Guest guest Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Bob, Just a SWAG - maybe you aren't going to need the androgel? Or maybe just a small amount? Not sure, others here have way more knowledge than me. MArk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 The day I am getting a blood test I don't put on the Gel untill after the test. I have had tests come back like that and my Dr. did not trust them so did not change anything the next month did the test again and came beck a lot less. I would say the lab did something wrong. Phil Bob <ballen3_2000@...> wrote: All, I just got the results of my test on the 11th, on 2pkg. This was to be the baseline before trying hcG. The lab had delayed these test and had to rerun them for some reason. time line: all test Quest range 260-1000 june 24th total T 212 started 1 pkg androgel/day July 14th total T 213 started 2 pkg androgel/day Aug 11th results delayed Aug 13th did the 5000 IU of hcG Aug 16th total T 1633 still on 2 pkg/androgel plus 72 hours after the hcG. I was very excited about this number. and so was my doc so he wrote me a script for the hcG. Aug 30th got the results back from the 11th total T 1998 I was expecting this number to be closere to 500-700. This make me wonder about the 16th test. On the 11th my Dr. apt was at 1pm, and blood was taken at 1:35pm. I had applied androgel both packets at 7:00 am. On the 16th the blood draw was at 8:30 so I waited till after to apply the androgel. What is the rule about testing when using androgel. Should you skip a day before the test? Is there any chance that my actual total testosterone was infact 1998 from just doing the 2 pkg/day of androgel? Free T and DHT were through the roof as well. How long should I hold off on the androgel before going in for the test? Thanks, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Bob- I posted a thread on 8/12 entitled " Lab Results - shocking numbers - comments please. " along the same line as yours. My results were even more wild than yours - on just one pkg (5g) of per day for three months I tested at: Testosterone 1873 ng/dl (range 241 to 827) Testosterone, Serum** = 1594 ng/dl (range 241 - 827) Free Testosterone (Direct)** = >47 pg/ml (range 6.8 - 21.5) My Androgel hadn't been applied for 36 hours prior to my test, so I'm not sure what impact that had. The AG insert suggests that even if you stop applying AG your blood levels remain consistent for quite some time. (I don't recall the exact time-frame but it was long (weeks? Months?) You can double check that.) I didn't get many replies I recall as helping me to understand this, other than one suggestion that I didn't metabolize T well and it was building up. I'm really curious about what your estrogen and estradiol levels were. Were they tested? Mine, were through the roof. > wild test results? > > All, > > I just got the results of my test on the 11th, on 2pkg. This > was to be the baseline before trying hcG. > > The lab had delayed these test and had to rerun them for some reason. > > time line: > all test Quest range 260-1000 > june 24th total T 212 started 1 pkg androgel/day July 14th > total T 213 started 2 pkg androgel/day Aug 11th results > delayed Aug 13th did the 5000 IU of hcG Aug 16th total T 1633 > still on 2 pkg/androgel plus 72 hours after the hcG. I was > very excited about this number. and so was my doc so he wrote > me a script for the hcG. > > Aug 30th got the results back from the 11th total T 1998 > > I was expecting this number to be closere to 500-700. > This make me wonder about the 16th test. > > On the 11th my Dr. apt was at 1pm, and blood was taken at > 1:35pm. I had applied androgel both packets at 7:00 am. > > On the 16th the blood draw was at 8:30 so I waited till after > to apply the androgel. > > What is the rule about testing when using androgel. Should > you skip a day before the test? Is there any chance that my > actual total testosterone was infact 1998 from just doing the > 2 pkg/day of androgel? Free T and DHT were through the roof as well. > > How long should I hold off on the androgel before going in > for the test? > > Thanks, > Bob > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Hey Bob, those results sure sound unreal!?? I would expect that sort of number from someone taking bodybuilding size doses of test. I think for you to have any real idea about how much the hcg is stimulating testosterone production you will have to stop androgel for some time, a month or 2 and get tests every 4 weeks. I will be really interested to see how you go with this, as i have just done the same. What were your E2 levels like? When my test levels were around 1300ng/dl, my estrogen levels were very high! > All, > > I just got the results of my test on the 11th, on 2pkg. This was to > be the baseline before trying hcG. > > The lab had delayed these test and had to rerun them for some reason. > > time line: > all test Quest range 260-1000 > june 24th total T 212 started 1 pkg androgel/day > July 14th total T 213 started 2 pkg androgel/day > Aug 11th results delayed > Aug 13th did the 5000 IU of hcG > Aug 16th total T 1633 still on 2 pkg/androgel plus 72 hours after > the hcG. I was very excited about this number. and so was my doc so > he wrote me a script for the hcG. > > Aug 30th got the results back from the 11th total T 1998 > > I was expecting this number to be closere to 500-700. > This make me wonder about the 16th test. > > On the 11th my Dr. apt was at 1pm, and blood was taken at 1:35pm. I > had applied androgel both packets at 7:00 am. > > On the 16th the blood draw was at 8:30 so I waited till after to > apply the androgel. > > What is the rule about testing when using androgel. Should you skip > a day before the test? Is there any chance that my actual total > testosterone was infact 1998 from just doing the 2 pkg/day of > androgel? Free T and DHT were through the roof as well. > > How long should I hold off on the androgel before going in for the > test? > > Thanks, > Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 The super high number was before I did the hcG test. Have not done any androgel since Monday. Going in for test this afternoon. Still doing the hcG. Even if it is not doing much for my T levels it does make the testicles feel real again. Today's test will be for Total T, Free T, DHT, and E2. Wish there was a home test kit so you can monitor it like people monitor blood sugar. Will keep you posted. Bob > > All, > > > > I just got the results of my test on the 11th, on 2pkg. This was > to > > be the baseline before trying hcG. > > > > The lab had delayed these test and had to rerun them for some > reason. > > > > time line: > > all test Quest range 260-1000 > > june 24th total T 212 started 1 pkg androgel/day > > July 14th total T 213 started 2 pkg androgel/day > > Aug 11th results delayed > > Aug 13th did the 5000 IU of hcG > > Aug 16th total T 1633 still on 2 pkg/androgel plus 72 hours after > > the hcG. I was very excited about this number. and so was my doc > so > > he wrote me a script for the hcG. > > > > Aug 30th got the results back from the 11th total T 1998 > > > > I was expecting this number to be closere to 500-700. > > This make me wonder about the 16th test. > > > > On the 11th my Dr. apt was at 1pm, and blood was taken at 1:35pm. > I > > had applied androgel both packets at 7:00 am. > > > > On the 16th the blood draw was at 8:30 so I waited till after to > > apply the androgel. > > > > What is the rule about testing when using androgel. Should you > skip > > a day before the test? Is there any chance that my actual total > > testosterone was infact 1998 from just doing the 2 pkg/day of > > androgel? Free T and DHT were through the roof as well. > > > > How long should I hold off on the androgel before going in for the > > test? > > > > Thanks, > > Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 My e2 was not tested at this time. the prior test it was good 26 (range 10-50). Not sure I understand the building up argument. For me I was on one packet/day for 19 days and it only raised my T level 1 point. I realise that it was shutting down and replacing my own production at this time. This is why we went from one to 2 pkg/day. About a month on 2 pkgs/day this test showed a level of 1998 up from 213. (260- 1000). soap box: the anoying part is I was expecting these numbers to be around 500-700 based on how I was feeling. The lab delayed the results for my test on the 11th. We tried the hcG test on the 13th and retested on the 16th. Was hopping for a dynamic change in numbers. When we got the 16th results (before the 11th results), we were pleased with the results as it looked like my testicles are very good and just needed help starting. When I got the results form the 11th and it was higher then the results form the 16th it was a major let down. Bob > Bob- I posted a thread on 8/12 entitled " Lab Results - shocking numbers - > comments please. " along the same line as yours. > > My results were even more wild than yours - on just one pkg (5g) of per day > for three months I tested at: > > Testosterone 1873 ng/dl (range 241 to 827) > Testosterone, Serum** = 1594 ng/dl (range 241 - 827) > Free Testosterone (Direct)** = >47 pg/ml (range 6.8 - 21.5) > > My Androgel hadn't been applied for 36 hours prior to my test, so I'm not > sure what impact that had. The AG insert suggests that even if you stop > applying AG your blood levels remain consistent for quite some time. (I > don't recall the exact time-frame but it was long (weeks? Months?) You can > double check that.) > > I didn't get many replies I recall as helping me to understand this, other > than one suggestion that I didn't metabolize T well and it was building up. > > I'm really curious about what your estrogen and estradiol levels were. Were > they tested? Mine, were through the roof. > > > > > wild test results? > > > > All, > > > > I just got the results of my test on the 11th, on 2pkg. This > > was to be the baseline before trying hcG. > > > > The lab had delayed these test and had to rerun them for some reason. > > > > time line: > > all test Quest range 260-1000 > > june 24th total T 212 started 1 pkg androgel/day July 14th > > total T 213 started 2 pkg androgel/day Aug 11th results > > delayed Aug 13th did the 5000 IU of hcG Aug 16th total T 1633 > > still on 2 pkg/androgel plus 72 hours after the hcG. I was > > very excited about this number. and so was my doc so he wrote > > me a script for the hcG. > > > > Aug 30th got the results back from the 11th total T 1998 > > > > I was expecting this number to be closere to 500-700. > > This make me wonder about the 16th test. > > > > On the 11th my Dr. apt was at 1pm, and blood was taken at > > 1:35pm. I had applied androgel both packets at 7:00 am. > > > > On the 16th the blood draw was at 8:30 so I waited till after > > to apply the androgel. > > > > What is the rule about testing when using androgel. Should > > you skip a day before the test? Is there any chance that my > > actual total testosterone was infact 1998 from just doing the > > 2 pkg/day of androgel? Free T and DHT were through the roof as well. > > > > How long should I hold off on the androgel before going in > > for the test? > > > > Thanks, > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Dave this is what blows my mind you E2 is very high so your T should have a hard time going up. When I got my E2 down my T levels shot up and we lowed my T. meds. Phil Dave <daultman@...> wrote: Bob- I posted a thread on 8/12 entitled " Lab Results - shocking numbers - comments please. " along the same line as yours. My results were even more wild than yours - on just one pkg (5g) of per day for three months I tested at: Testosterone 1873 ng/dl (range 241 to 827) Testosterone, Serum** = 1594 ng/dl (range 241 - 827) Free Testosterone (Direct)** = >47 pg/ml (range 6.8 - 21.5) My Androgel hadn't been applied for 36 hours prior to my test, so I'm not sure what impact that had. The AG insert suggests that even if you stop applying AG your blood levels remain consistent for quite some time. (I don't recall the exact time-frame but it was long (weeks? Months?) You can double check that.) I didn't get many replies I recall as helping me to understand this, other than one suggestion that I didn't metabolize T well and it was building up. I'm really curious about what your estrogen and estradiol levels were. Were they tested? Mine, were through the roof. > wild test results? > > All, > > I just got the results of my test on the 11th, on 2pkg. This > was to be the baseline before trying hcG. > > The lab had delayed these test and had to rerun them for some reason. > > time line: > all test Quest range 260-1000 > june 24th total T 212 started 1 pkg androgel/day July 14th > total T 213 started 2 pkg androgel/day Aug 11th results > delayed Aug 13th did the 5000 IU of hcG Aug 16th total T 1633 > still on 2 pkg/androgel plus 72 hours after the hcG. I was > very excited about this number. and so was my doc so he wrote > me a script for the hcG. > > Aug 30th got the results back from the 11th total T 1998 > > I was expecting this number to be closere to 500-700. > This make me wonder about the 16th test. > > On the 11th my Dr. apt was at 1pm, and blood was taken at > 1:35pm. I had applied androgel both packets at 7:00 am. > > On the 16th the blood draw was at 8:30 so I waited till after > to apply the androgel. > > What is the rule about testing when using androgel. Should > you skip a day before the test? Is there any chance that my > actual total testosterone was infact 1998 from just doing the > 2 pkg/day of androgel? Free T and DHT were through the roof as well. > > How long should I hold off on the androgel before going in > for the test? > > Thanks, > Bob > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Phil, even if the E2 is a result of the TRT? Could it be that as long as I keep slathering the Androgel on and both T and E2 will continue to rise? I've read in a couple of places that some doctors aren't concerned about how E2 is, as long as it's in proper ratio to T. I'm concerned, though, because I definitely have early signs of gyno...my nipples have never felt so sensitive. It's not necessarily a bad feeling, but the last thing I need is to grow female breasts! I've seen the endo I'm scheduled to see for my thyroid in the past, and I'm sure she's not going to be up to speed on this stuff. I might as well cancel and save the office visit fee. <sigh> > RE: wild test results? > > > Dave this is what blows my mind you E2 is very high so your T > should have a hard time going up. When I got my E2 down my T > levels shot up and we lowed my T. meds. > Phil > > Dave <daultman@...> wrote: > Bob- I posted a thread on 8/12 entitled " Lab Results - > shocking numbers - comments please. " along the same line as yours. > > My results were even more wild than yours - on just one pkg > (5g) of per day for three months I tested at: > > Testosterone 1873 ng/dl (range 241 to 827) Testosterone, > Serum** = 1594 ng/dl (range 241 - 827) Free Testosterone > (Direct)** = >47 pg/ml (range 6.8 - 21.5) > > My Androgel hadn't been applied for 36 hours prior to my > test, so I'm not sure what impact that had. The AG insert > suggests that even if you stop applying AG your blood levels > remain consistent for quite some time. (I don't recall the > exact time-frame but it was long (weeks? Months?) You can > double check that.) > > I didn't get many replies I recall as helping me to > understand this, other than one suggestion that I didn't > metabolize T well and it was building up. > > I'm really curious about what your estrogen and estradiol > levels were. Were they tested? Mine, were through the roof. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:00:29 -0700, you wrote: > >Testosterone 1873 ng/dl (range 241 to 827) >Testosterone, Serum** = 1594 ng/dl (range 241 - 827) >Free Testosterone (Direct)** = >47 pg/ml (range 6.8 - 21.5) > >My Androgel hadn't been applied for 36 hours prior to my test, so I'm not >sure what impact that had. The AG insert suggests that even if you stop >applying AG your blood levels remain consistent for quite some time. (I >don't recall the exact time-frame but it was long (weeks? Months?) You can >double check that.) I wrote before that you might not be metabolizing the T and your levels increasing. Another possibility might be you had gel on your arm where they took the sample. For the next test clean the draw site well before it's taken. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:00:29 -0700, you wrote: >Bob- I posted a thread on 8/12 entitled " Lab Results - shocking numbers - >comments please. " along the same line as yours. > >My results were even more wild than yours - on just one pkg (5g) of per day >for three months I tested at: > >Testosterone 1873 ng/dl (range 241 to 827) >Testosterone, Serum** = 1594 ng/dl (range 241 - 827) >Free Testosterone (Direct)** = >47 pg/ml (range 6.8 - 21.5) > >My Androgel hadn't been applied for 36 hours prior to my test, so I'm not >sure what impact that had. The AG insert suggests that even if you stop >applying AG your blood levels remain consistent for quite some time. (I >don't recall the exact time-frame but it was long (weeks? Months?) You can >double check that.) > >I didn't get many replies I recall as helping me to understand this, other >than one suggestion that I didn't metabolize T well and it was building up. > >I'm really curious about what your estrogen and estradiol levels were. Were >they tested? Mine, were through the roof. I was the fellow who posted the notion that you are not metabolizing T. I've thought about it more and I do think that is the likely problem. It'd be something quite unique but not unheard of. I really suggest giving a listen to these tapes I mentioned before: http://tinyurl.com/6zbps " # Lecture 6 describes how the brain regulates the physiology of organs throughout the body through hormone release. # Lecture 7 completes the endocrine circle by examining how hormones, in turn, regulate the brain. The role of estrogen and testosterone in mood, behavior, and aggression are a recurring theme in these lectures. " It lays out in about 7.5 hours enough endocrinology to understand and think about these things. I can't recommend this series too highly. The audio version is on sale now for only $15. Try your library. If you have trouble getting it or it's out of reach for you these days drop me a line off group. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 08:31:52 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >Dave this is what blows my mind you E2 is very high so your T should have a hard time going up. When I got my E2 down my T levels shot up and we lowed my T. meds. I think you have this backwards. The high T causes the high E2. E2 being one of two metabolism routes for T, higher T will lead to higher E2. Extra high levels of T should lead to extra high levels of E2. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Phil, Your persistance in educating your doc is inspirational. You probably already know this: Arimidex IS prescribed for men, for male breast cancer. I think it's " on-label " for that. Bruce His main reason for not giving me Arimidex is that he was worried about my BCBC calling asking why he was giving me a med that is only approver by the FDA for women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 > I wrote before that you might not be metabolizing the T and > your levels increasing. Another possibility might be you had > gel on your arm where they took the sample. For the next test > clean the draw site well before it's taken. Indeed you did, and I mentioned it in my post as the only suggestion I really received as the cause, didn't I? I know I repeated that suggestion at some point in this thread. FYI- For my blood test: The latest Androgel was applied on Thursday morning. The blood test was taken Friday afternoon (~33 hours later). I showered with soap and water Friday morning. I did not apply AG again until *after* the blood test. I usually only apply AG to my upper arms, shoulders and neck. The veins in my arms are so deep they can't get blood from them, so blood is always drawn with a butterfly catheter from the top of my hands. I really don't think residual AG was the cause of my test results, but I do appreciate your responding. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 > Indeed you did, and I mentioned it in my post as the only > suggestion I really received as the cause, didn't I? I know > I repeated that suggestion at some point in this thread. Re-reading that first sentence, it comes across sounding like a challenge, which wasn't my intent. It was meant as a question, like " I thought I did, you mean I didn't? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 23:25:42 -0700, you wrote: >> Indeed you did, and I mentioned it in my post as the only >> suggestion I really received as the cause, didn't I? I know >> I repeated that suggestion at some point in this thread. > >Re-reading that first sentence, it comes across sounding like a challenge, >which wasn't my intent. It was meant as a question, like " I thought I did, >you mean I didn't? " No problem. I saw you did at the bottom of the message after I'd already responded to an earlier paragraph. I need to learn to read the whole message before responding. ;-) I tend to react to ideas as they come up. And not get the whole message read first. - - - - Just another albino black sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2004 Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 Phil, better get some Rogaine with those DHT levels, no? > Re: wild test results? > > Reto yes my DHT is up to 140 range 25 to 75 but my Dr. is not > worried about it. So you are right. My T levels went up > over 400 points getting my E2 down and going to low I feel it > caused my Thyroid's tsh to go up. > Phil > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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