families do). She expected dignity - not having a stranger bath -wipe her butt etc... That was one time where I actually felt needed and the joy of being with her over came the fears of the outcome. Yes, watching her spirit leave her body upset me,but knowing her reward of death also brought a feeling of pleasure and comfort. HHP, Larry Gubi <gubisara@...> wrote: > Dear Kathy, > I'm sure will respond to your message and > will explain things in his > own words. I, however wanted to reflect a bit of my > thoughts on this matter. > In my opinion it is not hospices per se as places > that provide terminal > patients with paliative care that are the object of > the frustration and > anger. The hospice merely represents the sad end > result (the last stop) of > an attitude shared by so many people with cancer who > rather die than disobey > their conventional doctors, whom they so wrongly > revere as half gods. > It is this sad attitude and frame of mind, that in > the majurity of cases, > lead them through a painful procession to the bitter > end. > It is, on the other hand, the independent > thinkers, those who are free > of authority obedience conflict, who share the > attitude that it is first and > most them who are in charge of their health who have > a much better chance of > beating this disease. > This is also exactly where holistic/alternative > medicine differs > philosophically from conventional medicine. > > Hugs to you and Mel, > Gubi > > [ ] hospice > > > > In a message posted yesterday Vince stated.... > " Victims are all > > those polite people who are laying on the conveyor > belt that > > channels them to hospice. Winners are among those > who wake up and > > bolt. " > > > > I have been in contact with our local hospice to > see what they have > > to offer. I learned our hospice is made up of > volunteers, home > > support nurses and pallative care doctors...they > are there to assist > > those coping with a fatal disease through > counselling and home > > support, but have no pallative care residences or > beds like some > > areas have. I was assured they accept whatever > treatment choices > > the sick person has chosen for > themselves...traditional or > > alternative and their only goal is to help those > who are ill and > > their friends and family. > > > > Your statement sounds like you are not in favour > of hospice > > Vince....could you explain why, if that is the > case. Could others > > also share their hospice experiences good and bad. > > > > Thanks... > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Dear Kathy, I'm sure will respond to your message and will explain things in his own words. I, however wanted to reflect a bit of my thoughts on this matter. In my opinion it is not hospices per se as places that provide terminal patients with paliative care that are the object of the frustration and anger. The hospice merely represents the sad end result (the last stop) of an attitude shared by so many people with cancer who rather die than disobey their conventional doctors, whom they so wrongly revere as half gods. It is this sad attitude and frame of mind, that in the majurity of cases, lead them through a painful procession to the bitter end. It is, on the other hand, the independent thinkers, those who are free of authority obedience conflict, who share the attitude that it is first and most them who are in charge of their health who have a much better chance of beating this disease. This is also exactly where holistic/alternative medicine differs philosophically from conventional medicine. Hugs to you and Mel, Gubi [ ] hospice > In a message posted yesterday Vince stated.... " Victims are all > those polite people who are laying on the conveyor belt that > channels them to hospice. Winners are among those who wake up and > bolt. " > > I have been in contact with our local hospice to see what they have > to offer. I learned our hospice is made up of volunteers, home > support nurses and pallative care doctors...they are there to assist > those coping with a fatal disease through counselling and home > support, but have no pallative care residences or beds like some > areas have. I was assured they accept whatever treatment choices > the sick person has chosen for themselves...traditional or > alternative and their only goal is to help those who are ill and > their friends and family. > > Your statement sounds like you are not in favour of hospice > Vince....could you explain why, if that is the case. Could others > also share their hospice experiences good and bad. > > Thanks... > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Usually oncologists orchestrate a show of aggressive treatment for metastatic cancers. The pretense and the fantasy is that these treatments are of curative intent. Once a cancer is metastatic (especially if there is distant metastasis) there is very little to hope for under the conventional model of treatment. The major intent here is to extend life a few months, maybe more, if the chemo doesn't kill in the process. As the patient is usually ravaged by the chemo process -- and there is no hiding the fact that chemo only works for a while because of multiple drug resistance -- this period of time is used by the patient and the family to slowly come to grips with the fact that death is the outcome of this ordeal, not health. Once the real prognosis can no longer be hidden, then the treatment becomes openly palliative. The insurance funds and personal assets become depleted, and hospitals and oncologists sometimes become a bit less aggressive in hustling the patients into expensive treatments. Hospice may be recommended. If the patient has a good PPO insurance then one last slam with chemo is usually mandated. This will send the patient to ICU with multiple whammies. Myelosuppression and narcotics invite intractable pneumonia and respiratory paralysis. This calls for intubation, ventilation, and antibiotics. Nausea and cachexia bring more meds with more unwanted side effects. Stressed kidneys and liver lead to ascites and edema. The breathing may become additionally labored with pleural effusion. Tapping the thorax or the abdomen drains the body of much-needed albumin. The patient tries to rip the tubes out of the nose, the mouth, the chest, the abdomen, the arms, and any place else that was dreamed up by the staff. Of course this calls for restraints for the writhing patient. When the patient starts to come down from pain killers, tranquilizers and deliriants, they rage and must be placed in deeper stupors. The patient is pumped with dextrose which feeds the tumor and increases the chances of any number of obstructions. The patient's family begs God to end this patient's misery, and the oncologist complies. Now if the patient happens to come from money, then the hospital administration and oncologists call for a meeting with the distressed family while they are still at the hospital. The family is told how much the hospital needs that new wing to help with the research and patient care to make sure that such agonizing deaths won't happen to any more of God's children. They want to put the family name on a large brass plaque in the lobby where it says Patrons. Most oncologists have an impressive variety of demigod-like posturings for the public, but at the conventions they show themselves to be regular good old boys. One oncologist once asked me if I knew why coffin lids are nailed down. I didn't know. It's to stop the oncologists from trying to give more chemo ! Such thigh-slapping humor. I'll save the hospice discussion for another day -- the myth that is painted for the patients and donors, verses the reality. At 07:35 AM 07/21/04, you wrote: >In a message posted yesterday Vince stated.... " Victims are all >those polite people who are laying on the conveyor belt that >channels them to hospice. Winners are among those who wake up and >bolt. " > >I have been in contact with our local hospice to see what they have >to offer. I learned our hospice is made up of volunteers, home >support nurses and pallative care doctors...they are there to assist >those coping with a fatal disease through counselling and home >support, but have no pallative care residences or beds like some >areas have. I was assured they accept whatever treatment choices >the sick person has chosen for themselves...traditional or >alternative and their only goal is to help those who are ill and >their friends and family. > >Your statement sounds like you are not in favour of hospice >Vince....could you explain why, if that is the case. Could others >also share their hospice experiences good and bad. > >Thanks... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Thanks Gubi, Joe and Larry for sharing your thoughts on hospice. Good to see you again Gubi...I'll pass on your hello to Mel. I couldn't agree with you more Vince on the treatment many receive in their battle to regain health after a cancer diagnosis. I am so thankful that Mel has had no further traditional treatment since his original biopsy and cat scan. Your message below sounds like it could have been written by him ;-) We live in Canada where the health system is a bit different than in the states where many of you live....but the physicians are just as greedy here and most patients are like you said put on a conveyor belt from diagnosis to death. Larry, your mother was very lucky to have you to care for her...unfortunately not everyone has family to look after them when they become ill. For many there comes a time when full time care is needed and the only choice then seems to be hospital or hospice. It's unfortunate it is seen as giving up...when in reality for many, it is getting the help that is needed to continue living. In my situation I am the sole care giver to a very dear man, but I also have a family that has to be my first priority...I am not at liberty or have the knowledge to be his full time nurse, should the need arise. The pallative care physicians associated with the hospice here are the most knowledgeable physicians in our area on pain control which is quickly becoming an issue....head and neck cancers can become very painful. Intense, constant pain quickly becomes very debilitating. We certainly would prefer to control his pain through natural means....suggestions would be very welcome. We have tried poppy tea made from opium poppies from my garden...but found although they blunted some of the pain and helped with sleep, they also added to Mel's already dizzy state, a very bad situation since he lives alone...so opiates are out. Joe I read an article awhile ago on the net about a old, sick lady who decided she wished to die and fasted until she accomplished that end. I suspect this frequently occurs naturally as a person becomes sicker, their appetite becomes less and less and they become weaker and weaker leading to death. It certainly sounds much more peaceful than the picture that Vince so graphically painted. Thanks again for all your thoughts on this subject...and wishing good health to all....K > > Usually oncologists orchestrate a show of aggressive treatment for > metastatic cancers. The pretense and the fantasy is that these treatments > are of curative intent. Once a cancer is metastatic (especially if there > is distant metastasis) there is very little to hope for under the > conventional model of treatment. The major intent here is to extend life a > few months, maybe more, if the chemo doesn't kill in the process. As the > patient is usually ravaged by the chemo process -- and there is no hiding > the fact that chemo only works for a while because of multiple drug > resistance -- this period of time is used by the patient and the family to > slowly come to grips with the fact that death is the outcome of this > ordeal, not health. > Once the real prognosis can no longer be hidden, then the treatment > becomes openly palliative. The insurance funds and personal assets become > depleted, and hospitals and oncologists sometimes become a bit less > aggressive in hustling the patients into expensive treatments. Hospice may > be recommended. If the patient has a good PPO insurance then one last slam > with chemo is usually mandated. This will send the patient to ICU with > multiple whammies. Myelosuppression and narcotics invite intractable > pneumonia and respiratory paralysis. This calls for intubation, > ventilation, and antibiotics. Nausea and cachexia bring more meds with > more unwanted side effects. Stressed kidneys and liver lead to ascites and > edema. The breathing may become additionally labored with pleural > effusion. Tapping the thorax or the abdomen drains the body of much-needed > albumin. The patient tries to rip the tubes out of the nose, the mouth, > the chest, the abdomen, the arms, and any place else that was dreamed up by > the staff. Of course this calls for restraints for the writhing > patient. When the patient starts to come down from pain killers, > tranquilizers and deliriants, they rage and must be placed in deeper > stupors. The patient is pumped with dextrose which feeds the tumor and > increases the chances of any number of obstructions. The patient's family > begs God to end this patient's misery, and the oncologist complies. > Now if the patient happens to come from money, then the hospital > administration and oncologists call for a meeting with the distressed > family while they are still at the hospital. The family is told how much > the hospital needs that new wing to help with the research and patient care > to make sure that such agonizing deaths won't happen to any more of God's > children. They want to put the family name on a large brass plaque in the > lobby where it says Patrons. > Most oncologists have an impressive variety of demigod-like posturings > for the public, but at the conventions they show themselves to be regular > good old boys. One oncologist once asked me if I knew why coffin lids are > nailed down. I didn't know. It's to stop the oncologists from trying to > give more chemo ! Such thigh-slapping humor. > I'll save the hospice discussion for another day -- the myth that is > painted for the patients and donors, verses the reality. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 I wasn't challenging or chastising Vince on his views about hospice, only interested in his opinion...be they good or bad. I am trying to decide if hospice may be helpful to us, so want to know other's experiences with it. I too fully agree that our current traditional way of treating those with cancer is only fast tracking patients/victims/people towards their deaths. And please lets not be such a nit picking/touchy/politically correct group and remember it's often difficult to get the correct tone to please everyone when writing an email. We're all here because we are either sick with cancer or trying to help someone who is and often our minds are not on choosing exactly the right words or phrases to please everyone. > > > In a message posted yesterday Vince stated.... " Victims are all > > those polite people who are laying on the conveyor belt that > > channels them to hospice. Winners are among those who wake up and > > bolt. " > > > > I have been in contact with our local hospice to see what they have > > to offer. I learned our hospice is made up of volunteers, home > > support nurses and pallative care doctors...they are there to assist > > those coping with a fatal disease through counselling and home > > support, but have no pallative care residences or beds like some > > areas have. I was assured they accept whatever treatment choices > > the sick person has chosen for themselves...traditional or > > alternative and their only goal is to help those who are ill and > > their friends and family. > > > > Your statement sounds like you are not in favour of hospice > > Vince....could you explain why, if that is the case. Could others > > also share their hospice experiences good and bad. > > > > Thanks... > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 Hospice I hesitate to post this and would like to state up front that Hospice nurses are some of the most commpassionate I have every met. I have a friend who is a RN, Hospice nurse and she is one of the few in my corner who support alternative care. That and my neighbor's nurse was also encouraging in that regards. Specifically, my friend said she sees patients pumped full of chemo until either the insurance runs out or they physically can take no more and then they are sent home to die. This from a health care practioners point of view. db Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 let me clarify this -- they don't expect that you are " over the death " -- merely that your coping skills are better after three years. during the first three years they recognize that most people are only functioning at half capacity. And that's if the loved one died normally, not from suicide or homicide, which has its own time pattern. I know that when my mom died 3.5 years ago, the first three years were ghastly, but by the third anniversary, I was able to deal with the circumstances a lot better. of course there is no time line for grief, but i suppose this three year thing is a generalization of when most people start to come out of the worst of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2005 Report Share Posted July 28, 2005 let me clarify this -- they don't expect that you are " over the death " -- merely that your coping skills are better after three years. during the first three years they recognize that most people are only functioning at half capacity. And that's if the loved one died normally, not from suicide or homicide, which has its own time pattern. I know that when my mom died 3.5 years ago, the first three years were ghastly, but by the third anniversary, I was able to deal with the circumstances a lot better. of course there is no time line for grief, but i suppose this three year thing is a generalization of when most people start to come out of the worst of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Dear , I have worked for a closed door pharmacy years back where I made varioushospice drugs that were delivered by our driver to board and care, private homes for home health care, Hospice Nursing Facilities, SNF's etc. I made morphine PCA's among some of the hospice drugs. But I do not think this is what you are looking for. I did a search on the net to find out a bit more about hospice pharmacies. You might want to try these links. ASHP Statement on the Pharmacist's Role in Hospice and Palliative Care (2002) http://www.ashp.org/DocLibrary/BestPractices/SpecificStHospice.aspx Hospice Pharmacy Services Overview http://www.outcomeresources.com/overview-hospice-pharmacy-services/ A Hospice Pharmacy site: http://www.hospicepharmacia.com/hp-rxoptions.aspx http://www.hospicepharmacia.com/rx_pharmacy_services_support_center.aspx Pharmacy Technician areas of specialization: http://flahec.org/hlthcareers/pharmtec.htm These are two different and specific JOB advertisements for a Hospice Pharm Tech, in which you can see the general duties and requirements: http://careers.thehospice.org/largo/pharmaceutical/jobid966923-pharmacy-technici\ an-prn-jobs http://www.simplyhired.com/job-id/pp4s36v4iw/pharmacy-tech-jobs/ I did not see anyone answering you so I thought I would jump in with what I know. I found working for a closed door home health very rewarding. An experienced IV hospital tech may find this 'heaven' as there is very little phone calls from angry or frustrated nurses or other employees. I found that most have hours that vary but the pharmacies are generally closed after 5pm or 7pm with a consulting pharmacist on call when the pharmacy is closed. I was also on call. My pharmacist could call me to meet him at the closed door at 2 or 3 in the morning. It was rare. Usually he made the drug and delivered it himself, but occasionally I made it and he checked and delivered it, or he checked and I delivered it. We would go home and come back at opening time at 7 am. Our hours of on site daily work were 7 am to 7 pm, we were closed on Sunday, but open half day on Sats. We had a driver M - F and the techs drove on Sats or when called in on a Sun or when closed. Always with a pharmacist and tech on call during closed hours. Most of the time the pharmacist did not call the techs in. Techs were paid for coming in to the pharmacy plus being on class a different rate. this was back in 1999 so I really do not know if it is still done this way at some closed door pharmacies. A closed door pharmacy does not supply to or fill rx's of the general public. They do supply to nursing homes, may make TPN's for hospitals etc. Here is a description of what a closed door pharmacy is like and who and what they service: http://www.bestmedinc.net/ A broader term: closed door pharmacy is closed to the public; as a nuclear, nursing home, IV infusion, hospice or mail-order pharmacy. Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_exactly_is_a_closed-door_pharmacy#ixzz1WlFDvRLw The working conditions were great! Stress was down to getting something ready and on the next delivery. Personnel also visited the sites to stock night lockers, cassettes, robots etc of nursing homes and other facilities of which our director was the consulting pharmacist. If you scroll down to the bottom of this site for a Hospice Pharmacy you will see the types of drugs that are on formulary: http://www.oppc.com/hospice.htm The following is the 'atmosphere' or " what it is like " when working at this specific hospice pharmacy: http://www.oppc.com/employment.htm Hope this helps you. Jeanetta Mastron CPhT BS Founder/Owner > > Does anyone know what it's like to work in a hospice pharmacy? Thanks! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Thank you Jeanetta. That's exactly what I was looking for! I'm interning at a closed door hospice pharmacy now. They have some openings and I'm trying to decide which area of practice to go into as I just passed the PTCE. Appreciate your help, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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