hcg

[Guest guest]

First of all: guage and length have nothing to do with

eachother. I use a 25ga but could see using a smaller

guage (27, 30 etc.). The larger the guage, the easier

it is to depress the syringe. Mainly, I think it

depends on the viscosity of the injectible - if it's

like water (like our hCG is), then there is no real

need for anything larger than a 25. The T I was on was

suspended in oil and therefore it was too thick

(viscous) to go through a 25 or smaller guage. I had

to use a 22.

As for length, I use a 1 inch needle in order to

penetrate well into my thigh muscle. It all depends on

your injection site and how much fat or muscle

thickness you have. Flex the muscles of the site and

see what you have to go through - pick a needle length

accordingly.

And of course, this only applies to those doing

intra-muscular injections, not sub-cutaneous (sp?).

Jayson

BTW, I used to get a charlie horse feeling too because

all my docs and nurses said to apply pressure by

rubbing the area after a shot. Since I stopped rubbing

the area and just apply mild downward pressure, no

more charlie horses.

--- skysoldier173us <no_reply > wrote:

> I just took my first shot of HCG(1,000iu) yesterday

> and today feel

> better than I have in a long time. The nurse used a

> 25 gauge

> shotgun, er needle though and jabbed me in the thigh

> but felt like a

> charlie horse even slightly today. I'm not looking

> forwar to that 3

> times a week. Schippen says you can use a 29 or 30

> gauge but my

> nurse said its not long enough. Any opinions? Also

> have any of you

> used the stomach area. I'm optimistic now though

> because I've tried

> AndroGel, the patch other creams(RenewYouth)etc.

> also clomiphene but

> none has worked as fast or as good as HCG. Can I

> expect even more as

> time goes on?

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Bob... I have asked Dr Crisler regarding hcg on the Finasteride

group, as I was concerned that perhaps my dosing was a bit too high

at 750-1000iu a few times a week... His RULE is NEVER exceed 500iu

per day, if you need more take it daily. He says that most doctors

have no idea how to use it and that its much stronger than most

people realise. I even asked about what is said on the medications

patient info... 1000-2000iu 2-3 times a week, apparently incorrect

in his opinion.

Cheers.

> I did the hcG test injection this morning. 5000 IUs IM. After

about

> an hour I had a very stuffed up nose, felt light headed, and a

> little blury eyed. Does that mean it is working and getting my

> testosterone level through the roof, was expecting a spike 2 hours

> after the shot and a second one 48 hours later.

>

> I go for another blood draw on Monday. 72 hours after the shot. do

> the 2nd shot Monday evening (1000 IUs SubQ. Then I go back to the

> doc on Thursday to compare Wed and Mon Total T and Free T.

> I am supposed to stay on 2 pkgs of androgel until then. Been

doing

> that since July 14th.

>

> Thursday we will discuss if 1000 IUs 2x a week (Monday evening,

> Friday Morning) is what I want to stay on for 5 weeks or if a

> smaller dose 3x a week would work better. The goal is to reverse

> testicular atrophy.

>

> Assuming that things work out and my testicles get back to normal

> size or larger , the next step is to try clomid.

>

> My question is will clomid get your lh/fsh numbers up even if you

> stay on androgel. Have heard both answers from different anti-

aging

> clinics.

>

> Bob

[Guest guest]

The initial dose was from the AACE guidelines for an hcG test. to

see if my testicles will respond or not. the doses going forward

are not really documented anywhere I can find other than body

building sites. The higher doses for a short period are supposed to

reverse atrophy which is what I am looking for. I have one package

of 15,000 IUs. Used 5000 IUs on Friday, an planning on spliting the

rest up. Do you think 500 IU 3x/week is enough to finish restoring

size.

If this works I will try the clomid test (see AACE guidelines).

Clomid is suppose to maintain enough function to prevent atrophy

from happening again.

If I do not like the side effects of clomid I will switch to lower

dose of hcG maybe as low as 500 IU per week. just to keep em from

shrinking.

Thanks,

Bob

> > I did the hcG test injection this morning. 5000 IUs IM. After

> about

> > an hour I had a very stuffed up nose, felt light headed, and a

> > little blury eyed. Does that mean it is working and getting my

> > testosterone level through the roof, was expecting a spike 2

hours

> > after the shot and a second one 48 hours later.

> >

> > I go for another blood draw on Monday. 72 hours after the shot.

do

> > the 2nd shot Monday evening (1000 IUs SubQ. Then I go back to

the

> > doc on Thursday to compare Wed and Mon Total T and Free T.

> > I am supposed to stay on 2 pkgs of androgel until then. Been

> doing

> > that since July 14th.

> >

> > Thursday we will discuss if 1000 IUs 2x a week (Monday evening,

> > Friday Morning) is what I want to stay on for 5 weeks or if a

> > smaller dose 3x a week would work better. The goal is to

reverse

> > testicular atrophy.

> >

> > Assuming that things work out and my testicles get back to

normal

> > size or larger , the next step is to try clomid.

> >

> > My question is will clomid get your lh/fsh numbers up even if

you

> > stay on androgel. Have heard both answers from different anti-

> aging

> > clinics.

> >

> > Bob

[Guest guest]

You aren't going to find out if hcg works by taking an amount that is large

enough to desensitize your testicles to hcg. Stay with the 500 units a day

for three weeks and then test.

Winter

>From: " Bob " <ballen3_2000@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: hcG

>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 14:10:25 -0000

>

>The initial dose was from the AACE guidelines for an hcG test. to

>see if my testicles will respond or not. the doses going forward

>are not really documented anywhere I can find other than body

>building sites. The higher doses for a short period are supposed to

>reverse atrophy which is what I am looking for. I have one package

>of 15,000 IUs. Used 5000 IUs on Friday, an planning on spliting the

>rest up. Do you think 500 IU 3x/week is enough to finish restoring

>size.

>

>If this works I will try the clomid test (see AACE guidelines).

>Clomid is suppose to maintain enough function to prevent atrophy

>from happening again.

>

>If I do not like the side effects of clomid I will switch to lower

>dose of hcG maybe as low as 500 IU per week. just to keep em from

>shrinking.

>

>Thanks,

>Bob

>

>

> > > I did the hcG test injection this morning. 5000 IUs IM. After

> > about

> > > an hour I had a very stuffed up nose, felt light headed, and a

> > > little blury eyed. Does that mean it is working and getting my

> > > testosterone level through the roof, was expecting a spike 2

>hours

> > > after the shot and a second one 48 hours later.

> > >

> > > I go for another blood draw on Monday. 72 hours after the shot.

>do

> > > the 2nd shot Monday evening (1000 IUs SubQ. Then I go back to

>the

> > > doc on Thursday to compare Wed and Mon Total T and Free T.

> > > I am supposed to stay on 2 pkgs of androgel until then. Been

> > doing

> > > that since July 14th.

> > >

> > > Thursday we will discuss if 1000 IUs 2x a week (Monday evening,

> > > Friday Morning) is what I want to stay on for 5 weeks or if a

> > > smaller dose 3x a week would work better. The goal is to

>reverse

> > > testicular atrophy.

> > >

> > > Assuming that things work out and my testicles get back to

>normal

> > > size or larger , the next step is to try clomid.

> > >

> > > My question is will clomid get your lh/fsh numbers up even if

>you

> > > stay on androgel. Have heard both answers from different anti-

> > aging

> > > clinics.

> > >

> > > Bob

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Bob,

I would try the lower doses to be on the safe side. Perhaps stay on

the hcg for a longer period and gradually get your testes back up to

size. I know the BB sites say high doses for only 2-3 weeks and then

drop it altogther for a month or so. But that doesnt make sense... a

low constant dose seems more like what our body would produce of LH,

well it actually produces small bursts during the day.

I think I would trust the advise of a doctor who is very familar

with its use rather than BB sites. If you are going to stay on the T

therapy, i think hcg is what you would use... 500iu once or twice a

week. But intially you may need it more often to regain size, but

not greater amounts than 500iu per day.

> > > I did the hcG test injection this morning. 5000 IUs IM. After

> > about

> > > an hour I had a very stuffed up nose, felt light headed, and a

> > > little blury eyed. Does that mean it is working and getting

my

> > > testosterone level through the roof, was expecting a spike 2

> hours

> > > after the shot and a second one 48 hours later.

> > >

> > > I go for another blood draw on Monday. 72 hours after the

shot.

> do

> > > the 2nd shot Monday evening (1000 IUs SubQ. Then I go back to

> the

> > > doc on Thursday to compare Wed and Mon Total T and Free T.

> > > I am supposed to stay on 2 pkgs of androgel until then. Been

> > doing

> > > that since July 14th.

> > >

> > > Thursday we will discuss if 1000 IUs 2x a week (Monday

evening,

> > > Friday Morning) is what I want to stay on for 5 weeks or if a

> > > smaller dose 3x a week would work better. The goal is to

> reverse

> > > testicular atrophy.

> > >

> > > Assuming that things work out and my testicles get back to

> normal

> > > size or larger , the next step is to try clomid.

> > >

> > > My question is will clomid get your lh/fsh numbers up even if

> you

> > > stay on androgel. Have heard both answers from different anti-

> > aging

> > > clinics.

> > >

> > > Bob

[Guest guest]

First hire a lawyer, sounds like a law suit to me. For your

question. HCG is suppersive to you pituitary. If you testicles are

capible of making T then it will raise your levels. My total T was

212 (range 260-1000) on 1 pkg androgel/day, did the hcG test as

described in the AACE guidelines and my levels jumpped to 1633. I

now do 500 IUs 3x/week will get another test in 3 weeks to see what

it has stablized at. Still using the androgel until I get new

numbers. FYI, my testicles have regained most of the cm that they

had lost while on androgel alone.

The thing on your pituitary, I have no advice there other than talk

to your DR. And that the hcG directly stimulates the testicles.

The sub q injections are ez and I usually hate shots.

Best of Luck,

Bob

> hello all...i've been lurking around the messages boards for some

> time now. I'm considering trying HCG to increase my T levels. For

> those that dont know i suffer from messed up hormones from using

> propecia, the hairloss drug. I'm not using HCG to increase sperm

> rather just to increase T. Now can anyone tell me the pros and

cons

> of HCG? Also i heard that it simulates FSH thereby increasing

sperm

> count. Then will this mean my pituitary will shut down? Last month

i

> went for an MRI and they found an enhancement in my pituitarty and

> they dont know if its a lesion or tumor. Is it wise to try HCG

with

> my current problem, not knowing whats in my pituitary?

Thanks...btw i

> am 26yo never had any sexual problems before propecia.

[Guest guest]

> Hi I went back into the messages and found the posts that

Zolt....

Hi Philip,

Excellent and very interesting clip. For myself HCG could possibly be

a way to go. One question though, in the cut and paste Dr Shippens

states that:

7. Except for reports of antibodies developing against CG (I have not

seen this), there are no adverse effects of chronic CG administration.

An additional benefit is the boosting of Growth Hormone output which

has also been reported, either as a direct effect of CG or as an

effect of increased levels of testosterone.

Do you know what GH he is talking about ? Since my IGF-1 are way up,

and too much is apparently a no-no especially of you have prostate

problems, I don't want to increase my IGF-1 even more if embarking on

a HCG regime. Any one here with long term experience of HCG

treatment ?

Tomas

[Guest guest]

Phil,

Thanks for reposting this. I have bookmarked it as I hope to start on

HCG within the next year.

Mark

[Guest guest]

I don't know I don't us Hcg. But some time ago when I was looking in to in I

did this search.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & lr= & ie=UTF-8 & q=%2BHcG+%2Blow+testosterone+%2B\

men & btnG=Google+Search

It is 2 links long so cut & paste it. Maybe you will find you anser.

Phil

teedeebeey <tomasbertmark@...> wrote:

> Hi I went back into the messages and found the posts that

Zolt....

Hi Philip,

Excellent and very interesting clip. For myself HCG could possibly be

a way to go. One question though, in the cut and paste Dr Shippens

states that:

7. Except for reports of antibodies developing against CG (I have not

seen this), there are no adverse effects of chronic CG administration.

An additional benefit is the boosting of Growth Hormone output which

has also been reported, either as a direct effect of CG or as an

effect of increased levels of testosterone.

Do you know what GH he is talking about ? Since my IGF-1 are way up,

and too much is apparently a no-no especially of you have prostate

problems, I don't want to increase my IGF-1 even more if embarking on

a HCG regime. Any one here with long term experience of HCG

treatment ?

Tomas

[Guest guest]

Has anyone here experienced testicle pain on HCG or T treatment?

[Guest guest]

I think testicle pain can happen if your estradiol levels get too

high. This is based on what others have posted in the group based

on their experiences. My estradiol is high, I'm not on any

treatment, but I have testicle and/or prostate pain.

How severe is the pain?

Dave K.

> Has anyone here experienced testicle pain on HCG or T treatment?

[Guest guest]

I never knew that high E2 caused prostate and testicle pain..do u

have any references on this? I would like to bring this to my doc if

possible. The pain isnt so bad now, it all stemmed when i used

propecia and SP for hairloss and the pain was almost unbearable. I

still feel some pain once in a while but not as bad. I know using

those drugs increased my T levels and lowered my DHT. Not sure what

it did to my E2 tho. Also currently my E2 is in a good range but my

T is low. I dont know if those hairloss drugs caused my low T but i

would hate to experience the pains again if i tried HCG.

> > Has anyone here experienced testicle pain on HCG or T treatment?

[Guest guest]

Have u tried zinc to lower ur E2?

> > Has anyone here experienced testicle pain on HCG or T treatment?

[Guest guest]

I actually have a link that has something on " hormone-induced "

prostatitis. It's kind of long, but the first few paragraphs are

very informative.

http://www.geocities.com/bill3320/hormones.html

My estradiol level is 49, and I've been having on and off

prostate/testicle pain for nearly 8 months. Initially my doctor

insisted it was an infection, but I had to convince him that hormone

imbalances can also cause prostate pain.

What are your levels if I may ask? T, free T, estradiol in

particular?

Dave K.

> > > Has anyone here experienced testicle pain on HCG or T

treatment?

[Guest guest]

I have tried zinc but it just made me sick. It has helped me

somewhat to limit my alcohol intake. Normally when I have a few

beers, the next day the pain is more pronounced. I think alcohol

can promote estrogen production. Maybe someone can back me up on

this, but I think I read that somewhere.

Dave K.

> > > Has anyone here experienced testicle pain on HCG or T

treatment?

[Guest guest]

Yes, estrogen increases as alcohol consumption goes up.

> Re: HCG

>

>

>

> I have tried zinc but it just made me sick. It has helped me

> somewhat to limit my alcohol intake. Normally when I have a

> few beers, the next day the pain is more pronounced. I think

> alcohol can promote estrogen production. Maybe someone can

> back me up on this, but I think I read that somewhere.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Shortly after starting androgel I had a dull ache in my testicles,

was told it was because of atrophy and once they completly atrophy

it should go away.

When I started the hcG, the ache returned, but different, almost a

good ache if there is such a thing. It is kinda there way of

telling me that they are still alive and are working. It is not

enough to really bother me at this time.

And yes they are returning to normal size.

Bob

> Has anyone here experienced testicle pain on HCG or T treatment?

[Guest guest]

If your testis still work why would a Dr. want to shout them down by giving you

TRT. It just goes to show you a lot of Dr.'s just don't know how to treat a man

with Low T. Everone should read the AACE Guildlines and Print it and give it to

your Dr.

http://www.aace.com/clin/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf

Phil

Bob <ballen3_2000@...> wrote:

That is what a lot of docs will tell you. Need to be presistant.

Just today I got my doc to write a script for it. I had used an

online doc to get some to try it and when he saw the results he was

amazed. Hopefully he learned something for the next guy.

Bob

> > > > > Has anyone here experienced testicle pain on HCG or T

> > treatment?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am not sure but this is what I found on Z

http://mailgate.supereva.it/sci/sci.life-extension/msg11366.html

And I found this on what happens when you go on T.

http://www.testosterone.uk.net/extra-testosterone-effects.htm

Phil

adr_59 <alexdr@...> wrote:

As a secondary HH, I am very interested in this eight article.

Did a google search, but it returned nothing.

Could you be more specific as to where to find this article?

Thanks

hello all...i've been

> lurking around the messages boards for some

> time now. I'm considering trying HCG to increase my T levels. For

> those that dont know i suffer from messed up hormones from using

> propecia, the hairloss drug. I'm not using HCG to increase sperm

> rather just to increase T. Now can anyone tell me the pros and cons

> of HCG? Also i heard that it simulates FSH thereby increasing sperm

> count. Then will this mean my pituitary will shut down? Last month i

> went for an MRI and they found an enhancement in my pituitarty and

> they dont know if its a lesion or tumor. Is it wise to try HCG with

> my current problem, not knowing whats in my pituitary? Thanks...btw

i

> am 26yo never had any sexual problems before propecia.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I tried, but it's not behaving. I put up a bad link, but it won't let

> me edit it or even delete it.

>

>

I can't do anything with it either. I think the length of the link

text may be too great for " Links " section to cope with.

Perhaps you could list the links in a straight text file and upload it

to the " Files " section.

Brad

[Guest guest]

> I tried Clomid and didn't like it. Felt like I was on a drug.

>

> Also, Clomid works by blocking E2 (not by reducing it). Clomid blocks

> some aspects of E2 but not others. Doesn't sound very good long term to

> me. E2 is vital to your health. You need E2 as much as you need T.

> The key is balance.

>

> IMHO, Clomid is good as a diagnostic tool but that's about it.

>

>

Thanks ,

I think others have posted that they didn't particularly like Clomid

even when it works in the total t sense. I am never sure why people

are so eager to use clomid over hcg. Perhaps it is just oral vs

injectible.

Brad

[Guest guest]

There has so much discussion on this product that I am now

confused. I've read the material available on other web sites and

also have done some research on my own which is probably why I'm

confused.

I have two questions:

First - Who should take HCG and who should not?

Second - What are the benefits of taking HCG? I gather it is to

stimulate the testis to begin making it owns " T " . How does that

interact if your own supplemental " T " .

Thanks for your responses.

[Guest guest]

Joe,

From what I understand HCG will only work if you are secondary. It

basically acts like LH from your pituitary would - it instructs your

testicles to make testosterone.

Sounds like one of the most effective treatments is to combine HCG

with supplemental T. I know Dr. does that, and my endo has

talked about doing it as well.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Joe,

I am not a Doc.

hcG looks like lh to your testicles. If your testicles are can make

testosterone it will tell them to do so.

hcG serves a couple roles. One it can show you and your doc that

your testicles can function which is important to some people. To

determine if you have primary or centeral/secondary hypogonadism.

Which for me was important as if I was primary I was going to get

them replaced with much larger silicone ones.

If they can function then it can be used to keep them stimulated to

work. Which in addition to causing them to make testosterone it may

reverse/prevent atrophy.

Because it directly stimulates the testicles it can be used with TRT

to either reduce the dose or just to keep your testicles up to

size/function.

Bob

> There has so much discussion on this product that I am now

> confused. I've read the material available on other web sites and

> also have done some research on my own which is probably why I'm

> confused.

>

> I have two questions:

>

> First - Who should take HCG and who should not?

>

> Second - What are the benefits of taking HCG? I gather it is to

> stimulate the testis to begin making it owns " T " . How does that

> interact if your own supplemental " T " .

>

> Thanks for your responses.

[Guest guest]

I would get some bobble rap and an ice pack and do it this way as for the

needlies get a letter from your Dr. but call the air line and ask how to do

this.

Phil

xrougesquadronxx <gqxtk3333@...> wrote:

Hey guys i'm planning to travel abroad outside of the United States

and wonder how i can bring HCG and the needles on the plane and keep

it refrigerated. Has anyone here been able to keep it refrigerated on

a long flight and how can u bring the needles on flight? And is HCG

still usable if its not refrigerated for say 30hrs..thanks