Guest guest Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 More likely the other way around, your T falls when your testicles begin to fail. You have very little T. 372 is not enough for health. Not even close. Winter > Does anyone have any insight on testicular shrinkage. My T-level is 372 and > my left testicle has shrunk. Does this happen when T levels fall? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Yep sounds like you have high Estradiol levels get this checked. And for your testis try doing HCG 250 IU's shots every 3 days. Go to www.allthingsmale.com and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and the HCG Update. Here is a good link about HCG. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/5/2595 prr106 <prr106@...> wrote: Hi everybody .. I am new on this site .. I have been on trt for 1 1/2 yrs ... during that time I have manny unanswered questions so I'll work on one at a time ... I take 2-5g packs of andogel daily ... in the past 6 months my testicles have shrunk a lot ... so much that I am becomming worried ... I have also lost all sensation in them so when I reach orgasum I no longer have that great feeling we all experience (1) Does anyone else have this problem and any suggestion on how to make them larger again? (2) Are there any supplements I could try?? (3) Has anyone lost this sensation like I have Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil --------------------------------- Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside . See how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Most of the sensations of orgasims are associated with the prostate and not the testicles for me. Maybe thats because I had a vasectomy 20 years ago and have just forgot. If you are not having sensations, could be your prostate volume. Do you ejaculate much volume? The shrinking testicles troubles all who are on TRT except those who take HCG which mimics luetinizing hormone which tells the testicles to make more T. I still have not tried it because I want to get a good stable regiment that I can count on and then start HCG. I was very incouraged by Phil who started HCG after several years of TRT and he still got the boost from it. Do you know your E2 levels? Arkansas prr106 <prr106@...> wrote: Hi everybody .. I am new on this site .. I have been on trt for 1 1/2 yrs ... during that time I have manny unanswered questions so I'll work on one at a time ... I take 2-5g packs of andogel daily ... in the past 6 months my testicles have shrunk a lot ... so much that I am becomming worried ... I have also lost all sensation in them so when I reach orgasum I no longer have that great feeling we all experience (1) Does anyone else have this problem and any suggestion on how to make them larger again? (2) Are there any supplements I could try?? (3) Has anyone lost this sensation like I have --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 I would like to enter this point into the fray. If your hypogonadism is due to testicular failure, or rather the testes are not responding to the LH from the pituitary, then how is HCG going to help? If the testes don't respond then the testes don't respond. How will introducing a new hormone be of benefit in an attempt to stimulate the testes? I suggested this question to my doctor and he seemed in agreement with me on this point. Secondly, when my testes give the appearance of a reduction in size, or they appear tight, for me, that means I am all the more ready for activity. To me, it's more of an indicitation that I'm ready to go. I don't sweat it because that doesn't affect me in that manner but rather the opposite. When I see this in me, I know I'm good to go. Large volumes, good sensation, no problem. When my testes are loose, baggy and not tight, I wait another day. Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote: Most of the sensations of orgasims are associated with the prostate and not the testicles for me. Maybe thats because I had a vasectomy 20 years ago and have just forgot. If you are not having sensations, could be your prostate volume. Do you ejaculate much volume? The shrinking testicles troubles all who are on TRT except those who take HCG which mimics luetinizing hormone which tells the testicles to make more T. I still have not tried it because I want to get a good stable regiment that I can count on and then start HCG. I was very incouraged by Phil who started HCG after several years of TRT and he still got the boost from it. Do you know your E2 levels? Arkansas prr106 <prr106@...> wrote: Hi everybody .. I am new on this site .. I have been on trt for 1 1/2 yrs ... during that time I have manny unanswered questions so I'll work on one at a time ... I take 2-5g packs of andogel daily ... in the past 6 months my testicles have shrunk a lot ... so much that I am becomming worried ... I have also lost all sensation in them so when I reach orgasum I no longer have that great feeling we all experience (1) Does anyone else have this problem and any suggestion on how to make them larger again? (2) Are there any supplements I could try?? (3) Has anyone lost this sensation like I have --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 We have gone over this not long ago when I was told my testosterone was low do to my testis not working my TT was 120. My testis got very small the size of small grapes. I asked my Dr. about trying HCG and he said your Primary your testis don't make testosterone so this would not work. I posted to Dr. and this is what he said. ======================================================= #5 (permalink) vbrep_register( " 413586 " ) 03-13-2005, 04:10 PM pmgamer18 vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413586 " , true); Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,348 I am confused? --------------------------------- I have been on TRT for 21 yrs and I am Primary I read SWALE paper on adding HCG to the mix. I asked my Dr. if it would help and he felt no. Because my Testis don't work. SWALE is he right. Phil pmgamer18 View Public Profile Send a private message to pmgamer18 Send email to pmgamer18 Find all posts by pmgamer18 Add pmgamer18 to Your Buddy List #6 (permalink) vbrep_register( " 413606 " ) 03-13-2005, 04:53 PM SWALE vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413606 " , true); Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 2,244 --------------------------------- No. He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone. This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic consideration. Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more natural balance of our hormones. Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life issues. Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated. ======================================================= After I showed this post to my Dr. he let me try HCG and my TT levels doubled this is how I found out I am not Primary but Seconday the man saved my life. Anyway there are just a mess of LH receptors cell all over our body and brain. Doing TRT shuts down LH I can't see anyone not benefiting from adding in HCG. Most of the men that are primary were make some T to get there levels to show on a lab test so adding HCG will but your testis back to work and this is better then them not working. Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> wrote: I would like to enter this point into the fray. If your hypogonadism is due to testicular failure, or rather the testes are not responding to the LH from the pituitary, then how is HCG going to help? If the testes don't respond then the testes don't respond. How will introducing a new hormone be of benefit in an attempt to stimulate the testes? I suggested this question to my doctor and he seemed in agreement with me on this point. Secondly, when my testes give the appearance of a reduction in size, or they appear tight, for me, that means I am all the more ready for activity. To me, it's more of an indicitation that I'm ready to go. I don't sweat it because that doesn't affect me in that manner but rather the opposite. When I see this in me, I know I'm good to go. Large volumes, good sensation, no problem. When my testes are loose, baggy and not tight, I wait another day. Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote: Most of the sensations of orgasims are associated with the prostate and not the testicles for me. Maybe thats because I had a vasectomy 20 years ago and have just forgot. If you are not having sensations, could be your prostate volume. Do you ejaculate much volume? The shrinking testicles troubles all who are on TRT except those who take HCG which mimics luetinizing hormone which tells the testicles to make more T. I still have not tried it because I want to get a good stable regiment that I can count on and then start HCG. I was very incouraged by Phil who started HCG after several years of TRT and he still got the boost from it. Do you know your E2 levels? Arkansas prr106 <prr106@...> wrote: Hi everybody .. I am new on this site .. I have been on trt for 1 1/2 yrs ... during that time I have manny unanswered questions so I'll work on one at a time ... I take 2-5g packs of andogel daily ... in the past 6 months my testicles have shrunk a lot ... so much that I am becomming worried ... I have also lost all sensation in them so when I reach orgasum I no longer have that great feeling we all experience (1) Does anyone else have this problem and any suggestion on how to make them larger again? (2) Are there any supplements I could try?? (3) Has anyone lost this sensation like I have --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 phil my LH is high because my T is low, my body is trying to get them to pump out more T. now the question remains something is supressing the T, which is most likely the E2. and I have the solution for it, and will talk to my professor. but as my testicle size is very small, could anyone recommend on an idea of HCG therapy for me? maybe once my E2 is suppressed, my T will automatically boost up, causing my LH to balance, and over a year or so, my testicles could develop? but if i still need HCG, in order to help raise my 2% functional sperms and to increase my testicular size, then has anyone got any recommendations for HCG therapy? thnx,,, these r my results if anyone can recommend any ideas/RX (therapy): TSH 1.42 mIU/L Free T4 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L (UK unit) FSH 6.8 mIU/mL LH 7.7 lU/L Oestradiol 32.7 pg/mL Prolactin 4.94 µg/L Testosterone 478 ng/dL 17 OH-Progesterone 0.84 ng/mL Androstenedione 90.5 ng/dL Cortisol (Rdm) 7.4 µg/dL IgF 1 785 (197-956) ng/ml (UK unit) Binding Protein 3 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L (UK unit) --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > We have gone over this not long ago when I was told > my testosterone was low do to my testis not working > my TT was 120. My testis got very small the size of > small grapes. I asked my Dr. about trying HCG and > he said your Primary your testis don't make > testosterone so this would not work. I posted to > Dr. and this is what he said. > > ======================================================= > #5 (permalink) > vbrep_register( " 413586 " ) > 03-13-2005, 04:10 PM > pmgamer18 > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413586 " , true); > Senior Member > Join Date: Mar 2005 > Posts: 6,348 > > > > I am confused? > > --------------------------------- > I have been on TRT for 21 yrs and I am Primary I > read SWALE paper on adding HCG to the mix. I asked > my Dr. if it would help and he felt no. Because my > Testis don't work. SWALE is he right. > Phil > > > pmgamer18 View Public Profile Send a > private message to pmgamer18 Send email to > pmgamer18 Find all posts by pmgamer18 Add > pmgamer18 to Your Buddy List > > > > > > > > #6 (permalink) > vbrep_register( " 413606 " ) > 03-13-2005, 04:53 PM > SWALE > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413606 " , true); > Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine > Join Date: Dec 2003 > Location: Lansing, MI > Posts: 2,244 > > > > > > --------------------------------- > No. He probably feels that since you suffer > primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no use > in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several > reasons why this is not so. First, you have not lost > all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will stimulate > those who still function to produce endogenous > testosterone. > > This will support testicular size. We should not > ignore this aesthetic consideration. > > Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that > HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some > extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, > which is the first step after CHOL in all three > hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG > increases pregnenolone production, and therefore > restores a more natural balance of our hormones. > > Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to > their regimens report an increased sense of > well-being and also libido. These are genuine > quality of life issues. > > Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those > LH receptors (including those we have yet to > discover and appreciate) unstimulated. > > > > > > ======================================================= > After I showed this post to my Dr. he let me try > HCG and my TT levels doubled this is how I found out > I am not Primary but Seconday the man saved my life. > Anyway there are just a mess of LH receptors cell > all over our body and brain. Doing TRT shuts down > LH I can't see anyone not benefiting from adding in > HCG. Most of the men that are primary were make > some T to get there levels to show on a lab test so > adding HCG will but your testis back to work and > this is better then them not working. > > Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> wrote: > I would like to enter this point into the > fray. If your hypogonadism is due to testicular > failure, or rather the testes are not responding to > the LH from the pituitary, then how is HCG going to > help? If the testes don't respond then the testes > don't respond. How will introducing a new hormone be > of benefit in an attempt to stimulate the testes? I > suggested this question to my doctor and he seemed > in agreement with me on this point. > > Secondly, when my testes give the appearance of a > reduction in size, or they appear tight, for me, > that means I am all the more ready for activity. To > me, it's more of an indicitation that I'm ready to > go. I don't sweat it because that doesn't affect me > in that manner but rather the opposite. When I see > this in me, I know I'm good to go. Large volumes, > good sensation, no problem. When my testes are > loose, baggy and not tight, I wait another day. > > > Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote: > Most of the sensations of orgasims are associated > with the prostate and not the testicles for me. > Maybe thats because I had a vasectomy 20 years ago > and have just forgot. If you are not having > sensations, could be your prostate volume. Do you > ejaculate much volume? > > The shrinking testicles troubles all who are on TRT > except those who take HCG which mimics luetinizing > hormone which tells the testicles to make more T. I > still have not tried it because I want to get a good > stable regiment that I can count on and then start > HCG. I was very incouraged by Phil who started HCG > after several years of TRT and he still got the > boost from it. > > Do you know your E2 levels? > > Arkansas > > prr106 <prr106@...> wrote: > Hi everybody .. I am new on this site .. I have been > on trt for 1 1/2 > yrs ... during that time I have manny unanswered > questions so I'll work > on one at a time ... I take 2-5g packs of andogel > daily ... in the past > 6 months my testicles have shrunk a lot ... so much > that I am > becomming worried ... > I have also lost all sensation in them so when I > reach orgasum I no > longer have that great feeling we all experience > > (1) Does anyone else have this problem and any > suggestion on how to > make them larger again? > (2) Are there any supplements I could try?? > (3) Has anyone lost this sensation like I have > > --------------------------------- > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make > your homepage. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends > inside . See how. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and > only half of what you see. " > Phil > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ___________________________________________________________ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 You are right about the LH being high I if your E2 was to high the LH would be low. The reasion for this is your brain can't tell the difference between E2 and Testosterone. So when your E2 is too high your brain thinks it's testosterone and stops or slows down the message of LH to your testis to make more T. So no this is not your problem your problem can be your Testis can't make more T this is way your LH is so high your brain is asking form more. Still if you bring down your E2 from 120 to 70 this will free up more of your Free T and your levels will go higher. With your testis not working a 100% they need all the help they can get. Adding in HCG with your LH levels this high will shut down your brain from sending LH and make things worse. HCG acts like LH and stimulates all the receptor cells in your body. Your brain is all ready doing this. Try getting your E2 down and after about 6 weeks re test. Also do a Saliva test on your Cortisol levels. Here are some labs in your area that do the test. 4) United Kingdom Labwork from NP Tech, where they will send out the kit for an ASI (adrenal stress test), plus sex hormones and a full thyroid panel etc. (thanks to “Mo” for this info) www.nptech.co.uk 5) United Kingdom Labwork from Red Apple Clinic. Thyroid, Adrenals, and others. (thanks to Crunchie for this info). www.redappleclinic.co.uk Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> wrote: phil my LH is high because my T is low, my body is trying to get them to pump out more T. now the question remains something is supressing the T, which is most likely the E2. and I have the solution for it, and will talk to my professor. but as my testicle size is very small, could anyone recommend on an idea of HCG therapy for me? maybe once my E2 is suppressed, my T will automatically boost up, causing my LH to balance, and over a year or so, my testicles could develop? but if i still need HCG, in order to help raise my 2% functional sperms and to increase my testicular size, then has anyone got any recommendations for HCG therapy? thnx,,, these r my results if anyone can recommend any ideas/RX (therapy): TSH 1.42 mIU/L Free T4 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L (UK unit) FSH 6.8 mIU/mL LH 7.7 lU/L Oestradiol 32.7 pg/mL Prolactin 4.94 µg/L Testosterone 478 ng/dL 17 OH-Progesterone 0.84 ng/mL Androstenedione 90.5 ng/dL Cortisol (Rdm) 7.4 µg/dL IgF 1 785 (197-956) ng/ml (UK unit) Binding Protein 3 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L (UK unit) --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > We have gone over this not long ago when I was told > my testosterone was low do to my testis not working > my TT was 120. My testis got very small the size of > small grapes. I asked my Dr. about trying HCG and > he said your Primary your testis don't make > testosterone so this would not work. I posted to > Dr. and this is what he said. > > ======================================================= > #5 (permalink) > vbrep_register( " 413586 " ) > 03-13-2005, 04:10 PM > pmgamer18 > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413586 " , true); > Senior Member > Join Date: Mar 2005 > Posts: 6,348 > > > > I am confused? > > --------------------------------- > I have been on TRT for 21 yrs and I am Primary I > read SWALE paper on adding HCG to the mix. I asked > my Dr. if it would help and he felt no. Because my > Testis don't work. SWALE is he right. > Phil > > > pmgamer18 View Public Profile Send a > private message to pmgamer18 Send email to > pmgamer18 Find all posts by pmgamer18 Add > pmgamer18 to Your Buddy List > > > > > > > > #6 (permalink) > vbrep_register( " 413606 " ) > 03-13-2005, 04:53 PM > SWALE > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413606 " , true); > Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine > Join Date: Dec 2003 > Location: Lansing, MI > Posts: 2,244 > > > > > > --------------------------------- > No. He probably feels that since you suffer > primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no use > in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several > reasons why this is not so. First, you have not lost > all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will stimulate > those who still function to produce endogenous > testosterone. > > This will support testicular size. We should not > ignore this aesthetic consideration. > > Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that > HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some > extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, > which is the first step after CHOL in all three > hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG > increases pregnenolone production, and therefore > restores a more natural balance of our hormones. > > Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to > their regimens report an increased sense of > well-being and also libido. These are genuine > quality of life issues. > > Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those > LH receptors (including those we have yet to > discover and appreciate) unstimulated. > > > > > > ======================================================= > After I showed this post to my Dr. he let me try > HCG and my TT levels doubled this is how I found out > I am not Primary but Seconday the man saved my life. > Anyway there are just a mess of LH receptors cell > all over our body and brain. Doing TRT shuts down > LH I can't see anyone not benefiting from adding in > HCG. Most of the men that are primary were make > some T to get there levels to show on a lab test so > adding HCG will but your testis back to work and > this is better then them not working. > > Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> wrote: > I would like to enter this point into the > fray. If your hypogonadism is due to testicular > failure, or rather the testes are not responding to > the LH from the pituitary, then how is HCG going to > help? If the testes don't respond then the testes > don't respond. How will introducing a new hormone be > of benefit in an attempt to stimulate the testes? I > suggested this question to my doctor and he seemed > in agreement with me on this point. > > Secondly, when my testes give the appearance of a > reduction in size, or they appear tight, for me, > that means I am all the more ready for activity. To > me, it's more of an indicitation that I'm ready to > go. I don't sweat it because that doesn't affect me > in that manner but rather the opposite. When I see > this in me, I know I'm good to go. Large volumes, > good sensation, no problem. When my testes are > loose, baggy and not tight, I wait another day. > > > Dan Meatheany <dmeatheany@...> wrote: > Most of the sensations of orgasims are associated > with the prostate and not the testicles for me. > Maybe thats because I had a vasectomy 20 years ago > and have just forgot. If you are not having > sensations, could be your prostate volume. Do you > ejaculate much volume? > > The shrinking testicles troubles all who are on TRT > except those who take HCG which mimics luetinizing > hormone which tells the testicles to make more T. I > still have not tried it because I want to get a good > stable regiment that I can count on and then start > HCG. I was very incouraged by Phil who started HCG > after several years of TRT and he still got the > boost from it. > > Do you know your E2 levels? > > Arkansas > > prr106 <prr106@...> wrote: > Hi everybody .. I am new on this site .. I have been > on trt for 1 1/2 > yrs ... during that time I have manny unanswered > questions so I'll work > on one at a time ... I take 2-5g packs of andogel > daily ... in the past > 6 months my testicles have shrunk a lot ... so much > that I am > becomming worried ... > I have also lost all sensation in them so when I > reach orgasum I no > longer have that great feeling we all experience > > (1) Does anyone else have this problem and any > suggestion on how to > make them larger again? > (2) Are there any supplements I could try?? > (3) Has anyone lost this sensation like I have > > --------------------------------- > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make > your homepage. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > --------------------------------- > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends > inside . See how. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and > only half of what you see. " > Phil > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________________ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 So this is what I am hoping: -Bring the E2 down to 60 causing my T to shoot up. - So i will be gettin erections, >>> will i develop testicle and penis growth after in one or two years by maintaining this balanced level?????????? --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > You are right about the LH being high I if your E2 > was to high the LH would be low. The reasion for > this is your brain can't tell the difference between > E2 and Testosterone. So when your E2 is too high > your brain thinks it's testosterone and stops or > slows down the message of LH to your testis to make > more T. So no this is not your problem your > problem can be your Testis can't make more T this is > way your LH is so high your brain is asking form > more. > > Still if you bring down your E2 from 120 to 70 > this will free up more of your Free T and your > levels will go higher. With your testis not working > a 100% they need all the help they can get. > > Adding in HCG with your LH levels this high will > shut down your brain from sending LH and make things > worse. HCG acts like LH and stimulates all the > receptor cells in your body. Your brain is all > ready doing this. > > Try getting your E2 down and after about 6 weeks > re test. Also do a Saliva test on your Cortisol > levels. Here are some labs in your area that do the > test. > 4) United Kingdom Labwork from NP Tech, where > they will send out the kit for an ASI (adrenal > stress test), plus sex hormones and a full thyroid > panel etc. (thanks to “Mo” for this info) > www.nptech.co.uk > 5) United Kingdom Labwork from Red Apple Clinic. > Thyroid, Adrenals, and others. (thanks to Crunchie > for this info). > www.redappleclinic.co.uk > > > > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> > wrote: phil my LH is high because my T is > low, my body is > trying to get them to pump out more T. > > now the question remains something is supressing the > T, which is most likely the E2. and I have the > solution for it, and will talk to my professor. > > but as my testicle size is very small, could anyone > recommend on an idea of HCG therapy for me? maybe > once > my E2 is suppressed, my T will automatically boost > up, > causing my LH to balance, and over a year or so, my > testicles could develop? > > but if i still need HCG, in order to help raise my > 2% > functional sperms and to increase my testicular > size, > then has anyone got any recommendations for HCG > therapy? thnx,,, these r my results if anyone can > recommend any ideas/RX (therapy): > > TSH 1.42 mIU/L > Free T4 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L (UK unit) > FSH 6.8 mIU/mL > LH 7.7 lU/L > Oestradiol 32.7 pg/mL > Prolactin 4.94 µg/L > Testosterone 478 ng/dL > 17 OH-Progesterone 0.84 ng/mL > Androstenedione 90.5 ng/dL > Cortisol (Rdm) 7.4 µg/dL > > IgF 1 785 (197-956) ng/ml (UK unit) > Binding Protein 3 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L (UK unit) > > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > > > We have gone over this not long ago when I was > told > > my testosterone was low do to my testis not > working > > my TT was 120. My testis got very small the size > of > > small grapes. I asked my Dr. about trying HCG and > > he said your Primary your testis don't make > > testosterone so this would not work. I posted to > > Dr. and this is what he said. > > > > > ======================================================= > > #5 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413586 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:10 PM > > pmgamer18 > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413586 " , true); > > Senior Member > > Join Date: Mar 2005 > > Posts: 6,348 > > > > > > > > I am confused? > > > > --------------------------------- > > I have been on TRT for 21 yrs and I am Primary I > > read SWALE paper on adding HCG to the mix. I asked > > my Dr. if it would help and he felt no. Because my > > Testis don't work. SWALE is he right. > > Phil > > > > > > pmgamer18 View Public Profile Send a > > private message to pmgamer18 Send email to > > pmgamer18 Find all posts by pmgamer18 Add > > pmgamer18 to Your Buddy List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #6 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413606 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:53 PM > > SWALE > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413606 " , true); > > Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine > > Join Date: Dec 2003 > > Location: Lansing, MI > > Posts: 2,244 > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > No. He probably feels that since you suffer > > primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no > use > > in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several > > reasons why this is not so. First, you have not > lost > > all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will > stimulate > > those who still function to produce endogenous > > testosterone. > > > > This will support testicular size. We should not > > ignore this aesthetic consideration. > > > > Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that > > HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some > > extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone > levels, > > which is the first step after CHOL in all three > > hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG > > increases pregnenolone production, and therefore > > restores a more natural balance of our hormones. > > > > Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to > > their regimens report an increased sense of > > well-being and also libido. These are genuine > > quality of life issues. > > > > Finally, I just instinctively do not want all > those > > LH receptors (including those we have yet to > > discover and appreciate) unstimulated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > After I showed this post to my Dr. he let me try > > HCG and my TT levels doubled this is how I found > out > > I am not Primary but Seconday the man saved my > life. > > Anyway there are just a mess of LH receptors cell > > all over our body and brain. Doing TRT shuts down > > LH I can't see anyone not benefiting from adding > in > > HCG. Most of the men that are primary were make > > some T to get there levels to show on a lab test > so > > adding HCG will but your testis back to work and > > this is better then them not working. > > > > Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> > wrote: > > I would like to enter this point into the > > fray. If your hypogonadism is due to testicular > > failure, or rather the testes are not responding > to > > the LH from the pituitary, then how is HCG going > to > === message truncated === ___________________________________________________________ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Also E2 is more powerful than T, and as my E2 is on the high end it ANTAGONIZES my T. my LH is high, as I need to pump more T, but as more LH is made and more T is made, each and every time the E2 takes over the T. so maybe, my testis can make more, only my problem is lieing with E2 in this case. as I appear to be in normal ranges (ONLY NEED ADJUSTMENTS TO FIT MY BODY) and ultrasound showed testis are fine, there seems to be no major problem,,,,so my testis cld be ok,,and not as u said,,not pumping out enough T x --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > You are right about the LH being high I if your E2 > was to high the LH would be low. The reasion for > this is your brain can't tell the difference between > E2 and Testosterone. So when your E2 is too high > your brain thinks it's testosterone and stops or > slows down the message of LH to your testis to make > more T. So no this is not your problem your > problem can be your Testis can't make more T this is > way your LH is so high your brain is asking form > more. > > Still if you bring down your E2 from 120 to 70 > this will free up more of your Free T and your > levels will go higher. With your testis not working > a 100% they need all the help they can get. > > Adding in HCG with your LH levels this high will > shut down your brain from sending LH and make things > worse. HCG acts like LH and stimulates all the > receptor cells in your body. Your brain is all > ready doing this. > > Try getting your E2 down and after about 6 weeks > re test. Also do a Saliva test on your Cortisol > levels. Here are some labs in your area that do the > test. > 4) United Kingdom Labwork from NP Tech, where > they will send out the kit for an ASI (adrenal > stress test), plus sex hormones and a full thyroid > panel etc. (thanks to “Mo” for this info) > www.nptech.co.uk > 5) United Kingdom Labwork from Red Apple Clinic. > Thyroid, Adrenals, and others. (thanks to Crunchie > for this info). > www.redappleclinic.co.uk > > > > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> > wrote: phil my LH is high because my T is > low, my body is > trying to get them to pump out more T. > > now the question remains something is supressing the > T, which is most likely the E2. and I have the > solution for it, and will talk to my professor. > > but as my testicle size is very small, could anyone > recommend on an idea of HCG therapy for me? maybe > once > my E2 is suppressed, my T will automatically boost > up, > causing my LH to balance, and over a year or so, my > testicles could develop? > > but if i still need HCG, in order to help raise my > 2% > functional sperms and to increase my testicular > size, > then has anyone got any recommendations for HCG > therapy? thnx,,, these r my results if anyone can > recommend any ideas/RX (therapy): > > TSH 1.42 mIU/L > Free T4 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L (UK unit) > FSH 6.8 mIU/mL > LH 7.7 lU/L > Oestradiol 32.7 pg/mL > Prolactin 4.94 µg/L > Testosterone 478 ng/dL > 17 OH-Progesterone 0.84 ng/mL > Androstenedione 90.5 ng/dL > Cortisol (Rdm) 7.4 µg/dL > > IgF 1 785 (197-956) ng/ml (UK unit) > Binding Protein 3 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L (UK unit) > > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > > > We have gone over this not long ago when I was > told > > my testosterone was low do to my testis not > working > > my TT was 120. My testis got very small the size > of > > small grapes. I asked my Dr. about trying HCG and > > he said your Primary your testis don't make > > testosterone so this would not work. I posted to > > Dr. and this is what he said. > > > > > ======================================================= > > #5 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413586 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:10 PM > > pmgamer18 > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413586 " , true); > > Senior Member > > Join Date: Mar 2005 > > Posts: 6,348 > > > > > > > > I am confused? > > > > --------------------------------- > > I have been on TRT for 21 yrs and I am Primary I > > read SWALE paper on adding HCG to the mix. I asked > > my Dr. if it would help and he felt no. Because my > > Testis don't work. SWALE is he right. > > Phil > > > > > > pmgamer18 View Public Profile Send a > > private message to pmgamer18 Send email to > > pmgamer18 Find all posts by pmgamer18 Add > > pmgamer18 to Your Buddy List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #6 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413606 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:53 PM > > SWALE > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413606 " , true); > > Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine > > Join Date: Dec 2003 > > Location: Lansing, MI > > Posts: 2,244 > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > No. He probably feels that since you suffer > > primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no > use > > in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several > > reasons why this is not so. First, you have not > lost > > all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will > stimulate > > those who still function to produce endogenous > > testosterone. > > > > This will support testicular size. We should not > > ignore this aesthetic consideration. > > > > Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that > > HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some > > extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone > levels, > > which is the first step after CHOL in all three > > hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG > > increases pregnenolone production, and therefore > > restores a more natural balance of our hormones. > > > > Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to > > their regimens report an increased sense of > > well-being and also libido. These are genuine > > quality of life issues. > > > > Finally, I just instinctively do not want all > those > > LH receptors (including those we have yet to > > discover and appreciate) unstimulated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > After I showed this post to my Dr. he let me try > > HCG and my TT levels doubled this is how I found > out > > I am not Primary but Seconday the man saved my > life. > > Anyway there are just a mess of LH receptors cell > > all over our body and brain. Doing TRT shuts down > > LH I can't see anyone not benefiting from adding > in > > HCG. Most of the men that are primary were make > > some T to get there levels to show on a lab test > so > > adding HCG will but your testis back to work and > > this is better then them not working. > > > > Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> > wrote: > > I would like to enter this point into the > > fray. If your hypogonadism is due to testicular > > failure, or rather the testes are not responding > to > > the LH from the pituitary, then how is HCG going > to > === message truncated === ___________________________________________________________ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 I hope this works for you you never know. I helped some older men that had ED for yrs. get there sex life back. Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> wrote: So this is what I am hoping: -Bring the E2 down to 60 causing my T to shoot up. - So i will be gettin erections, >>> will i develop testicle and penis growth after in one or two years by maintaining this balanced level?????????? --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > You are right about the LH being high I if your E2 > was to high the LH would be low. The reasion for > this is your brain can't tell the difference between > E2 and Testosterone. So when your E2 is too high > your brain thinks it's testosterone and stops or > slows down the message of LH to your testis to make > more T. So no this is not your problem your > problem can be your Testis can't make more T this is > way your LH is so high your brain is asking form > more. > > Still if you bring down your E2 from 120 to 70 > this will free up more of your Free T and your > levels will go higher. With your testis not working > a 100% they need all the help they can get. > > Adding in HCG with your LH levels this high will > shut down your brain from sending LH and make things > worse. HCG acts like LH and stimulates all the > receptor cells in your body. Your brain is all > ready doing this. > > Try getting your E2 down and after about 6 weeks > re test. Also do a Saliva test on your Cortisol > levels. Here are some labs in your area that do the > test. > 4) United Kingdom Labwork from NP Tech, where > they will send out the kit for an ASI (adrenal > stress test), plus sex hormones and a full thyroid > panel etc. (thanks to “Mo” for this info) > www.nptech.co.uk > 5) United Kingdom Labwork from Red Apple Clinic. > Thyroid, Adrenals, and others. (thanks to Crunchie > for this info). > www.redappleclinic.co.uk > > > > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> > wrote: phil my LH is high because my T is > low, my body is > trying to get them to pump out more T. > > now the question remains something is supressing the > T, which is most likely the E2. and I have the > solution for it, and will talk to my professor. > > but as my testicle size is very small, could anyone > recommend on an idea of HCG therapy for me? maybe > once > my E2 is suppressed, my T will automatically boost > up, > causing my LH to balance, and over a year or so, my > testicles could develop? > > but if i still need HCG, in order to help raise my > 2% > functional sperms and to increase my testicular > size, > then has anyone got any recommendations for HCG > therapy? thnx,,, these r my results if anyone can > recommend any ideas/RX (therapy): > > TSH 1.42 mIU/L > Free T4 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L (UK unit) > FSH 6.8 mIU/mL > LH 7.7 lU/L > Oestradiol 32.7 pg/mL > Prolactin 4.94 µg/L > Testosterone 478 ng/dL > 17 OH-Progesterone 0.84 ng/mL > Androstenedione 90.5 ng/dL > Cortisol (Rdm) 7.4 µg/dL > > IgF 1 785 (197-956) ng/ml (UK unit) > Binding Protein 3 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L (UK unit) > > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > > > We have gone over this not long ago when I was > told > > my testosterone was low do to my testis not > working > > my TT was 120. My testis got very small the size > of > > small grapes. I asked my Dr. about trying HCG and > > he said your Primary your testis don't make > > testosterone so this would not work. I posted to > > Dr. and this is what he said. > > > > > ======================================================= > > #5 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413586 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:10 PM > > pmgamer18 > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413586 " , true); > > Senior Member > > Join Date: Mar 2005 > > Posts: 6,348 > > > > > > > > I am confused? > > > > --------------------------------- > > I have been on TRT for 21 yrs and I am Primary I > > read SWALE paper on adding HCG to the mix. I asked > > my Dr. if it would help and he felt no. Because my > > Testis don't work. SWALE is he right. > > Phil > > > > > > pmgamer18 View Public Profile Send a > > private message to pmgamer18 Send email to > > pmgamer18 Find all posts by pmgamer18 Add > > pmgamer18 to Your Buddy List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #6 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413606 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:53 PM > > SWALE > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413606 " , true); > > Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine > > Join Date: Dec 2003 > > Location: Lansing, MI > > Posts: 2,244 > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > No. He probably feels that since you suffer > > primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no > use > > in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several > > reasons why this is not so. First, you have not > lost > > all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will > stimulate > > those who still function to produce endogenous > > testosterone. > > > > This will support testicular size. We should not > > ignore this aesthetic consideration. > > > > Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that > > HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some > > extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone > levels, > > which is the first step after CHOL in all three > > hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG > > increases pregnenolone production, and therefore > > restores a more natural balance of our hormones. > > > > Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to > > their regimens report an increased sense of > > well-being and also libido. These are genuine > > quality of life issues. > > > > Finally, I just instinctively do not want all > those > > LH receptors (including those we have yet to > > discover and appreciate) unstimulated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > After I showed this post to my Dr. he let me try > > HCG and my TT levels doubled this is how I found > out > > I am not Primary but Seconday the man saved my > life. > > Anyway there are just a mess of LH receptors cell > > all over our body and brain. Doing TRT shuts down > > LH I can't see anyone not benefiting from adding > in > > HCG. Most of the men that are primary were make > > some T to get there levels to show on a lab test > so > > adding HCG will but your testis back to work and > > this is better then them not working. > > > > Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> > wrote: > > I would like to enter this point into the > > fray. If your hypogonadism is due to testicular > > failure, or rather the testes are not responding > to > > the LH from the pituitary, then how is HCG going > to > === message truncated === __________________________________________________________ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 You can order some Indolplex/DIM this is sold over the counter and it will bring your E2 down. You can get it at this link takes about 3 weeks in the mail. http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html If you get this let me know I will tell you how to take it. Also you can get on some Zinc/Copper this helps keep E2 down. http://www.myvitanet.com/zincop100cnt.html Here is a link about DIM. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> wrote: Also E2 is more powerful than T, and as my E2 is on the high end it ANTAGONIZES my T. my LH is high, as I need to pump more T, but as more LH is made and more T is made, each and every time the E2 takes over the T. so maybe, my testis can make more, only my problem is lieing with E2 in this case. as I appear to be in normal ranges (ONLY NEED ADJUSTMENTS TO FIT MY BODY) and ultrasound showed testis are fine, there seems to be no major problem,,,,so my testis cld be ok,,and not as u said,,not pumping out enough T x --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > You are right about the LH being high I if your E2 > was to high the LH would be low. The reasion for > this is your brain can't tell the difference between > E2 and Testosterone. So when your E2 is too high > your brain thinks it's testosterone and stops or > slows down the message of LH to your testis to make > more T. So no this is not your problem your > problem can be your Testis can't make more T this is > way your LH is so high your brain is asking form > more. > > Still if you bring down your E2 from 120 to 70 > this will free up more of your Free T and your > levels will go higher. With your testis not working > a 100% they need all the help they can get. > > Adding in HCG with your LH levels this high will > shut down your brain from sending LH and make things > worse. HCG acts like LH and stimulates all the > receptor cells in your body. Your brain is all > ready doing this. > > Try getting your E2 down and after about 6 weeks > re test. Also do a Saliva test on your Cortisol > levels. Here are some labs in your area that do the > test. > 4) United Kingdom Labwork from NP Tech, where > they will send out the kit for an ASI (adrenal > stress test), plus sex hormones and a full thyroid > panel etc. (thanks to “Mo” for this info) > www.nptech.co.uk > 5) United Kingdom Labwork from Red Apple Clinic. > Thyroid, Adrenals, and others. (thanks to Crunchie > for this info). > www.redappleclinic.co.uk > > > > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> > wrote: phil my LH is high because my T is > low, my body is > trying to get them to pump out more T. > > now the question remains something is supressing the > T, which is most likely the E2. and I have the > solution for it, and will talk to my professor. > > but as my testicle size is very small, could anyone > recommend on an idea of HCG therapy for me? maybe > once > my E2 is suppressed, my T will automatically boost > up, > causing my LH to balance, and over a year or so, my > testicles could develop? > > but if i still need HCG, in order to help raise my > 2% > functional sperms and to increase my testicular > size, > then has anyone got any recommendations for HCG > therapy? thnx,,, these r my results if anyone can > recommend any ideas/RX (therapy): > > TSH 1.42 mIU/L > Free T4 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L (UK unit) > FSH 6.8 mIU/mL > LH 7.7 lU/L > Oestradiol 32.7 pg/mL > Prolactin 4.94 µg/L > Testosterone 478 ng/dL > 17 OH-Progesterone 0.84 ng/mL > Androstenedione 90.5 ng/dL > Cortisol (Rdm) 7.4 µg/dL > > IgF 1 785 (197-956) ng/ml (UK unit) > Binding Protein 3 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L (UK unit) > > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > > > We have gone over this not long ago when I was > told > > my testosterone was low do to my testis not > working > > my TT was 120. My testis got very small the size > of > > small grapes. I asked my Dr. about trying HCG and > > he said your Primary your testis don't make > > testosterone so this would not work. I posted to > > Dr. and this is what he said. > > > > > ======================================================= > > #5 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413586 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:10 PM > > pmgamer18 > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413586 " , true); > > Senior Member > > Join Date: Mar 2005 > > Posts: 6,348 > > > > > > > > I am confused? > > > > --------------------------------- > > I have been on TRT for 21 yrs and I am Primary I > > read SWALE paper on adding HCG to the mix. I asked > > my Dr. if it would help and he felt no. Because my > > Testis don't work. SWALE is he right. > > Phil > > > > > > pmgamer18 View Public Profile Send a > > private message to pmgamer18 Send email to > > pmgamer18 Find all posts by pmgamer18 Add > > pmgamer18 to Your Buddy List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #6 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413606 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:53 PM > > SWALE > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413606 " , true); > > Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine > > Join Date: Dec 2003 > > Location: Lansing, MI > > Posts: 2,244 > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > No. He probably feels that since you suffer > > primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no > use > > in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several > > reasons why this is not so. First, you have not > lost > > all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will > stimulate > > those who still function to produce endogenous > > testosterone. > > > > This will support testicular size. We should not > > ignore this aesthetic consideration. > > > > Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that > > HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some > > extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone > levels, > > which is the first step after CHOL in all three > > hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG > > increases pregnenolone production, and therefore > > restores a more natural balance of our hormones. > > > > Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to > > their regimens report an increased sense of > > well-being and also libido. These are genuine > > quality of life issues. > > > > Finally, I just instinctively do not want all > those > > LH receptors (including those we have yet to > > discover and appreciate) unstimulated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > After I showed this post to my Dr. he let me try > > HCG and my TT levels doubled this is how I found > out > > I am not Primary but Seconday the man saved my > life. > > Anyway there are just a mess of LH receptors cell > > all over our body and brain. Doing TRT shuts down > > LH I can't see anyone not benefiting from adding > in > > HCG. Most of the men that are primary were make > > some T to get there levels to show on a lab test > so > > adding HCG will but your testis back to work and > > this is better then them not working. > > > > Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> > wrote: > > I would like to enter this point into the > > fray. If your hypogonadism is due to testicular > > failure, or rather the testes are not responding > to > > the LH from the pituitary, then how is HCG going > to > === message truncated === __________________________________________________________ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 I take the Indoplex with DIM, one tablet a day. It metabolizes estrogen before it becomes E2 and breaks down further. I follow that up with one 50 mg of Zinc that acts like an aromatase inhibitor each day. Aroamtase is the enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen, then E2 and estrogen even breaks down further into a carcenogenic form of estrogen but I forgot the name of it. Then I take a 2 mg tablet of copper to replace the metal that the Zinc uses up in the body, each day. so here's the natural supplements 1 indoplex with DIM each day 1 50 mg Zinc each day 1 2mg Copper each day I am having success on this program and since I have modified my injection schedule from monthly to weekly, I am on the brink of claiming total and complete success. Now that I am on a weekly injection schedule, taking smaller amounts more frequently, I no longer feel the aromatase conversions making me a little off center. My constitution has been strong and I no longer experience any vomiting. Amazing what a little fine tuning in your therapy can do for you. Good luck. philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: You can order some Indolplex/DIM this is sold over the counter and it will bring your E2 down. You can get it at this link takes about 3 weeks in the mail. http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html If you get this let me know I will tell you how to take it. Also you can get on some Zinc/Copper this helps keep E2 down. http://www.myvitanet.com/zincop100cnt.html Here is a link about DIM. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> wrote: Also E2 is more powerful than T, and as my E2 is on the high end it ANTAGONIZES my T. my LH is high, as I need to pump more T, but as more LH is made and more T is made, each and every time the E2 takes over the T. so maybe, my testis can make more, only my problem is lieing with E2 in this case. as I appear to be in normal ranges (ONLY NEED ADJUSTMENTS TO FIT MY BODY) and ultrasound showed testis are fine, there seems to be no major problem,,,,so my testis cld be ok,,and not as u said,,not pumping out enough T x --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > You are right about the LH being high I if your E2 > was to high the LH would be low. The reasion for > this is your brain can't tell the difference between > E2 and Testosterone. So when your E2 is too high > your brain thinks it's testosterone and stops or > slows down the message of LH to your testis to make > more T. So no this is not your problem your > problem can be your Testis can't make more T this is > way your LH is so high your brain is asking form > more. > > Still if you bring down your E2 from 120 to 70 > this will free up more of your Free T and your > levels will go higher. With your testis not working > a 100% they need all the help they can get. > > Adding in HCG with your LH levels this high will > shut down your brain from sending LH and make things > worse. HCG acts like LH and stimulates all the > receptor cells in your body. Your brain is all > ready doing this. > > Try getting your E2 down and after about 6 weeks > re test. Also do a Saliva test on your Cortisol > levels. Here are some labs in your area that do the > test. > 4) United Kingdom Labwork from NP Tech, where > they will send out the kit for an ASI (adrenal > stress test), plus sex hormones and a full thyroid > panel etc. (thanks to “Mo” for this info) > www.nptech.co.uk > 5) United Kingdom Labwork from Red Apple Clinic. > Thyroid, Adrenals, and others. (thanks to Crunchie > for this info). > www.redappleclinic.co.uk > > > > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> > wrote: phil my LH is high because my T is > low, my body is > trying to get them to pump out more T. > > now the question remains something is supressing the > T, which is most likely the E2. and I have the > solution for it, and will talk to my professor. > > but as my testicle size is very small, could anyone > recommend on an idea of HCG therapy for me? maybe > once > my E2 is suppressed, my T will automatically boost > up, > causing my LH to balance, and over a year or so, my > testicles could develop? > > but if i still need HCG, in order to help raise my > 2% > functional sperms and to increase my testicular > size, > then has anyone got any recommendations for HCG > therapy? thnx,,, these r my results if anyone can > recommend any ideas/RX (therapy): > > TSH 1.42 mIU/L > Free T4 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L (UK unit) > FSH 6.8 mIU/mL > LH 7.7 lU/L > Oestradiol 32.7 pg/mL > Prolactin 4.94 µg/L > Testosterone 478 ng/dL > 17 OH-Progesterone 0.84 ng/mL > Androstenedione 90.5 ng/dL > Cortisol (Rdm) 7.4 µg/dL > > IgF 1 785 (197-956) ng/ml (UK unit) > Binding Protein 3 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L (UK unit) > > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > > > We have gone over this not long ago when I was > told > > my testosterone was low do to my testis not > working > > my TT was 120. My testis got very small the size > of > > small grapes. I asked my Dr. about trying HCG and > > he said your Primary your testis don't make > > testosterone so this would not work. I posted to > > Dr. and this is what he said. > > > > > ======================================================= > > #5 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413586 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:10 PM > > pmgamer18 > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413586 " , true); > > Senior Member > > Join Date: Mar 2005 > > Posts: 6,348 > > > > > > > > I am confused? > > > > --------------------------------- > > I have been on TRT for 21 yrs and I am Primary I > > read SWALE paper on adding HCG to the mix. I asked > > my Dr. if it would help and he felt no. Because my > > Testis don't work. SWALE is he right. > > Phil > > > > > > pmgamer18 View Public Profile Send a > > private message to pmgamer18 Send email to > > pmgamer18 Find all posts by pmgamer18 Add > > pmgamer18 to Your Buddy List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #6 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413606 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:53 PM > > SWALE > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413606 " , true); > > Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine > > Join Date: Dec 2003 > > Location: Lansing, MI > > Posts: 2,244 > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > No. He probably feels that since you suffer > > primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no > use > > in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several > > reasons why this is not so. First, you have not > lost > > all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will > stimulate > > those who still function to produce endogenous > > testosterone. > > > > This will support testicular size. We should not > > ignore this aesthetic consideration. > > > > Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that > > HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some > > extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone > levels, > > which is the first step after CHOL in all three > > hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG > > increases pregnenolone production, and therefore > > restores a more natural balance of our hormones. > > > > Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to > > their regimens report an increased sense of > > well-being and also libido. These are genuine > > quality of life issues. > > > > Finally, I just instinctively do not want all > those > > LH receptors (including those we have yet to > > discover and appreciate) unstimulated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > After I showed this post to my Dr. he let me try > > HCG and my TT levels doubled this is how I found > out > > I am not Primary but Seconday the man saved my > life. > > Anyway there are just a mess of LH receptors cell > > all over our body and brain. Doing TRT shuts down > > LH I can't see anyone not benefiting from adding > in > > HCG. Most of the men that are primary were make > > some T to get there levels to show on a lab test > so > > adding HCG will but your testis back to work and > > this is better then them not working. > > > > Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> > wrote: > > I would like to enter this point into the > > fray. If your hypogonadism is due to testicular > > failure, or rather the testes are not responding > to > > the LH from the pituitary, then how is HCG going > to > === message truncated === __________________________________________________________ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 I knew in time you would get there I am very happy for you and now feel you can do a dam good job helping others as you have been doing. This is great news. Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> wrote: I take the Indoplex with DIM, one tablet a day. It metabolizes estrogen before it becomes E2 and breaks down further. I follow that up with one 50 mg of Zinc that acts like an aromatase inhibitor each day. Aroamtase is the enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen, then E2 and estrogen even breaks down further into a carcenogenic form of estrogen but I forgot the name of it. Then I take a 2 mg tablet of copper to replace the metal that the Zinc uses up in the body, each day. so here's the natural supplements 1 indoplex with DIM each day 1 50 mg Zinc each day 1 2mg Copper each day I am having success on this program and since I have modified my injection schedule from monthly to weekly, I am on the brink of claiming total and complete success. Now that I am on a weekly injection schedule, taking smaller amounts more frequently, I no longer feel the aromatase conversions making me a little off center. My constitution has been strong and I no longer experience any vomiting. Amazing what a little fine tuning in your therapy can do for you. Good luck. philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: You can order some Indolplex/DIM this is sold over the counter and it will bring your E2 down. You can get it at this link takes about 3 weeks in the mail. http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html If you get this let me know I will tell you how to take it. Also you can get on some Zinc/Copper this helps keep E2 down. http://www.myvitanet.com/zincop100cnt.html Here is a link about DIM. http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> wrote: Also E2 is more powerful than T, and as my E2 is on the high end it ANTAGONIZES my T. my LH is high, as I need to pump more T, but as more LH is made and more T is made, each and every time the E2 takes over the T. so maybe, my testis can make more, only my problem is lieing with E2 in this case. as I appear to be in normal ranges (ONLY NEED ADJUSTMENTS TO FIT MY BODY) and ultrasound showed testis are fine, there seems to be no major problem,,,,so my testis cld be ok,,and not as u said,,not pumping out enough T x --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > You are right about the LH being high I if your E2 > was to high the LH would be low. The reasion for > this is your brain can't tell the difference between > E2 and Testosterone. So when your E2 is too high > your brain thinks it's testosterone and stops or > slows down the message of LH to your testis to make > more T. So no this is not your problem your > problem can be your Testis can't make more T this is > way your LH is so high your brain is asking form > more. > > Still if you bring down your E2 from 120 to 70 > this will free up more of your Free T and your > levels will go higher. With your testis not working > a 100% they need all the help they can get. > > Adding in HCG with your LH levels this high will > shut down your brain from sending LH and make things > worse. HCG acts like LH and stimulates all the > receptor cells in your body. Your brain is all > ready doing this. > > Try getting your E2 down and after about 6 weeks > re test. Also do a Saliva test on your Cortisol > levels. Here are some labs in your area that do the > test. > 4) United Kingdom Labwork from NP Tech, where > they will send out the kit for an ASI (adrenal > stress test), plus sex hormones and a full thyroid > panel etc. (thanks to “Mo” for this info) > www.nptech.co.uk > 5) United Kingdom Labwork from Red Apple Clinic. > Thyroid, Adrenals, and others. (thanks to Crunchie > for this info). > www.redappleclinic.co.uk > > > > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> > wrote: phil my LH is high because my T is > low, my body is > trying to get them to pump out more T. > > now the question remains something is supressing the > T, which is most likely the E2. and I have the > solution for it, and will talk to my professor. > > but as my testicle size is very small, could anyone > recommend on an idea of HCG therapy for me? maybe > once > my E2 is suppressed, my T will automatically boost > up, > causing my LH to balance, and over a year or so, my > testicles could develop? > > but if i still need HCG, in order to help raise my > 2% > functional sperms and to increase my testicular > size, > then has anyone got any recommendations for HCG > therapy? thnx,,, these r my results if anyone can > recommend any ideas/RX (therapy): > > TSH 1.42 mIU/L > Free T4 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L (UK unit) > FSH 6.8 mIU/mL > LH 7.7 lU/L > Oestradiol 32.7 pg/mL > Prolactin 4.94 µg/L > Testosterone 478 ng/dL > 17 OH-Progesterone 0.84 ng/mL > Androstenedione 90.5 ng/dL > Cortisol (Rdm) 7.4 µg/dL > > IgF 1 785 (197-956) ng/ml (UK unit) > Binding Protein 3 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L (UK unit) > > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote: > > > We have gone over this not long ago when I was > told > > my testosterone was low do to my testis not > working > > my TT was 120. My testis got very small the size > of > > small grapes. I asked my Dr. about trying HCG and > > he said your Primary your testis don't make > > testosterone so this would not work. I posted to > > Dr. and this is what he said. > > > > > ======================================================= > > #5 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413586 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:10 PM > > pmgamer18 > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413586 " , true); > > Senior Member > > Join Date: Mar 2005 > > Posts: 6,348 > > > > > > > > I am confused? > > > > --------------------------------- > > I have been on TRT for 21 yrs and I am Primary I > > read SWALE paper on adding HCG to the mix. I asked > > my Dr. if it would help and he felt no. Because my > > Testis don't work. SWALE is he right. > > Phil > > > > > > pmgamer18 View Public Profile Send a > > private message to pmgamer18 Send email to > > pmgamer18 Find all posts by pmgamer18 Add > > pmgamer18 to Your Buddy List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #6 (permalink) > > vbrep_register( " 413606 " ) > > 03-13-2005, 04:53 PM > > SWALE > > vbmenu_register( " postmenu_413606 " , true); > > Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine > > Join Date: Dec 2003 > > Location: Lansing, MI > > Posts: 2,244 > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > No. He probably feels that since you suffer > > primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no > use > > in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several > > reasons why this is not so. First, you have not > lost > > all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will > stimulate > > those who still function to produce endogenous > > testosterone. > > > > This will support testicular size. We should not > > ignore this aesthetic consideration. > > > > Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that > > HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some > > extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone > levels, > > which is the first step after CHOL in all three > > hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG > > increases pregnenolone production, and therefore > > restores a more natural balance of our hormones. > > > > Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to > > their regimens report an increased sense of > > well-being and also libido. These are genuine > > quality of life issues. > > > > Finally, I just instinctively do not want all > those > > LH receptors (including those we have yet to > > discover and appreciate) unstimulated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > After I showed this post to my Dr. he let me try > > HCG and my TT levels doubled this is how I found > out > > I am not Primary but Seconday the man saved my > life. > > Anyway there are just a mess of LH receptors cell > > all over our body and brain. Doing TRT shuts down > > LH I can't see anyone not benefiting from adding > in > > HCG. Most of the men that are primary were make > > some T to get there levels to show on a lab test > so > > adding HCG will but your testis back to work and > > this is better then them not working. > > > > Norsworthy <norsworthy_david@...> > wrote: > > I would like to enter this point into the > > fray. If your hypogonadism is due to testicular > > failure, or rather the testes are not responding > to > > the LH from the pituitary, then how is HCG going > to > === message truncated === __________________________________________________________ Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. " Phil --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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