Re: Sheep (last comment, promise!)

[Guest guest]

Mr. Moderator has asked that we cut this discussion off, but please feel free

to write me privately.

Thanks for the replies.

Actually, and to be transparent with the group, I have had " gay tendencies "

most of my life but have a very happy heterosexual marriage. No, it's not

always easy. There is also at least one 400+ member group of gay men

that have (or would like to) live a straight lifestyle.

So, it is an option.

Also, If it is proven that those who are attracted to the same sex have an

organic basis for their orientation, doesn't that once again put gayness

into the realm of illness or abnormality? Therefore, such " studies " defeat

rather than help gay people to be accepted as normal.

Thanks

Dean

Dean Carroll

[Guest guest]

Dean,

I prefer to reply to the whole group so all can see my comments to your

comments.

I believe it is well established that many men are, at one time or another,

attracted too other men...this I think was the basis for Kinsey's original,

sexuality scale...with the polar extremes being....attracted to men only vs.

attracted to women only. I forget the number of points on the scale...but

all in between.

You wrote....

" Also, If it is proven that those who are attracted to the same sex have an

organic basis for their orientation, doesn't that once again put gayness

into the realm of illness or abnormality? Therefore, such " studies " defeat

rather than help gay people to be accepted as normal. "

If I recall correctly, when the American Psychiatric Association,

declassified homosexuality as a mental illness in 1974, homosexuality was

classified as a " variation in human sexuality " ,

I would value the judgment of that group more as they have some in-depth

understanding of human sexuality vs. we arm chair/laymen/psychiatrists.

When I see my psychiatrist next....I'm going to bring up this issue.

These are just labels that are convenient for discourse but have no basis

in reality.

Further, it's well accepted that in some animal species there is same sexual

attraction. Should man be any different?

Finally, I will be quite blunt....from your post I assume you consider

homosexuality a mental illness. Right? Can you please answer publicly?

Thanks,

OR eon

[Guest guest]

Baaaaaaa !

Sorry ! .........

Have made this comment before in this group, repeated here, hoping all members

will feel more that we are a family, and in support of each other, giving our

help and concerns, from and to each other :

Just because any member of this group makes any comment, including the subject,

or just the words, of ''gay'' or ''lesbian,'' does NOT indicate that this group,

or member of this group, is gay or lesbian. Know some members do NOT want to

use these words, which is your right, and understood. Although some members are

gay and lesbian, some somewhat OUT, and others NOT making public, even in a

group, the privacy of all members must be respected.

HAVE A GOOD DAY OR WHATEVER -- ONE DAY AT A TIME !

[Guest guest]

Les Means,

I don't have a problem with men that do not love men!

You are not in a " minority group " when you belong to a minority group, or

at least I do, you take every opportunity to educate.

I think there are good signs that we are moving towards the proposition that

" we " do not choose our sexuality, but rather our sexuality chooses us.

This concept obviously flies in the face of those that think we have a

choice and " must accept consequences of those choices. "

Your comments in a recent post about you not being gay, weird or anything

else...to me I thought down right derogatory. Hey I'm a big guy....I can

take that....doesn't hurt me....but I do have to call your hand. Unless

I'm mistaken you did make an apology post????? What did not being gay have

to do with the point you were attempting to make? Further your were linking

" gay weird or anything else which to me had a derogatory tone.

I think you are really exaggerating that I have issues with men that are not

attracted to men....

OR eon

[Guest guest]

Les,

I'm no attempting to tell you how to express yourself....I was just trying

to understand why you used the term " gay " " weird " or " anything " else.

Sure you may be accepting and attended a College with A " Gay Student Union "

....these are statement you make now after your initial post.

Why did you choose to use " gay " that's the issue I'm trying to

understand...why not a hemophiliac, etc.

Of course I'm vigilant when individuals are talking about gays...this I

think is the way minority groups advance....

I'm not the only gay man that belong to this group...I'm uncertain how the

other gay men received your initial post.

OR eon

[Guest guest]

> I'm not the only gay man that belong to this group...I'm uncertain how the

> other gay men received your initial post.

Can we please call an end to this particular discussion?

To answer your question, OR eon, I'm gay, and I thought the juxtaposition of

" gay " and " weird " was something I would rather not have seen, but I wrote it

off as an off-the-cuff comment and nothing more.

--Marc

[Guest guest]

Marc,

I was a member of ACT UP for some years and our slogo was Silence = Death.

I always speak up and out...

OR eon

[Guest guest]

Marc,

Further, I've not posted anything since yesterday and I thought Les' post

today started it up again...suggested I had issues with men not attracted to

men....not true.

OR eon

[Guest guest]

OK everyone, I'm going to start SERVING CHEESE with all these

WHINES!!!

PLEASE turn your sensitivity meters down! This is pointless. Let's

just drop this bickering and get back to normal here!

Thanks,

K4

> Marc,

>

> Further, I've not posted anything since yesterday and I thought

Les' post

> today started it up again...suggested I had issues with men not

attracted to

> men....not true.

>

> OR eon