What hope is there really- for me anyway.

March 15, 2005

These are two messages I just posted on the UK board.

Two packets of testogel a day half a DIM tablet every second day.

Significant weight gain.

Female distribution at the hips gynecomastia getting worse.

Erections- Far far worse that before TRT-not possible even with

viagra.

Underarm hair almost all gone. Pubic hair now sparse.

Feeling- exhausted, far far worse than before TRT. Sleeping 12hrs a

day, if I play doubles tennis with 70yr olds for an hours on a sunday

morning I feel wrecked for about 4 days.

Libido- Non existant. Far, far worse than before TRT, no sexual

thoughts at all.

Concentration- non existant.

I would love to have the energy of some of the 70 year olds that I

see on a Sunday morning playing tennis- never mind anything else.

Virtually no money left for private pathology- any that I can muster

would be that of the banks and further debt.

NHS not wanting to do anything.

Still awaiting appointment for gatroenterologist to look into

possible Haemochchromatosis- it has been months and this may not turn

out to be an issue.

Emailed a top doctor in the US who offered some hope via email and

detailed what may be wrong- but emails have stopped???

DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE????????

I just phoned up my old endocrinologist to find out about a Bone

Density Scan I had several months ago as I was never given what the

exact result was. I was just put on calcium tablets and had to ask

why this was. My gp told me- Oh because you have osteopenia.

Anyway I tried to get the exact result today and this is what

happened.

I heard my old endo in the background talking to his secretary. They

were laughing/joking because I was asking the question. It was

obvious they thought that I was a-ok and had nothing wrong with me.

Anyway he cam on the phone and told me that my T score was – 2 and

that this was probably because we don't get much sunshine in the UK

and he said I was at minor risk.

So I looked into the matter

http://www.nos.org.uk/PDF/PDXAstatement.pdf#search='BMD%

20measurements'

Extract

Osteoporosis has been defined as reduced bone mineral density , with

architectural deterioration in bone structure by the World Health

Organisation (WHO). The level of bone mineral density that defines

osteoporosis was set at a T score of 2.5 or below.

So my osteopenia is close to being osteoporosis in my spine.

Strangely I don't feel like having a laugh or a joke about it,

neither do I think it is no big deal and I don't think it is because

of a lack of sunshine.

My old endos quotes or my summations

Sumation I probably have osteopenia verging on osteoporosis at 30

because of a lack of sunshine.

Direct quote `Estrogen doesn't exist in men'.

Direct quote `testicles cannot change in size you must have just

thought this happened psychologically'.

DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE??????

March 15, 2005

Yes, I know what I would do. I would immediately get on

depotestosterone shots, preferably 100mg every 7 days, and I would

get one right away, ASAP, knock off the T skin spread on stuff it

clearly is not working you are not absorbing it well, and I would

learn how to give myelf the shot right away. I would also be very

concerned about the advancing gyne and hip fat collections, these

are indicative of a estrogen/testosterone ratio problem. One DIM

every other day is a joke, to me, clearly it is not working, I would

take two a day one in morning one evening for a week , then stay on

one a day, also knock off all sugar and bread they are not

metabolized well and easily convert to fat. Eat protein and veggies,

work out raise your heart rate. You still have time to turn things

around, but you need to be on the shots, have strong estrogen

control, and strong diet and exercise going on to make it all happen.

norton

March 15, 2005

I have tried more DIM and less DIM and I have tried Arimidex all with

very limited results and my testosterone level on testogel has come

back at good levels.

So it would appear as though high testosterone levels make no

difference and neither do estrogen levels.

It has been mentioned as a possibility that I may have a form of

androgen resistance and possibly a IGF-1 problem by a top doctor in

the US.

But I am not able to speak with him and I have no money left to help

procure his or anybody elses help.

The NHS in the UK are not interested in me individually-

I am statistically unimportant.

I was told I could have further tests if I cam off testosterone for 3

months. I tried coming off it at Christmass and after two weeks or

so I was going out of my mind.

If coming off testosterone for three months is the choice it is no

choice at all.

Also it would significantly worsen my gynecomastia- something I have

been refused a surgical procedure for twice.

The reason for which is that it apparently doesn't psychologically

affect me- I live as a reculuse and wera two items of clothing....so?

The whole NHS system has hung me out to dry.

Even when I am 100% right I am 100% wrong and all the knowledge about

my condition in the world does not help me one jot.

>

> Yes, I know what I would do. I would immediately get on

> depotestosterone shots, preferably 100mg every 7 days, and I would

> get one right away, ASAP, knock off the T skin spread on stuff it

> clearly is not working you are not absorbing it well, and I would

> learn how to give myelf the shot right away. I would also be very

> concerned about the advancing gyne and hip fat collections, these

> are indicative of a estrogen/testosterone ratio problem. One DIM

> every other day is a joke, to me, clearly it is not working, I

would

> take two a day one in morning one evening for a week , then stay on

> one a day, also knock off all sugar and bread they are not

> metabolized well and easily convert to fat. Eat protein and

veggies,

> work out raise your heart rate. You still have time to turn things

> around, but you need to be on the shots, have strong estrogen

> control, and strong diet and exercise going on to make it all

happen.

> norton

March 15, 2005

Chis I though 3 or 4 weeks ago you were doing better then you are now so what do

you do if anyting that may have you feeling this way. I know when I got my E2

to low it made me dam sick.

Phil

chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

Phil It isn't that simple- I have had no DIM and had no improvement.

The problems with me do not look as simple as high or low E2.

> These are two messages I just posted on the UK board.

>

> Two packets of testogel a day half a DIM tablet every second day.

>

> Significant weight gain.

>

> Female distribution at the hips gynecomastia getting worse.

>

> Erections- Far far worse that before TRT-not possible even with

> viagra.

>

> Underarm hair almost all gone. Pubic hair now sparse.

>

> Feeling- exhausted, far far worse than before TRT. Sleeping 12hrs a

> day, if I play doubles tennis with 70yr olds for an hours on a

sunday

> morning I feel wrecked for about 4 days.

>

> Libido- Non existant. Far, far worse than before TRT, no sexual

> thoughts at all.

>

> Concentration- non existant.

>

> I would love to have the energy of some of the 70 year olds that I

> see on a Sunday morning playing tennis- never mind anything else.

>

> Virtually no money left for private pathology- any that I can

muster

> would be that of the banks and further debt.

>

> NHS not wanting to do anything.

>

> Still awaiting appointment for gatroenterologist to look into

> possible Haemochchromatosis- it has been months and this may not

turn

> out to be an issue.

>

> Emailed a top doctor in the US who offered some hope via email and

> detailed what may be wrong- but emails have stopped???

>

> DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE????????

>

> I just phoned up my old endocrinologist to find out about a Bone

> Density Scan I had several months ago as I was never given what the

> exact result was. I was just put on calcium tablets and had to ask

> why this was. My gp told me- Oh because you have osteopenia.

>

> Anyway I tried to get the exact result today and this is what

> happened.

>

> I heard my old endo in the background talking to his secretary.

They

> were laughing/joking because I was asking the question. It was

> obvious they thought that I was a-ok and had nothing wrong with me.

>

> Anyway he cam on the phone and told me that my T score was – 2 and

> that this was probably because we don't get much sunshine in the UK

> and he said I was at minor risk.

>

> So I looked into the matter

>

> http://www.nos.org.uk/PDF/PDXAstatement.pdf#search='BMD%

> 20measurements'

>

> Extract

> Osteoporosis has been defined as reduced bone mineral density ,

with

> architectural deterioration in bone structure by the World Health

> Organisation (WHO). The level of bone mineral density that defines

> osteoporosis was set at a T score of 2.5 or below.

>

> So my osteopenia is close to being osteoporosis in my spine.

>

> Strangely I don't feel like having a laugh or a joke about it,

> neither do I think it is no big deal and I don't think it is

because

> of a lack of sunshine.

>

> My old endos quotes or my summations

>

> Sumation I probably have osteopenia verging on osteoporosis at 30

> because of a lack of sunshine.

>

> Direct quote `Estrogen doesn't exist in men'.

>

> Direct quote `testicles cannot change in size you must have just

> thought this happened psychologically'.

>

> DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE??????

>

March 15, 2005

Phil I only had 4 days where I felt well- no more than that and how

or why that was is difficult to know.

I do not believe my situation is as simple as an E2 problem.

I have always been bad on testosterone apart from four great days at

the start of TRT and 4 great days in between- the ones you were aware

of. I know all about the importance of E2 and know the issues that

it has caused in yourself and others. I know I have had high E2 low

E2 and reasonable E2 in the past.

I fundamentally do not bellieve that it is the at the root of my

problems.

I have always had raised lumps around my beltline from taking

testosterone (not local to where the testosterone is put on)- like an

adverse reaction.

One top US doctor thinks I may have some form of androgen resistance

and may be a IGF-1 problem.

I think the chemotherapy drugs have really messed me up but I don't

even want to get into that because I am sick and tired of trying to

guess the reasons as to why I am at the point I am now.

All I know is I do not see any hope for the future becauce I have run

into debt trying to get privately treated and the NHS has hung me out

to dry.

> > These are two messages I just posted on the UK board.

> >

> > Two packets of testogel a day half a DIM tablet every second day.

> >

> > Significant weight gain.

> >

> > Female distribution at the hips gynecomastia getting worse.

> >

> > Erections- Far far worse that before TRT-not possible even with

> > viagra.

> >

> > Underarm hair almost all gone. Pubic hair now sparse.

> >

> > Feeling- exhausted, far far worse than before TRT. Sleeping 12hrs

a

> > day, if I play doubles tennis with 70yr olds for an hours on a

> sunday

> > morning I feel wrecked for about 4 days.

> >

> > Libido- Non existant. Far, far worse than before TRT, no sexual

> > thoughts at all.

> >

> > Concentration- non existant.

> >

> > I would love to have the energy of some of the 70 year olds that

I

> > see on a Sunday morning playing tennis- never mind anything else.

> >

> > Virtually no money left for private pathology- any that I can

> muster

> > would be that of the banks and further debt.

> >

> > NHS not wanting to do anything.

> >

> > Still awaiting appointment for gatroenterologist to look into

> > possible Haemochchromatosis- it has been months and this may not

> turn

> > out to be an issue.

> >

> > Emailed a top doctor in the US who offered some hope via email

and

> > detailed what may be wrong- but emails have stopped???

> >

> > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE????????

> >

> > I just phoned up my old endocrinologist to find out about a Bone

> > Density Scan I had several months ago as I was never given what

the

> > exact result was. I was just put on calcium tablets and had to

ask

> > why this was. My gp told me- Oh because you have osteopenia.

> >

> > Anyway I tried to get the exact result today and this is what

> > happened.

> >

> > I heard my old endo in the background talking to his secretary.

> They

> > were laughing/joking because I was asking the question. It was

> > obvious they thought that I was a-ok and had nothing wrong with

me.

> >

> > Anyway he cam on the phone and told me that my T score was – 2

and

> > that this was probably because we don't get much sunshine in the

UK

> > and he said I was at minor risk.

> >

> > So I looked into the matter

> >

> > http://www.nos.org.uk/PDF/PDXAstatement.pdf#search='BMD%

> > 20measurements'

> >

> > Extract

> > Osteoporosis has been defined as reduced bone mineral density ,

> with

> > architectural deterioration in bone structure by the World Health

> > Organisation (WHO). The level of bone mineral density that

defines

> > osteoporosis was set at a T score of 2.5 or below.

> >

> > So my osteopenia is close to being osteoporosis in my spine.

> >

> > Strangely I don't feel like having a laugh or a joke about it,

> > neither do I think it is no big deal and I don't think it is

> because

> > of a lack of sunshine.

> >

> > My old endos quotes or my summations

> >

> > Sumation I probably have osteopenia verging on osteoporosis at 30

> > because of a lack of sunshine.

> >

> > Direct quote `Estrogen doesn't exist in men'.

> >

> > Direct quote `testicles cannot change in size you must have just

> > thought this happened psychologically'.

> >

> > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE??????

> >

March 15, 2005

Well my heart goes out to you I have always had health care paid for and in the

21 yrs I have had Low T the best I have felt has been in the last 2 yrs. I know

how you feel in my case I felt hope less many a time and I know there on no

words that one could say to me in them days. Yet I kept going on.

Phil

chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

Phil I only had 4 days where I felt well- no more than that and how

or why that was is difficult to know.

I do not believe my situation is as simple as an E2 problem.

I have always been bad on testosterone apart from four great days at

the start of TRT and 4 great days in between- the ones you were aware

of. I know all about the importance of E2 and know the issues that

it has caused in yourself and others. I know I have had high E2 low

E2 and reasonable E2 in the past.

I fundamentally do not bellieve that it is the at the root of my

problems.

I have always had raised lumps around my beltline from taking

testosterone (not local to where the testosterone is put on)- like an

adverse reaction.

One top US doctor thinks I may have some form of androgen resistance

and may be a IGF-1 problem.

I think the chemotherapy drugs have really messed me up but I don't

even want to get into that because I am sick and tired of trying to

guess the reasons as to why I am at the point I am now.

All I know is I do not see any hope for the future becauce I have run

into debt trying to get privately treated and the NHS has hung me out

to dry.

> > These are two messages I just posted on the UK board.

> >

> > Two packets of testogel a day half a DIM tablet every second day.

> >

> > Significant weight gain.

> >

> > Female distribution at the hips gynecomastia getting worse.

> >

> > Erections- Far far worse that before TRT-not possible even with

> > viagra.

> >

> > Underarm hair almost all gone. Pubic hair now sparse.

> >

> > Feeling- exhausted, far far worse than before TRT. Sleeping 12hrs

a

> > day, if I play doubles tennis with 70yr olds for an hours on a

> sunday

> > morning I feel wrecked for about 4 days.

> >

> > Libido- Non existant. Far, far worse than before TRT, no sexual

> > thoughts at all.

> >

> > Concentration- non existant.

> >

> > I would love to have the energy of some of the 70 year olds that

I

> > see on a Sunday morning playing tennis- never mind anything else.

> >

> > Virtually no money left for private pathology- any that I can

> muster

> > would be that of the banks and further debt.

> >

> > NHS not wanting to do anything.

> >

> > Still awaiting appointment for gatroenterologist to look into

> > possible Haemochchromatosis- it has been months and this may not

> turn

> > out to be an issue.

> >

> > Emailed a top doctor in the US who offered some hope via email

and

> > detailed what may be wrong- but emails have stopped???

> >

> > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE????????

> >

> > I just phoned up my old endocrinologist to find out about a Bone

> > Density Scan I had several months ago as I was never given what

the

> > exact result was. I was just put on calcium tablets and had to

ask

> > why this was. My gp told me- Oh because you have osteopenia.

> >

> > Anyway I tried to get the exact result today and this is what

> > happened.

> >

> > I heard my old endo in the background talking to his secretary.

> They

> > were laughing/joking because I was asking the question. It was

> > obvious they thought that I was a-ok and had nothing wrong with

me.

> >

> > Anyway he cam on the phone and told me that my T score was – 2

and

> > that this was probably because we don't get much sunshine in the

UK

> > and he said I was at minor risk.

> >

> > So I looked into the matter

> >

> > http://www.nos.org.uk/PDF/PDXAstatement.pdf#search='BMD%

> > 20measurements'

> >

> > Extract

> > Osteoporosis has been defined as reduced bone mineral density ,

> with

> > architectural deterioration in bone structure by the World Health

> > Organisation (WHO). The level of bone mineral density that

defines

> > osteoporosis was set at a T score of 2.5 or below.

> >

> > So my osteopenia is close to being osteoporosis in my spine.

> >

> > Strangely I don't feel like having a laugh or a joke about it,

> > neither do I think it is no big deal and I don't think it is

> because

> > of a lack of sunshine.

> >

> > My old endos quotes or my summations

> >

> > Sumation I probably have osteopenia verging on osteoporosis at 30

> > because of a lack of sunshine.

> >

> > Direct quote `Estrogen doesn't exist in men'.

> >

> > Direct quote `testicles cannot change in size you must have just

> > thought this happened psychologically'.

> >

> > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE??????

> >

March 15, 2005

I know you've been trying to help me and I appreciate it Phil.

I think the funding issues are a big part of the problem. The other

issue is the vast incompetence and lack of knowledge that I have

found in the UK from my experiences and the experiences of many other

men in different parts of the UK.

When I had cancer at 17 and had a 10 and half hour operation to have

four tumors taken out and two thirds of my liver removed and then

have chemo I got through it because there was hope and I knew that if

I survived there was light and with it life at the end of the

tunnel/journey. The same was true when I had bladder cancer at 25.

But to have hope you need questions to be asked, you need things to

be moving forward, to strive to find answers and I am desperate

because I don't see that happening.

I have run out of steam as I say at least for the moment.

Perhaps you to would have run out of steam if you had of faced these

things? perhaps you wouldn't- may be I am more ill than you and that

is a reason? perhaps I am not....at the end of the day it doesn't

really matter does it.

I see a load of debt and an NHS not prepared or competent enough to

help. The doctors I have seen would blow you away with their

incompetence and their incomprehensible lack of logic. Whilst the US

may be far from perfect you do have the AACE guidelines that are a

good 6 years ahead of anything in the UK and you do have good quality

care if you are educated and prepared to look.

My last endocrinologist said estrogen doesn't exist in men!! I

laughed at him and he went off and found out it did exist in men-

because I found out through hospital records that he went off and

tested it in me that day but never told me. Another endocrinologist

I saw said- what is the point in testing estrogen, we can't do

anything about it.

When I complained about testicle shrinkage my old endo said that it

must have been psychological because that couldn't happen. He told

me today that I how osteopenia but am only half way towards

osteoporosis. I am -2 on the BMD scale with osteopenia between -1

and -2.5. Anyone can see he can't even add up. He said that my

osteopenia in my spine was probably due to a lack of sunshine in the

UK. I heard him laughing and joking at my expense in the background

because he forgot to put the mute on the phone.

I wouldn't trust him to be able to read something off a piece of

paper. And the crazy thing is this guy isn't the exception- this

kind of thing seems fairly common in the UK.

I even had one endocrinologist throw me out of his office when I was

polite, never raised my voice just disagreed with his bizarre

opinions- like there being no point in testing for anything other

than testosterone. He literally got very angry told me to get out of

his office and kept nodding his head towards the door.

I had to wait over four months for the results of an MRI, I had to

wait four month for heart tests I had....what more can I say?

I suppose I am just covering the same things over and over and it

does not help me- apart from to explain where I am coming from if you

understand me.

The saying goes 'where there is life there is hope', but may be it

should read the other way round,' where there is hope there is

life'. I have been able to go through almost anything when I have

had hope, my past shows that, it is getting through life with the

lack of it that I am finding difficult.

A nice guy is trying to help me in the UK- may be a decent

endocrinologist does exist somewhere- hard to see it from my

experience and all the experiences I have come across with other men

but- I suppose I have nothing to lose.

> > > These are two messages I just posted on the UK board.

> > >

> > > Two packets of testogel a day half a DIM tablet every second

day.

> > >

> > > Significant weight gain.

> > >

> > > Female distribution at the hips gynecomastia getting worse.

> > >

> > > Erections- Far far worse that before TRT-not possible even with

> > > viagra.

> > >

> > > Underarm hair almost all gone. Pubic hair now sparse.

> > >

> > > Feeling- exhausted, far far worse than before TRT. Sleeping

12hrs

> a

> > > day, if I play doubles tennis with 70yr olds for an hours on a

> > sunday

> > > morning I feel wrecked for about 4 days.

> > >

> > > Libido- Non existant. Far, far worse than before TRT, no sexual

> > > thoughts at all.

> > >

> > > Concentration- non existant.

> > >

> > > I would love to have the energy of some of the 70 year olds

that

> I

> > > see on a Sunday morning playing tennis- never mind anything

else.

> > >

> > > Virtually no money left for private pathology- any that I can

> > muster

> > > would be that of the banks and further debt.

> > >

> > > NHS not wanting to do anything.

> > >

> > > Still awaiting appointment for gatroenterologist to look into

> > > possible Haemochchromatosis- it has been months and this may

not

> > turn

> > > out to be an issue.

> > >

> > > Emailed a top doctor in the US who offered some hope via email

> and

> > > detailed what may be wrong- but emails have stopped???

> > >

> > > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE????????

> > >

> > > I just phoned up my old endocrinologist to find out about a

Bone

> > > Density Scan I had several months ago as I was never given what

> the

> > > exact result was. I was just put on calcium tablets and had to

> ask

> > > why this was. My gp told me- Oh because you have osteopenia.

> > >

> > > Anyway I tried to get the exact result today and this is what

> > > happened.

> > >

> > > I heard my old endo in the background talking to his

secretary.

> > They

> > > were laughing/joking because I was asking the question. It was

> > > obvious they thought that I was a-ok and had nothing wrong with

> me.

> > >

> > > Anyway he cam on the phone and told me that my T score was – 2

> and

> > > that this was probably because we don't get much sunshine in

the

> UK

> > > and he said I was at minor risk.

> > >

> > > So I looked into the matter

> > >

> > > http://www.nos.org.uk/PDF/PDXAstatement.pdf#search='BMD%

> > > 20measurements'

> > >

> > > Extract

> > > Osteoporosis has been defined as reduced bone mineral density ,

> > with

> > > architectural deterioration in bone structure by the World

Health

> > > Organisation (WHO). The level of bone mineral density that

> defines

> > > osteoporosis was set at a T score of 2.5 or below.

> > >

> > > So my osteopenia is close to being osteoporosis in my spine.

> > >

> > > Strangely I don't feel like having a laugh or a joke about it,

> > > neither do I think it is no big deal and I don't think it is

> > because

> > > of a lack of sunshine.

> > >

> > > My old endos quotes or my summations

> > >

> > > Sumation I probably have osteopenia verging on osteoporosis at

30

> > > because of a lack of sunshine.

> > >

> > > Direct quote `Estrogen doesn't exist in men'.

> > >

> > > Direct quote `testicles cannot change in size you must have

just

> > > thought this happened psychologically'.

> > >

> > > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE??????

> > >

March 16, 2005

Chis I pray things work out for you.

Phil

chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

I know you've been trying to help me and I appreciate it Phil.

I think the funding issues are a big part of the problem. The other

issue is the vast incompetence and lack of knowledge that I have

found in the UK from my experiences and the experiences of many other

men in different parts of the UK.

When I had cancer at 17 and had a 10 and half hour operation to have

four tumors taken out and two thirds of my liver removed and then

have chemo I got through it because there was hope and I knew that if

I survived there was light and with it life at the end of the

tunnel/journey. The same was true when I had bladder cancer at 25.

But to have hope you need questions to be asked, you need things to

be moving forward, to strive to find answers and I am desperate

because I don't see that happening.

I have run out of steam as I say at least for the moment.

Perhaps you to would have run out of steam if you had of faced these

things? perhaps you wouldn't- may be I am more ill than you and that

is a reason? perhaps I am not....at the end of the day it doesn't

really matter does it.

I see a load of debt and an NHS not prepared or competent enough to

help. The doctors I have seen would blow you away with their

incompetence and their incomprehensible lack of logic. Whilst the US

may be far from perfect you do have the AACE guidelines that are a

good 6 years ahead of anything in the UK and you do have good quality

care if you are educated and prepared to look.

My last endocrinologist said estrogen doesn't exist in men!! I

laughed at him and he went off and found out it did exist in men-

because I found out through hospital records that he went off and

tested it in me that day but never told me. Another endocrinologist

I saw said- what is the point in testing estrogen, we can't do

anything about it.

When I complained about testicle shrinkage my old endo said that it

must have been psychological because that couldn't happen. He told

me today that I how osteopenia but am only half way towards

osteoporosis. I am -2 on the BMD scale with osteopenia between -1

and -2.5. Anyone can see he can't even add up. He said that my

osteopenia in my spine was probably due to a lack of sunshine in the

UK. I heard him laughing and joking at my expense in the background

because he forgot to put the mute on the phone.

I wouldn't trust him to be able to read something off a piece of

paper. And the crazy thing is this guy isn't the exception- this

kind of thing seems fairly common in the UK.

I even had one endocrinologist throw me out of his office when I was

polite, never raised my voice just disagreed with his bizarre

opinions- like there being no point in testing for anything other

than testosterone. He literally got very angry told me to get out of

his office and kept nodding his head towards the door.

I had to wait over four months for the results of an MRI, I had to

wait four month for heart tests I had....what more can I say?

I suppose I am just covering the same things over and over and it

does not help me- apart from to explain where I am coming from if you

understand me.

The saying goes 'where there is life there is hope', but may be it

should read the other way round,' where there is hope there is

life'. I have been able to go through almost anything when I have

had hope, my past shows that, it is getting through life with the

lack of it that I am finding difficult.

A nice guy is trying to help me in the UK- may be a decent

endocrinologist does exist somewhere- hard to see it from my

experience and all the experiences I have come across with other men

but- I suppose I have nothing to lose.

> > > These are two messages I just posted on the UK board.

> > >

> > > Two packets of testogel a day half a DIM tablet every second

day.

> > >

> > > Significant weight gain.

> > >

> > > Female distribution at the hips gynecomastia getting worse.

> > >

> > > Erections- Far far worse that before TRT-not possible even with

> > > viagra.

> > >

> > > Underarm hair almost all gone. Pubic hair now sparse.

> > >

> > > Feeling- exhausted, far far worse than before TRT. Sleeping

12hrs

> a

> > > day, if I play doubles tennis with 70yr olds for an hours on a

> > sunday

> > > morning I feel wrecked for about 4 days.

> > >

> > > Libido- Non existant. Far, far worse than before TRT, no sexual

> > > thoughts at all.

> > >

> > > Concentration- non existant.

> > >

> > > I would love to have the energy of some of the 70 year olds

that

> I

> > > see on a Sunday morning playing tennis- never mind anything

else.

> > >

> > > Virtually no money left for private pathology- any that I can

> > muster

> > > would be that of the banks and further debt.

> > >

> > > NHS not wanting to do anything.

> > >

> > > Still awaiting appointment for gatroenterologist to look into

> > > possible Haemochchromatosis- it has been months and this may

not

> > turn

> > > out to be an issue.

> > >

> > > Emailed a top doctor in the US who offered some hope via email

> and

> > > detailed what may be wrong- but emails have stopped???

> > >

> > > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE????????

> > >

> > > I just phoned up my old endocrinologist to find out about a

Bone

> > > Density Scan I had several months ago as I was never given what

> the

> > > exact result was. I was just put on calcium tablets and had to

> ask

> > > why this was. My gp told me- Oh because you have osteopenia.

> > >

> > > Anyway I tried to get the exact result today and this is what

> > > happened.

> > >

> > > I heard my old endo in the background talking to his

secretary.

> > They

> > > were laughing/joking because I was asking the question. It was

> > > obvious they thought that I was a-ok and had nothing wrong with

> me.

> > >

> > > Anyway he cam on the phone and told me that my T score was – 2

> and

> > > that this was probably because we don't get much sunshine in

the

> UK

> > > and he said I was at minor risk.

> > >

> > > So I looked into the matter

> > >

> > > http://www.nos.org.uk/PDF/PDXAstatement.pdf#search='BMD%

> > > 20measurements'

> > >

> > > Extract

> > > Osteoporosis has been defined as reduced bone mineral density ,

> > with

> > > architectural deterioration in bone structure by the World

Health

> > > Organisation (WHO). The level of bone mineral density that

> defines

> > > osteoporosis was set at a T score of 2.5 or below.

> > >

> > > So my osteopenia is close to being osteoporosis in my spine.

> > >

> > > Strangely I don't feel like having a laugh or a joke about it,

> > > neither do I think it is no big deal and I don't think it is

> > because

> > > of a lack of sunshine.

> > >

> > > My old endos quotes or my summations

> > >

> > > Sumation I probably have osteopenia verging on osteoporosis at

30

> > > because of a lack of sunshine.

> > >

> > > Direct quote `Estrogen doesn't exist in men'.

> > >

> > > Direct quote `testicles cannot change in size you must have

just

> > > thought this happened psychologically'.

> > >

> > > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE??????

> > >

March 16, 2005

Yes Chemotherapy Drugs do mess you up, big time. The sad thing

is your doctors don't want you to know what they have done to

you...........

For 10 years they told me it was all in my head, yeah right.

Peripheral and Motor Neuropathy and low Testosterone levels and etc.

where all in my mind. I must have been dreaming it.

find a doctor who understands about the side effects of chemo

and is big enough to help you with TRT.

Yes I know he/she is a rare animal and not very many around.

I had to get away from my Oncologists and GP before it started to

happen.

I think my problems are related and should treated as such and not

with anti-depressants.

Later,

Magenta.

> > > These are two messages I just posted on the UK board.

> > >

> > > Two packets of testogel a day half a DIM tablet every second

day.

> > >

> > > Significant weight gain.

> > >

> > > Female distribution at the hips gynecomastia getting worse.

> > >

> > > Erections- Far far worse that before TRT-not possible even

with

> > > viagra.

> > >

> > > Underarm hair almost all gone. Pubic hair now sparse.

> > >

> > > Feeling- exhausted, far far worse than before TRT. Sleeping

12hrs

> a

> > > day, if I play doubles tennis with 70yr olds for an hours on a

> > sunday

> > > morning I feel wrecked for about 4 days.

> > >

> > > Libido- Non existant. Far, far worse than before TRT, no

sexual

> > > thoughts at all.

> > >

> > > Concentration- non existant.

> > >

> > > I would love to have the energy of some of the 70 year olds

that

> I

> > > see on a Sunday morning playing tennis- never mind anything

else.

> > >

> > > Virtually no money left for private pathology- any that I can

> > muster

> > > would be that of the banks and further debt.

> > >

> > > NHS not wanting to do anything.

> > >

> > > Still awaiting appointment for gatroenterologist to look into

> > > possible Haemochchromatosis- it has been months and this may

not

> > turn

> > > out to be an issue.

> > >

> > > Emailed a top doctor in the US who offered some hope via email

> and

> > > detailed what may be wrong- but emails have stopped???

> > >

> > > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE????????

> > >

> > > I just phoned up my old endocrinologist to find out about a

Bone

> > > Density Scan I had several months ago as I was never given

what

> the

> > > exact result was. I was just put on calcium tablets and had

to

> ask

> > > why this was. My gp told me- Oh because you have osteopenia.

> > >

> > > Anyway I tried to get the exact result today and this is what

> > > happened.

> > >

> > > I heard my old endo in the background talking to his

secretary.

> > They

> > > were laughing/joking because I was asking the question. It

was

> > > obvious they thought that I was a-ok and had nothing wrong

with

> me.

> > >

> > > Anyway he cam on the phone and told me that my T score was – 2

> and

> > > that this was probably because we don't get much sunshine in

the

> UK

> > > and he said I was at minor risk.

> > >

> > > So I looked into the matter

> > >

> > > http://www.nos.org.uk/PDF/PDXAstatement.pdf#search='BMD%

> > > 20measurements'

> > >

> > > Extract

> > > Osteoporosis has been defined as reduced bone mineral

density ,

> > with

> > > architectural deterioration in bone structure by the World

Health

> > > Organisation (WHO). The level of bone mineral density that

> defines

> > > osteoporosis was set at a T score of 2.5 or below.

> > >

> > > So my osteopenia is close to being osteoporosis in my spine.

> > >

> > > Strangely I don't feel like having a laugh or a joke about it,

> > > neither do I think it is no big deal and I don't think it is

> > because

> > > of a lack of sunshine.

> > >

> > > My old endos quotes or my summations

> > >

> > > Sumation I probably have osteopenia verging on osteoporosis at

30

> > > because of a lack of sunshine.

> > >

> > > Direct quote `Estrogen doesn't exist in men'.

> > >

> > > Direct quote `testicles cannot change in size you must have

just

> > > thought this happened psychologically'.

> > >

> > > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE??????

> > >

March 17, 2005

Thanks for your mail of support Magenta, i'm going to try and keep

plugging away with the help of others.

Regards,

Chris

> > > > These are two messages I just posted on the UK board.

> > > >

> > > > Two packets of testogel a day half a DIM tablet every second

> day.

> > > >

> > > > Significant weight gain.

> > > >

> > > > Female distribution at the hips gynecomastia getting worse.

> > > >

> > > > Erections- Far far worse that before TRT-not possible even

> with

> > > > viagra.

> > > >

> > > > Underarm hair almost all gone. Pubic hair now sparse.

> > > >

> > > > Feeling- exhausted, far far worse than before TRT. Sleeping

> 12hrs

> > a

> > > > day, if I play doubles tennis with 70yr olds for an hours on

a

> > > sunday

> > > > morning I feel wrecked for about 4 days.

> > > >

> > > > Libido- Non existant. Far, far worse than before TRT, no

> sexual

> > > > thoughts at all.

> > > >

> > > > Concentration- non existant.

> > > >

> > > > I would love to have the energy of some of the 70 year olds

> that

> > I

> > > > see on a Sunday morning playing tennis- never mind anything

> else.

> > > >

> > > > Virtually no money left for private pathology- any that I can

> > > muster

> > > > would be that of the banks and further debt.

> > > >

> > > > NHS not wanting to do anything.

> > > >

> > > > Still awaiting appointment for gatroenterologist to look into

> > > > possible Haemochchromatosis- it has been months and this may

> not

> > > turn

> > > > out to be an issue.

> > > >

> > > > Emailed a top doctor in the US who offered some hope via

email

> > and

> > > > detailed what may be wrong- but emails have stopped???

> > > >

> > > > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE????????

> > > >

> > > > I just phoned up my old endocrinologist to find out about a

> Bone

> > > > Density Scan I had several months ago as I was never given

> what

> > the

> > > > exact result was. I was just put on calcium tablets and had

> to

> > ask

> > > > why this was. My gp told me- Oh because you have

osteopenia.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway I tried to get the exact result today and this is what

> > > > happened.

> > > >

> > > > I heard my old endo in the background talking to his

> secretary.

> > > They

> > > > were laughing/joking because I was asking the question. It

> was

> > > > obvious they thought that I was a-ok and had nothing wrong

> with

> > me.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway he cam on the phone and told me that my T score was –

2

> > and

> > > > that this was probably because we don't get much sunshine in

> the

> > UK

> > > > and he said I was at minor risk.

> > > >

> > > > So I looked into the matter

> > > >

> > > > http://www.nos.org.uk/PDF/PDXAstatement.pdf#search='BMD%

> > > > 20measurements'

> > > >

> > > > Extract

> > > > Osteoporosis has been defined as reduced bone mineral

> density ,

> > > with

> > > > architectural deterioration in bone structure by the World

> Health

> > > > Organisation (WHO). The level of bone mineral density that

> > defines

> > > > osteoporosis was set at a T score of 2.5 or below.

> > > >

> > > > So my osteopenia is close to being osteoporosis in my spine.

> > > >

> > > > Strangely I don't feel like having a laugh or a joke about

it,

> > > > neither do I think it is no big deal and I don't think it is

> > > because

> > > > of a lack of sunshine.

> > > >

> > > > My old endos quotes or my summations

> > > >

> > > > Sumation I probably have osteopenia verging on osteoporosis

at

> 30

> > > > because of a lack of sunshine.

> > > >

> > > > Direct quote `Estrogen doesn't exist in men'.

> > > >

> > > > Direct quote `testicles cannot change in size you must have

> just

> > > > thought this happened psychologically'.

> > > >

> > > > DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO ANYMORE??????

> > > >

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What hope is there really- for me anyway.

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