Re: Arimidex half life / DMG - A replay from Dr. at WebMD,

[Guest guest]

I have to admit that I am a little bit concerned about the long term use of

Arimidex. Hell there is not much out there about it for men. The Dr. at webMD

said that use of Aromatase Inhibitors for more then 3 months can cause problems.

The only thing my Dr. knows about doing this is what I got him started on.

Here is a cut & paste.

Re: Test and estrogen level

by Sheldon_Marks_MD, on 10/4/2004 1:48:56 AM

You should not take aromatase inhibitors without the oversight and guidance of

someone who kows about potential risks. men who take these for more than 3

months can get serious problems with bone weakening (osteoporosis). I think

seeing an endocrinologist may be a good idea for you.

In addition, any time a man gets nipple tenderness or fullness or breast

fullness, you should be seen by a general surgeon. You do not want to assume

anything and then find out it is something more serious. Male breast cancer is

far more common than men realize and is often quite deadly because they wait so

long.

REPLY to this Post | MORE POSTS by Sheldon_Marks_MD

Phil

doublebluellc@... wrote:Phil,

Evidently Dr. is trying to lower total estrogens through two supplements

DIM and DMG. He hasn't decided if the protocol is worth publicizing just yet.

However, he does feel that estrogen management should be comprehensive and

not just focused on E2. Evidently, there are some other very bad forms of

estrogen (when levels are high).

In a message dated 10/10/2004 5:02:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

pmgamer18@... writes:

can you put that in Dum Ass language it went over my head and today is

a foggy one.

Phil

doublebluellc@... wrote:

Anyone know anything about DMG? I read about it on sculpted by iron.com. Two

copied posts from sculpted by iron.com below.

from nick delgado, phd.

DIM, DMG effective dosage

For men, we are using Diindolylmethane-DIM at 100 mg and 150 mg of -

N,N-Dimethylglycine (DMG), this combined with calcium D-Glucarate-CDG and D-G

lucoronlactone-G per capsule, at dosages of 6 capsules per day for 10 days

during the

loading and cleansing phase to clear excess metabolites of estrogen -(16aOHE,

4

Methoxyestrone).

After the 10 days, one can go to a maintenance dosage of 2-3 capsules a day

(300 mg of DIM, 450 mg of DMG, 270 mg of methyl donors CDG & G). That is

mixed

in with some six other ingredients (Maca, Chrysin, Green Tea, Avena Sativa,

Phaseolamine-starch blocker, and Mucuna Pruriens for L-dopa effect).

The results are a strong shift toward clearing bad estrogens, nipple

problems, prostate improvement, and sexual enhancement. We are interested in

others

trying the formula. Check with Swale.

from Dr. :

We've often talked of how estradiol (E2) is the most active estrogen, amongst

the 40 or so " flavors " of same. Most are also aware that it interconverts

readily with estrone (E1), which is much less potent. Nick Delgado, PhD and I

are

looking into managing two estrogen metabolites (all the ones I mention here

come from estrone) which are mutagenic, genotoxic, and procarcinogenic:

16-a-hydroxyestrone and 4-hydroxyestrone. For some balance, 2-hydroxyestrone

is being

appreciated as a " good " estrogen, and provides substrate for production of

2-methoxyestradiol, which is being evaluated for its effectiveness as cancer

treatment in many quarters. Of note, a ratio of 2-OHE to 16-AOHE less than

2.0 is

felt by many to increase the risk of significant illness, such as prostate

and colon cancer.

The supplement DIM, which is extracted from cruciferous vegetables, favors

the CYP1A1 enzyme, which increases the good 2-OHE production.

Once we got started, I came to appreciate the free radical generation

properties of 4-OHE, and so ordered a change in the OTC we are using to

include DMG,

which manipulates the CYP1B1 enzyme to decrease its production. That new

supplement proprietary blend will have its production come on line in another

week

or so. Antioxidant supplementation may also thwart the carcinogenic

properties

of 4-OHE.

There are A LOT of people working in this same area, for obvious good reason.

We just wanted to see how it performs as an OTC supplement in my patients,

because I am so intimately aware of their Medical History, and how their

hormonal systems function. While it may very well be that every man would

benefit

from this type of therapy, those gentlemen who are most sensitive to estrogen

(i.e. lifelong gyno issues) are of special interest, and have been the first

ones

contacted. Because DIM is readily available OTC, we are simply providing

laboratory analysis of pre- and post- DIM and DMG supplementation, and asking

my

good patients to provide feedback on how they feel on it.

Something interesting has shown up since starting this little project. I am

noticing that some of my patients whose E2 is being controlled to midrange,

or

even lower, with Arimidex, nonetheless are well above physiological range for

Total Estrogens. I didn't see this before simply because I wasn't drawing

Total E's. It MAY be that males using an AI indeed need to supplement with

DIM and

DMG, as those patients who are on statin drugs need CoQ10. We're going to

give that notion a lot of thought.

I'm going to post this REPLY in the sticky thread here which describes this

treatment opportunity for my patients. You read it first on SBI

[Guest guest]

Your math would make DIM 30mg/tablet (30 X 4 = 120).

Best,

In a message dated 10/11/2004 4:06:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

daultman@... writes:

100 mg of DIM - is that the active ingredient portion?

The Indolplex supplement recommended here in another thread is 120 mg per

tablet and the ingredients list shows that is 25% DIM, so at 40 mg DIM per

tab it would take 2.5 tabs to make that recommended dosage, right?

It's all so confusing sometimes.

[Guest guest]

100 mg of DIM - is that the active ingredient portion?

The Indolplex supplement recommended here in another thread is 120 mg per

tablet and the ingredients list shows that is 25% DIM, so at 40 mg DIM per

tab it would take 2.5 tabs to make that recommended dosage, right?

It's all so confusing sometimes.

> DIM, DMG effective dosage

> For men, we are using Diindolylmethane-DIM at 100 mg and 150

> mg of - N,N-Dimethylglycine (DMG), this combined with calcium

> D-Glucarate-CDG and D-G lucoronlactone-G per capsule, at

> dosages of 6 capsules per day for 10 days during the loading

> and cleansing phase to clear excess metabolites of estrogen -(16aOHE,

> 4

> Methoxyestrone).

[Guest guest]

See what brain fog does...can't even do math to correctly answer 25%.

Sheesh!

> Re: Arimidex half life / DMG - A

> replay from Dr. at WebMD,

>

>

> Your math would make DIM 30mg/tablet (30 X 4 = 120).

>

> Best,

>

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 10/11/2004 4:06:36 PM Eastern Daylight

> Time, daultman@... writes:

> 100 mg of DIM - is that the active ingredient portion?

>

> The Indolplex supplement recommended here in another thread

> is 120 mg per tablet and the ingredients list shows that is

> 25% DIM, so at 40 mg DIM per tab it would take 2.5 tabs to

> make that recommended dosage, right?

>

> It's all so confusing sometimes.

>

>

>