Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 In a message dated 3/26/2003 2:35:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, nospamplz2003@... writes: > I may continue on Clomid > assuming the side effects arent too bad. What are the side effects? Thanks. Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 If you have secondary hypogonadism, then it is possible you could respond to hCG or Clomid therapy. Generally, your LH and FSH levels will indicate if you are primary or secondary. Low LH and FSH levels could mean your pituitary is not sending signals to your body to produce more Testosterone and sperm. LH is responsible for your T production and FSH your sperm. Zolt has a primer on hCG therapy and the stimulation tests to see if your body will respond. This can be found in the archives if you do a search. Currently I am using 100mg of Clomid a day for 7 days to see if I have primary or secondary hypogonadism. My LH and FSH levels were very low and my T a dismal 200 (scale 265-1000). If my body responds to the Clomid and T rises significantly, I may continue on Clomid assuming the side effects arent too bad. Otherwise I will try hCG. > Hello all. This journey has been terribly frustrating. I finally got > referred to an Endo. But he was an ass and blew off my questions. He > took me off androgel for six weeks to find out if I was secondary or > primary. My test results came back very confusing. I checked out > normal in everything! My T levels were at 400. Before treatment I was > 170 and with shots I only reached 300ish. I still feel like crap most > of the time - I think it was just a fluke that my levels were that > high so I'm returning in another 6 weeks for further testing. Could I > have recovered? WTF?!?! > > Since my other brain chemical tests returned as normal, that must > mean that the hypogonadism must be primary, if indeed I have it at > all. Right? If I still do have hypogonadism, then that means that my > testis are still capable of functioning. And Androgel would put a > stop to that eventually. Is it possible to treat partially > functioning testis with HCG. It seems that it would be better to > stimulate them to work rather than shutting them the rest of the way > off. > > I know I've rambled a lot, but if someone could please help me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 Right now the only side effects I am experiencing is this wierd pressure around my eyes, almost like someone is squeezing them slightly and slightly sensitive to light. Nothing too bad right now but I am also taking 100mg a day for the stimulation test. When I finish the stimulation test, I will drop to 50mg a day before bed. Sleep throught the side effects which generally last like 8 hours. Its only been 3 days so far but it is bearable. The biggest potential problem with Clomid is the possibility that it will decrease libido. If I notice a significant drop in libido then I will definately switch to hCG assuming my body is responsive to the treatment. > In a message dated 3/26/2003 2:35:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, > nospamplz2003@y... writes: > > > > I may continue on Clomid > > assuming the side effects arent too bad. > > What are the side effects? Thanks. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 Was estrogen (estradiol) included in the test? It's all about balance. A man's body needs to have more test. than estrogen, and looking at testosterone without the other hormones is only looking at part of the picture. Most endos seem to forget this and don't look at estrogen in men because it's not supposed to be an issue. That combined with the fact that he didn't seem to listen to you is cause, I think, for you to find another endocrinologist. Regarding what hCG can do for you, you might want to get in touch with places that do testosterone replacement therapy. They are doctors who seem to have a more open mind about men with low testosterone and related issues. Good luck! SM >From: " justusreule " <jreule@...> >Reply- > >Subject: So confused!!! >Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 18:20:54 -0000 > >Hello all. This journey has been terribly frustrating. I finally got >referred to an Endo. But he was an ass and blew off my questions. He >took me off androgel for six weeks to find out if I was secondary or >primary. My test results came back very confusing. I checked out >normal in everything! My T levels were at 400. Before treatment I was >170 and with shots I only reached 300ish. I still feel like crap most >of the time - I think it was just a fluke that my levels were that >high so I'm returning in another 6 weeks for further testing. Could I >have recovered? WTF?!?! > >Since my other brain chemical tests returned as normal, that must >mean that the hypogonadism must be primary, if indeed I have it at >all. Right? If I still do have hypogonadism, then that means that my >testis are still capable of functioning. And Androgel would put a >stop to that eventually. Is it possible to treat partially >functioning testis with HCG. It seems that it would be better to >stimulate them to work rather than shutting them the rest of the way >off. > >I know I've rambled a lot, but if someone could please help me. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 For people prone to liver problems, clomid can increase chances of problems there. It's important to stay under a doctor's supervision with regular blood tests to see how things progress. Also, it can cause vision disturbances....floaters, tracers, shooting stars, etc. It can also make you moody and give you hot flashes (I think those sides are more apparent with women). Also, possibly water retention and rashes. I don't know off hand the distribution of those effects in a controlled study, but I know you can find that through a search on the Web. SM >From: zephyr8994@... >Reply- > >Subject: Re: Re: So confused!!! >Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:55:00 EST > >In a message dated 3/26/2003 2:35:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, >nospamplz2003@... writes: > > > > I may continue on Clomid > > assuming the side effects arent too bad. > >What are the side effects? Thanks. > >Z _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 I've been asking my endo (and his predecessor) to test my Oestrogen levels for over 3 years, since I learned that these tests were important too. Has he tested me? No, he keeps telling me it's not necessary. I am booking a private consultation to have my T and E levels checked. If my E levels turn out to be too high, I'll be sending him the bill! Steph ----- Original Message ----- From: " Stanley Mark " Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 8:15 PM > Was estrogen (estradiol) included in the test? It's all about > balance. A man's body needs to have more test. than estrogen, > and looking at testosterone without the other hormones is only > looking at part of the picture. Most endos seem to forget this > and don't look at estrogen in men because it's not supposed to > be an issue............................ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 I get all of these anyway! (No liver probs. as far as I know) Steph ----- Original Message ----- From: " Stanley Mark " Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 10:42 PM > > Also, it can cause vision disturbances....floaters, tracers, > shooting stars, etc. It can also make you moody and give you > hot flashes (I think those sides are more apparent with women). > Also, possibly water retention................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Justus, I would just tell you that when you go back arm yourself with a simple to understand bit of info that a reading of T levels of 400 means next to nothing if all he's measuring is total T. Free T, bound T, SHBG etc all should be tested for the numbers to mean anything. Heck, even us dumb old non-medical-professional people understand that!!!! ;-) I believe the following info was posted a while back by Steph . . . Sent to me by Dr. JH Light, Endocrinologist Testosterone levels: Most of the testosterone produced by the testes and pituitary gland is 'bound' to certain proteins in our blood and is not readily available as 'free' testosterone. Certain conditions (e.g. endocrine problems) or aging further reduces the levels of free Testosterone available in our blood. This reduction in testosterone levels can be responsible (amongst other things) for loss of interest in sex, erection problems, depression, fatigue, and even 'hot flushes'. It is important to recognize that both men and women must have a specific ratio of testosterone to oestrogen. Young men may have a ratio of testosterone to oestrogen of 50:1. The ratio drops to 20:1 or even as low as 8:1 with normal aging. When oestrogen levels in a man increase, the effects of testosterone are negated. While oestrogens in women protect them from heart disease and osteoporosis, the effects are the opposite for men. Too much oestrogen will actually increase the risk of heart attacks in men. A man may have a normal testosterone level, but with an increased oestrogen level, the effects of his testosterone are compromised. As stated above, Testosterone can be either 'free' or 'bound' to a protein within the blood. Bound testosterone is not available for use. Most (around 60-70%) of a man's testosterone is bound to a protein known as the 'sex hormone-binding globulin' (SHBG). The amounts of SHBG within the blood increase with age. The SHBG traps much of the circulating bioavailable testosterone, making it unavailable to exert its effects on the body. Therefore, it is the bioavailable testosterone that promotes strength in the muscles and maintains or increases muscle mass, libido and sexual performance. It also improves quality of sleep, increases mental and physical energy, and also promotes improvements in mood and the sense of well-being. Testosterone also plays a role in synthesising proteins. It affects many metabolic activities, such as the production of blood cells in the bone marrow, formation of bone, lipid (fat) and carbohydrate metabolism and growth of the prostate gland. Low level of testosterone is known as 'hypotestosteronaemia'. Another 30-40% of the total testosterone is more loosely bound to another protein, called albumen. Testosterone bound to albumen is also inactive, so free or bioavailable testosterone probably accounts for only 1-2 per cent of the total. Measurement of total testosterone is therefore a poor measure of active testosterone. T levels can be expressed as SERUM levels or FREE levels. Free testosterone levels are expensive to measure and are not widely available. A " Free Androgen Index " (FAI = total testosterone/SHBG x100) is an alternative measure of androgen state that is not as reliable as free testosterone, but is better than relying solely on total testosterone. The normal range for testosterone levels in men quoted in laboratories in the UK usually refers to SERUM levels as being in the order of 8.71-36.47 nmol/L (nanomole/litre .... The number of moles in a sample equals its weight in grams divided by its molecular weight). There is slight variation around this range depending on method (i.e.'assay type') used by the laboratories. Moreover, the range quoted by laboratories is for all adult men and often does not take into consideration normal ranges for different age groups. [Levels quoted by North American researchers refer to ng/dl (nanograms per decilitre). For males, low level serum-testosterone range is defined as between around 300 to 400 ng/dl (10.4 nmol/L to 13.9 nmol/L) and average serum-testosterone level range of 550-950 ng/dl]. In both Europe and North America however, some confusion exists (even amongst the medical profession!) between what exactly has been measured. As an illustration of this, *Total* testosterone, which is all that is usually measured in men complaining of symptoms associated with low testosterone, was shown to be low in only 13% of cases. However, more detailed blood analyses showed that the *Free Active Testosterone* (FAT) obtained by dividing total plasma testosterone level by that of the important carrier protein, Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), was decreased in 74% of cases, mainly because of high levels of the SHBG. Whatever the criteria however, Low readings ought to be confirmed by a repeat test. So confused!!! > Hello all. This journey has been terribly frustrating. I finally got > referred to an Endo. But he was an ass and blew off my questions. He > took me off androgel for six weeks to find out if I was secondary or > primary. My test results came back very confusing. I checked out > normal in everything! My T levels were at 400. Before treatment I was > 170 and with shots I only reached 300ish. I still feel like crap most > of the time - I think it was just a fluke that my levels were that > high so I'm returning in another 6 weeks for further testing. Could I > have recovered? WTF?!?! > > Since my other brain chemical tests returned as normal, that must > mean that the hypogonadism must be primary, if indeed I have it at > all. Right? If I still do have hypogonadism, then that means that my > testis are still capable of functioning. And Androgel would put a > stop to that eventually. Is it possible to treat partially > functioning testis with HCG. It seems that it would be better to > stimulate them to work rather than shutting them the rest of the way > off. > > I know I've rambled a lot, but if someone could please help me. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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