Re: Indoplex With Dim Question?

[Guest guest]

Ask him to test you before the DIM and after the DIM.

Hey presto- cause and effect.

> I saw my endo yesterday. I showed him my Indoplex with Dim.

> He thinks it is a scam. He asked me for medical evidence that it

worked. Does anyone know where I can get proof?

>

> My E2 was 51 range 0-53

> Total T was 752.12 range 241-827

> He said it was good and I did not need an anti-estrogen. He likes

the high T level though.

> Kissie

[Guest guest]

All I can say is I have seen 7 Endo's in the 21 yrs. that I have had low T and

not one was any good. The last one I seen wanted to stop my meds for 3 months

to retest me I asked him how many men does he treat and he told me I was his

first. I just got up and walked out. Find a better Dr.

Phil

kissie2004@... wrote:

I saw my endo yesterday. I showed him my Indoplex with Dim.

He thinks it is a scam. He asked me for medical evidence that it worked. Does

anyone know where I can get proof?

My E2 was 51 range 0-53

Total T was 752.12 range 241-827

He said it was good and I did not need an anti-estrogen. He likes the high T

level though.

Kissie

[Guest guest]

Hey Phil to be fair I don't think that the problem is being an

endocrinologist.

I mean it is better to have an endocrinologist that has studied and

specialized in hormomes than it is to have a general doctor with

less expertise.

I think the problems lie in the fact that there are lots of

differing fields within endocrinology- but this largely goes

unmentioned.

Hence you and many other guys seeing endocrinologists who have never

dealt with hypogonadism or have little experience with dealing with

it.

I saw an endocrinologist who was a top bod within the UK- but again

he was a specialist with diabetes.

There are so many specialties within endocrinology- the guy you saw

could have specilized in diabetes, Pituitary problems, growth issues

and osteo conditions etc etc etc.

So I think if you can find the rare beast that is an endocrinologist

that specializes in reproductive issues/hormones and he keeps up-to-

date then I think you're more likely to be onto a winner.

Alternatively andrologists are guys who study the pharmocology,

conditions, medications and everthing else associated with

andropause and hypogonadism but are just as qualified as any

endocrinologist- they are certainly top bods.

> I saw my endo yesterday. I showed him my Indoplex with Dim.

> He thinks it is a scam. He asked me for medical evidence that it

worked. Does anyone know where I can get proof?

>

> My E2 was 51 range 0-53

> Total T was 752.12 range 241-827

> He said it was good and I did not need an anti-estrogen. He likes

the high T level though.

> Kissie

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Grrr....

Why is he asking you for proof? He can easily look it up himself. The

medical evidence is widespread - a google of

dim estradiol study

gave this result as the first study - there are literally a hundred more.

http://www.metagenics.com/PDF/position_papers/Position%20Paper-I3C.pdf

But listen here. THE REFERENCE RANGES ARE MEANINGLESS. You wouldn't be

getting that test if you weren't having a problem in that regard - and

the reference ranges are just an amalgamation on all the test results.

If he can't folow that logic, he's either stupid... or criminally

negligent, like most doctors are. Remember, the only thing they're

looking for is your money. Dr. , don't bother contradicting. Dr

Hulinsky, you neither. Something you might not realize is most Doctors

are in it for the money, and not all of them are smart like you guys.

The guy who graduates last in his class is called Dr. just like you are.

Assume your Dr. is a know-nothing unless you have information otherwise.

Louis Nardozi

> Message: 11

> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:18:23 -0400

> From: <kissie2004@...>

> Subject: Indoplex With Dim Question?

>

> I saw my endo yesterday. I showed him my Indoplex with Dim.

> He thinks it is a scam. He asked me for medical evidence that it worked. Does

anyone know where I can get proof?

>

> My E2 was 51 range 0-53

> Total T was 752.12 range 241-827

> He said it was good and I did not need an anti-estrogen. He likes the high T

level though.

> Kissie

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.25/102 - Release Date: 9/14/2005

[Guest guest]

Kissie -

before starting DIM, I would recommend testing total Estrogen. My

understanding of DIM and I3C is that they assist the conversion of

E2 to Estrogen. For myself, my Estrogen is already high, so

something like this wouldn't help that situation. If yours is low

or at a comfortable level, DIM might be a good solution.

I have found a) Zinc picolinate at 25mg 3x day and Chrysin 500 -

750mg with 5m bioperine for absorption to help with lowering E2.

Drake

> Grrr....

>

> Why is he asking you for proof? He can easily look it up himself.

The

> medical evidence is widespread - a google of

>

> dim estradiol study

>

> gave this result as the first study - there are literally a

hundred more.

>

> http://www.metagenics.com/PDF/position_papers/Position%20Paper-

I3C.pdf

>

> But listen here. THE REFERENCE RANGES ARE MEANINGLESS. You

wouldn't be

> getting that test if you weren't having a problem in that regard -

and

> the reference ranges are just an amalgamation on all the test

results.

> If he can't folow that logic, he's either stupid... or criminally

> negligent, like most doctors are. Remember, the only thing they're

> looking for is your money. Dr. , don't bother contradicting.

Dr

> Hulinsky, you neither. Something you might not realize is most

Doctors

> are in it for the money, and not all of them are smart like you

guys.

> The guy who graduates last in his class is called Dr. just like

you are.

> Assume your Dr. is a know-nothing unless you have information

otherwise.

>

> Louis Nardozi

>

>

> > Message: 11

> > Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:18:23 -0400

> > From: <kissie2004@p...>

> > Subject: Indoplex With Dim Question?

> >

> > I saw my endo yesterday. I showed him my Indoplex with Dim.

> > He thinks it is a scam. He asked me for medical evidence that it

worked. Does anyone know where I can get proof?

> >

> > My E2 was 51 range 0-53

> > Total T was 752.12 range 241-827

> > He said it was good and I did not need an anti-estrogen. He

likes the high T level though.

> > Kissie

>

>

>

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.25/102 - Release Date:

9/14/2005

[Guest guest]

Say what you will but over here the worst kind of Dr. to see is an Endo for low

T. All 7 that I have seen I called to make an app. and asked questions as to do

they treat men with low T and do they treat a lot of men wiith Low t. Thay all

said they do and not one did hell the last one told me him self that he treats

me for low t. I went to see him the cost $150.00 for the first office vist not

payed for by my Health plain. I gave him copys of my blood tests he did not

even look at them and told me the same story the last 6 told me. I need you to

stop your T meds so I can retest you. The last on told me he wanted me to stop

for 3 months. I then asked him if he does this the others that have low T and

he goofed and told me I was his first to treat for low T. I just got up and

left. I wasted a lot of money did this Endo's don't get any training on T. I

know of 2 maybe 3 men that are seeing an Endo and getting good treatment.

Phil

chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

Hey Phil to be fair I don't think that the problem is being an

endocrinologist.

I mean it is better to have an endocrinologist that has studied and

specialized in hormomes than it is to have a general doctor with

less expertise.

I think the problems lie in the fact that there are lots of

differing fields within endocrinology- but this largely goes

unmentioned.

Hence you and many other guys seeing endocrinologists who have never

dealt with hypogonadism or have little experience with dealing with

it.

I saw an endocrinologist who was a top bod within the UK- but again

he was a specialist with diabetes.

There are so many specialties within endocrinology- the guy you saw

could have specilized in diabetes, Pituitary problems, growth issues

and osteo conditions etc etc etc.

So I think if you can find the rare beast that is an endocrinologist

that specializes in reproductive issues/hormones and he keeps up-to-

date then I think you're more likely to be onto a winner.

Alternatively andrologists are guys who study the pharmocology,

conditions, medications and everthing else associated with

andropause and hypogonadism but are just as qualified as any

endocrinologist- they are certainly top bods.

> I saw my endo yesterday. I showed him my Indoplex with Dim.

> He thinks it is a scam. He asked me for medical evidence that it

worked. Does anyone know where I can get proof?

>

> My E2 was 51 range 0-53

> Total T was 752.12 range 241-827

> He said it was good and I did not need an anti-estrogen. He likes

the high T level though.

> Kissie

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phil I am not looking for an argument with you, you tell me this is

your experience and I believe you.

However my point is that endocrinologists that actually do

specialize in reproductive issues/hormones (few and far between) as

opposed to ones who do not or just say they do- factually know more

about hormones and hypogonadism than your average doc.

There are a lot of endocrinologists out there that are rubbish of

course there are- but there are some great ones to be found too.

One thing worth saying here is that there are also a lot of

charlatans out there who are totally unqualified in this area, who

are no more an expert than you or me apart from being regular

doctors- people who are are just winging it, saying they are experts

when they are not.

> > I saw my endo yesterday. I showed him my Indoplex with Dim.

> > He thinks it is a scam. He asked me for medical evidence that it

> worked. Does anyone know where I can get proof?

> >

> > My E2 was 51 range 0-53

> > Total T was 752.12 range 241-827

> > He said it was good and I did not need an anti-estrogen. He

likes

> the high T level though.

> > Kissie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes your right a lot of Dr.'s out there only know what the Drug Reps tell them.

We are not in an argument here are we I never try to be one sided. Just hate to

see anyone go though the crap I did. Yes there are a lot of good Dr.'s and Some

are Endo's but it makes me dam mad when a new guy posts that he saw an Endo and

was tested for low the and the dam Endo told him he does not have low T his test

was in the normal range. The poor guy would be in the normal range for a 100

yr. old man. I see this here a lot and at WebMD.

Phil

chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

Phil I am not looking for an argument with you, you tell me this is

your experience and I believe you.

However my point is that endocrinologists that actually do

specialize in reproductive issues/hormones (few and far between) as

opposed to ones who do not or just say they do- factually know more

about hormones and hypogonadism than your average doc.

There are a lot of endocrinologists out there that are rubbish of

course there are- but there are some great ones to be found too.

One thing worth saying here is that there are also a lot of

charlatans out there who are totally unqualified in this area, who

are no more an expert than you or me apart from being regular

doctors- people who are are just winging it, saying they are experts

when they are not.

> > I saw my endo yesterday. I showed him my Indoplex with Dim.

> > He thinks it is a scam. He asked me for medical evidence that it

> worked. Does anyone know where I can get proof?

> >

> > My E2 was 51 range 0-53

> > Total T was 752.12 range 241-827

> > He said it was good and I did not need an anti-estrogen. He

likes

> the high T level though.

> > Kissie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>

>

> My biggest problem is my HDL is too low. He says the diet and

excercise will fix the HDL problem also.

> Kissie

I suppose this is off-topic but possibly helpful. You may wish to

investigate niacin therapy. It can cause transient flushing/hot

flashes but it is effective at boosting HDL.

Brad