Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 You are taking too much T shots in addition to the HCG. The real problem you have is most likely the estradiol at this point. In the end, you should be able to get away with significantly lower dose of exogenous t, perhaps even eliminating it alltogether in favor of the HCG. Armyguy > My dose was upped to 300mg from 200mg and after the second round of shots I > feel much better. Will be back to normal if we can get estrogen under control. > Also on 500iu HCG 3X week. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Do you know the brand of test that is being injected, is it compounded or is it upjohn, or some other brand, what does the bottle say, is it 200mg/ml or some other number? That seems like alot of HCG and test at the same time, glad you are feeling better, at that dose you should be well past the top of the range. Do you have any water retention, like in the ankles? Any side effects that you can detect? It is t-cyp, right? And that is 300mg a week? Some people need to frontload and then need less as time goes by. Will be interesting to see how you do at that dose for awhile. > My dose was upped to 300mg from 200mg and after the second round of shots I > feel much better. Will be back to normal if we can get estrogen under control. > Also on 500iu HCG 3X week. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 It's 300mg every two weeks. I use the upjohn cypionate 200mg/ml. I went to 300mg about 1 month ago. I gave my last T shot about five days ago. I just started to feel it about two days ago. The difference is simply staggering. I have been on TRT for three months. Finally, it is working. As for side affects, no water in the ankle. But my left buttocks hurts as does my left calf. Not sure what that is about. Any ideas? In a message dated 5/25/2004 11:03:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pohare@... writes: Do you know the brand of test that is being injected, is it compounded or is it upjohn, or some other brand, what does the bottle say, is it 200mg/ml or some other number? That seems like alot of HCG and test at the same time, glad you are feeling better, at that dose you should be well past the top of the range. Do you have any water retention, like in the ankles? Any side effects that you can detect? It is t-cyp, right? And that is 300mg a week? Some people need to frontload and then need less as time goes by. Will be interesting to see how you do at that dose for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 I was looking into the pellets. My endo has been pretty good. We will see what she is going to do about estrogen management. Last appointment she said she doesn't test for E. Like Armyguy has said, though, I might be able to switch solely to the HCG. I just wanted to share a post regarding upping the T dose to 300mg from 200mg. It made a huge difference. In a message dated 5/25/2004 12:50:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, emiles@... writes: Hi, The shots shock the body and its regulation systems causing the conversion of T to E. Have you considered pellets which require no daily, weekly involvment and no worry about getting anything on the family. Every 4 months you go back to the doctor for new pellets to be installed under the skin. Pellets usually do not cause any conversion to E because the dissolving hormone pellet is very constant. It is tough to find a doctor that provides pellet therapy but you could ask you doctor just to give him a jolt that you know something about alternatives that are actually better for the patient and he is unwilling to provide it. Cost is about the same. ernestnolan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 Hi, The shots shock the body and its regulation systems causing the conversion of T to E. Have you considered pellets which require no daily, weekly involvment and no worry about getting anything on the family. Every 4 months you go back to the doctor for new pellets to be installed under the skin. Pellets usually do not cause any conversion to E because the dissolving hormone pellet is very constant. It is tough to find a doctor that provides pellet therapy but you could ask you doctor just to give him a jolt that you know something about alternatives that are actually better for the patient and he is unwilling to provide it. Cost is about the same. ernestnolan > My dose was upped to 300mg from 200mg and after the second round of shots I > feel much better. Will be back to normal if we can get estrogen under control. > Also on 500iu HCG 3X week. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 , Is it possible injection was close to the sciatic nerve? Bruce > As for side affects, no water in the ankle. But my left buttocks hurts as > does my left calf. Not sure what that is about. Any ideas? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2004 Report Share Posted May 25, 2004 I am on a compounded t-cyp ($60 10ml 200mg/ml), but will switch over to the upjohn ($180 10ml 200mg/ml) for a bottle, to see how it is. The effect when the blood levels get stable is real nice. If 300mg / 2 weeks works for you, that's great. Everyone will suggest 150mg every week, and in fact i do 125mg every 5 days in the thigh and love it. It has taken around 5 months of injections, but i am started to feel normal and stable. And for some odd reason my groceries seem to be bigger on TRT, no HCG at all. The pain in the butt, is that were you get shot? As for the calf, i hope it is just muscle, but if it is real deep, like to to bone, i would think blood clot. (not to scare you) If you work it and it feels like muscle, who knows, it took awhile for my muscles to come back and now i can pop out 30 push-ups anytime without a strain or heavy breathing, last year it was a complete struggle to do 10. > It's 300mg every two weeks. I use the upjohn cypionate 200mg/ml. I went to > 300mg about 1 month ago. I gave my last T shot about five days ago. I just > started to feel it about two days ago. The difference is simply staggering. I have > been on TRT for three months. Finally, it is working. > > As for side affects, no water in the ankle. But my left buttocks hurts as > does my left calf. Not sure what that is about. Any ideas? > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2004 11:03:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > pohare@p... writes: > Do you know the brand of test that is being injected, is it compounded or is > it upjohn, or > some other brand, what does the bottle say, is it 200mg/ml or some other > number? That seems like alot of HCG and test at the same time, glad you are > feeling better, at that dose you should be well past the top of the range. Do you > have any water retention, like in the ankles? Any side effects that you can > detect? It is t-cyp, right? And that is 300mg a week? Some people need to > frontload and then need less as time goes by. Will be interesting to see how you do at > that dose for awhile. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Phil, I hear ya. But let me ask you something. Even when I was taking 200mg shots. I didn't really notice a huge difference. Now with the 300mg shot, I feel great a week after taking it. I am worried that if I switch to 100mg or even 150mg every week, that I won't get enough of a boost. What do you think? In a message dated 5/25/2004 4:23:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pmgamer18@... writes: you are better off taking your shots every week doing shots this way you are most likely to end up with high E2 levels. If this happens then you will be worst off. Try 100 mg every week Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Bruce, I don't know where that nerve is. I ice my butt and then my girlfriend gives me the shot. Last time she went 1.5 " deep and there was a tiny drop of blood on the tip. It was in my left buttocks, upper left quadrant. Week before was opposite buttocks, and upper right quadrant. Would appreciate any elaboration. Thanks, In a message dated 5/25/2004 5:33:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bruceharvey@... writes: , Is it possible injection was close to the sciatic nerve? Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 In a message dated 5/25/2004 6:01:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mfb178@... writes: You should be able to get Upjohn T-Cyp for around $110 for 200mg/10cc. Try Expect discount or the wholesale clubs. Pharmacies charge you more for the drugs than they do if insurance pays for them so maybe you can work something out with them, I have a bottle of T that came with a price tag on it from CVS, $111 www.allthingsmale.com has test for $100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 , I have been on this for several months. With any dose lower than 300mg the boost I got was minimal (although a world of difference from no shot). With 300mg I feel healthy. Does 150mg a week give the same feeling as 300mg every 12 days? In a message dated 5/25/2004 5:55:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pohare@... writes: am on a compounded t-cyp ($60 10ml 200mg/ml), but will switch over to the upjohn ($180 10ml 200mg/ml) for a bottle, to see how it is. The effect when the blood levels get stable is real nice. If 300mg / 2 weeks works for you, that's great. Everyone will suggest 150mg every week, and in fact i do 125mg every 5 days in the thigh and love it. It has taken around 5 months of injections, but i am started to feel normal and stable. And for some odd reason my groceries seem to be bigger on TRT, no HCG at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Thanks so much, Bruce. I think I will make a drawing and mark the injection spots. In a message dated 5/26/2004 10:58:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bruceharvey@... writes: Hi , My doctor drew a picture of the proper site on my butt. My wife did a sketch for future reference, but it's too rough to pass on. I finally found a picture of the proper intramuscular sites at: http://www2.mc.duke.edu/depts/obgyn/ivf/injectio.htm#Intramusc ular%20injections It's the 2nd picture, the first is only for SubQ. The tiny drop of blood suggests she might have hit a blood vessal. Tips for avoiding that are included in the above site. Best, Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 We don't aspirate the needle once its in. I guess it'd be a good idea to start. We are very clean though with the injections. On our very first injection we didn't clean my butt with an alcohol swab and it got infected. With regards to needle length. We were using 1 " 25 gauge but I wasn't sure if I was getting any test. So we switched to 1.5 " 22 gauge and then I felt better. I ice for 10 minutes prior to the injection so no pain either way. I wonder if I have a fat ass and that's why the 1 " needle didn't work? Doesn't feel fat. In a message dated 5/26/2004 12:03:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pohare@... writes: Does she aspirate, does she pull back on the plunger before she injects and checks for blood? It is a slight pull back, not hard, you should get a tug and nothing or sometimes a little bubble of air or fluid, if she pulls back blood then just pull out, replace the needle and move over a 1/4 inch. If you have a small butt 1 " 25 guage should be fine. If she moves the needle around or injects fast, that can cause some discomfort. Be sure to wash hands and wipe everything with the alcohol swab, even the bottle and the top of the bottle before you pull the oil. Hope you pull with one needle and switch to a new needle to inject. The spot to inject is to draw a line over from the top of the butt crack over to the middle of the far right or left quadrant and then up a inch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Hi , My doctor drew a picture of the proper site on my butt. My wife did a sketch for future reference, but it's too rough to pass on. I finally found a picture of the proper intramuscular sites at: http://www2.mc.duke.edu/depts/obgyn/ivf/injectio.htm#Intramusc ular%20injections It's the 2nd picture, the first is only for SubQ. The tiny drop of blood suggests she might have hit a blood vessal. Tips for avoiding that are included in the above site. Best, Bruce > Bruce, > > I don't know where that nerve is. I ice my butt and then my girlfriend gives > me the shot. Last time she went 1.5 " deep and there was a tiny drop of blood > on the tip. It was in my left buttocks, upper left quadrant. Week before was > opposite buttocks, and upper right quadrant. > > Would appreciate any elaboration. > > Thanks, > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2004 5:33:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > bruceharvey@d... writes: > , > > Is it possible injection was close to the sciatic nerve? > > Bruce > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 It would seem that to get 300mg into you every 12 days, any way of doing it would seem right. But maybe you respond better to 300mg in one dose then 150mg every 6 days. It is something to test out when you feel stable on the 300mg/12day. > , > > I have been on this for several months. With any dose lower than 300mg the > boost I got was minimal (although a world of difference from no shot). With > 300mg I feel healthy. Does 150mg a week give the same feeling as 300mg every 12 > days? > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2004 5:55:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > pohare@p... writes: > am on a compounded t-cyp ($60 10ml 200mg/ml), but will switch over to the > upjohn > ($180 10ml 200mg/ml) for a bottle, to see how it is. The effect when the > blood levels get > stable is real nice. If 300mg / 2 weeks works for you, that's great. Everyone > will suggest > 150mg every week, and in fact i do 125mg every 5 days in the thigh and love > it. It has > taken around 5 months of injections, but i am started to feel normal and > stable. And for > some odd reason my groceries seem to be bigger on TRT, no HCG at all. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Does she aspirate, does she pull back on the plunger before she injects and checks for blood? It is a slight pull back, not hard, you should get a tug and nothing or sometimes a little bubble of air or fluid, if she pulls back blood then just pull out, replace the needle and move over a 1/4 inch. If you have a small butt 1 " 25 guage should be fine. If she moves the needle around or injects fast, that can cause some discomfort. Be sure to wash hands and wipe everything with the alcohol swab, even the bottle and the top of the bottle before you pull the oil. Hope you pull with one needle and switch to a new needle to inject. The spot to inject is to draw a line over from the top of the butt crack over to the middle of the far right or left quadrant and then up a inch. > Bruce, > > I don't know where that nerve is. I ice my butt and then my girlfriend gives > me the shot. Last time she went 1.5 " deep and there was a tiny drop of blood > on the tip. It was in my left buttocks, upper left quadrant. Week before was > opposite buttocks, and upper right quadrant. > > Would appreciate any elaboration. > > Thanks, > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2004 5:33:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > bruceharvey@d... writes: > , > > Is it possible injection was close to the sciatic nerve? > > Bruce > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 The t-depot needs to be in the deep muscle where there is a good blood supply so it gets transported out. For some, doing sub-q test injections even work. That 22 gauge is why your ass hurts..... freaking hose... 1.5 " 25 guage will be fine, just will inject slower which is good. I now do all my own shots in the thigh 1 " 25 guage, passed through a vein last week, had a real dark pool of blood flow out after injection, it stopped in a few seconds. Supposed to inject today but feel too good to bother. You are getting all the test injected, don't think it goes to waste, just the speed that it gets absorbed into the blood. > We don't aspirate the needle once its in. I guess it'd be a good idea to > start. We are very clean though with the injections. On our very first injection > we didn't clean my butt with an alcohol swab and it got infected. > > With regards to needle length. We were using 1 " 25 gauge but I wasn't sure if > I was getting any test. So we switched to 1.5 " 22 gauge and then I felt > better. I ice for 10 minutes prior to the injection so no pain either way. I wonder > if I have a fat ass and that's why the 1 " needle didn't work? Doesn't feel > fat. > > > > > In a message dated 5/26/2004 12:03:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > pohare@p... writes: > Does she aspirate, does she pull back on the plunger before she injects and > checks for > blood? It is a slight pull back, not hard, you should get a tug and nothing > or sometimes a > little bubble of air or fluid, if she pulls back blood then just pull out, > replace the needle > and move over a 1/4 inch. If you have a small butt 1 " 25 guage should be > fine. If she > moves the needle around or injects fast, that can cause some discomfort. Be > sure to wash > hands and wipe everything with the alcohol swab, even the bottle and the top > of the bottle > before you pull the oil. Hope you pull with one needle and switch to a new > needle to inject. > The spot to inject is to draw a line over from the top of the butt crack over > to the middle > of the far right or left quadrant and then up a inch. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Consider injecting small amounts using 27 guage 1/2 inch insulin needle into your stomach fat. This is WAY easier to do (for me anyway), and has a great effect. Armyguy > > Bruce, > > > > I don't know where that nerve is. I ice my butt and then my > girlfriend gives > > me the shot. Last time she went 1.5 " deep and there was a tiny > drop of blood > > on the tip. It was in my left buttocks, upper left quadrant. Week > before was > > opposite buttocks, and upper right quadrant. > > > > Would appreciate any elaboration. > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/25/2004 5:33:10 PM Eastern Daylight > Time, > > bruceharvey@d... writes: > > , > > > > Is it possible injection was close to the sciatic nerve? > > > > Bruce > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 Hi, A 25 guage needle sounds small to me. It's awfully hard to draw T out of the vial if it's in a sesame oil base. My nurse said 18-1/2 was preferred. I ended up using a 21 guage needle, 1-1/2'' long (I have sufficient meat back there). I've since moved from shots to pellets. Bruce If you have a small butt 1 " 25 guage should be fine. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 On Wed, 26 May 2004 19:17:37 -0000, you wrote: >Hi, > >A 25 guage needle sounds small to me. It's awfully hard to draw >T out of the vial if it's in a sesame oil base. My nurse said 18-1/2 >was preferred. I ended up using a 21 guage needle, 1-1/2'' long >(I have sufficient meat back there). > >I've since moved from shots to pellets. texts suggest drawing from the bottle with an 18, injecting with 21, 22 or 23. _______ Vote Bush/Voldemort 2004! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2004 Report Share Posted May 26, 2004 You have to change needles, as in, draw the T with an 18 guage needle (HUGE), then change the needle to a 25 guage needle (if injecting in the glutius maximus and a 27 guage if injecting in stomach fat sub q. Changing the needle is very easy to do and save's allot of pain's in the ass (literally) Armyguy > If you have a small butt 1 " 25 guage should be fine. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2004 Report Share Posted May 27, 2004 I currently draw with a 18G 1 " then switch to a 23G 1 " I inject into my thigh muscle all 1 " in. No pain at all have been doing this for 3 weeks and I believe I am starting to feel better. I am on a search for someone to do pellets. I have found a doc to do pellets, but he does not take Ins. He charges about $15/pellet and $160 for the procedure. He normally adds new pellets every 2-3 months. Nickso > > If you have a small butt 1 " 25 guage should be fine. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2004 Report Share Posted May 27, 2004 Nickso, Maybe you could pay for it and then get reimbursed by your insurance? Worth a shot, anyway. Mark > I am on a search for someone to do pellets. I have found a doc to do > pellets, but he does not take Ins. > He charges about $15/pellet and $160 for the procedure. > He normally adds new pellets every 2-3 months. > > Nickso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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