Estrogen blockers

[Guest guest]

I would like to hear from anyone who has used any estrogen blockers

like Chrysin, DIM, Arimidex or anything else. Do any of these work?

I would like to hear about your experiences, side effects and

generally how you're feeling on estrogen blockers.

[Guest guest]

I know of 3 things that keep Estradiol levels lower Zinc up to 50 mgs a day but

it lower Copper so you need to add 2 mgs of Copper to every 50 mgs of Zinc you

take. All men need Zinc and most if not all men in the USA because of the corn

fed meat we eat don't have good levels of Zinc. I take ZMA to replace my Zinc

and get it from my multi V. I take ZMA at bedtime and 2 mgs of Coppper at noon.

The other supplement that will help with high levels of Estradiol is

Indolplex/DIM with some TMG take the Indolplex/DIM at dinner time and the TMG at

bedtime.

There are a lot of meds that lower Estradiol the one that most men use is

Arimidex. Most men do will talking 1/4 of a one mg. pill every 2 to 3 days to

keep Estradiol levels in check.

The following is why we take TMG with Indolplex/DIM from Dr. .

====================================================

That is a bombshell of a study, jb. I had not seen it before.

Please refer to the attached chart.

The CYP1A1 enzyme produces the wonderfully beneficial 2-hydroxyestrone

metabolite. Therefore increasing its activity is a very good thing.

The CYP1B1 enzyme makes 4-hydroxyestrone, which, like 16-alpha-hydroxyestrone,

is genotoxic, mutagenic and procarcinogenic. However, 4-OHE is inhibited with

DMG. A better choice might be TMG, which becomes DMG after it donates a methyl

group, and that event has various and sundary health benefits of its own. TMG

must be taken at about twice the amount of DMG for its effects on estrogen

management.

I have never heard anyone say this before, but perhaps we should not ever take

DIM without TMG/DMG also, lest we increase 4-OHE levels. I will be lecturing on

this very topic before the Royal College of Physicians in a few weeks, so maybe

I have something new to share with them. Thank you for making me think about

this topic today.

Calcium D-glucarate also inhibits 4-OHE. AAL Laboratories says folic acid will

as well.

My understanding is that DIM improves the healthful 2-hydroxyestrone to nasty

16-alpha-hydroxyestrone ratio.

Here is the text from a slide in the lecture I give before the A4M:

To increase 2-OHE/16-aOHE:

Phytoestrogens

High protein, low fat diet

Reduce Omega-6 and AA generators

Add Omega-3�s

Add flaxseed

Di-indolemethane--DIM (300mg QD)

Indole-3-carbinol (I-3-C)

Inhibit aromatase activity

I have heard that DIM inhibits the CYP3A4 enzyme, which produces 16-aOHE, and

that is also why 2-OHE/16-aOHE ratio goes up, but I am not sure about this.

Perhaps someone else can come up with something on it.

As far as DIM causing an overall increase in total estrogens, I have heard the

opposite. Dr. Zeligs has written several articles on it, and so I have

always considered DIM to have CYP19 (aromatase)-inhibiting properties. Maybe

this is wrong, though.

Let's continue to dig in on this subject. At the end of my " A Primer on Estrogen

Management in the Adult Male Patient " lecture, I close by calling this topic the

" new frontier in TRT medicine " . I truly believe it is that important.

----------------------------------------------------

The following are some files I made with info on or about the above.

===================================================

ALL ABOUT DIM.

Sure here is a few links that are all about it. But there are a lot of Co.'s

out there selling DIM that don't work well. Indolplex/DIM is the best it dose

not get killed in your stomach when you take it.

Diindolylmethane (DIM) is a stable indole found in cruciferous vegetables which

promotes a beneficial estrogen metabolism in both women and men.

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

in this link it's full of links about it.

http://qualitycounts.com/fpdim.html

http://www.jbc.org/content/278/23/21136.full

If you have DIM in caps it's not Indolplex so to take this and to get it to work

open the cap pore the DIM into a spoon add some Olive oil and take it this helps

to keep it from getting killed in your stomach.

The following is some links to where you can buy Indolplex/DIM.

http://www.vitaglo.com/e5336.html

http://www.vitacost.com/EnzymaticTherapyEstroBalancewithDIM/searchby-PN/searchte\

xt-dim

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Pure-Rip-with-DIM-60-Tablets/12814?at=0

http://www.estrobalance.net/

http://www.easyhealthzone.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PP0108 & click=71

http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/213.html

http://www.drugnatural.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD & Store_Code=DMOS & Product_\

Code=156497

http://www.smartbomb.com/itindo9.html?utm_source=mercent & utm_medium=shopcompare & \

utm_content=itindo9 & utm_campaign=mbsdb & mr:trackingCode=C6AEFBD1-E681-DE11-B7F3-0\

019B9C043EB & mr:referralID=NA

http://www.ritecare.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?db=product_db.dat & category=natural+medic\

ine & method=any_words & search=iti-75336

http://www.naturamart.com/phytopharmica-pms-formula-with-indoplex-120-caps.html

How to take Indolplex/DIM take one tablet 120 mgs at dinner time it can take 2

weeks to 2 months to get your Estradiol levels down it’s all about how high

you are in your levels. What you need to do is get this down to about 20 pg/ml.

When you get this low your night time and morning wood will come back so strong

it will wake you up this means most of the time your at your best levels or what

I call the sweet spot. Keep taking the DIM but if your wood stops your going

down to low so just stop taking it. The day your wood comes back go back on

the DIM but cut the tablet in half. If your Testosterone was tested and low but

your not on TRT get it tested again you might find your levels came up some 200

to 300 points.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

===================================================

How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.

What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your

to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to

make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on

your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I

went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or

how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low

until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your

night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you

get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you

can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to

cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge

razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your

levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day

after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said

>90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time

and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the

day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could

not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the

Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex

my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we

went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was

on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low

you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels

back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after

playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3

days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down

so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with

lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your

lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down

from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need

..25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this

to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading

back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets

me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.

====================================================

Most compounding pharmacies will require a prescription from a doctor, before

they do this.

Once your prescription says " 300 caps x 0.1mg " or " 600 caps x 0.05mg "

anastrozole " from 1 to 4 daily " , (anastrozole = generic arimidex) then they will

compound your arimidex, or generic anastrozole, and they will usually supply the

arimidex as compounded into the caps you require.

My compounding pharmacist was prepared to allow me to supply the arimidex too.

If you have several boxes of arimidex in your cupboard, then you may want to ask

your pharmacist to do this for you.

If you don't have any arimidex stores, then just let the compounding pharmacy

supply the whole lot.

###

A pack of 30 tabs of 1.0mg arimidex will give 300 caps at 0.1mg-per-cap, or 600

caps at 0.05mg-per-cap.

So if your pharmacy chooses to supply arimidex as opposed to generic

anastrozole, then your pharmacy will most likely not agree to only charge you

for a half-a-box of arimidex, and most likely they'll charge for a whole box,

even if your prescription says 300 caps at 0.05mg-per-cap (total of 15mg).

Co-Moderator

Phil

> From: Ade Maiquel Rowley <spadeboy@...>

> Subject: Estrogen Blockers

> " Hypogonadism 2 " < >

> Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 10:49 PM

> Hi Folks

>

> I hope all is well with you guys.  A very quick

> question for you.  There are a lot of " natural "

> products out there which are given as blocking estrogen or

> at least working in a very similar way to Arimidex. 

> For example:  Sustain Alpha; Reversitol; Arom X and so

> forth.  The question is, are they any good or just a

> waste of money.  A lot of the read-ups seem to suggest

> they are more of a throw back from the conventional - all of

> them claim not to have the " nasty side effects " of various

> mainstream drugs (I so wish I had a pound for every time I

> have heard that).

>

> Thanks for your time

>

> Ade

>

>