Re: Excessive Testosterone Can Lower HDL

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I understand your source of the information but there are other

sources that don't agree.

When I started TRT, I was on one of the Mevacor or similar drugs in

1992 and have been on those different meds since the powder

Cholostyramien after my by-pass in 1982. I did not have any

significant change in my level of HDL or LDL when I got my yearly

lipid profile.

There are also other opinions regarding bone loss. Some sources say it

strengthens the bones. I think Dr. Shippen's book, " The Testosterone

Syndrome " encourages TRT for better physical health. T is used many

places in the body.

Yes there are forms of cancer that can be fed and grow very fast when

TRT is being used. PSA tests and prostate checks are essential to

avoid that risk.

Some cancers of the prostate do not feed on T and TRT can be approved

by the doctor for the patient following surgery.

Diabetes may be cured with TRT and thyroid function may improve.

I am currently on 30mg/day of lipitor and the doctor is satisfied with

my numbers.

ernestnolan

> Doctors are reluctant to prescribe hormone supplements because of

the recognized hazards of excess testosterone. One way we treat

prostate cancer is to reduce testosterone levels to zero, which slows

the cancer's growth. Therefore, it's logical to think that excess

testosterone may speed growth if prostate cancer is present.

Testosterone has also been associated with osteoporosis (weakened,

brittle bones), and it lowers HDL cholesterol, the good cholesterol

that helps protect us from atherosclerosis.

>

> With biweekly injections of testosterone--the most common delivery

method--the drop is HDL cholesterol is usually less than 10 percent.

Oral testosterone, on the other hand, should be avoided--not only for

its dramatic effect on HDL cholesterol but also because it causes

liver problems.

>

> This is a copy and paste from the link below.

> http://www.malehealthcenter.com/Columns/testost.html

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Doctors are reluctant to prescribe hormone supplements because...

...they are woefully ignorant on the topic.

> ...of the recognized hazards of excess

> testosterone.

The " hazards " of low T are far worse!!!!!!!

> One way we treat prostate

> cancer is to reduce testosterone levels to

> zero, which slows the cancer's growth.

And another way to " treat " prostate cancer is to do nothing. Which is

what more and more doctors are doing every day.

> Therefore, it's logical to think that excess

> testosterone may speed growth if prostate cancer is present.

The latest research indicates that low T is a primary CAUSE of prostate

cancer.

> Testosterone has also been associated with

> osteoporosis (weakened, brittle bones)...

Yes, LOW T is associated with oesteoporosis. In fact, when I was

diagnosed with hypogonadidsm, I asked my urologist if I could hold off

for a while, he said I could hold off for 3 months or so but after that

one of the major risks of low T is OSTEOPOROSIS.

> ...and it lowers HDL cholesterol, the good cholesterol

> that helps protect us from atherosclerosis.

Only at supraphisiological dosages. At replacement dosages, TRT vastly

improves one's cardiovascular profile.

> This is a copy and paste from the link below.

> http://www.malehealthcenter.com/Columns/testost.html

Don't waste your time on this ill-researched crap. Do your own

research. It's not that hard to do.

[Guest guest]

Read this on prostate cancer.

http://www.prostatepointers.org/prostate/leibowitz/TEST-REV2.html

Phil

Z <davidzxxx2004@...> wrote:

> Doctors are reluctant to prescribe hormone supplements because...

...they are woefully ignorant on the topic.

> ...of the recognized hazards of excess

> testosterone.

The " hazards " of low T are far worse!!!!!!!

> One way we treat prostate

> cancer is to reduce testosterone levels to

> zero, which slows the cancer's growth.

And another way to " treat " prostate cancer is to do nothing. Which is

what more and more doctors are doing every day.

> Therefore, it's logical to think that excess

> testosterone may speed growth if prostate cancer is present.

The latest research indicates that low T is a primary CAUSE of prostate

cancer.

> Testosterone has also been associated with

> osteoporosis (weakened, brittle bones)...

Yes, LOW T is associated with oesteoporosis. In fact, when I was

diagnosed with hypogonadidsm, I asked my urologist if I could hold off

for a while, he said I could hold off for 3 months or so but after that

one of the major risks of low T is OSTEOPOROSIS.

> ...and it lowers HDL cholesterol, the good cholesterol

> that helps protect us from atherosclerosis.

Only at supraphisiological dosages. At replacement dosages, TRT vastly

improves one's cardiovascular profile.

> This is a copy and paste from the link below.

> http://www.malehealthcenter.com/Columns/testost.html

Don't waste your time on this ill-researched crap. Do your own

research. It's not that hard to do.

[Guest guest]

Overdosage with testosterone lowers the 'good' high-density lipoprotein (HDL)

cholesterol. However, in correct doses, testosterone has no relevant effect on

lipid patterns.

Kissie

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:56:08 -0500, you wrote:

>Testosterone has also been associated with osteoporosis (weakened, brittle

bones),

No - low testosterone is associated with osteoporosis. Take it from

someone who cracked 8 ribs on his was to getting his diagnosis.

- - - -

Just another albino black sheep

[Guest guest]

Dr. Ken Goldberg: " Nevertheless, I'm not ready to declare routine testosterone

supplementation the solution to veropuase (male menopause). "

Perhaps he'll be ready when he learns how to spell it. He gets a little closer

when he later spells it " veropause " , but he's not there yet.

> Doctors are reluctant to prescribe hormone supplements because of the

recognized hazards of excess testosterone. One way we treat prostate cancer

is to reduce testosterone levels to zero, which slows the cancer's growth.

Therefore, it's logical to think that excess testosterone may speed growth if

prostate cancer is present. Testosterone has also been associated with

osteoporosis (weakened, brittle bones), and it lowers HDL cholesterol, the

good cholesterol that helps protect us from atherosclerosis.

>

> With biweekly injections of testosterone--the most common delivery

method--the drop is HDL cholesterol is usually less than 10 percent. Oral

testosterone, on the other hand, should be avoided--not only for its dramatic

effect on HDL cholesterol but also because it causes liver problems.

>

> This is a copy and paste from the link below.

> http://www.malehealthcenter.com/Columns/testost.html

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >Testosterone has also been associated with osteoporosis (weakened,

>brittle bones),

>

>No - low testosterone is associated with osteoporosis. Take it from

>someone who cracked 8 ribs on his was to getting his diagnosis.

>

>- - - -

Indeed, and take it also from someone who is 54, keeps his T at the highest

level and whose bone density scan is quote " consistent with a young adult "

as stated in the report. Keeping your T up is essential to bone density.

When men take Lupron, a drug which chemically stops the production of T, as

part of prostate cancer treatment, they lose a decade of bone density in the

following two years - just as when women go through meno. As I state here

from time to time (because I believe it firmly) men who have low T but stop

treatment simply because they do not get the sexual or energy effects that

they want are going to run into a world of deterioration down the road,

including muscle mass and cognition. It is important to adjust your T level

based on how you feel but it is important to also keep your T up into the

upper third of the range regardless of how you feel. This is my opinion of

course but I only got there by looking at the data. To each his own though.

If you are in your 30's or 40's and dont think you will ever be 60 then you

are all set. When you are 60 you will wish that you had preserved the last

two to three decades of bone loss and then it gets worse from there. Dont

let the drug ads on TV fool you. Osteoporosis cannot be reversed and a

couple inches of height loss does not come back and neither do the collapsed

vertebrae and general collapse of the frame. The available drugs can

increase the density of whats left by just a small percentage - that is for

those who can hold them down without vomiting. Many people cannot take

Fosamax for example due to the nausea. If you know that you have low T and

you are not treating it then that is where you are headed unless you want to

try to beat the odds.

Winter

[Guest guest]

The following is a quote from the paper, " MY CURRENT BEST THOUGHTS ON

HOW TO ADMINISTER TRT FOR MEN " by Crisler, DO (

http://www.growyoungandslim.com/articles/testosterone5404johncrislertrt.doc

). The section quoted is taken from the section discussing

appropriate lab assays for TRT.

-Begin Quote-------

Lipid Panel

This is drawn to provide your bragging rights when you drop the CHOL

30 points, thanks to your own good administration of TRT. You should

expect to see lowered TRIG and LDL's, too. Be advised, this will not

happen if you choose to elevate their androgens above the top of

" normal " range, i.e. providing what amounts to an anabolic steroid

cycle. Of course, this would no longer constitute TRT, as the

practitioner would then be choosing to damage the health and

well-being of the patient.

HDL does frequently drop a bit, but that is believed to be due to

increased REVERSE cholesterol transport; so much of the plaque is,

after being scavenged from the lining of the CV system by HDL, now

being chewed up by the liver. Androgens also elevate hepatic lipase,

and this may have an effect. The important thing to keep in mind is

that TRT inhibits foam cell formation.

-End Quote---------

I would like to emphasize that serum testosterone levels do not have

linear effects. This is true of so many things in nature and in

particular, the human body.

--mranak

> Doctors are reluctant to prescribe hormone supplements because of

the recognized hazards of excess testosterone. One way we treat

prostate cancer is to reduce testosterone levels to zero, which slows

the cancer's growth. Therefore, it's logical to think that excess

testosterone may speed growth if prostate cancer is present.

Testosterone has also been associated with osteoporosis (weakened,

brittle bones), and it lowers HDL cholesterol, the good cholesterol

that helps protect us from atherosclerosis.

>

> With biweekly injections of testosterone--the most common delivery

method--the drop is HDL cholesterol is usually less than 10 percent.

Oral testosterone, on the other hand, should be avoided--not only for

its dramatic effect on HDL cholesterol but also because it causes

liver problems.

>

> This is a copy and paste from the link below.

> http://www.malehealthcenter.com/Columns/testost.html

[Guest guest]

We responded the way we did because of the statement, " Doctors are

reluctant to prescribe hormone supplements because of the recognized

hazards of excess testosterone. " That statement is overloaded. For

example, the uninformed reader could easily conclude that any TRT is

" excessive " if the patient already falls within the so-called 'normal'

range for testosterone.

This article does not help to alleviate misconceptions of proper HRT.

Many of the folks here are very sensitive to that, and with good reason.

I believe that the information that I provided was more clear and

comprehensive than the original article, yet it did so in fewer words.

So, I posted that information, along with a few comments to emphasize

my point.

Sorry if it seems like we are coming at your with knives and guns

drawn. It must be all the 'excessive' testosterone in this forum!

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself). But seriously, we are simply trying

to exchange information for the better.

--mranak

> > Doctors are reluctant to prescribe hormone supplements because of

> the recognized hazards of excess testosterone. One way we treat

> prostate cancer is to reduce testosterone levels to zero, which

slows

> the cancer's growth. Therefore, it's logical to think that excess

> testosterone may speed growth if prostate cancer is present.

> Testosterone has also been associated with osteoporosis (weakened,

> brittle bones), and it lowers HDL cholesterol, the good cholesterol

> that helps protect us from atherosclerosis.

> >

> > With biweekly injections of testosterone--the most common delivery

> method--the drop is HDL cholesterol is usually less than 10 percent.

> Oral testosterone, on the other hand, should be avoided--not

only for

> its dramatic effect on HDL cholesterol but also because it causes

> liver problems.

> >

> > This is a copy and paste from the link below.

> > http://www.malehealthcenter.com/Columns/testost.html

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kissie,

I have no problem with your statements.

I have a problem with Dr. Goldberg's article. I think it's unclear, sloppy and

presents statements that are either incorrect or can easily be misinterpreted.

If a member of this group made some of those statements, others would

correct him. Like: " Normal levels are considered to be anywhere between 300

and 1,000 micrograms per deciliter, "

He asks an intriguing question: " But what if it's (T level) only a little low? " .

He

doesn't really answer that. That's a hot topic with this group.

When he says " With biweekly injections of testosterone--the most common

delivery method... " does he mean biweekly injections are excessive? At what

dose per injection?

He says: " If your testosterone level is very low, and there is no correctable

cause, supplementation is likely to be helpful. " , even though " what it does to

the length of that (person's) life still isn't clear. " To me that seems like a

grudging concession that treatment of hypogonadism is okay. If Dr. Goldberg

isn't against properly administered TRT, there's one thing he does make clear:

he isn't for it.

I THINK what he's trying to say is that older men with moderately low

testosterone should think twice before jumping into TRT. If so, that's good

advice.

The article definitely reads like an attack on TRT in general.

Bruce

> I think you guys are missing the point of my statement. I did not make the

statement that properly administered TRT was harmful

> in lowering your HDL. Yet everyone who has read the post has defended

TRT therapy. My statement was that Overdosing on Testosterone lowers HDL

and it does. Why are you all defending

> properly administered TRT when it was never attacked.

> Kissie

---

[Guest guest]

Hi,

It would be helpful for readers if you could define what dosages you

feel meet those requirements.

ernestnolan

> Overdosage with testosterone lowers the 'good' high-density

lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol. However, in correct doses, testosterone

has no relevant effect on lipid patterns.

> Kissie

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I think numbers would help a lot to calrify, but thanks for getting

back to us who have been jumping up and down.

We try to keep from making strong comments to each other as a courtesy

and I appreciate that.

ernestnolan

> > Doctors are reluctant to prescribe hormone supplements because of

> the recognized hazards of excess testosterone. One way we treat

> prostate cancer is to reduce testosterone levels to zero, which

slows

> the cancer's growth. Therefore, it's logical to think that excess

> testosterone may speed growth if prostate cancer is present.

> Testosterone has also been associated with osteoporosis (weakened,

> brittle bones), and it lowers HDL cholesterol, the good cholesterol

> that helps protect us from atherosclerosis.

> >

> > With biweekly injections of testosterone--the most common delivery

> method--the drop is HDL cholesterol is usually less than 10 percent.

> Oral testosterone, on the other hand, should be avoided--not

only for

> its dramatic effect on HDL cholesterol but also because it causes

> liver problems.

> >

> > This is a copy and paste from the link below.

> > http://www.malehealthcenter.com/Columns/testost.html

>

>

>

>

>