Re: Another Dr's opinion....

March 16, 2005

Hi Mike I hate to say this but yes stress lowered my T levels big time I would

go down from 1000 to 550 from stress but the kind of stress was from being sick

like a bad baldder infection or the flue. My Dr. would say the stress of the

infection eat up you T meds. Yet the same thing happen when my mother died and

my wife left me some yrs. ago.

Phil

Mike Sullivan <the.mick@...> wrote:

Hello,

I just got back from seeing another Endocrinologist. He examined me

and saw all my blood work and the report on the small tumor they

found on my pituitary gland and you know what he said? You have

hypogonadism but it is the result of something else going on in your

body, not a defect with your testicles or your pituitary. He

recanted a study that was done on Marine recruits at he thinks camp

LeJeune that were going through basic training. The recruits

Testosterone levels were checked when they entered boot camp (18=20

year olds) and then on their last day of boot camp. Do you know what

they found? the average recruit's testosterone level was

significantly higher on the last day then when they entered. The

reason? Stress of what was going to happen at boot camp.When the

stress was over (last days) their levels went up. I asked him what

this had to do with me and why he thinks my hypogonadism is the

result of something else wrong in my body because after 3 months of

TRT my testicles showed no signs of atrophy and when my testosterone

levels were at 210 my beard and body were unaffected. At this time I

also informed the Endo that 2 days prior I had a sleep study done

and it was determined I had sleep apnea. He then stated that with

the sleep apnea and a stressful job situation were the root of my

problem and that what was causing my hypogonism. Resolve the 2 and

my levels should climb back up naturally. He suggested discontinuing

the TRT after talking to my orig ENDO and GP. Has anybody else heard

about something like this? I did read an article of a study that was

done at a hospital in Israel that supported the theory but wanted to

reach out to the rest of you for advise. I listed below my last post

which had my blood work results as of 3/9/05.

Thanks

Mike

I need some help with understanding what is going on with my

> bloodwork. Here are the results from my 3 blood tests.

>

> 12/6/04 Results Range

>

> Total T 210 241-827

>

> On January 27 - I visited an Endocrinologist who took the

> > following

> > > blood test. Endo was not particularly happy I had started

TRT

> > > without a more comprehensive blood work.

> > >

> > > Results Range

> > > HCG, QL, Serum Negative Negtive

> > > FSH 1.7 1.4 - 18.1 mIU/mL

> > > LH 3.6 1.5 - 9.3

> > > Prolactin 6.7 2.0 - 18.0 ng/mL

> > > Estradiol <32 <52 pg/mL

> > > Total Testosterone 278 241 - 827 ng/dl

>

> On 3/1/04

> My Gp drew blood and did a CBC test with everything in range.

A

> Hepatic function panel with everything range except my ALT

which was

> for the first time slightly elevated over the high range by 3

points

>

> Results Range

> Total T 654 241-827

>

> Free T 42.5 6.8-21.5

>

> I did not have a E2 level test and I still do not feelthat much

> better with my T levels almost tripling. My Endo switched me

from 5

> mg of AG to 10mg which would account for my big elevation

between my

> last 2 tests. But what does the high levels of free T mean? Also

as

> I posted last week my Endo found a small tumor on my

pitutitary

> gland but does not think it is the reason for my original low T.

>

> Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated

>

> Thanks Mike

March 16, 2005

Hi,

I don't know about you but I think you got ripped off.

This is not the scientific approach using hormone levels and also the

messenger hormones. It is either a low messenger hormone or it isn't,

bingo. The testicles need to be told to pump testosterone and don't if

no message hormone is being sent.

When that messenger hormone is high and the T level low, your

testicles are suffering a lack of performance or have become

insenstive to the messenger hormone.

IMHO stress is on everybodies mind that is working for a living with

the opportunity to loose your job at the drop of a hat these days. No

one gets away from the struggles. We all live with it for decades and

it does wear out a body and its vital organs gradually.

My endocrinologist has been treating andropause and other hormone

abnormalities in both men and women for decades. He is also an OB/GYN

who treats couples for fertility problems. His mentor Dr. Greenblatt,

now deceased, pioneered hormone therapy in the 50's. Check them out on

GOOGLE.

Dr. R. Don Gambrell, Augusta, GA will answer questions and even advise

doctors when asked about tough cases.

His web site is:

http://www.members.aol.com/gambr999/

ernestnolan

>

> Hello,

>

> I just got back from seeing another Endocrinologist. He examined me

> and saw all my blood work and the report on the small tumor they

> found on my pituitary gland and you know what he said? You have

> hypogonadism but it is the result of something else going on in your

> body, not a defect with your testicles or your pituitary. He

> recanted a study that was done on Marine recruits at he thinks camp

> LeJeune that were going through basic training. The recruits

> Testosterone levels were checked when they entered boot camp (18=20

> year olds) and then on their last day of boot camp. Do you know what

> they found? the average recruit's testosterone level was

> significantly higher on the last day then when they entered. The

> reason? Stress of what was going to happen at boot camp.When the

> stress was over (last days) their levels went up. I asked him what

> this had to do with me and why he thinks my hypogonadism is the

> result of something else wrong in my body because after 3 months of

> TRT my testicles showed no signs of atrophy and when my testosterone

> levels were at 210 my beard and body were unaffected. At this time I

> also informed the Endo that 2 days prior I had a sleep study done

> and it was determined I had sleep apnea. He then stated that with

> the sleep apnea and a stressful job situation were the root of my

> problem and that what was causing my hypogonism. Resolve the 2 and

> my levels should climb back up naturally. He suggested discontinuing

> the TRT after talking to my orig ENDO and GP. Has anybody else heard

> about something like this? I did read an article of a study that was

> done at a hospital in Israel that supported the theory but wanted to

> reach out to the rest of you for advise. I listed below my last post

> which had my blood work results as of 3/9/05.

>

> Thanks

> Mike

>

> I need some help with understanding what is going on with my

> > bloodwork. Here are the results from my 3 blood tests.

> >

> > 12/6/04 Results Range

> >

> > Total T 210 241-827

> >

> > On January 27 - I visited an Endocrinologist who took the

> > > following

> > > > blood test. Endo was not particularly happy I had started

> TRT

> > > > without a more comprehensive blood work.

> > > >

> > > > Results Range

> > > > HCG, QL, Serum Negative Negtive

> > > > FSH 1.7 1.4 - 18.1 mIU/mL

> > > > LH 3.6 1.5 - 9.3

> > > > Prolactin 6.7 2.0 - 18.0 ng/mL

> > > > Estradiol <32 <52 pg/mL

> > > > Total Testosterone 278 241 - 827 ng/dl

> >

> > On 3/1/04

> > My Gp drew blood and did a CBC test with everything in range.

> A

> > Hepatic function panel with everything range except my ALT

> which was

> > for the first time slightly elevated over the high range by 3

> points

> >

> > Results Range

> > Total T 654 241-827

> >

> > Free T 42.5 6.8-21.5

> >

> > I did not have a E2 level test and I still do not feelthat much

> > better with my T levels almost tripling. My Endo switched me

> from 5

> > mg of AG to 10mg which would account for my big elevation

> between my

> > last 2 tests. But what does the high levels of free T mean? Also

> as

> > I posted last week my Endo found a small tumor on my

> pitutitary

> > gland but does not think it is the reason for my original low T.

> >

> > Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated

> >

> > Thanks Mike

March 16, 2005

Phil,

Thanks for the response. I have been under a great deal of stress

the last 2.5 years. I actually had a heart attack at 43 years of

age. I have suspected for a number of years that I might have sleep

apnea but in 1999 I had a deviated septum fixed and it helped

tremendously with my snoring so I discarded the apnea (people used

to say my snoring sounded like I was gasping for air and I would

actually at times wake up from it). I am frustrated because I have

no clear answers. I have 1 Endo prescribing TRT and saying he sees

nothing wrong with my testicles and that the tumor on the pituitary

is so msall and is probably just a non-performing growth that he

does not think this is the cause either while the 2 Endo thinks the

my Hypogonadism is the result of something else going on in my body,

like stress or sleep apnea. I guess I am just venting.....

Thanks

Mike

>

> Hello,

>

> I just got back from seeing another Endocrinologist. He examined

me

> and saw all my blood work and the report on the small tumor they

> found on my pituitary gland and you know what he said? You have

> hypogonadism but it is the result of something else going on in

your

> body, not a defect with your testicles or your pituitary. He

> recanted a study that was done on Marine recruits at he thinks

camp

> LeJeune that were going through basic training. The recruits

> Testosterone levels were checked when they entered boot camp

(18=20

> year olds) and then on their last day of boot camp. Do you know

what

> they found? the average recruit's testosterone level was

> significantly higher on the last day then when they entered. The

> reason? Stress of what was going to happen at boot camp.When the

> stress was over (last days) their levels went up. I asked him what

> this had to do with me and why he thinks my hypogonadism is the

> result of something else wrong in my body because after 3 months

of

> TRT my testicles showed no signs of atrophy and when my

testosterone

> levels were at 210 my beard and body were unaffected. At this time

I

> also informed the Endo that 2 days prior I had a sleep study done

> and it was determined I had sleep apnea. He then stated that with

> the sleep apnea and a stressful job situation were the root of my

> problem and that what was causing my hypogonism. Resolve the 2 and

> my levels should climb back up naturally. He suggested

discontinuing

> the TRT after talking to my orig ENDO and GP. Has anybody else

heard

> about something like this? I did read an article of a study that

was

> done at a hospital in Israel that supported the theory but wanted

to

> reach out to the rest of you for advise. I listed below my last

post

> which had my blood work results as of 3/9/05.

>

> Thanks

> Mike

>

> I need some help with understanding what is going on with my

> > bloodwork. Here are the results from my 3 blood tests.

> >

> > 12/6/04 Results Range

> >

> > Total T 210 241-827

> >

> > On January 27 - I visited an Endocrinologist who took the

> > > following

> > > > blood test. Endo was not particularly happy I had started

> TRT

> > > > without a more comprehensive blood work.

> > > >

> > > > Results Range

> > > > HCG, QL, Serum Negative Negtive

> > > > FSH 1.7 1.4 - 18.1 mIU/mL

> > > > LH 3.6 1.5 - 9.3

> > > > Prolactin 6.7 2.0 - 18.0 ng/mL

> > > > Estradiol <32 <52 pg/mL

> > > > Total Testosterone 278 241 - 827 ng/dl

> >

> > On 3/1/04

> > My Gp drew blood and did a CBC test with everything in range.

> A

> > Hepatic function panel with everything range except my ALT

> which was

> > for the first time slightly elevated over the high range by 3

> points

> >

> > Results Range

> > Total T 654 241-827

> >

> > Free T 42.5 6.8-21.5

> >

> > I did not have a E2 level test and I still do not feelthat much

> > better with my T levels almost tripling. My Endo switched me

> from 5

> > mg of AG to 10mg which would account for my big elevation

> between my

> > last 2 tests. But what does the high levels of free T mean? Also

> as

> > I posted last week my Endo found a small tumor on my

> pitutitary

> > gland but does not think it is the reason for my original low T.

> >

> > Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated

> >

> > Thanks Mike

>

March 16, 2005

Ernest,

Thanks for your reply. The endo thinks my testicles are fine and

something else is causing the hypothalmus/pituitary problem. He said

he believes in TRT but does not think that is my long term solution

since I still do not feel better with total T over 600 and with

plenty of Free T and good E2 levels. Maybe I am just trying to

convince myself.

Thanks for the advise.

Mike

> >

> > Hello,

> >

> > I just got back from seeing another Endocrinologist. He examined

me

> > and saw all my blood work and the report on the small tumor they

> > found on my pituitary gland and you know what he said? You have

> > hypogonadism but it is the result of something else going on in

your

> > body, not a defect with your testicles or your pituitary. He

> > recanted a study that was done on Marine recruits at he thinks

camp

> > LeJeune that were going through basic training. The recruits

> > Testosterone levels were checked when they entered boot camp

(18=20

> > year olds) and then on their last day of boot camp. Do you know

what

> > they found? the average recruit's testosterone level was

> > significantly higher on the last day then when they entered. The

> > reason? Stress of what was going to happen at boot camp.When the

> > stress was over (last days) their levels went up. I asked him

what

> > this had to do with me and why he thinks my hypogonadism is the

> > result of something else wrong in my body because after 3

months of

> > TRT my testicles showed no signs of atrophy and when my

testosterone

> > levels were at 210 my beard and body were unaffected. At this

time I

> > also informed the Endo that 2 days prior I had a sleep study

done

> > and it was determined I had sleep apnea. He then stated that

with

> > the sleep apnea and a stressful job situation were the root of

my

> > problem and that what was causing my hypogonism. Resolve the 2

and

> > my levels should climb back up naturally. He suggested

discontinuing

> > the TRT after talking to my orig ENDO and GP. Has anybody else

heard

> > about something like this? I did read an article of a study that

was

> > done at a hospital in Israel that supported the theory but

wanted to

> > reach out to the rest of you for advise. I listed below my last

post

> > which had my blood work results as of 3/9/05.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Mike

> >

> > I need some help with understanding what is going on with my

> > > bloodwork. Here are the results from my 3 blood tests.

> > >

> > > 12/6/04 Results Range

> > >

> > > Total T 210 241-827

> > >

> > > On January 27 - I visited an Endocrinologist who took the

> > > > following

> > > > > blood test. Endo was not particularly happy I had started

> > TRT

> > > > > without a more comprehensive blood work.

> > > > >

> > > > > Results Range

> > > > > HCG, QL, Serum Negative Negtive

> > > > > FSH 1.7 1.4 - 18.1 mIU/mL

> > > > > LH 3.6 1.5 - 9.3

> > > > > Prolactin 6.7 2.0 - 18.0 ng/mL

> > > > > Estradiol <32 <52 pg/mL

> > > > > Total Testosterone 278 241 - 827 ng/dl

> > >

> > > On 3/1/04

> > > My Gp drew blood and did a CBC test with everything in range.

> > A

> > > Hepatic function panel with everything range except my ALT

> > which was

> > > for the first time slightly elevated over the high range by 3

> > points

> > >

> > > Results Range

> > > Total T 654 241-827

> > >

> > > Free T 42.5 6.8-21.5

> > >

> > > I did not have a E2 level test and I still do not feelthat much

> > > better with my T levels almost tripling. My Endo switched me

> > from 5

> > > mg of AG to 10mg which would account for my big elevation

> > between my

> > > last 2 tests. But what does the high levels of free T mean?

Also

> > as

> > > I posted last week my Endo found a small tumor on my

> > pitutitary

> > > gland but does not think it is the reason for my original low

T.

> > >

> > > Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated

> > >

> > > Thanks Mike

March 16, 2005

Sorry to hear about your wasted visit with that quack.

Military basic training includes the most rigorous physical training, diet,

sleep discipline,

and aggressive mental conditioning most people will ever see. To imply T went up

because

recruits were glad to see training end is ludicrous. I see nothing relevent to

hypogonadism

treatment decision-making.